You do not like bringing rogues along. I prefer parties without mages. What happens if a chest in DAI is warded by magic which only a mage can dispel. That would mean that every party would have to have a mage if some of the chests are warded.
Assuming you get XP from killing the creature, what would be the incentive then for opening the chest? And if both give XP, you've just recreated the problem on a smaller scale.One of these years I want one chest.. JUST ONE... and when you open it it gives you like 5g.... and if you CANT open it then X-mob in the starting zone will drop an item that sells for that much. And it's interchangeable so x-mob DOESN'T drop it if you opened the chest. Which we would eventually figure out -- but can you IMAGINE how much raging would be had till someone finally goes "Uh guys? you get that 5g either way"
More accurately, it would mean that parties without mages would get slightly less treasure.
Which is the same as not having a rogue to open chests or doors, the party gets less treasure. That appears to be the basic complaint.
Less treasure I can get by with. I'm concerned about anything (say a bridge that must be raised, or a trap that 1-shots me) that might be game-breaking if I'm trying to solo the game on my 4th playthrough. No class should be completely indispensible, but it's fine if there are significant benefits to having them present.
May I propose something (tho it's probably too late for DAI) :
Tie the "penalties" for not having a certain class to the difficulty level.
Less treasure I can get by with. I'm concerned about anything (say a bridge that must be raised, or a trap that 1-shots me) that might be game-breaking if I'm trying to solo the game on my 4th playthrough. No class should be completely indispensible, but it's fine if there are significant benefits to having them present.
May I propose something (tho it's probably too late for DAI) :
Tie the "penalties" for not having a certain class to the difficulty level.
Take heart - if the core game is 100 hours or so and you'll be doing it on playthrough 4 there will probably be mods by then. And you'll know your way around the game-breakers. Maybe that bridge repair is the shortcut and you'll be able to get around if you take the long way, slogging through uncharted territory and at risk of attack from demons, bears and spiders. Your rogue or warrior will get all kinds of crazy combat instead of the bridge. And your mage who could have fixed the bridge might decide to go around anyway to clean up on the combat as well. No penalty for the non-mage and a little bonus for the mage. There are different ways of looking at it.
Edit: Pretty sure except on insane difficulty there's not going to be any 1-shot trap.
Modifié par Magdalena11, 25 juillet 2014 - 11:08 .
Which is the same as not having a rogue to open chests or doors, the party gets less treasure. That appears to be the basic complaint.
Take heart - if the core game is 100 hours or so and you'll be doing it on playthrough 4 there will probably be mods by then. And you'll know your way around the game-breakers. Maybe that bridge repair is the shortcut and you'll be able to get around if you take the long way, slogging through uncharted territory and at risk of attack from demons, bears and spiders. Your rogue or warrior will get all kinds of crazy combat instead of the bridge. And your mage who could have fixed the bridge might decide to go around anyway to clean up on the combat as well. No penalty for the non-mage and a little bonus for the mage. There are different ways of looking at it.
Edit: Pretty sure except on insane difficulty there's not going to be any 1-shot trap.
But there is a penalty because the non-mage cannot get the bonus that the mage receives. The mage is able to do both and probably get experience points for fixing the bridge.
The thing is, I find it hard to believe that there will be an outcry if money and exp are easier to earn than they have been in the past... if DA:I provides us with alternative ways to become rich and powerful, then no player will be obligated to take anyone of any class anywhere. At that point, the only people who will object will be those who simply must do everything due to some kind of psychological compulsion...
I was saying there was no penalty because if the goal is to fix a bridge with magic or obtain every piece of loot in the game, a player can be or bring the appropriate class. If the goal is to get past an obstacle, that can probably done another way and still advance the plot. I don't think making the choice to not utilize all your resources should be rewarded as much as making good use of them would be.
The thing is, I find it hard to believe that there will be an outcry if money and exp are easier to earn than they have been in the past... if DA:I provides us with alternative ways to become rich and powerful, then no player will be obligated to take anyone of any class anywhere. At that point, the only people who will object will be those who simply must do everything due to some kind of psychological compulsion...
You mean like some of the posters in this thread not counting the other threads on this subject. That compulsion is like the Force, It is very strong in some gamers.
I was saying there was no penalty because if the goal is to fix a bridge with magic or obtain every piece of loot in the game, a player can be or bring the appropriate class. If the goal is to get past an obstacle, that can probably done another way and still advance the plot. I don't think making the choice to not utilize all your resources should be rewarded as much as making good use of them would be.
The OP's point is that locked chests in starting areas require a rogue to open. For example the first chest in DA2. If we take you point then the party is being rewarded for having a rogue in the party. It does not stop non-rogue parties from achieving the object which is to get to a ship which advances the plot..
The whole point of this thread is to either have lockpicking as a skill all can use, have ways for other classes to open chests (locks etc), have no locked chest in starting areas or be given a rogue earlier in the game.
Otherwise some gamers feel that the party without a rogue is being penalized.
Since I did seem to go OT, I see no reason why starting areas unique to a certain class should be given challenges they can't overcome. I, personally, feel that starting areas shared by all classes should have challenges and rewards for each class.
DA2 starting chest was a tutorial to the mechanics and the other plot driven. Won't speak for DAO, it was a mess. Daveth at least should be able to unlock.
DA2 starting chest was a tutorial to the mechanics and the other plot driven. Won't speak for DAO, it was a mess. Daveth at least should be able to unlock.
Daveth was a terrible thief... he also had no pickpocket skills, which is probably why Duncan caught him and decided to put him through the Joining. Wasn't it also impossible for him to gain a level, so you couldn't even add lockpicking to him later? Such a tease...
So basically gamers want a bash lock/door or knock spell so they do not have to suffer the consequences of their decision to not have a rogue in the party. How is that any different from making the decision not to have a warrior or mage in the party? You suffer or benefit from that decision which I thought is part of role playing.
So if the characters you want as companions are not rogues that is a decision you made regarding party makeup. Part of role playing is dealing with limitations.
The way that the bash or knock spell worked was that the door or chest had a strength (or percentage chance to open) assigned to it. If the character's strength was to low the door/chest could not be bashed. If the chest contained fragile items there was a percentage chance they would break. If the level of the caster of the knock spell was not high enough to overcome the strength of the door or chest it stayed locked. There was also a percentage chance that the lock would jam on the door or chest making it impossible to open until the caster leveled up and the knock spell was strengthen.
Let's say that Bioware allows any character to lock pick using a lock pick skill. The gamer would have to put points into getting increasing levels of the skill to overcome more difficult locks. The gamer is still in effect creating a character to specifically open locks in effect creating a rogue like character without the other benefits or detriments of being a rogue. Also note that putting points in that skill must come at the expense of not putting points in another skill which may or may not gimp that character's potential.
I wholeheartedly agree.
if you don't take a rogue with to open those locks, DEAL WITH IT. It called choice & consequence.
This is why I'm a PC gamer : mods.
Lock bash/lock blast FTW.
FYI, I just started a new game with the Mage origin. I just arrived in Ostagar and nowhere in the Circle did I run into a locked chest. I am playing this on a PS3. I can't remember if any earlier mage playthroughs had this problem so I can't say whether or not it's been patched.
I remember a mod for Oblivion that allowed your character to force-open a locked chest if you didn't have lock picks in your inventory (or you could manually attempt to force-open it even if you had lock picks but didn't want to use them). You needed just enough strength I believe, but could also use magic attacks (Destruction school). I think that only the most powerful bows + arrows combination (enchanted arrows especially) also worked for archer characters.
In Dragon Age 2, if I recall correctly, there's a locked chest right before the fight against the Ogre (talk about staring area chests). What's the point of starting area locked chests other than teasing? "HAHA! I'm a locked chest, you're Level 2, keep looking at me you sucker! HAHAHAHAHA!", ok... ? I don't mind if there's a locked chest in another higher level area say... once you reach something like level 10 or something like that, sure... I can just walk past (whilst trying to ignore the sense of urgency in trying to figure out a way to open the damn thing anyway, merely because it's there). But yeah, locked chests in starting areas do irritate me.
Now, to be honest, locked chests to start with - in my opinion - are overdone in video games and dates back to days of video games so old that I wasn't even born yet (I think they had those in text-based adventure games). I mean DA:I is not a very figurative-heavy 2D game that relies on your interpretation of everything, what happens on screen also has a good sense of literalism... the damn chest is there, it's a chest, it's locked and I have a massive Final Fantasy-style Greatword and IT'S ON FIRE... I can KILL DRAGONS with that thing... BUT... oh man... oh no you cannot force-open (bash the living crap out of) a wooden locked chest with it. I mean, dude get real, it's a locked chest for crying out loud, keep killing those squishy dragons instead!
It tends to break a certain degree of immersion, just saying.
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