138 réponses à ce sujet

[chaosapiant]

The thing that gets me is that the Reapers wipe out galactic life at the "pinnacle" of their existence. How do the reapers know what that pinnacle is? What are they looking for? Left alone, all species would continue to grow and evolve; there is no true "pinnacle."

[kaff33nd]

Very good point! However, I believe that the mass relays themselves, once activated are meant to have the keepers send a signal to the Reapers? It does seem, though, that the Reapers are after a particular physiology. How many Turian/Asari/Volus/Quarian/Elcor husks have you seen? The only husks are human. The Protheans were also of the same basic physiology - as seen with Vigil. Could it be that the Collectors are genetically modified/synthetically 'evolved' Protheans? Or at least Prothean DNA?

[Dethateer]

Theramond wrote...



I think "collector" is almost synonymous with the word "reaper." They both essentially mean the same thing. Anyways, perhaps they need lifeforms as they are a source of energy, like the machines in the Matrix.

Hm, well, a collector is someone who gathers stuff to examine and/or put on a shelf to look pretty... A reaper is a harvester of resources (i.e. wheat, for example) to be processed for use in whatever. They're not quite the same thing.



And while the second point might be true for the Reapers (doubt it, though, organic species have, as pointed out by Sovereign, excessively short lifespans), the Collectors wouldn't ask for things like "a dozen left-handed Quarians" if they needed organic batteries.



Also, kaff, I'm willing to bet something extremely lame like "the Protheans influenced the development the mankind" or "lived on through humanity" will show up in ME3.



By the way, 50.000 years ago, weren't the Asari at our current level of tech, if not higher? It seems odd that the Reapers missed them, the Turians, Volus, Krogan, Hanar and early humans despite slaughtering the Prothean outposts near those systems (see: the outpost on Mars).

[kaff33nd]

Thanks for the input Dethateer. Unfortunately, while you did an admirable job correcting us, you forgot to include anything in the form of on-topic suggestions. Could you expand on what you've said please?

[Homebound]

Theramond wrote...
 Anyways, perhaps they need lifeforms as they are a source of energy, like the machines in the Matrix.

No...

NOO....:o

No way!

That might actually be it!

[Dethateer]

Well, my best guess is that they wait for civilizations to rise just beneath the point of developing weapons capable of fighting the Reapers off, and then gather up all the possible technology to prevent future species from advancing too quickly, then discard/disassemble the useless things, using the few interesting ones to upgrade themselves. Basically waiting for someone else to do their research for them.

[Madman17]

Dethateer wrote...

Well, my best guess is that they wait for civilizations to rise just beneath the point of developing weapons capable of fighting the Reapers off, and then gather up all the possible technology to prevent future species from advancing too quickly, then discard/disassemble the useless things, using the few interesting ones to upgrade themselves. Basically waiting for someone else to do their research for them.

Thats a sound reason i think, i like the thught of them upgrading themselves with the usefull parts, it could explain their size, millions ofyears of upgrading.

[Theramond]

Dethateer wrote...


And while the second point might be true for the Reapers (doubt it, though, organic species have, as pointed out by Sovereign, excessively short lifespans), the Collectors wouldn't ask for things like "a dozen left-handed Quarians" if they needed organic batteries.

I doubt it too. It would be extremely cliche, but who knows.

[kaff33nd]

Well, having just spent all night watching vids I can say with some confidence that the Collectors are doing genetic research on 'some' control groups (a dozen left-handed Quarians), but the actual abductees are Humans in the many thousands. I can also confirm that the "seeker swarms" that paralize their victims (Humans) are indeed "insect-like machines". Quotes are intentional.

[vaesapiens]

My guess would be: the Reapers were the first organic civilisation to come, and they just want to be the only one too. And maybe every civilisation that they destroyed had a new technology that they didn't knew -> thus growing stronger from harvesting. As someone told "Knowledge is an ocean, and we have only one drop of it" or something like that.

[Dethateer]

That's most likely it, though Sovereign's utter hatred towards organic species leads me to think that they were actually the crowning achievement of the first civilization: a species of eternal, self-sustaining, constantly evolving cuttlefi- err... sapient machines of near-infinite processing capacity.

[Myrmedus]

I can't say if they were actually organic once but I'd be surprised if they still are judging by Sovereign's utter disdain towards organics. Also the actual bug/squid-like design is simply customary for alot of sentient machine designs, just take a look at the Matrix as an example.



Having said that a post earlier in the thread spoke of "Collector" and "Reaper" being virtually synonymous words and they really are...as to how they relate it's hard to say. Technically the words suggest the Reapers are slaves because they do the reaping for the Collectors, but we'll have to see.



All I think is that something big happened with the Reapers on a universal scale. Either; they found that the model of intelligent organic life was unsustainable because it's endlessly multiplying - "like a virus! *puts on shades*"; or they had a run in with organic life at some point that led to believe we had to be kept at bay for much the same reasons as the latter point. Their behaviour does not suggest they want to destroy organic life, otherwise they would simply render worlds uninhabitable after their destruction cycle. The fact they 'reset' organic life's advancement suggests they're trying to keep it at a certain point because beyond that they believe it will get out of control - like Sovereign says, they're imposing order on the chaos of organic evolution. I actually think it's fear that motivates them.

[Veex]

As Sovereign told me on Virmire, their motivations are beyond anything my fleshy body can comprehend. They have no beginning, they have no end, they are infinite. Perhaps the scope of this never ending cycle simply can't be known to us, and trying to shape and fit the mystery into a human consciousness is futile.

[Madman17]

I think its fair to say this discussion will be very diffrent by the end of ME2 and well lets be honest this is bioware, we probably wont get the answer untill ME3 if at all.

[Hyper Cutter]

chaosapiant wrote...

The thing that gets me is that the Reapers wipe out galactic life at the "pinnacle" of their existence. How do the reapers know what that pinnacle is? What are they looking for? Left alone, all species would continue to grow and evolve; there is no true "pinnacle."

I'd suspect that it's the point where the species is advanced enough to be worth harvesting, but not yet dangerous enough to be a serious threat to them. I wonder if that's why they steer their victims towards a specific technological path, because a previous species (maybe even their very first victim) used technology unfamiliar to them and put up a serious (if ultimately unsuccessful) fight.

Dethateer wrote...

Also, kaff, I'm willing to bet
something extremely lame like "the Protheans influenced the development
the mankind" or "lived on through humanity" will show up in ME3.

I doubt it was just humanity, though. Don't forget what the Hanar claim the Protheans did for them...

Keep in mind, the Protheans seem to have been the only species around in their cycle. This one, we have close to a dozen, or more. That's strange, and possibly significant.

[kaff33nd]

How about this: And on the eigth day God created the Reapers?

Try to picture the whole thing in terms of fitness landscapes http://en.wikipedia....tness_landscape

Suppose an organic species created the Reapers v1.0 as a means to shape their own evolution through introducing a new predator? The survival rate of any species becomes much lower, thus the genetic fitness of said species is much stronger. Like a physical fitness exam, or selection for a top-ranking sports team. The higher the bar is raised, and the harder it is to survive, the stronger the resulting mutation/s.

I'm speaking of the Reapers here as a kind of artificial immunoglobin where organic species are the 'virus'. Making the body (organic life) stronger as a result.

[Dethateer]

And then the Reapers turned out to be far more efficient than they wanted? That's one of the best theories I've heard so far, but why would they harvest if all they would want would be to destroy the weak?

[A. Cameron]

What I wanna know, is why did BioWare choose a giant Cuttlefish-Bug as the pinnacle of inorganic evolution?

[Dethateer]

Because, as pointed out earlier by someone (kaff, I think), the Cthulhu mythos influenced ME's story heavily. See: unimaginable terror from beyond the depths of space, its goals and origins unfathomable to the minds of mortals.

[Swe_Racoon]

Veex wrote...

As Sovereign told me on Virmire, their motivations are beyond anything my fleshy body can comprehend. They have no beginning, they have no end, they are infinite. Perhaps the scope of this never ending cycle simply can't be known to us, and trying to shape and fit the mystery into a human consciousness is futile.

Which ties back into the Cthulhu Mythos, horrors to great for mankind to comprehend was something Lovercraft used quite alot. The Color From Outer Space springs to mind.

Anyhow, on the subject at hand. I pretty much like the idea that we simply cannot comprehend why the Reapers do it. They're sentient machines, so they might not even think the same way we do. It adds to the whole alien-horror-from-beyond feeling for me 

EDIT: Ninja'd!

Modifié par Swe_Racoon, 24 janvier 2010 - 10:30 .

[A. Cameron]

I was just pointing out the fact that it's a cuttlefish-bug...with lasers.

[Swe_Racoon]

It is, though it reminds me more of Cthulhu than cuttlefish. As has been said, the ME story borrows quite some from the Cthulhu Mythos.

[Dethateer]

What amazes me moar is that the lasers were actually well-done, as giant cutting tools with invisible beams instead of insta-kill monster projectile weapons.
Also, cuttlefish are cool. And alien enough to qualify as scary for some people.
[edit]I also hope the Reapers' motives don't remain hidden forever, since unlike Lovecraft's beings, they are defeatable and at least partially understandable.

Modifié par Dethateer, 24 janvier 2010 - 10:38 .

[zuluthrone]

I love this discussion and all of the comments so far.



although i severely doubt this is the case, i'd be amazed if somehow the reapers and the thorian are connected at their origin, perhaps each the product of massive research in the mechanical and the organic from some origin species.



What's also worth mentioning is that while the majority of the council races have similar physiologies (which may lead to some kind of common origin/genetic seeding distant planets plot) the ancient beings we know of do resemble each other somewhat. There appears to be a rivalry between bipedal, short lived brings and eternal, mind-controlling, tentacled ones. Perhaps they go back to an initial rivalry from long ago, and we are the product of rapid, evolutionary catch up from the massive reaping of the galaxy.



maybe the two ancient ones are research projects of an original proto-human form that eventually took control themselves. perhaps it's exactly the opposite.



And I love the cthulu analogy.

[A. Cameron]

On a more serious note, who created the cuttlefish bugs, and why do they appear in-game in various sizes?