That's not the point. The point is the novel treating them--again--as disposable.
That's part of the theme from the book I got. Those in charge tend to think of others as disposable pawns. Be they human, city elf, or even Dalish.
Heck, the Dalish themselves were trying to decide if they should hand Celene over to Gaspard or just cut her throat and be done with it, before it all hit the fan
It just calls attention to the fact that elves really aren't that much different from humans. They are capable of just as much good or evil, left to their own devices.
That Arlethan may not have functioned that much differently from Orlais (or even Tevinter) doesn't surprise me.
Noted, and considered relatively unimportant. If only those who were morally perfect were allowed to receive justice for the wrongs done to them, the concept wouldn't even exist.
That's part of the theme from the book I got. Those in charge tend to think of others as disposable pawns. Be they human, city elf, or even Dalish.
Heck, the Dalish themselves were trying to decide if they should hand Celene over to Gaspard or just cut her throat and be done with it, before it all hit the fan
It's a series-wide theme thus far with what can be done in both DAO and DA2.
Noted, and considered relatively unimportant. If only those who were morally perfect were allowed to receive justice for the wrongs done to them, the concept wouldn't even exist.
It's not a matter of justice. I certainly don't deny the elves have been punching bags to the humans for a long, long time. It's a matter of perception.
But it should also be noted that elves are not inherently morally superior. The Dalish are not noble freedom-fighters. A restored elven homeland will not be a paradise where Fade spirits will do your laundry for you.
There are saints and sinners among humans and elves both. And their governments and organizations will reflect that.
It's a series-wide theme thus far with what can be done in both DAO and DA2.
Well, given my canon DAO game has the Dalish doing just fine (albiet with Lanaya rather than Zathrien leading them) and my DA2 game has the Dalish clan intact, after they realize that Marethari would not have wanted them to kill Merrill, I'd say disposable Dalish clans are not necessarily a running theme in my Dragon Age games 
It's not a matter of justice. I certainly don't deny the elves have been punching bags to the humans for a long, long time. It's a matter of perception.
But it should also be noted that elves are not inherently morally superior. The Dalish are not noble freedom-fighters. A restored elven homeland will not be a paradise where Fade spirits will do your laundry for you.
There are saints and sinners among humans and elves both. And their governments and organizations will reflect that.
Nor was it ever my aim to create one. I mean, it would be nice, but I have no illusions about elves being inherently morally superior to humans. I simply desire to destroy malevolent human power structures and rebuild a ravaged culture.
Well, given my canon DAO game has the Dalish doing just fine (albiet with Lanaya rather than Zathrien leading them) and my DA2 game has the Dalish clan intact, after they realize that Marethari would not have wanted them to kill Merrill, I'd say disposable Dalish clans are not necessarily a running theme in my Dragon Age games
The potential for such remains a problem for me.
Nor was it ever my aim to create one. I mean, it would be nice, but I have no illusions about elves being inherently morally superior to humans. I simply desire to destroy malevolent human power structures and rebuild a ravaged culture.
Noble. But too narrow.
I'd prefer to destroy or reform power structures in general.
I'd consider a reformed Orlesian empire that treats it's commoners, human and elves alike, decently would be a better outcome than turning the Dales into Orlais 2.0 as run by Celene or Gaspard atm
The potential for such remains a problem for me.
There's potential to do a lot of horrific things in this series. Simply choose not to do them.
The potential for such remains a problem for me.
That's not the point. The point is the novel treating them--again--as disposable.
Because one of the Big Daddies of Demons was set free
Noble. But too narrow.
I'd prefer to destroy or reform power structures in general.
I'd consider a reformed Orlesian empire that treats it's commoners, human and elves alike, decently would be a better outcome than turning the Dales into Orlais 2.0 as run by Celene or Gaspard atm
There are no elven power structures of any significance beyond a single clan, so I'm not all that concerned with that. I'd also like to dismantle the Orlesian Empire altogether, or at least ruin its ability to expand.
Then one has to wonder why you are playing a series that allows you to make choices if the things other people do in their games is so problematic for you.
It's not about what other players do, it's about the developers just casually throwing in repeated options for mass murder and arguable genocide.
That seems a little unreasonable to me. What, all lesbians need to have life-long, loving relationships? Lesbians can't betray each other, even when they are basically professional backstabbers? I don't know, that seems like putting your personal agenda before the quality of the story.
I don't see what's unreasonable about pointing out that there's a significant difference in how some straight relationships are allowed to prosper, like Rhys and Evangeline, while virtually every same sex relationship has ended in tragedy. It's clearly an issue that's going to bother some players.
*facepalm*
That was entirely unwarranted.
There are no elven power structures of any significance beyond a single clan, so I'm not all that concerned with that. I'd also like to dismantle the Orlesian Empire altogether, or at least ruin its ability to expand.
None at the present. But can you honestly say such a power structure wouldn't form, knowing what we do about how the Dalish function? Or the attitudes of the city elves? What is gained by dismantling the Orlesian Empire only to establish an elvish Orlais?
It's not about what other players do, it's about the developers just casually throwing in repeated options for mass murder and arguable genocide.
And selling people into slavery (including trusted friends)
Lettiing demons to possess children
Allowing entire (human) villages to be wiped out
Yeah, wiping out clans of Dalish is pretty dark. And I wouldn't do it, given a chance to do otherwise. But it's hardly unique as far as the casual brutality possible in Dragon Age.
That was entirely unwarranted.
While I can understand Xil's feeling about that, that still isn't a real valid reason to not pick up the book
While I can understand Xil's feeling about that, that still isn't a real valid reason to not pick up the book
No one is under any obligation to pick up the book, so I don't see the issue with Xil's choice. Not wanting to read a storyline where the same sex couple implodes (in a franchise where that consistently happens) is as valid as any other reason why someone might chose not to purchase the book.
No one is under any obligation to pick up the book, so I don't see the issue with Xil's choice. Not wanting to read a storyline where the same sex couple implodes (in a franchise where that consistently happens) is as valid as any other reason why someone might chose not to purchase the book.
Lol.
A demon they imprisoned killed them... Like why should anyone be sympathetic for that. They easily had it coming one day.
I didn't really understand the point in depicting the Dalish that way. Clan Virnehn was a cluster of one-dimensional caricatures, in contrast to how the main human characters were written, and the story couldn't even portray them as proper Dalish, given the elven prohibition against using magic that involves spirits. It's like the storyline depicted them as unpleasant so the reader wouldn't care about them, and I find that to be incredibly lazy.
What's a proper Dalish? I thought the clans varied in how closely they upheld their beliefs?
None at the present. But can you honestly say such a power structure wouldn't form, knowing what we do about how the Dalish function? Or the attitudes of the city elves? What is gained by dismantling the Orlesian Empire only to establish an elvish Orlais?
For the former, I neither know nor care; it can be worked on when the nation is being set up, and we don't know how we can do that until we know the circumstances of Inquisition.
And selling people into slavery (including trusted friends)Lettiing demons to possess children
Allowing entire (human) villages to be wiped out
Yeah, wiping out clans of Dalish is pretty dark. And I wouldn't do it, given a chance to do otherwise. But it's hardly unique as far as the casual brutality possible in Dragon Age.
Never quite in the same league... except for, perhaps, Annulment. And the repetition is the problem as much as the scope.
While I can understand Xil's feeling about that, that still isn't a real valid reason to not pick up the book
One would think that any variant of "hey, I don't really want to read this crap" would suffice.
What's a proper Dalish? I thought the clans varied in how closely they upheld their beliefs?
The behavior of the clans varies, but according to WoT, "Unlike other spellcasters, Dalish mages do not use any magic involving spirits, as they believe all spirits are dangerous." (page 104) This follows the same line of thought that's expressed by Merrill when she says that all spirits are dangerous, and chastises Anders by saying there's no such thing as a good spirit.
I didn't really understand the point in depicting the Dalish that way. Clan Virnehn was a cluster of one-dimensional caricatures, in contrast to how the main human characters were written, and the story couldn't even portray them as proper Dalish, given the elven prohibition against using magic that involves spirits. It's like the storyline depicted them as unpleasant so the reader wouldn't care about them, and I find that to be incredibly lazy.
Or they were well written, but just a bad example of the Dalish, just like bad examples of mages, templars, or any other group of people.
Or they were well written, but just a bad example of the Dalish, just like bad examples of mages, templars, or any other group of people.
Rubbish 
Or they were well written, but just a bad example of the Dalish, just like bad examples of mages, templars, or any other group of people.
I found them one-dimensional, not well-written. In fact, I found them to have the same lack of depth and nuance as Decimus and Grace.
I found them one-dimensional, not well-written.
Meh, ok, Lob. I'm really not interested in arguing it.
Regardless, I wonder how in the world they managed to actually summon a demon of that level so easily.
The behavior of the clans varies, but according to WoT, "Unlike other spellcasters, Dalish mages do not use any magic involving spirits, as they believe all spirits are dangerous." (page 104) This follows the same line of thought that's expressed by Merrill when she says that all spirits are dangerous, and chastises Anders by saying there's no such thing as a good spirit.
I see the inconsistency. When going by WoT's and Merrill's info the clan that got wiped out summoning that spirit were so desperate that they ignored their own rules in pursuit of power.
Never quite in the same league... except for, perhaps, Annulment. And the repetition is the problem as much as the scope.
I feel the same way. It's not like you're given the option to wipe out an entire human society by your own hand, in the same way you're afforded the choice to annihilate an entire clan of Dalish elves in both games.
Would love...Just for once, for the shoe to be on the other foot.
But hey, it's all gravy 'cus the Dalish elves deserve it, baby! 
I feel the same way. It's not like you're given the option to wipe out an entire human society by your own hand, in the same way you're afforded the choice to annihilate an entire clan of Dalish elves in both games.
You mean, except for when you burn everyone in Amaranthine alive? Or when you massacre every living person in Haven?
Edit: In fact, Haven really counts, since you're also eradicating their culture.
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