2014 réponses à ce sujet

[TK514]

And why in any hell do you care about Gaspard?

 

 

Yes. That's why, ideally, both of them need to fall; Orlais is a threat to everyone else. If I must prop Celene up, so be it, but I will suffer that traitor poorly.

 

Oh, we're well beyond them putting their differences aside.  That ship sailed and sank long ago.  The best, and I mean best, a pro-Orlesian playthrough can hope for is a restoration of status-quo.  No matter who wins, they'll be too busy restoring order and rebuilding what was lost to have any real designs, internal or external.  Plus there's still that whole Veil Tear business going on, so they won't even really be able to focus on that until the world isn't ending.

[AresKeith]

@Xil, I don't think he necessarily deserves your ire...or blood magic.

 

No one really does, minus a few 

[Xilizhra]

@Xil, I don't think he necessarily deserves your ire...or blood magic.

Every last Orlesian who would oppose elven freedom with force of arms deserves it. I wouldn't be aiming to kill them all as my actual goal, but I wouldn't terribly mind if it was the only way to succeed.

[The Baconer]

@Xil, I don't think he necessarily deserves your ire...or blood magic.

 

Ire has nothing to do with it.

 

ORLAIS MUST BE READY FOR THE GRAND TRANSFIGURATION

[Mistic]

I also liked that the novel showed that there is a clear separation between Orlais and the Chantry that happens to be based there.  One of the initial concerns of the primary characters was that Orlais would need to interfere in the brewing Templar/Mage situation.  Celene was firm that it was a matter internal to the Chantry and that Orlais should stay out of it if at all necessary, and Gaspard worried that letting the Chantry deal with it themselves was giving them too much power, when it was the responsibility of the Throne to deal with internal threats.  In both cases, it was very clear that they considered the Chantry an entirely autonomous entity that might not have Orlais' best interests at heart.

 

It's interesting, but not unexpected. It's true that from a non-Orlesian viewpoint, the Chantry may appear very pro-Orlesian and do things in their favour. However, inside Orlais, the Chantry is an independent, influential and powerful actor that doesn't answer to the Empire. That would put anyone nervous, especially if their super-people, over whom the Empire has no authority in theory, start waging war in their lands.

 

The Holy Roman Empire, despite its name, had many, many problems with the Pope, and it wasn't unusual for the empire to support an Antipope because of it. Maybe we've reached that historical point in Orlais.

[Steelcan]

The HRE was neither Holy, nor Roman, nor an Empire

 

#overusedsayingsthatstillapply

[TK514]

Hmm, won't let me edit so I'll continue here.

 

The world ending is one of the reasons I don't think we'll be able to allow Briala to continue with her stated methods.  I suspect we will need a united Orlais to help with the Veil Tears, if for no other reason than to help lend the Inquisition the legitimacy and diplomatic clout it will require to do its job.  Her entire modus operandi is making sure a united Orlais doesn't happen until she gets what she wants.  Regardless of if you think her goals are worth pursuing or not, we won't have the luxury of the time it would take to realistically achieve them.

 

Changing topics for a moment, I keep returning to why the Eluvians were shut down.  It obviously wasn't out of concern the humans would use them against the elves, given how poorly humans deal with the eluvian alternate world.  If I were the elves, I'd do everything I could to get human armies in there.  Could it have been sabotage by the elven underclass?  Clearly things weren't quite as harmonious as we expected, when you have elven servants slitting uthenara dreamers' throats while they slumbered.  I know there are no possible answers at the moment, but I can't help but wonder.

[The Elder King]

I think that the area where the dalish will be present will be the one concept art that talked about an hidden forest area.

[The Baconer]

Changing topics for a moment, I keep returning to why the Eluvians were shut down.  It obviously wasn't out of concern the humans would use them against the elves, given how poorly humans deal with the eluvian alternate world.  If I were the elves, I'd do everything I could to get human armies in there.  Could it have been sabotage by the elven underclass?  Clearly things weren't quite as harmonious as we expected, when you have elven servants slitting uthenara dreamers' throats while they slumbered.  I know there are no possible answers at the moment, but I can't help but wonder.

 

Now there's a thought. Trick one of the opposing faction leaders by pretending to side with them and give them control of the eluvians. Tell them to bring their forces to bear in a surprise attack on Val Royeaux or some other place of significance, only to smash the mirrors on both ends while their forces are in transit through the pathways...

[Ryzaki]

I do hope we can weaken Orlais. I'm a Fereldan at heart ;_;

[Hellion Rex]

Changing topics for a moment, I keep returning to why the Eluvians were shut down.  It obviously wasn't out of concern the humans would use them against the elves, given how poorly humans deal with the eluvian alternate world.  If I were the elves, I'd do everything I could to get human armies in there.  Could it have been sabotage by the elven underclass?  Clearly things weren't quite as harmonious as we expected, when you have elven servants slitting uthenara dreamers' throats while they slumbered.  I know there are no possible answers at the moment, but I can't help but wonder.

I want to know too. Felassan noted that the mirror network looked like it had been shut down suddenly and without warning, which is what trapped those elves in there.

[Hellion Rex]

Maybe the eluvians were shut down to contain something, something that was travelling through the mirrors? Maybe something from the in between world?

[AresKeith]

I want to know too. Felassan noted that the mirror network looked like it had been shut down suddenly and without warning, which is what trapped those elves in there.

 

Semi-confirmed Rumor, those elves turned into the DA version of the Falmer

[Aimi]

It's interesting, but not unexpected. It's true that from a non-Orlesian viewpoint, the Chantry may appear very pro-Orlesian and do things in their favour. However, inside Orlais, the Chantry is an independent, influential and powerful actor that doesn't answer to the Empire. That would put anyone nervous, especially if their super-people, over whom the Empire has no authority in theory, start waging war in their lands.
 
The Holy Roman Empire, despite its name, had many, many problems with the Pope, and it wasn't unusual for the empire to support an Antipope because of it. Maybe we've reached that historical point in Orlais.

 
There are lots of historical analogues that fit the situation in Orlais only partially. There's a bit of the Investiture Controversy, the Babylonian Captivity, and even the early-modern struggle over Bourbon power in the first half of the seventeenth century. Gaspard de Chalons reminds me of no one more than Gaston d'Orléans.

But each of those situations, despite the similarities, also had fundamental differences that make comparisons difficult and arguably unprofitable. Thedas is Thedas, not Europe.
 

The HRE was neither Holy, nor Roman, nor an Empire
 
#overusedsayingsthatstillapply

No, it doesn't.

[TK514]

It's interesting, but not unexpected. It's true that from a non-Orlesian viewpoint, the Chantry may appear very pro-Orlesian and do things in their favour. However, inside Orlais, the Chantry is an independent, influential and powerful actor that doesn't answer to the Empire. That would put anyone nervous, especially if their super-people, over whom the Empire has no authority in theory, start waging war in their lands.

 

The Holy Roman Empire, despite its name, had many, many problems with the Pope, and it wasn't unusual for the empire to support an Antipope because of it. Maybe we've reached that historical point in Orlais.

 

 

My comment is really meant for the context of these boards.  We've had many many debates where one or both sides have treated the Chantry and Orlais as synonyms, with no real proof one way or the other.  Now we know.  While the Chantry and Orlais may have been much closer at other points in history, in the current age they have a wary yet cordial relationship, and sometimes mutually exclusive ideas on things like jurisdiction and even heresy.

[Hellion Rex]

Semi-confirmed Rumor, those elves turned into the DA version of the Falmer

Creators above, NO.

[Hellion Rex]

Every last Orlesian who would oppose elven freedom with force of arms deserves it. I wouldn't be aiming to kill them all as my actual goal, but I wouldn't terribly mind if it was the only way to succeed.

Fine, Xil. You got a Mana Clash coming your way then.

[Steelcan]

Do I need to go into a diatribe about why a loose confederation of frequently warring states with no central figure with any authority isn't an empire?  Or why the said nation that had a fondness with clashing with the Papacy over the Right of Investiture and subsequently made Anti-Popes isn't Holy?  How about why the German and north Italian states that make it up having no real claim to being a continuation of the Roman Empire when the Eastern Roman Empire still exists?

[AresKeith]

Creators above, NO.

 

And as for the other thing beyond the Mirrors are the DA version of a toned down yuuzhan vong

[LobselVith8]

The world ending is one of the reasons I don't think we'll be able to allow Briala to continue with her stated methods.  I suspect we will need a united Orlais to help with the Veil Tears, if for no other reason than to help lend the Inquisition the legitimacy and diplomatic clout it will require to do its job.  Her entire modus operandi is making sure a united Orlais doesn't happen until she gets what she wants.  Regardless of if you think her goals are worth pursuing or not, we won't have the luxury of the time it would take to realistically achieve them.

 

I don't even see the point of providing an elven Inquisitor if the player is going to be restricted to opposing the elves and siding with either Celene or Gaspard. It would be no different than providing the option to play as a mage, and then limiting the player into helping restore the status quo of the Chantry controlled Circles. That route holds no interest for me. It would also be another example of marginalizing the elven perspective to focus exclusively on the human point of view, which I could care less for at this point.

 

Honestly, I wouldn't even bother with Inquisition if it ended up being how you described.

 

Changing topics for a moment, I keep returning to why the Eluvians were shut down.  It obviously wasn't out of concern the humans would use them against the elves, given how poorly humans deal with the eluvian alternate world.  If I were the elves, I'd do everything I could to get human armies in there.  Could it have been sabotage by the elven underclass?  Clearly things weren't quite as harmonious as we expected, when you have elven servants slitting uthenara dreamers' throats while they slumbered.  I know there are no possible answers at the moment, but I can't help but wonder.

 

Perhaps that happened. I always wondered if the quickening may have played a role, if elven lore was accurate about that aspect. I suppose we will never know at this point.

[Hellion Rex]

And as for the other thing beyond the Mirrors are the DA version of a toned down yuuzhan vong

Ares...right now. Now we have to worry about a creature entirely immune to magic...except lightning magic. Lord knows why, but lightning magic will still hurt them.

[Mistic]

Maybe the eluvians were shut down to contain something, something that was travelling through the mirrors? Maybe something from the in between world?

 

The prospect of a lovecraftian horror in a separate dimension contained only by the eluvians sounds both plausible and creepy.

 

 
There are lots of historical analogues that fit the situation in Orlais only partially. There's a bit of the Investiture Controversy, the Babylonian Captivity, and even the early-modern struggle over Bourbon power in the first half of the seventeenth century. Gaspard de Chalons reminds me of no one more than Gaston d'Orléans.

But each of those situations, despite the similarities, also had fundamental differences that make comparisons difficult and arguably unprofitable. Thedas is Thedas, not Europe.

 

Still, creators don't work in a vacuum. Yes, Thedas is not Europe. Thedas is a fictional medieval fantasy world created by people who know of European history, so any knowledge of history could be insightful. But I don't expect Bioware to know every situation from the past, so I think the common places are a good starting point

 

My comment is really meant for the context of these boards.  We've had many many debates where one or both sides have treated the Chantry and Orlais as synonyms, with no real proof one way or the other.  Now we know.  While the Chantry and Orlais may have been much closer at other points in history, in the current age they have a wary yet cordial relationship, and sometimes mutually exclusive ideas on things like jurisdiction and even heresy.

 

Mm, didn't think of that. I want some gray and difficult choices. Glad Gaspard and Celene are going to provide them.

[Hellion Rex]

I always wondered if the quickening may have played a role, if elven lore was accurate about that aspect. I suppose we will never know at this point.

If the quickening was a real thing, I wonder if it might have disrupted old elven magic, shutting down the eluvian network.

[AresKeith]

Ares...right now. Now we have to worry about a creature entirely immune to magic...except lightning magic. Lord knows why, but lightning magic will still hurt them.

 

That's why I said toned down lol

[TK514]

Now there's a thought. Trick one of the opposing faction leaders by pretending to side with them and give them control of the eluvians. Tell them to bring their forces to bear in a surprise attack on Val Royeaux or some other place of significance, only to smash the mirrors on both ends while their forces are in transit through the pathways...

 

That's certainly an idea.  I really wonder why the elves of Arlathan didn't put one of their own armies in there, draw in a human army, and crush it.  It would take a heroic effort on the part of any human to stand up to an elf in the eluvian construct.  The elves appear to be constantly refreshed by being there, while the humans suffer what I can only think of as exhaustion and sensory overload.  Heck, even just using it as a staging area to rest and recuperate in.  I really wonder what Tevinter must have had to do to negate the overwhelming advantage the eluvians gave the elves.  It was bad enough when I thought they were just teleporters.  Knowing what they actually are makes the conflict seem ever more one sided.