136 réponses à ce sujet

[Potato Cat]

Kirkwall allowed City Elves to join the City Guard, and there's really nothing saying Elves can't join the Templar

Evangeline was originally supposed to be an elf.

[Master Warder Z_]

Kirkwall allowed City Elves to join the City Guard, and there's really nothing saying Elves can't join the Templar

 

In fact there is Gaider saying they can become Templars, hence my prior "Elven Templar thread" and all.

 

._.

[Cainhurst Crow]

A dash, maybe a spritz. Definantly more then a drop. But not more then a smidgen.

[Senya]

It is indeed possible. If I recall correctly, Templars do not fall under secular jurisdiction. So, an elven recruit would be immune to prosecution by the local magistrate if he or she is part of the Templar Order. Then, of course, there's the war going on. The Templars can't be picky right now.

[AresKeith]

In fact there is Gaider saying they can become Templars, hence my prior "Elven Templar thread" and all.

 

._.

 

So it's not that far-fetched for an Templar Elf to climb up the ranks

[The Baconer]

If I recall correctly, Templars do not fall under secular jurisdiction. So, an elven recruit would be immune to prosecution by the local magistrate if he or she is part of the Templar Order.

 

Technically, perhaps. Realistically, no.

[Azrielon]

I kind of want the Templar/Mage war to be an important sub-plot, maybe about the comparative size of dealing with all the Eamon crap in Origins (partially because I would like to see it largely wrapped up by the end with a nice pretty blood covered bow).

[LobselVith8]

Kirkwall allowed City Elves to join the City Guard, and there's really nothing saying Elves can't join the Templar

 

I credit Guard Captain Aveline for Lia being able to join the City Guard.

[Master Warder Z_]

I credit Guard Captain Aveline for Lia being able to join the City Guard.

 

Despite her being allowed to join even if Aveline is booted out of the Guard?

[Wolfen09]

Society's stance on elves is portrayed really well in the novels, however I think the games have done a lackluster job of it (unless you picked the city elf origin).  I mean for the most part, in true lore, the elves may be free, but they are borderline slaves.  To give them the freedom to join the guard does not make sense to me in this case, and if they can join the guard, why is lia the only one we see?

[LobselVith8]

Society's stance on elves is portrayed really well in the novels, however I think the games have done a lackluster job of it (unless you picked the city elf origin).  I mean for the most part, in true lore, the elves may be free, but they are borderline slaves.  To give them the freedom to join the guard does not make sense to me in this case, and if they can join the guard, why is lia the only one we see?

 

Aveline is always the Guard Captain, whether Hawke helps her or not (although the circumstances differ, as the two codex entries after the Deep Roads reflect), so I can see her as the instrumental difference for the Kirkwall Guard.

[TK514]

Aveline is always the Guard Captain, whether Hawke helps her or not (although the circumstances differ, as the two codex entries after the Deep Roads reflect), so I can see her as the instrumental difference for the Kirkwall Guard.

I would agree. Kirkwall is different, because Aveline runs the guard as a meritocracy. Lia herself is also an exception, because she can claim a connection, however tenuous, with the Champion of Kirkwall.

[Wolfen09]

From what i remember, she doesn't join the guard until act 3 and aveline could be out of a job at that point, and she still joins...  though this is not confirmed by me, because aveline never lost her job with me

[Gervaise]

I'm happy for it to play an important part provided it is dealt with in a balanced way, as in DAO, rather than the extremes that were present in DA2.   In Origins I could temper my reaction to either side according to who my character was and in particular if they were a mage.   I could see it from both sides.   There was also a responsible group of Apostates known as the Mages Collective who seemed to do their best to police themselves and try and improve public perception of mages.

 

In DA2 we had mages going off bang and turning into abominations at the drop of a hat, insane blood mages, cruel Tevinter blood mages, radical revolutionary mages who thought causing terror in the populace was the right way to go about getting their freedom and finally the hypocritical Anders who couldn't seem to see why allowing himself to become possessed and blowing up the Grand Cleric wasn't likely to do the mages any favours.   Plus we had a First Enchanter who went off his head for no good reason - since every place through I was defending the mages, succeeded in doing so and then he turned on me.

 

On the other hand, we had incompetent Templars who couldn't even keep the Gallows secure, we had sadistic Templars, illegal acts of making mages tranquil, accusations of rape against them, and a Knight Commander who was either unaware of this or secretly condoned it.   She was fully prepared to threaten the life of Hawke's sister, even though she had admitted she was a model mage and she called for an annulment of the Circle even though she knew they were not responsible for the bomb.   Finally she proved a total hypocrite in using magic which ultimately sent her insane. 

 

I always defended the mages on the grounds that they were being condemned for something they didn't do, plus if my Hawke was not a mage and Bethany was in the Circle, I knew there was at least one mage there who was totally innocent of any charge of blood magic.   Circles are meant to be annulled if the Templars have lost control and they have been taken over by demons, not simply because there are a few bad apples among them.

 

So I am perfectly willing to act as a go between in order to get the mages and the Templars to work together for the greater good and even broker a long term peace agreement but I don't want to be forced into taking sides because to date I have not been shown that either side can claim the moral high ground.  

 

However, I also think that keeping the mages under control was politically motivated and the Chantry went along with it because the nobles of Orlais wanted to keep power to themselves and they didn't want the peasants to have mages in their ranks who were in a position to lead a revolt against their rule.  It is noticeable that in the past mages from noble houses seem to have had a much better time of it than the others and even get Templars selected by their own family to watch over them.  Even Fenris admitted as much when he says that in Tevinter it was not a case of keeping poor peasants under control but the scions of the noble houses.    So it is possible that with Orlais going into meltdown and the Chantry losing its main powerbase outside the Templars along with it, things will become very different in the future.   For example, I imagine Alistair/Anora would be much more confident about allowing mages freedom to govern themselves in their realm if they no longer had to fear a Chantry backed, Orlesian Exalted March against them.

[LobselVith8]

From what i remember, she doesn't join the guard until act 3 and aveline could be out of a job at that point, and she still joins...  though this is not confirmed by me, because aveline never lost her job with me

 

Aveline still becomes Guard Captain if Hawke doesn't help her. After the Deep Roads, her codex reads:

 

"Since the adventure in the Deep Roads, Aveline has redoubled her efforts in the city guard. The previous captain left suddenly, and while a Fereldan could not be promoted outright, Aveline's military experience made her an 'adequate choice' for the captain of the guard in Seneschal Bran's estimation.

 

Becoming captain of the guard title should have brought Aveline stability, but she has instead found herself taxed by having so many people under her care. She is very protective of the people she commands, to the point of training each guardsman herself and personally reinforcing otherwise simple patrols. Injury rates are lower than ever before, but the guards are beginning to feel smothered.

 

Aveline is utterly dedicated to her job, leaving no time for anything beyond the occasional sidetrack with Hawke - even that is an excuse to watch over people she cares about. She is a guardian in every waking moment, and she doesn't seem to know how to put down the weight she carries."

 

In Act III, if Aveline doesn't marry Donnic:

 

"It is three years since the Qunari uprising, and Guard-Captain Aveline is as driven as ever. Her guards could give a Fereldan battalion a run for their coin, and she commands their undying respect; however, all would agree that she's the hardest captain they have ever served. Aveline takes that as a compliment, although it is not always intended as such. She knows it, but accepts it as necessary for the greater good, both theirs and that of Kirkwall.

 

Being captain of the guard is an all-consuming position that she wouldn't give up for the world, although some in the templars would prefer that her guard had a lesser presence in keeping order. At the least, they would prefer that Aveline be more accepting of their oversight. Her association with the Champion has helped dissuade them, but pressure is mounting."

 

Aveline's marriage with Donnic actually helps her leadership as the Captain of the Guard, including when the Right of Annulment takes place.

[EmperorSahlertz]

*cough* Elven Templars and Mages...

Which Elven Templars? I doubt there are any.

 

Nevertheless I should have specified, Dalish wouldn't care much about it, and since the Elven character is Dalish....

[Aimi]

History might not, but individual periods do.

Periodization is a retroactively imposed intersubjective cognitive construct. It is not objective; it is not "wie es eigentlich gewesen".

When did the American Civil War end? Was it on 9 April 1865, when the Army of Northern Virginia's leadership signed documents of surrender? Or was it on 26 April 1865, when the leadership of the Army of Tennessee surrendered to federal forces? The last formal military surrender of any Confederate unit was that of the raiding vessel CSS Shenandoah, which surrendered to British authorities in Liverpool on 6 November 1865. Would that date be best? But military operations against partisan forces in the southern United States continued into the 1870s - and some of those partisan organizations still exist today, albeit in somewhat altered form.

Politically, President Andrew Johnson issued a proclamation declaring a end to the state of rebellion on 2 April 1866. One might choose that date instead. But economically, culturally, and politically, the American Civil War cast a longer shadow. In many ways, the South was still feeling the effects of Federal destruction of infrastructure into the 1930s. The Solid South, a relic of secession-era politics, persisted for a century. In the 1960s, American antisegregation activists repeatedly made claims to the effect that the Civil War was not yet over, and that they were continuing the work of those who fought against secession a hundred years before. It didn't end - it just mutated into a different form.

Claiming that the American Civil War ended in the spring of 1865 is like claiming that the Iraq War ended in the spring of 2003. You can certainly make an argument for it, but that argument is not objective and there are plenty of excellent reasons to argue against it. That's true of setting any end date for anything. It's more of a reflection of the person setting the end date, and the sort of point that that person wants to make, than it is a reflection of what actually happened.

Defining who 'wins' a mage-templar conflict might be awfully fraught. It may depend on what end date one chooses; maybe a few decades or centuries later, the losing side stages a comeback of some kind and tries to overthrow whatever system the current conflict leaves in place. Whether you call that a second war or a truce is entirely subjective. Maybe things change after the conflict without 'open war'. It's hard for me to imagine a scenario for any mage-templar conflict that leaves a system that can't and won't be destroyed somehow.

Take your precious Dalish elves. If somebody set the end date for Dalish-human conflict at the Orlesian invasion of the Dales, one might well throw up her hands and say "welp, humans won, it's over". Is it? The Dalish certainly don't seem to think so; plenty of clans seem to have some sort of revanche in mind, whether by force of arms or some other method. What if DA:I offers an opportunity for some group that adopts a Dalish political identity to seize some form of sovereignty in the Dales? Is it over then? What if some human country comes along a few years or decades later and conquers this new Dalish state?

[Althix]

it would be nice to have opportunity destroy both institutes and church as well.

[dragonflight288]

Kirkwall allowed City Elves to join the City Guard, and there's really nothing saying Elves can't join the Templar

 

Aveline allowed city-elves to join the guard. All indications previous to this say it's a completely new idea and never before practiced. 

[Xilizhra]

Periodization is a retroactively imposed intersubjective cognitive construct. It is not objective; it is not "wie es eigentlich gewesen".

When did the American Civil War end? Was it on 9 April 1865, when the Army of Northern Virginia's leadership signed documents of surrender? Or was it on 26 April 1865, when the leadership of the Army of Tennessee surrendered to federal forces? The last formal military surrender of any Confederate unit was that of the raiding vessel CSS Shenandoah, which surrendered to British authorities in Liverpool on 6 November 1865. Would that date be best? But military operations against partisan forces in the southern United States continued into the 1870s - and some of those partisan organizations still exist today, albeit in somewhat altered form.

Politically, President Andrew Johnson issued a proclamation declaring a end to the state of rebellion on 2 April 1866. One might choose that date instead. But economically, culturally, and politically, the American Civil War cast a longer shadow. In many ways, the South was still feeling the effects of Federal destruction of infrastructure into the 1930s. The Solid South, a relic of secession-era politics, persisted for a century. In the 1960s, American antisegregation activists repeatedly made claims to the effect that the Civil War was not yet over, and that they were continuing the work of those who fought against secession a hundred years before. It didn't end - it just mutated into a different form.

Claiming that the American Civil War ended in the spring of 1865 is like claiming that the Iraq War ended in the spring of 2003. You can certainly make an argument for it, but that argument is not objective and there are plenty of excellent reasons to argue against it. That's true of setting any end date for anything. It's more of a reflection of the person setting the end date, and the sort of point that that person wants to make, than it is a reflection of what actually happened.

Defining who 'wins' a mage-templar conflict might be awfully fraught. It may depend on what end date one chooses; maybe a few decades or centuries later, the losing side stages a comeback of some kind and tries to overthrow whatever system the current conflict leaves in place. Whether you call that a second war or a truce is entirely subjective. Maybe things change after the conflict without 'open war'. It's hard for me to imagine a scenario for any mage-templar conflict that leaves a system that can't and won't be destroyed somehow.

Take your precious Dalish elves. If somebody set the end date for Dalish-human conflict at the Orlesian invasion of the Dales, one might well throw up her hands and say "welp, humans won, it's over". Is it? The Dalish certainly don't seem to think so; plenty of clans seem to have some sort of revanche in mind, whether by force of arms or some other method. What if DA:I offers an opportunity for some group that adopts a Dalish political identity to seize some form of sovereignty in the Dales? Is it over then? What if some human country comes along a few years or decades later and conquers this new Dalish state?

Then allow me to clarify: I would enjoy seeing the primary "hot war" component of the overall conflict where both sides are fighting on more-or-less equal grounds to end in this game. Instances of conflict may well drag out beyond that, but let me put it this way: anything that's dramatic enough to be a major part of a DA game, I would like finished in this one.

[elyu]

I want it to be part of the main quest line and have a role as big as the three main quests in origins (broken circle and the two others i cant remember right now).

The way DA2 ended I think it would be stupid to not have the war play a large role.

[Lotion Soronarr]

Personally, I haven't seen a single elven templar since it's illegal for elves to arm themselves and train. 

 

That would mean there is a 0% population of elven Knight-Commanders and Knight-Captains. 

 

It doesn't matter if Gaider almost made one, that doesn't change the fact that he didn't, and there haven't been any elves that have been made templars that we've seen. 

 

It also doesn't change the fact that he directly confirmed that elves are indeed allowed to become templars.

DG wouldn't even plan for Evangeline to be a elf templar if it wasn't possible.

[TheKomandorShepard]

A little i just want chop mages and not have to deal with them then same with templars if they will try be tough then create new anti-magical orgaonisation and set new anti-magical laws and im happy as well my vault...

[Chari]

No conflict whatsoever please?
I'm sick of it. I'd rather have a story about elven rebels or dwarven culture... Or nugs. Even nugs are more interesting

[Mistic]

I just want the current war to be solved. I know it won't end the mage-templar problems (contrary to Eirene, I do think wars have an end; conflicts, on the other hand...), but if it drags out too much it will lose significance in a game perspective.

 

"DA:I - Veil Tears! And the Mage-Templar War!", "DA4 - The Tevinter Revolution! And more Mage-Templar War!", "DA5 - Attack of the Qunari! And enjoy Mage-Templar War 2.0, now with more nug abominations!", "DA6 - A New Blight! And... yeah, I suppose mages and templars are still killing each other..."