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[Han Shot First]

Where are people getting the idea that "everyone" is bisexual and "no one" is straight or gay? 

 

Last time I checked, we are only talking about LI's, which account for about 4-5 people per game.  That's it.  That's the extent of it.  It's not doing anything to change the sexualities of anyone who isn't an LI.

 

All told, we have had 9 LI's in Dragon Age and only 6 of them are bisexual (none are gay, I'd like to point out).  Considering that we've met, literally, hundreds of characters and we're talking about 6 (yes, there are some bisexual and gay NPCs too, but that number is marginal).

 

People are blowing this out of proportion, I think. 

 

No one actually said that Bioware made everyone bi in previous games.

 

Archer said that he or she isn't a fan of the 2/2/2 model as well as a model where everyone is bi. Sandal replied that maybe everyone in Thedas is bi. Sandal was speculating and Archer was stating that he or she didn't care for Bioware going in either of those two directions. Neither of the two stated that it was something that was part of the established canon for the world.

 

As for me, I was referring only to future games like DA:I.

[daveliam]

@ Jensaari:

 

Yeah, I get what you are saying about playersexuality, but I'm just not convinced that Fenris and Merrill (and even less so, Anders) were playersexual.  You have no more evidence to support that Merrill is straight with a male player and lesbian with a female player than I do to support that she is bisexual with both.  Perhaps they were intended to change sexuality based on player choice.  I just find it odd to have 2 (maybe three if you ignore the devs statements about Anders being bisexual from conceptualization) that are playersexual and the rest in the same game have defined sexualities (Isabela and Sebastian, certainly, and Anders if you choose not to ignore the devs statements about his sexuality).

 

If there is no evidence to support either playersexuality OR bisexuality and the rest of the LIs are not playersexual, it makes more sense to assume that Fenris and Merrill are bisexual, but just less vocal about their sexuality than Isabela and Zevran. 

[Han Shot First]

Right, because when I play as a Male Hawke in DA2, Isabela totally loses her interest in females, even though many of her lines suggest that she enjoys a woman's company also. 

 

If you play DA:O with a male Warden and hardened Leliana in tow, Leliana can join the Warden and Isabela in a threesome. I don't think there is any question that Isabela is bisexual rather than playersexual. 

[AresKeith]

Yes really.

No, while there are some who claims they don't care at all others like myself don't care on the level as others do

It's a blanket statement

[Maria Caliban]

Why should she? Merrill  is hinted to have a crush on Hawke in some banter early game and she does have an interest in the 'dirty' jokes, (And she does express interest in Qunari physice if she is unromanced), but all in all she is a fairly non-sexual character unlike the hyper sexual Isabella.
 
Not all bi people flaunts their sexuality. Some only openly shows their interest in one gender and some a just shy or not very sexual at all and don't show interest in anyone. Heck you don't have to have slept with both genders to be bi sexual - you don't have to have slept with anyone at all. Isabella is a very, very sexual person but that is not a defining trait for bi-sexuality.

I feel the need to agree here. There are many bisexual people who are single and not looking, or who are in monogamous long term relationships. You might know them for years without realizing they're bisexual.

Being bisexual doesn't mean you're obliged to constantly talk about your sexual orientation or express desire for men and women.

[Cainhurst Crow]

Anders is completely player sexual, why else would he only have a relationship with karl if you play a guy?

More to the point, I wouldn't mine play sexual characters if it didn't feel like the main character was defining every character in their party from their interests to what sexuality they were born with. Maybe some party members moving on with their lives to find people they like as well would have helped the problem a bit. Isabela and Oghren was like the only characters who actually seemed to try and do this, and both of them don't get brought up in a lot of these discussions because of that.

It'd feel better to have them playsexual if it didn't feel so much like a bunch of creepers waiting for your LI to die so they can get a taste of that player character love.

[Han Shot First]

This hardly seems like the most natural way to look at things. If there are N mages out of a total of nine companions, no one's going to look at that and think, "Well Bioware must be saying that N out of every 9 people in Thedas is a mage." I don't see how things are any different if you have four bisexual companions.

 

I was replying to comments speculating about whether all of Thedas is bisexual. To be clear I'm not referring to just having four bisexual LIs, I'm referring to DA:I specifically establishing as part of the canon that all of Thedas is bisexual.

[Ieldra]

Zyree: The problem is, that in a game like dragon age, or mass effect, the collected info you gain from npcs helps built his, her or its lore.

 

A different protagonist can be a parallel universe when it comes to the protagonist, but it´s the same when it comes to the companions.

 

For instance, if Garrus give us a piece of info from his past when you have a renegade talk with him, and another info with you use a paragon, or another info if you´re romancing him, all 3 infos are part of his lore.

I don't agree with this. I think it is legitimate to write a multithreaded story like those we see in games in a way that information you can only get in one playthrough does not exist or apply in the other, i.e. that each playthrough creates a self-contained universe where characters are somewhat different and even contradict their alternate versions.  It is also legitimate to play that way if the story isn't explicitly written for that style of experience. The problem is that this compartmentalization takes a lot of mental effort. I would be willing to make that effort if I considered the benefit worth it. For instance, I've used it to tune out character development I hated applied to a character I loved. The thing is that I don't consider the ability to romance anyone with anyone desirable in the first place,and even less at the price of making an extra effort at compartmentalization. I think it feels very artificial if you can romance anyone with anyone. It felt artificial in DA2.

[sandalisthemaker]

No, while there are some who claims they don't care at all others like myself don't care on the level as others do

It's a blanket statement

 

It doesn't really matter. The point still stands. People who claim not to like the romances and think they are pandering and fanservice are the ones that are against playersexuality. Many of them even go so far as to say that DAO and ME did it best, with only a straight and a bi option and no gay option. They want restrictions.

 

And if they want restrictions, they are free to place them on themselves.

[Han Shot First]

It doesn't really matter. The point still stands. People who claim not to like the romances and think they are pandering and fanservice are the ones that are against playersexuality. Many of them even go so far as to say that DAO and ME did it best, with only straight and bi options and no gay options.  They want restrictions.

 

And if they want restrictions, they are free to place them on themselves.

 

I think you're wrong in characterizing everyone who doesn't care for a playersexual model as being someone with no interest in the romance aspect of the games. I'm against the playersexual model, and I've had the player character romance a companion in every Bioware game I've played thus far. I'm certainly not unique in that either.

[wright1978]

Anders is completely player sexual, why else would he only have a relationship with karl if you play a guy?
 

 

He still had the relationship with Karl, he just doesn't want to confide that info to a fem Hawke. Not every Bi-sexual has to be as overt about it as Isabela

[Sylvianus]

I might prefer the playersexual thing, just so that my friends and everyone can be happy. I do feel bad for having that opinion though, since I wasn't convinced in DAII. I Hope I will in DA:I. 

[geth47]

I like romances, and all ther more reason to want restrictions and complexity to them. 

 

Playersexual is the same of bisexual. It means that the particular npc has no problems with being with people from either genre. 

 

It degrades them, as well as your choices, since you don´t even need to investigate that character in order to find out not only that he or she is bi, but also that a romance with you is a possibility.

 

What are you guys doing with rpgs in which choices should matter, if you can´t even deal with the idea of being rejected or hitting a closed door? 

 

For all intents and purposes, all NPCs being bi is the same as everyone being bi in a game. 

 

To pursuit a relationship with character X or Y should be no different than evolving to specialization A or B. Depending on the way your character was built, this could be impossible to achieve.

 

I´m starting to think rpgs were better when they were made thinking of the white male hetero as the core public. Some hysteric fanboys and girls simply can´t cope with the fact that freedom demands restriction and choices that matter open as well as need to CLOSED certain doors. That´s why we don´t haver berseker archers, or biotic geth, or mage dwarfs. 

 

Also, story-wise, if a certain character is able to have a romance with a player-controlled character of any gender, this is definitive, concrete proof that the character is bi. It becomes part of his or her lore.  

 

If I want to have medium protection in ME1, I can´t play as biotic. If I want heavy armor, I have to go with the soldier class. I love being able to use charge, and I also love to use cloak (with snippers or shotguns), but I can not cloak nor use charge in the same built. And I don´t think this should ever be changed. 

 

Some people claim to be pro-diversity, when they are actually very much against it. True diversity comes with acknowledging and representing differences, and letting they play you. Being able to romance any character in a game, with any character built, with no regards to your genre or history is simply a sick reflexion of a twisted and troubled personality filled with insecurities and fear. This is not helping the rpg genre nor enriching it.  

 

This whole agenda is appealing only for a weak minded insecure generation unable to deal with rejection, responsibility, consequences, careful planning with strategy to reach a goal, limitations of any sort, or even the notion that they can be rejected by someone based on their gender. Really sad times. 

[Uhh.. Jonah]

He still had the relationship with Karl, he just doesn't want to confide that info to a fem Hawke. Not every Bi-sexual has to be as overt about it as Isabela

 

Took the words right out of my mouth. I guess every companion is "playersexual" just because they're not flaunting around their Bisexuality. 

[Cainhurst Crow]

He still had the relationship with Karl, he just doesn't want to confide that info to a fem Hawke. Not every Bi-sexual has to be as overt about it as Isabela

That's a wonderful message to tell. Hide secrets from your loved one and be ashamed of your lifestyle till the day you die and beyond.

Great advice for any struggling people out there trying to figure themselves out. Not that anders if much of a rolemodel to begin with. He only tells people things to get what he wants.

In truth, If I didn't believe bioware incapable of it, I'd say this was meant to be foreshadowing of his betrayal and a clue of his deceptive nature.

[geth47]

"I think you're wrong in characterizing everyone who doesn't care for a playersexual model as being someone with no interest in the romance aspect of the games. I'm against the playersexual model, and I've had the player character romance a companion in every Bioware game I've played thus far. I'm certainly not unique in that either."

 

I actually do a separate play focusing on each different romance. So far, the only ones I never tried were a faithful Liara from me1 to 3, and jacob. I did watch jacob scenes on youtube, and it was the only one I find to be dissapointing because of the way it ends in ME3. 

[CENIC]

I wouldn't mind 2/2/2. I'm of the opinion that your sexuality is a part of who you are, so a character will feel more "real" and grounded if they are written with a set sexuality in mind that can be referenced when appropriate.

 

At the same time, I can understand being disappointed/upset if you are attracted to a character who isn't attracted to you. I also understand that making all romance paths available to both genders has technical benefits for the developers.

 

I'd like Bioware to take a crack at 2/2/2 in a future Dragon Age title, but I trust their judgement.

[sandalisthemaker]

I think you're wrong in characterizing everyone who doesn't care for a playersexual model as being someone with no interest in the romance aspect of the games. I'm against the playersexual model, and I've had the player character romance a companion in every Bioware game I've played thus far. I'm certainly not unique in that either.

 

I'm not saying everyone who doesn't like playersexuality doesn't like romance.

 

I'm saying people who routinely come into these threads claiming not to like romance are often the ones who are against playersexuality. My point is if they claim not to care, then why are they so opposed to players not having restrictions.

[AresKeith]

It doesn't really matter. The point still stands. People who claim not to like the romances and think they are pandering and fanservice are the ones that are against playersexuality. Many of them even go so far as to say that DAO and ME did it best, with only a straight and a bi option and no gay option. They want restrictions.
 
And if they want restrictions, they are free to place them on themselves.

 
You're still generalizing people that are against playersexual are the other who don't like the romance content
 

I'm not saying everyone who doesn't like playersexuality doesn't like romance.
 
I'm saying people who routinely come into these threads claiming not to like romance are often the ones who are against playersexuality. My point is if they claim not to care, then why are they so opposed to players not having restrictions.

But we aren't talking about those people, sure they shouldn't if they don't care but making generalizing statements don't help

[Uhh.. Jonah]

That's a wonderful message to tell. Hide secrets from your loved one and be ashamed of your lifestyle till the day you die and beyond.

Great advice for any struggling people out there trying to figure themselves out. Not that anders if much of a rolemodel to begin with. He only tells people things to get what he wants.

In truth, If I didn't believe bioware incapable of it, I'd say this was meant to be foreshadowing of his betrayal and a clue of his deceptive nature.

Just because you don't believe in his choices does not mean that he isn't bisexual.

[Ryzaki]

That's a wonderful message to tell. Hide secrets from your loved one and be ashamed of your lifestyle till the day you die and beyond.

Great advice for any struggling people out there trying to figure themselves out. Not that anders if much of a rolemodel to begin with. He only tells people things to get what he wants.

In truth, If I didn't believe bioware incapable of it, I'd say this was meant to be foreshadowing of his betrayal and a clue of his deceptive nature.

 

You're taking the character that was demon possessed, lied to and used Hawke to blew up a religious building that probably housed children inside as someone with a decent message to tell? O_o

 

Also Anders never even gives Hawke his real name. It's hardly the first thing he's lied about.

[sandalisthemaker]

 
You're still generalizing people that are against playersexual are the other who don't like the romance content
 

But we aren't talking about those people

 

But I was. There have been a few in this very thread.

[Blackrising]

I like romances, and all ther more reason to want restrictions and complexity to them. 

 

Playersexual is the same of bisexual. It means that the particular npc has no problems with being with people from either genre. 

 

It degrades them, as well as your choices, since you don´t even need to investigate that character in order to find out not only that he or she is bi, but also that a romance with you is a possibility.

 

What are you guys doing with rpgs in which choices should matter, if you can´t even deal with the idea of being rejected or hitting a closed door? 

 

For all intents and purposes, all NPCs being bi is the same as everyone being bi in a game. 

 

To pursuit a relationship with character X or Y should be no different than evolving to specialization A or B. Depending on the way your character was built, this could be impossible to achieve.

 

I´m starting to think rpgs were better when they were made thinking of the white male hetero as the core public. Some hysteric fanboys and girls simply can´t cope with the fact that freedom demands restriction and choices that matter open as well as need to CLOSED certain doors. That´s why we don´t haver berseker archers, or biotic geth, or mage dwarfs. 

 

Also, story-wise, if a certain character is able to have a romance with a player-controlled character of any gender, this is definitive, concrete proof that the character is bi. It becomes part of his or her lore.  

 

If I want to have medium protection in ME1, I can´t play as biotic. If I want heavy armor, I have to go with the soldier class. I love being able to use charge, and I also love to use cloak (with snippers or shotguns), but I can not cloak nor use charge in the same built. And I don´t think this should ever be changed. 

 

Some people claim to be pro-diversity, when they are actually very much against it. True diversity comes with acknowledging and representing differences, and letting they play you. Being able to romance any character in a game, with any character built, with no regards to your genre or history is simply a sick reflexion of a twisted and troubled personality filled with insecurities and fear. This is not helping the rpg genre nor enriching it.  

 

This whole agenda is appealing only for a weak minded insecure generation unable to deal with rejection, responsibility, consequences, careful planning with strategy to reach a goal, limitations of any sort, or even the notion that they can be rejected by someone based on their gender. Really sad times. 

 

Oh dear, where to start.

I suggest you work on your word choices. As it stands, your post is incredibly insulting. Calling bisexuality 'degrading' will get you verbally torn apart very VERY fast.

[MrMrPendragon]

If they were all hetero would you complain?
 
Maybe all companions are bi. Maybe that's just how Thedas is. 
 
BioWare determines how things "Should be." Not you or anyone else.

It's not about if the companion is bi or hetero or whatever. It's about what makes sense for the overall character of the companion. I'm not advocating for an all-hetero Thedas. I'm just saying it's a little too convenient to have everyone in the same sexual orientation, bi or hetero.

Companions should be looked at as characters of Thedas first, and LI's second. And like I said, if the character is better as bi, then make him bi. If he's better hetero, then make him hetero.

And if we're talking about "Bioware determines how things should be" which renders all our points meaningless, then why the hell are we even discussing this? I gave my opinion, and I said why I took that stance.

[Weltea]

Anders is completely player sexual, why else would he only have a relationship with karl if you play a guy?

More to the point, I wouldn't mine play sexual characters if it didn't feel like the main character was defining every character in their party from their interests to what sexuality they were born with. Maybe some party members moving on with their lives to find people they like as well would have helped the problem a bit. Isabela and Oghren was like the only characters who actually seemed to try and do this, and both of them don't get brought up in a lot of these discussions because of that.

It'd feel better to have them playsexual if it didn't feel so much like a bunch of creepers waiting for your LI to die so they can get a taste of that player character love.

A) I'm gonna skip the part where Anders' banter makes it pretty unlikely that anything as normal as a relationship was possible in the Cirlce and skip to 'Where's your prove that there was nothing between Anders and Karl if Hawke's female? Just because he doesn't mention it?

The LI's are all demiromantic and  almost all of them could be considered demisexual. Use demisexual instead of playersexual,there, problem solved.

C) Not everyone needs to find a romance partner,however Isabela and Oghren are NOT the only ones who do. Aveline gets married and Fenris hooks up with Isabela.

D) Huh?