94 réponses à ce sujet

[TheWhitefire]

I don't know about playing the mysterious make up sorcerers known as Rouges, when you play a rogue often those chests and doors you can't unlock are like that because they require a macguffin or for you to reach a certain point in the narrative when they will become unlocked. For instance, in the City Elf origin quest you end up charging through the Arl of Denerim's estate. You can find the room where Anora will eventually be locked up, and if you try to open the door it will say "Not possible to open". This is because that door can only be opened by the mystical powers of Plot Device.

[Tayah]

No, I am not missing the point. Picking a class is a choice. The game gives all the classes enough equipment to get through the starting area of the game. In my opinion I would rather have no chests at all in the starting area, but one of the advantages of picking the rogue class is to open the chests or doors. The advantage of picking the mage class is that character has access to magic at the beginning. The advantage of the warrior class is the ability to wear the heavier armor and wield weapons that the beginning bad guys may drop where the rogue could not. The problem with DAO and DA2 is that not one of the starting companions was a rogue or a rogue that could pick locks. The starting companions could all be warriors then one could complain that the starting area enemies had magic users but my party had no mages at the beginning unless I make the main character a mage.

 

Many gamers feel compelled to open all the chests. I simply look at the best way to get out of the starting area with the equipment I can readily access.

Yes that is definitely the problem if you're restricting chests and doors to be opened by one class only and then don't provide a skilled companion of that class early on it can be frustrating. As is the fact that if you pick the mage class in Origins you can do a quest there to kill the spiders in the supply caves and there is a locked chest that you can not open as you're a mage in the mage only origin...   The area is not accessible during the broken circle quest so it literally makes no sense except as a taunt for players or an incentive to use mods. 

 

Yes I'm one of the gamers who feels compelled to open all chests... it may have something to do with my completionist nature ​. I would be okay with not being able to do so in warrior play throughs for their origin stories but the fact that when I reach Ostegar and gain a rogue who is apparently a pickpocket and a cutpurse I kind of expect him to be able to pick locks too and then I discover he can't so I still can't open chests... yeah it got annoying fast.

 

If you can recruit a capable rogue early on then it wouldn't be a big problem in a starting area available to all classes but if the area is restricted by class then please leave the locked chests for later on unless it's the rogue's starting point/tutorial. Or as Realzmaster says have no chests in the starting area at all. 

[9TailsFox]

I just must do this.

[Tayah]

I just must do this.

Since Rogue is my favourite X-man ever I like this. I don't know if this was aimed at me or the thread in general but if you're gonna throw this in when I rant or whatever I might have to start doing it more often. 

[pace675]

WTF dude...

always keep the pantaloons... 

If you get all 3 pantaloons you will get the most epic forge-able gear in the game. Dont dismiss the pantaloons!

[JimboGee]

I disagree. I prefer having content locked out to me because im not that class. it makes sense. However I would like the option to smash open the chest  if my strength is high enough.

[aTigerslunch]

I love Rogue, one of my favorite X-Men. (Glad they fixed that mess in DoFP. )

I start my games with rogue first play through usually and then a mage. Except in DA:O where I did start with a mage that time. I know this chests wont get touched at first, in Ostegar, I leveled that thief to get lockpicks once to go back before the ceremony if I can, and have done. Otherwise I force myself to forget it and come back another time.

The mage origin with locked chests didnt make much sense to me. If dont want someone messing with it then allow it to be just part of the background along with several other chests that just sit there. That one was confusing as a rogue never can start there.

[Gabdube]

One thing that annoyed me the most in both DA's was the fact that if I played a Mage or a Fighter I didn't have a Rogue in the party who could unlock those chests for the loot and XP.

 

Daveth was a Rogue Warden Initiate in the first Dragon Age and was unable to unlock any chests.

 

Hawkes party consisted of fighters and a mage unless you selected mage then it was 2 mages no rogues in the party to unlock the chests.

 

So I usually find myself playing a Rogue to unlock this stuff, What I would like is a rogue Companion at the beginning of DA:I who can unlock chests and disable traps in the start of the game even if said companion doesn't stay with the PC or at least till we reach our goal and are able to recruit Varric into the party, though to me that would limit my grouping.

 

I like Varric but I liked Isabella more for duel wielding 2 daggers can jump into stealth and pop up behind and crit an opponent, So who ever we end up with Rogue like ability's be nice to have a starting Rogue in group with lock picking and trap disabling ability's.

 

Not trying to be petty or anything just a minor annoyance at least for me seeing these chests I can't unlock all over the place unless I play a Rogue myself.

 

Thanks Bioware keep up the Incredible work!

Op, this is why the possibility of modding games is so important. So you can fix the little things that the devs didn't bother fixing because they thought that most people wouldn't care about it anyway (and they are probably right).

[Eralrik]

Last I heard modding the Frostbite Engine was going to be pretty tough, not to say some talented individules won't give it shot and try to mod it.

 

I'm sure it's to late in the game for Bioware to do any change's just hope they had a chance to read and listen to the fans.

[QueenPurpleScrap]

There is one other option. What about a potion that allows you to unlock one chest/door? Pre-Ostagar you could find a few here and there and decide whether to use them or save them. Then once you are a GW recruit you could purchase some from the quartermaster. You could still miss out based on what you do first (like if you don't find the potion before you destroy the spiders in the mage tower) but you aren't completely blocked out. It could still be tied to your cunning attribute. In effect, you are temporarily a rogue but if your cunning isn't high enough you still can't unlock the chest. And you only get one try per potion.

 

The traps just don't bother me as much, for some reason. Except if one of my people has invested in the trap-making skill then I feel they should be able to disarm the simpler traps.

[Kalamah]

I can't pay Origins unless my Warden is a rogue for the reasons others have said: too many locked things taunting me before I get to Lothering!  Well, that and my tendency to do an Alistair and set off traps by accident unless my Warden can detect them.

 

In DA2 I didn't mind much because there's only ONE chest I can't get into, in the beginning part. I also learned to adapt to using Varric to "scout" new areas for traps since he actually alerts me, whereas my rogue Hawke gives no warning before 'whoops, just ran right into that bleeping fire trap' happens. Plus, Varric doesn't need dex to wield other weapons and such, so I can put his points into cunning until it hits 40 and then dump the rest into dex/con/willpower.

 

As for DAI, I sure hope we won't need a rogue to get into things in the beginning part, or if we do, we'll get a rogue right off or soon after the start. As much as I loved rogues in Origins, DA2 made me love playing mages. Perhaps DAI will do a miracle and make me actually want to play a warrior and even favor it. Unlikely, but hey, it could happen.

[RustyW]

I can imagine, this would be frustrating, yet do not bioware want our choices to be meaningful? Hence the difference

If the chests had loads of good stuff to start off with I could understand the frustration.

The only bit I think is unfair from I have read, is that you could not go back? to get the chests, that is unfair.

[DarthLaxian]

Lock bash!! That's all I need. I don't care if the items have the potential to get damaged.

 

Yes I agree with you OP, it's quite annoying, particularly at the very beginning before you can even get any rogues in the party.

 

 

Mages don't bash things - we do have magic (meaning: give me an unlock spell - or let me melt or freeze the lock in order to destroy it and open the chest )

 

greetings LAX

[Lady Luminous]

I especially hated that if I didn't recruit Liliana and didn't play a rogue I was stuck for like a third of the game without Zevran and then when I did get him he has no skill points! Like what the heck.

 

Lelianna in Lothering has 2 points, and Zev has none? How does that make any sense.

 

So I spent about half the game not being able to unlock anything and then deciding it's not worth it to go back through all those dungeons.  

[Lady Luminous]

Mages don't bash things - we do have magic (meaning: give me an unlock spell - or let me melt or freeze the lock in order to destroy it and open the chest )

 

Alohomora? 

[Ulnarv]

It may be a bit low of me to mention this, but Daveth was in fact able to unlock some of the chests in Ostagar... (He has 15 Cunning so he can unlock 5XP locks) 

[Magdalena11]

It may be a bit low of me to mention this, but Daveth was in fact able to unlock some of the chests in Ostagar... (He has 15 Cunning so he can unlock 5XP locks) 

If you put the guildmaster's belt and dace amulet on him you can boost his cunning enough to open the 10XP locks.  

 

As I mentioned in the other thread, making the rogue class optional could be compared to making combat optional.  That way players who didn't want to bring along a companion whose only purpose in the group is to look good in armor wouldn't be forced to do so, since the fights could be opted out of.

[Rosey]

As far as I remember, there's ONE locked chest in DA2 before you get any rogues (if you're not one). And as far as I believe, the locked chest and the book on the ground share an exp pool -- so if you're not a rogue you get experience from the book, and if you ARE a rogue you get that experience from the chest instead.I'm Okay with that, because you're not actually missing out on anything. Except maybe the junk that you could sell, but I think at most it's like a 2c difference

 

One of these years I want one chest.. JUST ONE... and when you open it it gives you like 5g.... and if you CANT open it then X-mob in the starting zone will drop an item that sells for that much. And it's interchangeable so x-mob DOESN'T drop it if you opened the chest. Which we would eventually figure out -- but can you IMAGINE how much raging would be had till someone finally goes "Uh guys? you get that 5g either way"

[Magdalena11]

I don't remember the locked chest in the spider cave from the mage origin, but there's more I don't remember every day.  I wonder if it is possible to return to the spider cave after Lily is recruited.

[Klystron]

Most of BW's pre-DA games had a "chime of opening" you could buy at some point, and it's already been pointed out that wizards/sorcerors had a knock spell.

At mid-level I would get really annoyed when my mage spent his only knock spell on a door or chest, only to find it was a one-way door or a chest that required a key from the level boss. I eventually learned to try bashing briefly (the un-openable ones would resist all damage), or put one point into the open lock skill so I could find out the DC first before using up a spell. 

 

For the DA games I have always, repeat always, installed some sort of mod or cheat to bash or otherwise open locks.  I did resent the locked chests in the early DA:O areas, it was only later that I learned they didn't contain anything important.

 

Traps were&are much more of a problem.  Personally I don't like playing rogues and have resented being forced to take one along (though Varric and Izzy weren't so bad).  I mean WTF, my mage/wizard wasn't smart enough to figure out a trap?  Or just set it off from a distance with a low-level damage spell? 

[Eveangaline]

I would actually just like if every class could disable traps or unlock chest to make the game "fair" I guess. There are no other class specific obstacles, why must chest and traps be class specific. Why not tie the ability to unlock chest or disarm traps to the player's cunning skill in general for all classes. I mean cunning is basically a character's intelligence perse, so why must only a rogue be able to unlock chest?  

 

We've seen mage specific obstacles in the demo with mages being able to fix a broken bridge. So there are now other class specific ones.

 

Honestly though I don't see why rogues not being able to heal like mages or tank like warriors somehow didn't count as them not having obstacles. I don't really see the difference between in combat or out of combat bonuses to the classes.

[Sarcastic Tasha]

I'd settle for not having to manually switch to my rogue to open chests. Mass Effect 1 did it where your paty had a collective "open junk up" stat that was based on everyone together and would let you open up locked containers without having to switch to garrus or tali. If isabela says "i could do that for you" then why not just have her do it?

In mass effect it's not possible to switch to a companion which actually really bugs me because if Shepard falls in battle it's mission failure (why does no one else know how to use medi gel?).

I actually like to hear a companion offering to open a chest. I dunno why but I like those repetitive comments. Plus it's funny when sometimes Zev offers but then it turns out he can't open it!


I do hate having to leave a chest locked. Also hate accidentally stepping on a trap when I've got a rogue on the party that could have disarmed it. Though it did make me laugh when Leliana shouted "trap ahead" then proceeded to run straight into the trip wire and was knocked out by the resulting explosion.

[Icy Magebane]

We've seen mage specific obstacles in the demo with mages being able to fix a broken bridge. So there are now other class specific ones.

 

Honestly though I don't see why rogues not being able to heal like mages or tank like warriors somehow didn't count as them not having obstacles. I don't really see the difference between in combat or out of combat bonuses to the classes.

Combat abilities tend to be tied directly to the attributes of the character in question, thus a warrior with high constitution absorbs more damage, but a rogue with high dexterity dodges more often.  Out of combat class bonuses are fine so long as they obey logic.  So far I haven't heard any logical reason why a barbarian won't attempt to break down a locked wooden door if they want to know what's behind it.

[Magdalena11]

Combat abilities tend to be tied directly to the attributes of the character in question, thus a warrior with high constitution absorbs more damage, but a rogue with high dexterity dodges more often.  Out of combat class bonuses are fine so long as they obey logic.  So far I haven't heard any logical reason why a barbarian won't attempt to break down a locked wooden door if they want to know what's behind it.

I agree that if the object in question is a locked door and the noise of bashing it or condition of the door afterward wasn't a consideration, there would indeed be no reason a warrior couldn't do that.  Remember Dwyn's house in Redcliffe?  Non-rogues had the option to kick it in and that was cool.

 

In addition to mages being able to use magic to modify their environment, I suspect that having the services of a mage available is going to be important for characters that want to modify their equipment.  I can't remember how I got that impression, though.  

 

As far as mods go, I hope that people who want to be given the option to bend the rules can have it.  I personally think it detracts from the experience of designing a unique character, but as long as I get the option not to have a lock-bash feature in my game, why should I care if other people like it?   I guess it's like the overpowered weapons and armor mods.  I'm a total klutz with hack-and-slash button mashing and used them extensively to make combat go away sooner.  Now that I'm getting into strategy and character builds, I wish I hadn't used them because I might have found out combat can be fun sooner.

[Realmzmaster]

Most of BW's pre-DA games had a "chime of opening" you could buy at some point, and it's already been pointed out that wizards/sorcerors had a knock spell.

At mid-level I would get really annoyed when my mage spent his only knock spell on a door or chest, only to find it was a one-way door or a chest that required a key from the level boss. I eventually learned to try bashing briefly (the un-openable ones would resist all damage), or put one point into the open lock skill so I could find out the DC first before using up a spell. 

 

For the DA games I have always, repeat always, installed some sort of mod or cheat to bash or otherwise open locks.  I did resent the locked chests in the early DA:O areas, it was only later that I learned they didn't contain anything important.

 

Traps were&are much more of a problem.  Personally I don't like playing rogues and have resented being forced to take one along (though Varric and Izzy weren't so bad).  I mean WTF, my mage/wizard wasn't smart enough to figure out a trap?  Or just set it off from a distance with a low-level damage spell? 

 

It is not that the warrior or mage is not smart enough. Disarming traps requires both smarts and skill. It is learning about the different types of traps or locks possible.

 

You do not like bringing rogues along. I prefer parties without mages.  What happens if a chest in DAI is warded by magic which only a mage can dispel. That would mean that every party would have to have a mage if some of the chests are warded. In DAI mages will be able to magically fix obstacles like broken bridges. That means that a mage will be required in the party.

 

Therefore the warrior or rogue should have access to ways to bypass the ward or bridge, but by DA lore they cannot do so since it may require magic to remove the ward or fix the bridge. So that becomes unfair to the party that did not bring a mage. 

 

Using a low level damage spell is fine if you are setting off a trap on a door to blow the door out. It is not good for setting off a trap on a chest without damaging the objects inside the chest by setting off the trap. For example what if the trap in the chest is an explosive? How do you use a spell or bash open the trap without destroying the contents and/or damaging the party? 

 

A barbarian breaking down a door is fine. The reason the barbarian may not break it down is to not alarm whoever or whatever may be behind the door.