528 réponses à ce sujet

[AresKeith]

That's hardly what I want from you, Ares baby

inb4Elu lol

[Hellion Rex]

inb4Elu lol

*hiss*

[FireAndBlood]

That's hardly what I want from you, Ares baby

Get another thread you two.

[Divine Justinia V]

Get another thread you two.

 

considering the nature of the past couple pages, I think we're fine, elu 2.0

 

but don't worry, we have quite a few already mwahahahahahahaha.

 

any who

 

 

Xilizhra,

 

Could this be because the relationship started with bad intentions? Real loving relationships are not about using their mate. Rhys/Evangeline did not intend to use each other. They were honest and no hidden agenda.

 

Is the message relationships can't last with deception? Look at Marc and Katreil for example. he put a sword through her. I think we can agree that did not end well.

 

I think you summed it up really well, Ghostbusters.

[oceanicsurvivor]

A mysterious figure approaches Felassan at the end of the novel expecting him to reveal Briala's password for the eluvians. We don't know who this figure was, but its a good guess that its Fen' Harel judging by some of the hints dropped in the rest of the book.

 

The only reason I'm skeptical about it being Fen'Harel is that all the stories about him had him being super sneaky...as opposed to straight up/forwardly murdering someone. I mean, it makes sense that Felasaan was somehow working with him, but the murder itself didn't fit the M.O based on what Felsaan himself has said. (at least it didn't fit to me)

 

 

The Dalish in the book seemed almost like a 'what if' story. What if Merrill's clan had listened to her/gotten behind her plan to restore the mirror? It seems like that would have lead to a similar situation?

 

 

And as much as I would have loved for Celene/Briala to be happy and together in the end ...their relationship was doomed from the start. Regardless of all the lies (not that that helped any) the power dynamic in that relationship was a bit messed up (to say the least). But I thought the characters/relationship it self was handled pretty well.

[EmissaryofLies]

I don't like ice cream

 

So you admit to being an abomination?

 

Well, can't have ya puttin' salt in my game. Off you go. 

[TKavatar]

Are we sure Felassan is dead? He was in the Fade when he was killed so he would be tranquil, but that 'last thought' line seems pretty final.

[Dean_the_Young]

Odd. I clicked on a thread that seems to deal with spoilers for The Masked Empire, and instead I just read several pages on the lesbian relationship desires and complaints of someone who hasn't even read the book and so has little grounds to even claim what sort of lesbianism was in The Masked Empire (which is the only part of the exchange that was remotely on topic).

 

Odd.

[LobselVith8]

This wasn't just casual use of spirit magic, though. The Dalish summoned Imshael to find the eluvians, which fits right into their goals of restoring the Dalish to their former glory, and even then there was a line they wouldn't cross with the spirit. I mean, if they had been willing to play ball with it before Celene arrived, they absolutely would have claimed the eluvians before anyone else, so they were trying to be smart about how they dealt with it.

And though the guards and warleaders were absolute jerks to Celene and Michel, and even to Briala, all of the elves weren't portrayed poorly, they were actually respected, the Dalish way of life isn't disrespected, its just the opposite really, and when Gaspard finds the camp butchered, both he and Remache immediately say the elves didn't deserve what happened to them. And Mihris isn't made out to be a villain, just really angry that Michel killed someone she loved, and Briala even sympathizes with her.

So, they weren't cardboard cutout villains. Have you read the book? Because if you haven't, I think you should read chapters that deal with them and then judge them. I can maybe post an excerpt or two about the Dalish in TME later when I have the time if anyone is interested.

Using magic that involves spirits is in contradiction to how the Dalish are supposed to behave, according to the World of Thedas. Clan Virnehn is used as a plot device in a way that's in complete opposition to this, and the Dalish of that Clan are razor thin in their characterization.

Also, I've read it. Don't mistake my distaste for certain parts of it with the notion I haven't. My issues are based on what I've read. "Oh, Briala, by the way, the people you've idolized for most of your life are pompous idiots." (page 219) Felassan uses the paper mâché caricatures of Clan Virnehn to condemn the Dalish as a whole, and I see plenty of fans doing the same in these threads.

There's also the warleader, another asinine character who is right out of a Saturday Morning Cartoon. I think that Grace had more characterization, and that's just sad.

I guess I thought that, perhaps, some depth might have been given to these characters to give insight into the complexity of the Dalish, but I was mistaken. Instead, we were given flat characters, who only served as a plot point for Briala attaining control over the Eluvians, which may explain why Clan Virnehn were pretty much caricatures.

[Lenimph]

What exactly does WoT say about using spirits? Because there's a difference between actually bonding with a spirit and using it's power, vs making verbal deals with the spirit. 

 

Also almost every single keeper we have met in the franchise has done some kind of magic involving spirits. There's some contradiction going on here, not just in The Masked Empire.

 

Plus Merrill herself said that the Dalish have no problem interacting with spirits... be it with caution. 

[LobselVith8]

What exactly does WoT say about using spirits? Because there's a difference between actually bonding with a spirit and using it's power, vs making verbal deals with the spirit.

"Unlike other spellcasters, Dalish mages do not use any magic involving spirits, as they believe all spirits are dangerous." It also reads their spells have "evolved to be deeply rooted in nature, manipulating earthly forces with a heavy emphasis on herbalism and healing."

Also almost every single keeper we have met in the franchise has done some kind of magic involving spirits. There's some contradiction going on here, not just in The Masked Empire.

Zathrian used blood magic in secret centuries ago, and Marethari let Audacity loose without the Sabrae clan being aware of her actions.

Plus Merrill herself said that the Dalish have no problem interacting with spirits... be it with caution.

Merrill never said that the Dalish do that; she says the Dalish don't share the Andrastian view on Spirits and Demons, instead seeing them as spirits.

She also cautions that the protagonist can learn things from a spirit without making a bargain with it, as Hawke can gather information from the Profane Abomination and Torpor, instead of immediately attacking the creatures. However, she doesn't say the Dalish do this.

[lil yonce]

Using magic that involves spirits is in contradiction to how the Dalish are supposed to behave, according to the World of Thedas. Clan Virnehn is used as a plot device in a way that's in complete opposition to this, and the Dalish of that Clan are razor thin in their characterization.

Also, I've read it. Don't mistake my distaste for certain parts of it with the notion I haven't. My issues are based on what I've read. "Oh, Briala, by the way, the people you've idolized for most of your life are pompous idiots." (page 219) Felassan uses the paper mâché caricatures of Clan Virnehn to condemn the Dalish as a whole, and I see plenty of fans doing the same in these threads.

There's also the warleader, another asinine character who is right out of a Saturday Morning Cartoon. I think that Grace had more characterization, and that's just sad.

I guess I thought that, perhaps, some depth might have been given to these characters to give insight into the complexity of the Dalish, but I was mistaken. Instead, we were given flat characters, who only served as a plot point for Briala attaining control over the Eluvians, which may explain why Clan Virnehn were pretty much caricatures.

 

I don't see the issue with the spirit magic because its not a bizarre use of it. They summoned a demon to find the eluvians, and they treated it like a dangerous spirit, they bound it and everything. Merrill does the same thing, and she's a Dalish mage. Whether its acceptable or not, this kind of decision seems to come down to the Keeper in the end, and clans are different, and that's it to me.

 

And the book also says this about the Dalish for example, "The young warriors stopped training with blades and took up bows. Hunters came back to camp with rabbits or deer. As the hours passed, Michel was forced to admit that the camp was run well, more like a military camp than the cave full of knife-eared bandits he had expected. Every elf was busy, moving with purpose on their duties, and unlike a military camp, the people he thought of as servants weren't treated any worse than the hunters or the guards. They called happily to each other across ranks, trading greetings or jibes like a family." This is clearly a good thing about the Dalish, especially since we learn that the ancient elves had slaves and servants, and likely treated them as Orlesains treat theirs.

 

Felassan doesn't have good things to say about Orlais or the Orlesians either, so his opinion on the Dalish, is an opinion, even if its accurate. The Dalish are pompous and xenophobic, but lorewise, we've known that about them for a long time. The clan in TME is just particularly nasty to highlight the glaring flaws in the Dalish mindset, the flat-ear and shemlen you might have heard in DAO or DA2 and brushed off as acceptable expressions of anger and distrust, this portrayal refuses to let someone overlook those kinds of things and deal with them and what this means for elves in Inquisition, so its not done for no reason, and clans are different, so I don't see how this portrayal makes all Dalish the same.

 

And what about the guard-captain from the first few chapters that harasses Briala? There are flat characters in the book, but they don't represent everybody in their class, of their race or sex. Felassan's supposed to be a Dalish elf too, so the book isn't saying all Dalish elves are the same, and we're given Mihris as a full character for quite a bit of the end. And the end of the book is spent in Dalish ruins, we learn about some Dalish magic, rituals and lost Dalish grandeur, and its not condemned, everybody wants the eluvians, so no, I don't think the portrayal of the Dalish is incredibly negative or at all unfair.

[wcholcombe]

Again one could argue that casting a spell to summon a demon isn't the same as actually involving a demon. As such while a dalish wouldn't have a spirit healer or a seer, they could still summon a demon or spirit and consider such action to be dangerous.

[Lenimph]

"Unlike other spellcasters, Dalish mages do not use any magic involving spirits, as they believe all spirits are dangerous." It also reads their spells have "evolved to be deeply rooted in nature, manipulating earthly forces with a heavy emphasis on herbalism and healing."


Zathrian used blood magic in secret centuries ago, and Marethari let Audacity loose without the Sabrae clan being aware of her actions.


Merrill never said that the Dalish do that; she says the Dalish don't share the Andrastian view on Spirits and Demons, instead seeing them as spirits.

She also cautions that the protagonist can learn things from a spirit without making a bargain with it, as Hawke can gather information from the Profane Abomination and Torpor, instead of immediately attacking the creatures. However, she doesn't say the Dalish do this.

That's what I meant about Merrill.... interacting = talking....interacting =/= making deals (necessarily). That whole conversation was to justify her own interactions with a demon

.-. so yeah. 

 

Also Zathrian was tied to the spirit of the forest directly. That's more then blood magic. 

 

Just sounds like it was just trying to say the Dalish Mages don't engage in the "Spirit" spell tree.

[LobselVith8]

The Dalish in the book seemed almost like a 'what if' story. What if Merrill's clan had listened to her/gotten behind her plan to restore the mirror? It seems like that would have lead to a similar situation?

I don't think that's necessarily the case. Merrill was building her own Eluvian, while Clan Virnehn wanted to unlock the secret of existing Eluvians from the days of Arlathan.

There were also the respective spirits involved. Audacity was bound to a statute by ancient, powerful magic and sundered from the Fade. It had to be released intentionally by powerful magic. It's why Audacity was trapped since the war between Arlathan and the Imperium.

In contrast, Imshael was in a circle of stones - a summoning circle that was destroyed with not much difficulty by Michel.

Merrill's efforts were also primarily from her own painstaking research, while Clan Virnehn expected to get this knowledge from Imshael.

And without Michel to release the spirit in this hypothetical scenario, what might have happened? Who knows.

And as much as I would have loved for Celene/Briala to be happy and together in the end ...their relationship was doomed from the start. Regardless of all the lies (not that that helped any) the power dynamic in that relationship was a bit messed up (to say the least). But I thought the characters/relationship it self was handled pretty well.

I thought the characters of Briala and Celene were fleshed out as well, but I certainly understand where Xil is coming from.

Xil had an issue with the trend of how same sex relationships for women have been depicted, including what she's gleamed about Briala and Celene. The persistence of how these relationships end in some sort of tragedy. She didn't think TME would be to her liking because of this, and I don't see the problem with her expressing her opinion about this in a thread about TME.

I appreciate that it couldn't be easy to put herself out there like that, and I wish some people were a little more understanding about her point of view in this thread.

[In Exile]

"Unlike other spellcasters, Dalish mages do not use any magic involving spirits, as they believe all spirits are dangerous." It also reads their spells have "evolved to be deeply rooted in nature, manipulating earthly forces with a heavy emphasis on herbalism and healing."


Zathrian used blood magic in secret centuries ago, and Marethari let Audacity loose without the Sabrae clan being aware of her actions.


Merrill never said that the Dalish do that; she says the Dalish don't share the Andrastian view on Spirits and Demons, instead seeing them as spirits.

She also cautions that the protagonist can learn things from a spirit without making a bargain with it, as Hawke can gather information from the Profane Abomination and Torpor, instead of immediately attacking the creatures. However, she doesn't say the Dalish do this.

Regardless of what WOT says, your own post illustrates that a solid minority of Dalish Mages we see - 2/5 - directly interacted with spirits. Zathrian did it and was a pillar of his tribe. Merrill did it because she believed it was her only opportunity to restore an Eluvian.

For that reason, WOT can't be a categorical rule. I don't have the benefit of reading the book to talk about any motivation the clan featured might have, but it seems to be the case that the rule is by no means categorical. We've seen both a major leader in the Dalish community use a spirit for the sake of revenge and an idealistic young mage deal with a demon/spirit for what she saw as benefit of her tribe.

[LobselVith8]

I don't see the issue with the spirit magic because its not a bizarre use of it. They summoned a demon to find the eluvians, and they treated it like a dangerous spirit, they bound it and everything. Merrill does the same thing, and she's a Dalish mage. Whether its acceptable or not, this kind of decision seems to come down to the Keeper in the end, and clans are different, and that's it.

I don't see the comparison, given the divergence in the two scenarios. Merrill didn't summon Audacity, and being bound to a statute by ancient magic since the war of Arlathan isn't equivalent to a spirit being trapped in a modern summoning circle that seems to depend on the strength of the mage who forged the wards.

And the book also says this about the Dalish for example, "The young warriors stopped training with blades and took up bows. Hunters came back to camp with rabbits or deer. As the hours passed, Michel was forced to admit that the camp was run well, more like a military camp than the cave full of knife-eared bandits he had expected. Every elf was busy, moving with purpose on their duties, and unlike a military camp, the people he thought of as servants weren't treated any worse than the hunters or the guards. They called happily to each other across ranks, trading greetings or jibes like a family." This is clearly a good thing about the Dalish, especially since we learn that the ancient elves had slaves and servants, and likely treated them as Orlesains treat theirs.

Michel also mocks and belittles the Dalish. Your entry also means little when the named Dalish characters the reader is introduced to are ridiculously one-dimensional. This clan is simply there to be killed off, to be used as a stepping stone to the Eluvians, and to be held as the example to condemn the Dalish as a whole, whether it's Felassan or Briala.

Felassan doesn't have good things to say about Orlais or the Orlesians either, so his opinion on the Dalish, is an opinion, even if its accurate. The Dalish are pompous and xenophobic, but lorewise, we've known that about them for a long time. The clan in TME is just particularly nasty to highlight the glaring flaws in the Dalish mindset, the flat-ear and shemlen you might have heard in DAO or DA2 and brushed off as acceptable expressions of anger and distrust, this portrayal refuses to let someone overlook those kinds of things and deal with them and what this means for elves in Inquisition, so its not done for no reason, and clans are different, so I don't see how this portrayal makes all Dalish the same.

Shemlen is elven for human, while shem is used as a derogatory term by elves, and it was very strange that the Dalish excerpts seemed to forget this.

Also, the variety of the clans means not all clans are the same. Aveline never would've been adopted otherwise. The treaties would never have been signed. Velanna's clan wouldn't remark positively about Velanna being in the company of humans otherwise. I don't understand the point in giving us prominent caricatures for the Dalish, when the writer was capable of providing depth to Gaspard and Celene.

Furthermore, Felassan and Briala act as though all the Dalish are no different than this clan, which was asinine.

And what about the guard-captain from the first few chapters that harasses Briala? There are flat characters in the book, but they don't represent everybody in their class, of their race or sex. Felassan's supposed to be a Dalish elf too, so the book isn't saying all Dalish elves are the same, and we're given Mihris as a full character for quite a bit of the end.

The fact that we're given multiple human characters to balance those portrayals out doesn't persuade me to your point of view on the matter.

Also, Briala calls Felassan's Dalish nature into question, and he sidesteps the issue entirely when confronted about it.

And the end of the book is spent in Dalish ruins, we learn about some Dalish magic, rituals and lost Dalish grandeur, and its not condemned, everybody wants the eluvians, so no, I don't think the portrayal of the Dalish is incredibly negative or at all unfair.

The Eluvians are relics of Arlathan.

[Hellion Rex]

I don't think Felassan was lying about being ethnically/born as Dalish. I simply think that he just no longer sees himself as Dalish anymore, perhaps as a result of his work with the unknown entity.

[LobselVith8]

Again one could argue that casting a spell to summon a demon isn't the same as actually involving a demon. As such while a dalish wouldn't have a spirit healer or a seer, they could still summon a demon or spirit and consider such action to be dangerous.

It seems to be an issue of rationalizing what took place in TME and the role of the Dalish as a plot device. My primary issue would still be over Clan Virnehn being populated with one-dimensional characters. I don't think it was necessary to write them that way.

[oceanicsurvivor]

I don't think that's necessarily the case. Merrill was building her own Eluvian, while Clan Virnehn wanted to unlock the secret of existing Eluvians from the days of Arlathan.

There were also the respective spirits involved. Audacity was bound to a statute by ancient, powerful magic and sundered from the Fade. It had to be released intentionally by powerful magic. It's why Audacity was trapped since the war between Arlathan and the Imperium.

In contrast, Imshael was in a circle of stones - a summoning circle that was destroyed with not much difficulty by Michel.

Merrill's efforts were also primarily from her own painstaking research, while Clan Virnehn expected to get this knowledge from Imshael.

And without Michel to release the spirit in this hypothetical scenario, what might have happened? Who knows.


I thought the characters of Briala and Celene were fleshed out as well, but I certainly understand where Xil is coming from.

Xil had an issue with the trend of how same sex relationships for women have been depicted, including what she's gleamed about Briala and Celene. The persistence of how these relationships end in some sort of tragedy. She didn't think TME would be to her liking because of this, and I don't see the problem with her expressing her opinion about this in a thread about TME.

I appreciate that it couldn't be easy to put herself out there like that, and I wish some people were a little more understanding about her point of view in this thread.

 

There are certainly differences between Merrill and this clan, but ultimately their goal was the same. They wanted to use the eluvians to restore their culture and were willing to consort with demons to do so. If Merrill had had the backing of her clan, things could have gone smoother or gotten a lot harrier/more tragic, like they did for this clan. It just seemed like an extension of that plot from DA2 imo. And kind of shows that Merrill isn't alone in her thinking/perhaps the Dalish are generally getting more desperate? (perhaps)

 

I'm gay as well, so I understand where she was coming from. And yeah, I (obviously) agree with her assessment that female same-sex relationships have an abysmal track record when it comes to anyone ever ending up happy. But I do think that these were well done characters and as much as I loved the relationship/characters  and was hoping to see it succeed b/c of that, the power dynamic also made me really uncomfortable. There is also a bad trend of lesbian relationships with unequal power balances (it isn't as prevalent as the tragedy for all queer women one, but it is prevalent enough to make me uncomfortable). Anyways, I certainly meant no offense to you/Xil/anyone by mentioning Celene/Briala in my earlier post, I was only trying to say I thought they were both good characters and the relationship (though ending in a trope) was overall handled pretty well.

 

Edit: Thinking about it a bit more;  it was an action book for a large audience (not a queer only audience) that featured -exclusively- a same-sex relationship (prevalently). And both of them could kick butt. I think those two facts might make me more forgiving of the books end...that and the fact that those two could still reunite in Inquisition...since it was made clear they still cared for one another (but thats probably wishful thinking haha)

[LobselVith8]

I'm gay as well, so I understand where she was coming from. And yeah, I (obviously) agree with her assessment that female same-sex relationships have an abysmal track record when it comes to anyone ever ending up happy. But I do think that these were well done characters and as much as I loved the relationship/characters and was hoping to see it succeed b/c of that, the power dynamic also made me really uncomfortable. There is also a bad trend of lesbian relationships with unequal power balances (it isn't as prevalent as the tragedy for all queer women one, but it is prevalent enough to make me uncomfortable). Anyways, I certainly meant no offense to you/Xil/anyone by mentioning Celene/Briala in my earlier post, I was only trying to say I thought they were both good characters and the relationship (though ending in a trope) was overall handled pretty well.

Edit: Thinking about it a bit more; it was an action book for a large audience (not a queer only audience) that featured -exclusively- a same-sex relationship (prevalently). And both of them could kick butt. I think those two facts might make me more forgiving of the books end...that and the fact that those two could still reunite in Inquisition...since it was made clear they still cared for one another (but thats probably wishful thinking haha)

I wasn't offended by your post. While I'm not gay, and I'll never pretend to know the difficulties Xil faces (or the hardships you face), I understand what it's like to feel marginalized, growing up as a Latino, so I can relate to the frustration when you see how people like you are represented, and you find it lacking; I just wish some people here didn't feel the need to go on the offensive when Xil was just being honest about her feelings.

I thought you had some very interesting things to say, and I'm glad you shared your thoughts. As for Briala and Celene, who knows what the future holds. Stranger things have happened.

[ladyofpayne]

I don't understand - what city Gaspard rules?

[Sir JK]

It seems to be an issue of rationalizing what took place in TME and the role of the Dalish as a plot device. My primary issue would still be over Clan Virnehn being populated with one-dimensional characters. I don't think it was necessary to write them that way.

 

I disagree with you about clan Virehn being one-dimensional Lobsel. They are villains yes, but they're relatively well fleshed out as well. The Orlesian noble Mainserai is one-dimensional, he kills elves because he finds it amusing/his mood is poor. Granted, he is part of a larger group of orlesian nobles that vary greatly in portrayal, but he himself is as deep as a puddle. We see no explanation of his character, no motivation or anything that argues why there's more to him than being a villain.

 

That's a cardboard villain.

 

Clan Virehn on the other hand, while not quite at the level of Gaspard, is given a thorough explanation. We see depiction of their society being more than that role, such as the afore mentioned camp-life scene. Mihiris isn't a terrible person she just loves a man and it is his death that causes her to swear revenge. His death being the result of him being in the wrong place at the wrong time and in no way being a fault of his own. Their keeper also makes a point to explain that not all clans are as clan Virehn, he pretty much outright confirms that he runs that clan much stricter than other clans do. That he's much less tolerant of city elves and humans.

 

The keeper summoned Ishmael for the Eluvians, yes. Exactly why he chose to do so despite what we know of dalish is unknown. However, Ismhael demanded a choice of the dramatic kind and their keepers refused to comply. That's not only a testament to him but to their entire clan. When a demon asked them to compromise themselves, they refused.

 

They're not cardboard villains. They actually have a degree of depth. Their character's actions are framed and in context, there's an explanation and a motivation. Felassan alludes to something like this happening just about half the book as well. He repeatedly points out that the dalish aren't as fantastic as they're percieved to be. So it's foreshadowed well in advance as well.

 

They are villains and how they ended up is tragic (which everyone seems to agree with). I'm getting the impression, and I say this with the utmost respect, that you're more disappointed the Dalish weren't "good guys" (or at least not villains) in this book than how they're actually written.

 

Regardless, as you may recall I've mentioned for some time I wanted to see the dalish at their worst. I think I did get that here. This clan was in a sense a mirror of Orlesian society. Obsessed with abstract things and horribly racist. I'm satisfied with that.

 

Hopefully DA:I will now provide us with a clan that's decent and does not end up badly.

[Divine Justinia V]

Odd. I clicked on a thread that seems to deal with spoilers for The Masked Empire, and instead I just read several pages on the lesbian relationship desires and complaints of someone who hasn't even read the book and so has little grounds to even claim what sort of lesbianism was in The Masked Empire (which is the only part of the exchange that was remotely on topic).

 

Odd.

 

I wish I could like this 100 times over

[Jedi Master of Orion]

Alrighty, so I just finished reading the book and it was certainly interesting. It kept my attention. I don't know how I feel about it though. I was left feeling very conflicted. I'm actually not sure who I feel like I'd prefer to support.

 

The being Felassan was talking to though was definitely Fen'Harel though. It seems like he probably is behind the Veil tears. And I had suspected as much.

 

I will say that I think the Dalish really got the short end of the stick in terms of portrayal though. The only really explicitly good thing about them is that Michel at one point muses on how the Dalish treat each other better than humans do. Which ironically does paint them in a much better light given the revelation that in Ancient elves treated their lower classes the same was Orlais does.

 

Keeper Thelhen (and by extension most of his clan) is easily the most racist and xenophobic of all the Dalish clans we've seen so far. His hatred of humanity is so all consuming that he'd prefer every single non Dalish be destroyed before returning to his ancestral homeland. Not even Velanna was that racist.

 

He'd be the type of elf more at home in the 41st Millennium.

 

In addition Felassan, who initially seems like an example of a good Dalish, is revealed to not only be not a Dalish at all, but he is both smarter than the clan, is more knowledgeable in their own area of expertize than they are AND holds them in complete contempt. So much so he is find with standing by while Michel unwittingly gets them all gruesomely murdered. And afterward he (and by extension much of the narrative) considers them to have brought it on themselves (which is only partially true).

 

Afterward, even though the book takes the time to point out that it was only one clan out of many and that all clans are different, Bria still seems to adopt the perspective that all Dalish are arrogant and uncaring. To me the book seems to leave the impression of them as cruel arrogant xenophobic idiots and to me there were insufficient counter examples. Much like many anti-Dalish posters like to imagine them as, I think. Even though this clan has policies that are explicitly different than any of the 3 we've seen before.

 

Between Celene, Gaspard and Bria, I was actually a little stunned to realize I think by the end I found Gaspard more sympathetic because he seemed like a straight up villain at first. And ultimately he still is a power hungry authoritarian racist warmonger, but I really enjoyed his layers of depth.

 

What bothered me I think was the way the book framed Briala's position. She may have a noble motive but she actually seems like the she's the most dangerous and destructive of all the players. While Celene and Gaspard want to win the war to save Orlais and bring stability to the world, her plan is to deliberately make the war as long and painful and destructive as possible. That makes her a true agent of chaos. She'd be actively trying to make everything worse. And she'd be both an enemy of humanity and of order itself.

 

By the end of the book I really didn't trust Felassan. But both her perspective on her final goodbye to him and his final scene made it seem like he was supposed to be a hero. And if he was teaching her to be like Fen'Harel, that more than anything seems like she'd be a terrible influence on the world.