OK, we don't really disagree on the numbers.
But I'm with KaiserShep. I don't see a prequel as being any less risky.
ho w would it be? the ending was a disaster. why would they make another 3 games that led to the same disaster. prequels can only be less risky when what they lead up to is amazing
yes, but those people it initially 'ticks off', is due to the fact that it's taking place 'before' other events we've experienced.
Whereas the alternative is ticking off (or atleast contradicting) every person who did not pick the one ending selected by BW as the 'canon' choice.
You see the difference, yes? One is based on preconceptions, the other is literally railroading on the part of the developer. I know you have a distaste for "prequels", Kaiser. I don't really define a prequel as others do. But everybody has their perspective. See, I think there's some interesting stories left to tell in the Star Wars Expanded Universe before the Empire is even defeated in RotJ. Hell, I think as long as there's millions of people in a galaxy, then there's millions of stories to be told. Regardless of the state the galaxy is in.
I don't write off the fantastic journey that is Saving Private Ryan because I know that exactly 4 years after the events of the film that Hitler commits suicide and we vaporize a quarter million people over in Asia. No, to me....those are still their own stories.
Idk....if the next Mass Effect becomes an unforgettable individual/companion/group journey taking place 'before' the events of ME3 (or sh*t, why not ME1?).....I'm not gonna look at it and be like "Oh, but what about the Reapers?", and judge everything by that speculation alone. Whatever type of story it attempts to tell, I'll judge it on its own merits.
Let's face it. Fans are going to be upset regardless. Mass Effect is a minefield of an IP. Also, you can't discount the people who simply don't like how the trilogy ended. Setting it in the future allows the franchise to move on from that, but setting it in the past and it's tied inextricably to it, regardless of what the story is about.
The reason I don't really give much consideration into comparisons between this hypothetical game and stories like Saving Private Ryan or The Last Samurai is because it gives no consideration to the distinction between being a passive observer or an active participant. Do I find them to be interesting stories? Sure. I think Saving Private Ryan is a great movie (The Last Samurai is meh imo). But, do I want to actually play the ME equivalent of Captain Miller or Nathan Algren in a choice-based video game? F*ck no. Reading or watching a story in a book, movie or TV show is just not the same thing as playing a choose-your-own-adventure game. As for Star Wars, I really can't take any of it seriously, because the prequels, in my opinion, destroyed the entire franchise in pretty surprising ways.
I just want to point out the irrelevance of Hitler and Japan in Saving Private Ryan. Neither mattered, because neither contributed to its narrative. Hitler could have already been dead and Japan could have been nuked at that point and I would not have cared. The movie is not about the entire war; it's simply about rescuing one man who lost all of his brothers. On that end, the story was told and resolved and we saw him grow old in the present.
Another small concern I have is one of plotting. A small scale plot on the level that I think you're getting at here needs to be intricate and engrossing enough to keep the player invested for more than 20 hours of gameplay, lest it becomes another game of glorified side missions, as you've said Mass Effect 2 ended up being. Do I believe that the Mass Effect team is up to such a challenge? My answer is no. BioWare has a penchant for making big scale stories with a very simple premise, and everything else is a side plot that may be resolved in a couple of short missions that amount to maybe an hour or so of gameplay. I simply have no faith that they can create a Mass Effect game that can sustain itself on a small personal story in a space epic backdrop. I don't want another galaxy-consuming super threat that insidiously rants about how all will bow before it and every world will darken in its shadow, but I don't believe that they can pull off its polar opposite in this setting either.
Perhaps you wouldn't say to yourself "But what about the Reapers?", but plenty of other people would. I would be doing the same thing. Any game set in the past in ME is automatically tied to it. It doesn't matter what it's about; it will always be there.
Thinking about it, I think the biggest problem is the intended goal with this story: avoiding fan backlash rather than focusing on a point of interest in the timeline. The story you're suggesting is nothing but the former. It's also a trap, because a story that's vague enough in details to take place at any time means that it's just obscure dicking about in the galaxy, and anything of note would have to be fixed in its outcome. Do you know what avoids fan backlash the most? Ceasing all development of Mass Effect and moving on to something else.
Wouldn't you just as well be able to judge a story set in the future on its own merits, regardless of whether or not it contradicts the choices of certain players?
I'm glad all of this stuff has no doubt long since been decided by this point.
They're not going to do a small scale story. Thankfully, one thing developers are consistently better at than fans is pushing forward. Breaking new ground. And while I have difficultly imaging a conflict as deadly as the Reapers, I can see something on the same scale while not as dangerous.
I haven't played the new edition, so I'll let others do the recommending. In relevant part, and non-spoilery, your PC is kidnapped in the opening by a wizard who wants to use your PC's power for his own ends. There's a jailbreak, of course, and the wizard and one of your companions are gone. To get at him you need cash, and lots of it. The bulk of the game is various sidequests to raise cash, plus a couple of mandatory missions that have nothing to do with the wizard. When you've done enough of these (or all of them if you feel like it) you head after him, then a thing happens, and another thing happens, and he gets away again. So you chase him some more through a couple more mandatory unrelated missions. Then there's an opportunity to do more of the side missions. Then there are some more mandatory missions leading to the final conflict.
So it's basically ME2 in that most of what you're doing has nothing to do with the wizard. Even more disconnected since at least ME2 recruitment and LMs relate to the endgame, though of course the side missions give loot and experience in the usual way.
By "mandatory quests that have nothing to do with the wizard" including the whole Shadow Thieves vs assasin's guild stuff? 'Cause that ties directly to the wizard.
The Underdark? That's fixing what he broke too.
Or are you just exagerating? 
I'm glad all of this stuff has no doubt long since been decided by this point.
They're not going to do a small scale story. Thankfully, one thing developers are consistently better at than fans is pushing forward. Breaking new ground. And while I have difficultly imaging a conflict as deadly as the Reapers, I can see something on the same scale while not as dangerous.
How is doing a smaller scale story a step back? How are developers better at something than fans on deciding what's good or not? They aren't going to break new ground. Nor does that necessarily mean that it's a good thing. There's no need to make the stakes the same or raise them. It would detract from the universe, even more than it already has to have another conveniently larger than life galactic scale threat.
You don't know all David. And you certainly don't know better than everybody else. As far as most people look at you, you're a source of semi-comedic irritation, nothing more.
Regarding ending data, I use the anecdote of my mate ending up with synthesis as he had no idea what was going on and just walked forwards; before he knew it he was jumping off the ledge.
He subsequently went back and blew the things up.
Same for me; I ended up with refuse as I didn't know I was being forced into an a / b / c situation. I was waiting for the 'twist' as I didn't think the game would end that stupidly.
Sadly, the stupidity is the twist. 
Sadly, the stupidity is the twist.
Did someone say...twist?
Sadly, the stupidity is the twist.
Well yes, quite. And to put into context, this was a straight 1 to 3 playthrough having not read anything about mass effect nor played a Bioware game before.
So apart from gaming experience (some 24 years from the C64) it could represent a typical 'new' person Bioware should attract (especially as I have disposal income - well at the moment anyway).
So to end up confused and going 'what the hell' isn't exactly the best thing; however as shotgun_julia points out it is the characters that bring you back, not the story in of itself.
who cares if it's real history? It's an analogy. You get the point. You think none of this was part of my thought process on the matter of 'before OR after ME3'?
Why canonize an end to the supposed high-level narrative of the series when you could literally fulfill unlimited amount of creative potential without provoking a backlash from 2/3rds of your fanbase?
Because it does matter. If synthesis is picked it doesn't matter if you and your people were fighting reapers or had no clue they even exsisted that choice affected everyone. However I hate that ending like no other and would have zero interest in a new Mass Effect game that used the green ending as cannon. And yes they would have to pick one and make it cannon because the new game would be just to large (and expensive) and I would think very hard to pull off. You nor anyone else has provided a working scenario for how BW could possiblity pull off a sequel that didn't take into account the choices made throughout ME1-3.
Well, now you've got Psychevore and me.
Don't forget CrutchCricket and myself. Control is the best! Obligatory gifs.
Don't forget CrutchCricket and myself. Control is the best! Obligatory gifs.
As a Dune fan Control has always had a special appeal to me for a future ME game setting. It'd be fascinating to see a Shepard-AI world, the same as a world where Giant Worm Leto controls everything.
Destroy is probably still my canon, but Control is at least as intellectually interesting to me.
In what sense do the ST/AG quests tie into finding or hindering Irenicus? Bodhi's involved with the quest series, but we don't know anything about her yet. If these count as Irenicus being involved, then we have to reclassify Grunt and Mordin's recruitment missions as being Collector-related too. As long as we're using the same standard for both games I'm fine either way.By "mandatory quests that have nothing to do with the wizard" including the whole Shadow Thieves vs assasin's guild stuff? 'Cause that ties directly to the wizard.
The Underdark? That's fixing what he broke too.
However, BSN polls are almost always different from actual Bio tracking data. For instance, players pick the geth over the quarians far more often than a BSN poll will indicate.
I think the results of the Geth/Quarian decision were being skewed by players who began the trilogy at Mass Effect 3. If you didn't have an imported character it was impossible to resolve the Rannoch arc peacefully. While it might sound odd for the average person that posts on a Bioware forum that someone would have hopped into the series at some point after Mass Effect 1, a lot of people actually did begin the series at ME3.
As a Dune fan Control has always had a special appeal to me for a future ME game setting. It'd be fascinating to see a Shepard-AI world, the same as a world where Giant Worm Leto controls everything.
Destroy is probably still my canon, but Control is at least as intellectually interesting to me.
I used to think along similar lines, but after reading Crutch Cricket's ideas in this thread, I'm not so sure now. The major difference between the God Emperor and the new Shepard AI in control is that Leto was still organic. He may lost most of his humanity through his metamorphosis(both mental and physical), but he didn't lose it completely. He even had to chance to regain his lost humanity near the end because of his love for Hwi Noree. Shepard on the other hand, has become an AI. He still has his memories, but that's about it. He doesn't have a body of his own unlike Leto II, and he is also secluded. Add in all those memories from all the species who were harvested(not sure if memories is the right word, maybe data. I'm not clear on how breaking down an organic body to its base components and injecting it into a reaper shell imparts memories or data, but that's a whole other topic), and he could very well lose his sense of humanity. Leto II may have also had an abundance of other memory, but it was still memories of humans. The final difference is that Leto II's goal through becoming the God Emperor and bringing about the "Golden Age" was to teach humanity to never again seek such an existence after his death in order to strengthen the species and prepare it for Kralizec. However, Shepard becomes the guardian and protector of all the species in the galaxy(or brutal dictator depending on your alignment), and I'm not so sure his overall goal matches Leto II's. He may even become completely indifferent to all the species of the galaxy, and silently withdraw in order to understand the complexities of the Universe as Crutch Cricket suggests.
However, it's still interesting to think about.
In what sense do the ST/AG quests tie into finding or hindering Irenicus? Bodhi's involved with the quest series, but we don't know anything about her yet. If these count as Irenicus being involved, then we have to reclassify Grunt and Mordin's recruitment missions as being Collector-related too. As long as we're using the same standard for both games I'm fine either way.
I do consider their recruitment missions to be related to the Collectors. They are the only ones that are, really (well, aside from Legion, for obvious reasons) I'd have been a lot happier with ME2 if more recruitment/loyalty missions had those kinds of connections
Ust Natha..... well, it's an obstacle courtesy of Irenicus, I guess.
And yes, Ust Natha was a direct result of his deal with the drow and his plans to invade Suldanessellar
How is doing a smaller scale story a step back? How are developers better at something than fans on deciding what's good or not? They aren't going to break new ground. Nor does that necessarily mean that it's a good thing. There's no need to make the stakes the same or raise them. It would detract from the universe, even more than it already has to have another conveniently larger than life galactic scale threat.
You don't know all David. And you certainly don't know better than everybody else. As far as most people look at you, you're a source of semi-comedic irritation, nothing more.
less people to hero on...i mean save!
Because it does matter. If synthesis is picked it doesn't matter if you and your people were fighting reapers or had no clue they even exsisted that choice affected everyone. However I hate that ending like no other and would have zero interest in a new Mass Effect game that used the green ending as cannon. And yes they would have to pick one and make it cannon because the new game would be just to large (and expensive) and I would think very hard to pull off. You nor anyone else has provided a working scenario for how BW could possiblity pull off a sequel that didn't take into account the choices made throughout ME1-3.
I think it's doable. It would just be one of those events that take place far enough into the future that the initial impacts of the ending choices would no longer be an issue.
Perhaps, in this future the Reapers -- if they are still alive -- will go on a 'mysterious' journey. This will remove the Reapers from being an issue and you only have to address it in a Codex entry.
The Geth can be rebuilt or perhaps leave with the Reapers, expanding it as a mass AI exodus.
The difficult parts would be the Quarians and the Krogans. In the latter case the Krogan we see could be the bitter remnants of a dead race. This would be harder than a Codex entry but could be done by making the Krogan appear less and have those who remain be more hostile. Or like the Rachno and Collector Base outcomes before them, have someone else cure them if Shepard didn't do it. The Quarians might be a little more difficult.
The green from Synthesis could be stated to have faded over time. The effects could be made up in a Destroy or Control scenario by again understating it's effects, have a future where everyone has cybernetic implants, or like the Catalyst stated it was achieved eventually on its own as it is apparently the natural evolution of life. In this case perhaps give some default bonus for Synthesizers for being a head of the curve, address it in a Codex, and your good to go.
Plus, the great thing about setting it so far in the future everyone from Shepard's arc will be dead and new races would have had time to enter the scene.
I think it's doable. It would just be one of those events that take place far enough into the future that the initial impacts of the ending choices would no longer be an issue.
Perhaps, in this future the Reapers -- if they are still alive -- will go on a 'mysterious' journey. This will remove the Reapers from being an issue and you only have to address it in a Codex entry.
The Geth can be rebuilt or perhaps leave with the Reapers, expanding it as a mass AI exodus.
The difficult parts would be the Quarians and the Krogans. In the latter case the Krogan we see could be the bitter remnants of a dead race. This would be harder than a Codex entry but could be done by making the Krogan appear less and have those who remain be more hostile. Or like the Rachno and Collector Base outcomes before them, have someone else cure them if Shepard didn't do it. The Quarians might be a little more difficult.
The green from Synthesis could be stated to have faded over time. The effects could be made up in a Destroy or Control scenario by again understating it's effects, have a future where everyone has cybernetic implants, or like the Catalyst stated it was achieved eventually on its own as it is apparently the natural evolution of life. In this case perhaps give some default bonus for Synthesizers for being a head of the curve, address it in a Codex, and your good to go.
Plus, the great thing about setting it so far in the future everyone from Shepard's arc will be dead and new races would have had time to enter the scene.
And this, while it is doable, is the hand waving I mentioned earlier. Plus nothing here combats the problem with BW having to pick one branch and make that cannon.
Yeah, it's a situation Irenicus created, and the player blunders into it and has to get past it. I suppose Adalon is the actual obstacle there, and the evil solution is to directly attack that obstacle. But Irenicus does put her in the way, though it's an accident that he's stopping the PC.And yes, Ust Natha was a direct result of his deal with the drow and his plans to invade Suldanessellar
As a Dune fan Control has always had a special appeal to me for a future ME game setting. It'd be fascinating to see a Shepard-AI world, the same as a world where Giant Worm Leto controls everything.
Destroy is probably still my canon, but Control is at least as intellectually interesting to me.
MEHEM is my canon of choice and I also love destroy but I'm also drawn to Control. One of My sheps went Control. The thought of a renegade control Shepard scares the heck out of me...screw it...I'll even say a paragon controller could present a big problem, with his/her obsession with justice, etc.
Actually, I'd be kinda down with Control if Shepard would A) actually take control, not be made into some sort of new thing, 
had the Reapers create an identical to her real body platform for her to take control of and walk around in, and then C) once everything was fixed, have the Reapers do a coordinate dance while flying into the sun through conventional FTL once their eezo was stripped.
I would support a control ending as canon if shep had the reapers fly off into dark space never to return and then sat inside the citadel and told everyone, "Okay, you're on your own."
A non-Reaper (aka super advanced synthetic intelligence) controlling all Reapers bends even space magic.
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