138 réponses à ce sujet

[kaff33nd]

Two points I'd like to make here:

On Time Travel - It's possible that the Reapers 'sleep' close to a black hole where the closer they get to it, the slower time travels (for them), reducing the apparent time it would take to develop their tech, and explaining their longevity.



Dethateer - I'm hesitant to mention this, but there's a YouTube channel I've been watching which has about 70+ videos of actual ME2 gameplay - about 6 - 8 hours worth in fact, so I know for sure about the Collectors, Husks and the Spikes. Don't worry thogh, I haven't divulged anything apart from that (and I won't).

[Dethateer]

Err, getting close to a black hole... well, it's an extremely bad idea. Until I get my physics teacher to explain exactly how time would be affected by the proximity of one, I'm not touching that (the time-slowing thing), but chances are that the Reapers wouldn't be able to get out if they go there. We're talking about gravity so massive not even light can escape it, and light doesn't even have mass, let alone gigantic space cuttlefish.

Modifié par Dethateer, 24 janvier 2010 - 03:19 .

[kaff33nd]

It's Einstein's General Theory of Relativity.
EDIT: Also, I believe that as long as they didn't cross the black hole's Event Horizon they could stay there indefinately. But I'm no physicist.

Modifié par kaff33nd, 24 janvier 2010 - 03:33 .

[Dethateer]

Well, yes it is, but clarification from someone who knows what they're talking about is always good.

But if they don't cross the event horizon, then time won't be distorted for them, now, would it?

[-D-C-D-]

I wonder if they collect and harvest people in order to turn them into reapers, but these people need to be at a certain point in evolution before they are genetically "capable" of making the transformation e.g. husks. Think of it like a more complicated husk.



So every 50,000 years, or whatever it is, they come and harvest us, simply to continue to increase their numbers. No idea what it would be for, but that's my theory.



Now the collectors? I'm not sure. I wonder if they're working WITH the reapers, and giving them organics in order to "appease" them, and maybe prevent their own extinction by the reapers. So they help them by providing organics, in exchange for their own survival? Although Saren tried the same, and would have likely failed.



Or I wonder if the collectors are in fact attempting to put an end to the reapers in their own way, by using organics in a similar way to build their own custom reaper equivalents? Maybe the collectors aren't "evil," but more incredibly extreme. That would explain the big "husk machines" that Shepard was fighting in the gameplay videos, and also why the collectors make specific demands i.e. "200 left-handed Asari please." Perhaps the latter would be used to make the "left arm" of ther own custom machine?



Just a thought.

[Dethateer]

Husks are mindless, the Reapers... not so much. Also, indoctrination would fry the minds of the organics long before they are turned into Reapers, and besides, Vigil confirmed that the ones taken were left to starve/freeze/fry/drown/whatever to death.



Though one thing that never crossed my mind until I read your post is that each Reaper's mind could be formed from the collective minds of x million members of a certain species ("We are each a nation.").

[izariluneh]

Organics wanted to make super advanced IA machines to put them at their service.. that is, give soul to non organic structures or machines.
It is possible that sometime some kind of IA machine got out of control and started the opposite procces as revenge.. that is give "machines" to organics steal soul  and put them at their service. Cyborgs? starships?

Modifié par izariluneh, 24 janvier 2010 - 04:54 .

[-D-C-D-]

Dethateer wrote...

Husks are mindless, the Reapers... not so much. Also, indoctrination would fry the minds of the organics long before they are turned into Reapers, and besides, Vigil confirmed that the ones taken were left to starve/freeze/fry/drown/whatever to death.

Though one thing that never crossed my mind until I read your post is that each Reaper's mind could be formed from the collective minds of x million members of a certain species ("We are each a nation.").

Yeah! The "we are each a nation" quote actually was almost the main basis for my idea. Maybe they look for specific types of people or species in order to make certain types of Reaper. It's the first possibility, to me at least, which actually makes the "We are each a nation..." comment make sense.

[kaff33nd]

@-D-C-D- I like this idea very much... Very much indeed!

What if Husks are like Lego blocks - all making something bigger. The whole is greater than the sum of its parts. OMG how did this escape me before? I'm supposed to be something of an expert when it comes to Complex Adaptive Systems. *palm slap to face



http://www.trojanmic...tivesystems.htm

http://howardbloom.n...r/excerpt1.html

[Homebound]

kaff33nd wrote...

@-D-C-D- I like this idea very much... Very much indeed!
What if Husks are like Lego blocks - all making something bigger. The whole is greater than the sum of its parts. OMG how did this escape me before? I'm supposed to be something of an expert when it comes to Complex Adaptive Systems. *palm slap to face

http://www.trojanmic...tivesystems.htm
http://howardbloom.n...r/excerpt1.html

I love Lego.  But if you want to build a skyscraper, why use Lego pieces instead of say, cinderblocks?

[Dethateer]

Lego blocks are more versatile? *ahem*

If a Lego part is a mind, what would a cinderblock represent?

[kaff33nd]

Because you can't make really small things with cinderblocks.
EDIT: @Dethateer A very large and clumsy imitation of a Lego block

Modifié par kaff33nd, 24 janvier 2010 - 05:35 .

[-D-C-D-]

Haha I get you with the lego. It kinda makes sense. On their own, husks are functional, but combine them and you get something which is not only of greater power, but also of greater intelligence. Since we know know that it is indeed possible to combine multiple husks, who's to say that it stops at a certain amount? If 30 can make the big flying insect machine thing, what would entire an galaxy's worth create? Could very well be Reapers. Their purpose would either be to simply continue to expand, or perhaps create numbers for something much bigger.



Not to mention the fact that Reapers also seem to follow this insect "theme," with the abdomen/body shape etc.



Oh, and the Geth have shown that in numbers, machine sentience is far greater. Maybe in the Mass Effect universe, in order for machines to have complete sentience, they need to be comprised of multiple entities? That again comes back to my "We are each a nation..." idea. The reapers are only what they are because so many beings comprise them.



It's the Collectors' purpose which really baffles me though. Their advanced technology indicates that they've either been allowed to develop FAR longer than any of the other races, or that they're in some kind of deal with the Reapers, as I suggested earlier. Surely, as they are an organic race, the Reapers would be compelled to "reap" them as well? Or maybe even the Reapers lie in terror of the dreaded OMEGA 4 RELAY. Haha.



I do wonder though if, in a way, the Collectors are essentially the "Anti-Reapers." They could well be very "end justifies the means" based, and are in fact trying to HELP organics by creating their own organic-machine army.



Who knows though.

[Homebound]

Thats what I mean by why use lego pieces for a skyscraper.



WHY harvest husks to create a Reaper ship, if you could make the same or even more if you stripmined a bunch of planets? I thought the same thing with the husks, but someone pointed this out and it changed my mind.

[Dethateer]

Cuttlefish =/= insect.
Also, the Geth were designed like that, and... I got nothing on the Collectors, I'm not basing anything on the damned spoiler storm.
[edit]
Mike, no one said anything about Husks being harvested, that would not make any sense whatsoever. We meant organic beings, not Husks. As in, their minds fused to make a new Reaper mind, the other resources would obviously be gained from the resource harvesting Vigil described.
My bad.

Modifié par Dethateer, 24 janvier 2010 - 06:01 .

[Homebound]

Dethateer wrote...

Cuttlefish =/= insect.
Also, the Geth were designed like that, and... I got nothing on the Collectors, I'm not basing anything on the damned spoiler storm.
[edit]
Mike, no one said anything about Husks being harvested, that would not make any sense whatsoever. We meant organic beings, not Husks.

Read D-C-D above my last post.

[-D-C-D-]

Just_mike wrote...

Thats what I mean by why use lego pieces for a skyscraper.

WHY harvest husks to create a Reaper ship, if you could make the same or even more if you stripmined a bunch of planets? I thought the same thing with the husks, but someone pointed this out and it changed my mind.

It's a good point, but my theory is that organic beings might have certain properties that raw materials don't i.e. sentience. Could well be needed to build a working Reaper. Again though, this is all purely speculative.

...and yeah, I agree with you on not basing anything on the spoilers. Fortunately I only got caught out by the moron who simply quoted ME:Retribution. After that I just avoided any and all large text boxes and the folk who had been pointed out as spoilers by us, the good guys

I swear though, most eventful night of the internet I've ever witnessed. Never before has a forum made my heart pound like that! It was like a siege or something.

p.s Spoiler Storm-Best. Label. Ever.

[-D-C-D-]

Sorry boys, I meant organics, not husks.

[Dethateer]

Wait, that spoiler wasn't from the game?

[kaff33nd]

Okay I'm going to attemp to put all of this (my theory at least) into something we can chew at once, rather than a platter of food we pick from.

I believe the Reapers are (or could be) a completely different kind of entity - neither machine nor organism. Suppose they 'evolved' from a cosmic idea, and exist ONLY because organic life ALSO evolved. Therefore the Reapers aren't created but co-evolved. They don't 'sleep' in deep space at all. They don't exist at all, UNTIL life evolves. Did the planet Pluto exist before we started looking out into space? Or did we create it out of sheer desire for it to exist? Did God exist before we started believing in Him? Perhaps all life - organic AND synthetic - are merely a figment of God's imagination.

What I think (however it plays out) is that the Reapers 'emerge' every time a species develops a certain level of technical sophistication and 'harvests' that species as a way to keeping the cycle of life in perpetuality. They are not 'evil', nor do they want anything. They simply are.

[-D-C-D-]

Nope, seems we got lucky man. I refer you to the Mass Effect: Retribution synopsis:



http://masseffect.bi...m/market/books/

[kaff33nd]

In other words, Reapers are US - merely evolved.

[Dethateer]

Thank Mjolner for that.

Kaff, I'm not one to trust the Observer Theory too much... if everything exists (also, I C WUT U DID THAR) only because we see it, what about before any humans were around?

[Homebound]

Just_mike wrote...

EDIT: CTHULHU FHTAGN!

[-D-C-D-]

kaff33nd wrote...

Okay I'm going to attemp to put all of this (my theory at least) into something we can chew at once, rather than a platter of food we pick from.
I believe the Reapers are (or could be) a completely different kind of entity - neither machine nor organism. Suppose they 'evolved' from a cosmic idea, and exist ONLY because organic life ALSO evolved. Therefore the Reapers aren't created but co-evolved. They don't 'sleep' in deep space at all. They don't exist at all, UNTIL life evolves. Did the planet Pluto exist before we started looking out into space? Or did we create it out of sheer desire for it to exist? Did God exist before we started believing in Him? Perhaps all life - organic AND synthetic - are merely a figment of God's imagination.
What I think (however it plays out) is that the Reapers 'emerge' every time a species develops a certain level of technical sophistication and 'harvests' that species as a way to keeping the cycle of life in perpetuality. They are not 'evil', nor do they want anything. They simply are.

So essentially you're saying that they're like devils, or at the very least entities amongst the sheer scale and "higher power" of Fate/God/insert here.? I like that idea, very philosophical. It would certainly be an interesting twist for them to be discovered as something which is actually above even the universe.

The only thing that makes me wonder about that though, is the sheer physiciality of the Reapers' plans. I mean, they NEED the Citadel Relay to work, and a mere mortal race in the Protheans were actually able to physically put a spanner in the works, essentially. They are, at the end of the day, simply machines. Unimaginably powerful machines of course, but machines nonetheless.

Oh, and Vigil (although he's not a 100% reliable source, he's the best I've got) claims that Sovereign is the "Vanguard" for the Reapers, so essentially he is in fact omnipresent, as opposed to coming into existence only when new societies are at their peak.

I do like your idea though.