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Do You Find Awakening Too Easy?


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#1
Lucy Glitter

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I had to switch to hard for it to be on the level that it was on normal in Origins, for me. I enjoy a good boss battle, and on normal, they were just... so easy. Aside from The Mother (who just about blows my rage metre) the rest of the boss battles are just... so easy. Barely any pausing. Even the Ghost Dragon... thing was so easy!

 

Do you reckon it was the OP abilities that were introduced? I know archery is ridiculously OP but i'm not sure about the others. Or did they just make it easier? I know Origins was easier on Xbox than on PC...

 

Really, usually I have games on easy because I don't care about combat, I play for the story and visuals... but I love pausing, planning and utilising the tactics in Origins, much like BG. It says a lot when a game can encourage me to use my brain for the combat in it.



#2
caradoc2000

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Awakening is definitely easier than Origins - partly because of the new abilities, and partly because games tend to become easier at higher character levels.


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#3
Guest_StreetMagic_*

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Yeah. I would say the game already gets pretty easier towards late middle/end of DAO. Kind of a problem with many Bioware games.


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#4
DrBlingzle

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Yeah, I put the difficulty up to hard. Its probably due to your character having loads of abilities but you would of thought bioware would of taken that into account and adjusted the difficulty accordingly.  


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#5
Jaison1986

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The DLC is relatively easy if you play an imported warden, but then again I micromanage the team all the time. The mother  and the architect were surely one of the hardest fights, but only because I had no mage in the team for story reasons. But I also remember throwing an fit with the Inferno golem boss, but only because I didn't knew the lost needed to taken out as quickly as possible.


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#6
luna1124

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I agree, if you import your origins character, it is a lot easier, even on hard or nightmare. I created and played a new Commander once and died in the first encounter with the darkspawn on the road :P


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#7
Lucy Glitter

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Yeah. I would say the game already gets pretty easier towards late middle/end of DAO. Kind of a problem with many Bioware games.

 

Hollee heyzeus you are right, I never realised that. 

 

I agree, if you import your origins character, it is a lot easier, even on hard or nightmare. I created and played a new Commander once and died in the first encounter with the darkspawn on the road :P

 

I'll remember to do a playthrough with an Orlesian, ty. 



#8
Mike3207

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So question about the Warden Commnander-if you take a Orlesian Warden into Awakening and do all the DLC with him/her, is he /she the one that disappears rather than the Hero of Ferelden in DA2?

 

It is a bit easy. The only time you really have trouble with the fights will be the Children, the Architect, and the Mother.



#9
cJohnOne

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I like the difficulty settings on Hard because I am too lazy to use lyrium potions and too lazy to set up my health poultices until the very end of the game.  So from a certain point of view it's easier but I like not having to use consumables so I like how it plays the way it is.


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#10
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I should retract a bit. I think the one exception post DAO is Golems of Amgarrak. That's hard. Even on Normal.


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#11
darkmanifest

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Yeah, first time I played Awakening, I had to bump up to Nightmare to get a challenge - much different from crying my way through the Battle of Denerim on Normal with that character.  Not complaining, though.  If it had been like Amgarrak, I would have rage quit.  At least Amgarrak is mercifully short.



#12
Dutchess

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Yeah, Awakening is easy, even on Nightmare. Only the overwhelm attacks of the children are annoying.



#13
DarthGizka

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In NWN with its DnD ruleset, things were a bit iffy at very low levels because of the silly hitpoint progression that gave you something like 10 HP at level 1. DA:O rules fix the hitpoint problem but everything else tends to be rather creaky during early levels.

Toons have trouble hitting anything even with lots of +DEX and +attack bonusses from gear and all allocatable attribute points piled into strength or dexterity. At that time the effect of available abilities on hit rate and defence is somewhere between very small and pure placebo. Resistance mechanics do work already after a fashion, but with a lot of sputtering.

For non-mages, many important abilities are delayed by silly level restrictions. Shield warriors are probably hit hardest as they have to wait for level 12 for the non-placebo editions of their defensive abilities, and there aren't any decent shields until you go to Orzammar and swipe one from Vartag. As a consequence, many builds don't really unfold until the early to mid teen levels. Weapons with three rune slots tend to be scarce or unavailable before that time.

Mages fare the best because there are no level restrictions for spell schools, only for specialisations and other non-essential things. Hence a mage can have a reasonably well-rounded spellbook as soon as they have sufficient cash and can travel to all the vendors of tomes. With mousestalker's Stick of Sovereign Summoning that would be right after arrival in Lothering, otherwise it may take a couple of levels to get the funds.

For example, my current nightmare solo mage hoarded all spell points except one in the five levels since Lothering, originally in order to be flexible for Uldred and the RtO ogre who were looming rather large on the horizon. That turned out to be unnecessary, so the specialisation and four spell points are still hanging now, halfway through the Ashes. That would probably be unthinkable for any other class.

Playing a mage is also special because it is irrelevant how much damage enemies would do if you allowed them to hit you, since you generally don't (except maybe for your favourite bossy beasts and desire demons). Contrast this to shield warriors who feel like they are wearing wet paper for armour if they are pitted against revenants and two-handers, until the early to midteens when they suddenly become almost invulnerable and can eat revenants for breakfast.

Enemy levelling is a problem. The bounty hunters at the Frostback Mountain pass will be level 10 (leader) and 9 (grunts) if you go there early but 16 and 15 respectively if you go there with a Warden who is level 16 or higher. Ranked enemies tend to stop levelling at level 20 in general, grunts long before that.

This means that high-level characters appear stronger simply because they have so many levels on their enemies. In saving throws, having five levels on the enemy is like having an extra GM Hale rune equipped, or to negate the equivalent resistance for the enemy. The level difference alone is equivalent to 25 attribute points (more than 8 levels' worth) piled exclusively into the attacking attribute, and 50 points - more than 16 levels' worth - for the defending attribute group. The difference is even greater if you actually did spend some of your extra attribute points sensibly.

It seems that the game was deliberately designed to make you appear weak during early levels and strong later, no matter what you do. Another thing is that they had to make the difficulty such that an average first-time player can muddle through somehow, which means serious pwnage if you know what you're doing and increasing distance to the reference muddle as your build develops.

In Awakening you hit the ground running, and you also have all the accumulated bonusses and goodies from your DA:O life. This widens the gap. Amgarrak was clearly designed to take power gamers down a peg or two on Hard and Nightmare, but I guess they couldn't afford to do that with Awakening.
 


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#14
Kantr

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The battle with the mother was annoying. She managed to knock me out of the map, down to the side where she couldn't hurt me. I didn't want to reload so just had to sit there with the rest of my party down waiting until I finally killed her.

 

I don't think an Orlesian warden would be able to do the dlc (in terms of story) after all the companion ones Morrigan and Leliana wouldn't know who you are (although I suppose you could do the others). The hero of Ferelden would still disappear I think (haven't yet played them)



#15
mousestalker

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I found it moderately challenging as an Orlesian commander. As the imported Hero of Ferelden it was pretty easy.

#16
Jeffonl1

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Second this!



#17
Akrabra

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Never tried it as Orlesian Warden, how is he/she treated during the game?. Guess it is mainly easier on normal because you got the gear and some of the new abilites just have way to much dmg. Peon's plight as warrior forexample. 



#18
Lucy Glitter

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The battle with the mother was annoying. She managed to knock me out of the map, down to the side where she couldn't hurt me. I didn't want to reload so just had to sit there with the rest of my party down waiting until I finally killed her.

 

I don't think an Orlesian warden would be able to do the dlc (in terms of story) after all the companion ones Morrigan and Leliana wouldn't know who you are (although I suppose you could do the others). The hero of Ferelden would still disappear I think (haven't yet played them)

 

That's happened to me a couple of times!!



#19
caradoc2000

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Never tried it as Orlesian Warden, how is he/she treated during the game?.

There are differences. The nobles in particular aren't exactly tickled pink about having an Orlesian arl.

#20
Guest_starlitegirlx_*

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I think it's too fast and short. You get a whole bunch of cool new talents and specializations and barely have time to use them. I wish you could have them in the original game. They should have found a way to patch the game so you get all the new skills in the original game once you play awakening. It's really not that long after you've done it once or twice. It sort of feels like you can get through it pretty fast. The longest part for me was figuring out the maps so not to get lost. But after that, it's really too short for a DLC. Of course I'm comparing to the Major DLC we get with ME3. ME1 was pathetic. ME2 had some that were a bit longer but multiple short stops. ME3 was actually finally what DLC should be baring Ashes being a joke. Awakening was rushed, clearly. Just another way to make a quick buck for themselves. These days I compare DLC to what you get with skyrim. Skyrim. That's some quality DLC right there regarding the amount of gaming you get from it. Some of the side quests might be meh but the actual game play for the main quests in the DLC is pretty good so long as it interests you. Though I avoided becoming a vampire for ages until I found a mod that actually made it pretty cool.



#21
Guest_starlitegirlx_*

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In NWN with its DnD ruleset, things were a bit iffy at very low levels because of the silly hitpoint progression that gave you something like 10 HP at level 1. DA:O rules fix the hitpoint problem but everything else tends to be rather creaky during early levels.

Toons have trouble hitting anything even with lots of +DEX and +attack bonusses from gear and all allocatable attribute points piled into strength or dexterity. At that time the effect of available abilities on hit rate and defence is somewhere between very small and pure placebo. Resistance mechanics do work already after a fashion, but with a lot of sputtering.

For non-mages, many important abilities are delayed by silly level restrictions. Shield warriors are probably hit hardest as they have to wait for level 12 for the non-placebo editions of their defensive abilities, and there aren't any decent shields until you go to Orzammar and swipe one from Vartag. As a consequence, many builds don't really unfold until the early to mid teen levels. Weapons with three rune slots tend to be scarce or unavailable before that time.

Mages fare the best because there are no level restrictions for spell schools, only for specialisations and other non-essential things. Hence a mage can have a reasonably well-rounded spellbook as soon as they have sufficient cash and can travel to all the vendors of tomes. With mousestalker's Stick of Sovereign Summoning that would be right after arrival in Lothering, otherwise it may take a couple of levels to get the funds.

For example, my current nightmare solo mage hoarded all spell points except one in the five levels since Lothering, originally in order to be flexible for Uldred and the RtO ogre who were looming rather large on the horizon. That turned out to be unnecessary, so the specialisation and four spell points are still hanging now, halfway through the Ashes. That would probably be unthinkable for any other class.

Playing a mage is also special because it is irrelevant how much damage enemies would do if you allowed them to hit you, since you generally don't (except maybe for your favourite bossy beasts and desire demons). Contrast this to shield warriors who feel like they are wearing wet paper for armour if they are pitted against revenants and two-handers, until the early to midteens when they suddenly become almost invulnerable and can eat revenants for breakfast.

Enemy levelling is a problem. The bounty hunters at the Frostback Mountain pass will be level 10 (leader) and 9 (grunts) if you go there early but 16 and 15 respectively if you go there with a Warden who is level 16 or higher. Ranked enemies tend to stop levelling at level 20 in general, grunts long before that.

This means that high-level characters appear stronger simply because they have so many levels on their enemies. In saving throws, having five levels on the enemy is like having an extra GM Hale rune equipped, or to negate the equivalent resistance for the enemy. The level difference alone is equivalent to 25 attribute points (more than 8 levels' worth) piled exclusively into the attacking attribute, and 50 points - more than 16 levels' worth - for the defending attribute group. The difference is even greater if you actually did spend some of your extra attribute points sensibly.

It seems that the game was deliberately designed to make you appear weak during early levels and strong later, no matter what you do. Another thing is that they had to make the difficulty such that an average first-time player can muddle through somehow, which means serious pwnage if you know what you're doing and increasing distance to the reference muddle as your build develops.

In Awakening you hit the ground running, and you also have all the accumulated bonusses and goodies from your DA:O life. This widens the gap. Amgarrak was clearly designed to take power gamers down a peg or two on Hard and Nightmare, but I guess they couldn't afford to do that with Awakening.
 

 

Agreed. The game kind of sucks early on. I add xp and attrib points right away because of that. Then it feels like I'm actually playing a decent game. Even in ME series, it sucked early on. ME1 and ME2 good luck with those powers right out of the gate. This is something that BW/EA sucks as. While you shouldn't be overpowered, your powers should matter to some extent.

 

But leveling in and of itself is always problematic it seems because you don't really get to have as much fun with whatever skills you are using until you get to those higher levels. I thought this of Archery in skyrim and even stealth at times. In DAO the best magic is later after many levels when you are probably nearing the end and the best rogue skills are at the end. Tank can run well early on to a degree because the skill you get are not anything too specific. You can still swing a sword and bash with a shield to a degree without that power and they do some damage yet they get beaten to death half the time. But rogues and mages feel like they suck early on and are not fun because their skills don't really come out till later. They can get by with what they have but it's not fun at all to be honest. So I addxp as soon as I start because I want the fun of playing the skills I am supposed to have. This is where ME was better. Once you put some points into a skill you had it. It's just a matter of how powerful it was. Lift was useful but didn't really give you mad power till it was at least at advanced stages. But then again, I play casually. ME3 MP was the only game I played on harder levels. The rest I play easy because the design sucks.

 

I think ideally you should have powers then have to put more into them and the things you need for them like magic or strength. Kind of how skyrim is. You needed more mana to sustain some of those spells or you had to regen. But you also could make enchantments that helped that. So much more playable because you could have fun but sadly magic never scaled in power which was lame. Here, you get some very powerful spells but they only come after so many points are unlocked. Now as a straight out mage it's BORING. Also, it would be nice to have more powers that are less powerful. The way it unfolds you don't get enough points to give yourself more powers. You have to focus on a few lines. Now I cheat and give my rogues some magic. But again, stupid sheathing of weapons means I have to pick. Crushing prison is the only one where I don't sheath. It's a high level power. Fun as hell. But I would play others now and then for the fun if I didn't have to sheath. Crappy design.

 

Also, I really love dual daggers. Why my mage could not use magic from her hands without having to sheath and unsheath her weapons is beyond me. In fact, a dual dagger running mage makes a hell of a lot more sense than a sword/shield running one realistically speaking. And they could have included a cloaking spell as well. Or invisibility. Maybe in the creation line as a ward - ward of invisibility or something like that. This would have made mages more fun than they are. Go with arcane warrior (what idiot thought it would be good to make a mage carry a shield and wear heavier armor when they are truly designed as more like rogues?) - Arcane warrior should have opened up branch options like not sheathing weapons, dual dagger or sword or sword and shield with a few of those skills. Rather than just the four there should have been ways to spec it that were not offered. It's limited. Yeah you get a sword, but really you are designed to be a rouge otherwise you pay in blood. Mages make great rogues. I often ran mage rogue mix in skyrim. Stealth, maybe archery for distance, and magic.

 

I have tried to go back to mages now and just don't like either straight magic or arcane warriors because some of the most powerful spells knocks you on your butt. That's ridiculous. If you are an arcane warrior you have to sheath your weapon to do a spell then your targets have moved and now you do the spell on yourself and your team. Blowback from Fireball is not worth it because everyone but the tank goes down but even the tank will go down. It's hit or miss. After playing several games, it feels like they really didn't think the mechanics through at all. That's why I play this one on easy and level up early. It's an issue all games have but looking to ME, it was done pretty well in the first game. You could put a few points into throw or whatever and get some utility out of it. Here, you don't get the skill until later. Much later.


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#22
DarthGizka

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Ahhh, Fireball! I love Fireball. Wholesale remote destruction with knockdown, mana-efficient, fast recharge - can't do a mage without it. And it shoots around corners, too. You want your team behind you when you use it, though, not in front. Unless you're trying tricky stuff, like picking out hostiles from a crowd that you paralysis-exploded wholesale, when Blood Wound is not available yet. Heal up the friendlies, pre-damage every hostile, Fireball. Sorted.

On perfectly flat terrain you can place it with perfect precision, but beware of the snap-to-target feature*. It's a different story on sloped terrain, since the AoE targetting thingy is a flat horizontal disk somewhere in 3D space instead of being projected onto the ground. You can still make out which enemies will be covered because they get highlighted, but that doesn't work for your own character. Better take off the Cinderfelses or use Wade's work clothing for the enthusiastic fire magic practicioner.

Spell damage scaling is done pretty well, I think. The scaling factor for spell damage is (100 + SP), which gives you decent damage even at low levels when you have low spellpower. Then the contribution from your rising spellpower becomes more and more dominant. Directly via spell damage itself, but also indirectly because your hexes grow stronger as well up to a certain point. Not to mention things like the Cinderfelses, the Black Hands, and the only piece of happiness that a mage can buy for money (at the Circle Tower). Hence, Fireball starts awesome and then it sort of grows with you.

I've got some thoughts on a lot of other things you mentioned, but they need to percolate a bit to become postable.

Suffice it to say that straight mages are the un-boringest class of all, and it is very, very difficult to play a mere mortal again after having played a mage. Everything feels so pedestrian and boring after that, except maybe for a stealthy DW dagger rogue. However, a straight mage probably requires the most experience of all to play, because hardly any battle ever goes quite as intended and for some enemies you are a one-hit kill. So you need a good repertoire of possible reactions and a well-sorted spellbook.

For example, you cannot count on freezing a fast-moving wraith exactly in a doorway but if you happen to do so then you pounce on the opportunity. Hex, Virulent Walking Bomb, wait for the other enemies to pile up behind the icicle, then detonate. Basically, you make an opening move and then you just wing it through the rest of the battle. For important moves you need fallbacks, and fallbacks for the fallbacks or a clear idea where to run. Sometimes I do something stupid like barging into a room full of enemies and stone-fisting one by way of saying hello, just to see how I'm going to get myself out of that mess.

*) Snap-to-target seems to be useful every once in a blue moon but a royal PITA pretty much constantly. I'd turn it off permanently if that were possible. It's absolutely deadly with Paralysis Explosion, since the player character stays paralysed longer than anyone else. A badly placed Fireball will kill you as well but at least there you tend to have much more leeway with where you place it, which makes it easier to avoid the lethal snap.



#23
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Ahhh, Fireball! I love Fireball. Wholesale remote destruction with knockdown, mana-efficient, fast recharge - can't do a mage without it. And it shoots around corners, too. You want your team behind you when you use it, though, not in front. Unless you're trying tricky stuff, like picking out hostiles from a crowd that you paralysis-exploded wholesale, when Blood Wound is not available yet. Heal up the friendlies, pre-damage every hostile, Fireball. Sorted.

On perfectly flat terrain you can place it with perfect precision, but beware of the snap-to-target feature*. It's a different story on sloped terrain, since the AoE targetting thingy is a flat horizontal disk somewhere in 3D space instead of being projected onto the ground. You can still make out which enemies will be covered because they get highlighted, but that doesn't work for your own character. Better take off the Cinderfelses or use Wade's work clothing for the enthusiastic fire magic practicioner.

Spell damage scaling is done pretty well, I think. The scaling factor for spell damage is (100 + SP), which gives you decent damage even at low levels when you have low spellpower. Then the contribution from your rising spellpower becomes more and more dominant. Directly via spell damage itself, but also indirectly because your hexes grow stronger as well up to a certain point. Not to mention things like the Cinderfelses, the Black Hands, and the only piece of happiness that a mage can buy for money (at the Circle Tower). Hence, Fireball starts awesome and then it sort of grows with you.

I've got some thoughts on a lot of other things you mentioned, but they need to percolate a bit to become postable.

Suffice it to say that straight mages are the un-boringest class of all, and it is very, very difficult to play a mere mortal again after having played a mage. Everything feels so pedestrian and boring after that, except maybe for a stealthy DW dagger rogue. However, a straight mage probably requires the most experience of all to play, because hardly any battle ever goes quite as intended and for some enemies you are a one-hit kill. So you need a good repertoire of possible reactions and a well-sorted spellbook.

For example, you cannot count on freezing a fast-moving wraith exactly in a doorway but if you happen to do so then you pounce on the opportunity. Hex, Virulent Walking Bomb, wait for the other enemies to pile up behind the icicle, then detonate. Basically, you make an opening move and then you just wing it through the rest of the battle. For important moves you need fallbacks, and fallbacks for the fallbacks or a clear idea where to run. Sometimes I do something stupid like barging into a room full of enemies and stone-fisting one by way of saying hello, just to see how I'm going to get myself out of that mess.

*) Snap-to-target seems to be useful every once in a blue moon but a royal PITA pretty much constantly. I'd turn it off permanently if that were possible. It's absolutely deadly with Paralysis Explosion, since the player character stays paralysed longer than anyone else. A badly placed Fireball will kill you as well but at least there you tend to have much more leeway with where you place it, which makes it easier to avoid the lethal snap.

 

I respect your words but right now, I am not having any fun with mages. I loved them before. To bits and pieces then I played the rogue and oh my. So much more fun and clever. I love bomb tossing and duel wields and steal backstabs so much. My mage is just not even fun anymore after that.

 

I only really started holding back my team with the stealth of the rogue. I like them to mostly run free. All that back and forth control gets tiresome. Tactics work well but sometimes they just run hog wild and pulling off spells is a headache. I'll have to give it another try but lately I don't even like running with a full team. It's so much easier with two or three rather than four. As long as there is healing I can make it work. Plus I play easier modes. I tended to favor the same spells over others. I just didn't find most of creation useful beyond glyph repulsion and healing branch. Walking virulent bomb was never much fun for me either. Love Blizzard. Love fireball but that can do some screwed up things if you don't get everyone out of the way and alistair is a charger. I've learned with my scout to run with him on hold most of the time. Kind of like solo most of the time I guess. I have to be careful with large groups and final battle level stuff as for some reason this game will crash then. So I have to play easier modes and less people. Might be some mods but can't find which ones. So I haven't run a mage yet with just him. I lost the fun for it but will do an elf mage soon I think. CE scout right now though. She's an apostate actually who has a couple of spells. Nothing special. Nobody knows she has magic. It's how they kept her safe. How's that for building your own story?



#24
Ribosome

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I think it's too fast and short. You get a whole bunch of cool new talents and specializations and barely have time to use them. I wish you could have them in the original game. They should have found a way to patch the game so you get all the new skills in the original game once you play awakening.

 

yes, yes, yes, and yes. I can't play SnS warrior anymore without the 'Awakening in the OC' mod, since there's just simply a severe lack of talents to actually use compared to other playstyles. Granted, they're still not attainable until ~lv.20+, but I'll take what I can get

 

edit: Well, to amend that last bit, it does help smooth talent progression quite a bit, seeing as how players had absolutely nothing left to get by the time that level was reached anyways. I'd rather not throw away my last several points into basic DW/2h/archer abilities that are of zero use to that character....



#25
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yes, yes, yes, and yes. I can't play SnS warrior anymore without the 'Awakening in the OC' mod, since there's just simply a severe lack of talents to actually use compared to other playstyles. Granted, they're still not attainable until ~lv.20+, but I'll take what I can get

 

edit: Well, to amend that last bit, it does help smooth talent progression quite a bit, seeing as how players had absolutely nothing left to get by the time that level was reached anyways. I'd rather not throw away my last several points into basic DW/2h/archer abilities that are of zero use to that character....

 

There's a mod that will give me awakening talents in origins? Where is this? Please point me there...