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Who had it the worst Mages, City Elves or Wardens?

Débuté par Cobra's_back , avril 11 2014 02:33

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#26
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Posté 11 avril 2014 - 05:42

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I think city elves have it the worst. They are looked down upon by everyone, including the Dalish.

 

In the scheme of things, yes, but the scheme of things compared to day to day quality of life is what we might want to look at. And in that area, the city elves had it the best. I felt more true friendship, more connection, more quality in the day to day life of the elves, even if vaughn was a monster. I am not going to let the 'over dramatization' of his behavior or the rape of shianni or rounding them up for a gang rape serve as some sort of representation of what it was always like there. It seemed like that was a specifically outstanding day there. If shianni just did nothing we don't know how things would have gone. We don't know for sure that he would have assaulted anyone or if anyone would have been taken away because he seemed to just be playing a drunken bully (not defending him but shianni triggered the situation to go from bad to worse). He probably would have been a jerk, bullied them, maybe smashed up some things and left. Never incite a drunk who is a racist and has a lot of power. Kind of a general rule to live by. Shianni was too stupid to get this.


#27
Xetykins
Posté 11 avril 2014 - 05:42

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At least the wardens are out and about and fighting for something worthwhile though. The mages have all these powers and all that within their four walls with all the peeping tom templars watching your every move. And living like that for probably most of their natural lives unless unusual circumstances occurs like conscription on the mage origins. I think that is worse than fighting darkspawns on a weekly basis.

And as a warden you can boink freely -:P
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#28
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Posté 11 avril 2014 - 05:51

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At least the wardens are out and about and fighting for something worthwhile though. The mages have all these powers and all that within their four walls with all the peeping tom templars watching your every move. And living like that for probably most of their natural lives unless unusual circumstances occurs like conscription on the mage origins. I think that is worse than fighting darkspawns on a weekly basis.

And as a warden you can boink freely - :P

 

They are facing death daily or a good portion of the time. We seen in DA2 that Nate gets send to the deep roads and it doesn't go well. This is what their lives will be. And there aren't that many female wardens so it's mostly men. I guess they hook up with tavern wenches or prostitutes. That's not really a great life. Look at someone like Jory. If he had survived, what kind of family life would he have had? It's pretty much be over.

 

Fact is, none of them are good situations. All have elements of suck so it's more personal... which do you personally feel is the worst. I feel like if you lay low, maybe the Alienage is the best followed by the mages. Unless you are okay with facing probably death on a regular basis, turning into a ghoul down the line and not having family of any meaningful sort while living with nightmares and a bunch of other wardens. Wardens to me are stuck with this every day. Mages do not have to face deadspawn. Life may not be ideal for them, but based on what we specifically see in the tower in this game, it was not that bad. People hint at other things, but they could take place anywhere. Going on info we are given, I'd still say wardens come out a little ahead because I saw love and care and sense of family in the alienage and I saw the mages living pretty peacefully in the tower.


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#29
Corker
Posté 11 avril 2014 - 05:51

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" I just wanted to mention this side-comment from Vaughn that makes it sound like elves can't properly marry, either. "
 
I'm not sure. They haven't officially said they can't. As for Vaughn I see him as someone who doesn't care much about laws. When I played the CE, I did run into married Elves in the Alienage. None of them gave me the impression that their marriage is illegal.


I don't disagree - I think it's much more likely that his comment is just a reflection of his bigotry.

Oh! Speaking of married elves and mages! Nyssa, in DA2, says she is "trapped" in her marriage to Huon. It's no real marriage, since he's stuck in the Gallows, but neither is she free to remarry. Their union wasn't annulled on the basis of his being a mage.

So if a mage marries, it does seem to count. Possibly it's just culturally discouraged in the Circles?
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#30
theskymoves
Posté 11 avril 2014 - 05:53

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And as a warden you can boink freely - :P

 

And with mods, as often as you want!  :devil:


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#31
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Posté 11 avril 2014 - 05:54

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Starlitegirlx,

 

"And they aren't going out to deal with darkspawn or having nightmares regularly nor do they know they are going to die in a few decades in  a pretty ghastly way. So wardens definitely have it worse, even more so because they get lied to about what they've signed up to and while they may accept it, it still sucks massively. There's none of that with elves or mages."

 

 

So true and you can't escape the transformation. Mages can try the underground railroad approach like Hawk's dad. The CE can join the Dalish if he/she could prove their worth. 

 

The Warden is going down in a grisly sort of way when the time comes.

 

The warden goes down in a grisly way sooner or later with no chance of getting out of it. And their quality of life will be crappy - no family, probably no love, battles and nightmares... Alistair and the warden will have it good by comparison. I guess if you are a warrior at heart and not much of a family person it will suit you. Again, it depends on the person. People tend to think the grass is greener. Best you can do is make the best of where you are.


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#32
Cobra's_back
Posté 11 avril 2014 - 05:57

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I don't disagree - I think it's much more likely that his comment is just a reflection of his bigotry.

Oh! Speaking of married elves and mages! Nyssa, in DA2, says she is "trapped" in her marriage to Huon. It's no real marriage, since he's stuck in the Gallows, but neither is she free to remarry. Their union wasn't annulled on the basis of his being a mage.

So if a mage marries, it does seem to count. Possibly it's just culturally discouraged in the Circles?

 

Excellent point. I forgot about that. Her husband really scared me. That was so creepy. I wonder if my brain just wanted to forget about that guy.


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#33
Xetykins
Posté 11 avril 2014 - 06:16

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They are facing death daily or a good portion of the time. We seen in DA2 that Nate gets send to the deep roads and it doesn't go well. This is what their lives will be. And there aren't that many female wardens so it's mostly men. I guess they hook up with tavern wenches or prostitutes. That's not really a great life. Look at someone like Jory. If he had survived, what kind of family life would he have had? It's pretty much be over.
 
Fact is, none of them are good situations. All have elements of suck so it's more personal... which do you personally feel is the worst. I feel like if you lay low, maybe the Alienage is the best followed by the mages. Unless you are okay with facing probably death on a regular basis, turning into a ghoul down the line and not having family of any meaningful sort while living with nightmares and a bunch of other wardens. Wardens to me are stuck with this every day. Mages do not have to face deadspawn. Life may not be ideal for them, but based on what we specifically see in the tower in this game, it was not that bad. People hint at other things, but they could take place anywhere. Going on info we are given, I'd still say wardens come out a little ahead because I saw love and care and sense of family in the alienage and I saw the mages living pretty peacefully in the tower.


It's not my most preferable way of living, no. But I'd rather live that way than getting holed up in a cage for the rest of my natural life or unless I get the nerve to commit suicide. Life in itself is a death sentence anyway, but death by boredom is worse i think. And you dont need to become a ghoul,some darkspawn could end it for you. Just dont die in the deeproads and make sure someone burns your body when you die.

That's just my own personal opinion :-)
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#34
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Posté 11 avril 2014 - 06:51

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It's not my most preferable way of living, no. But I'd rather live that way than getting holed up in a cage for the rest of my natural life or unless I get the nerve to commit suicide. Life in itself is a death sentence anyway, but death by boredom is worse i think. And you dont need to become a ghoul,some darkspawn could end it for you. Just dont die in the deeproads and make sure someone burns your body when you die.

That's just my own personal opinion :-)

 

All points are valid. Yours is valid just as much as mine and as is your opinion. Frankly, none of them are any kind of preferable existence. The whole game has themes of oppression which after you play it a few times really can get to you if you let it. Kind of why I pick Skyrim over this minus that this has the best romance aspect. In skyrim it's meh but has elements of fun as you can make your own follower to marry you and mine was rocking hot and one badass mage. There were conflicts and people being run out of their land like the forsworn. But nothing quite like this. Here, all three of these groups have unpleasant things they have to contend with and really none of them are worse or better except I think for what would grate on you more. That's a matter of which you feel you might be able to tolerate more. If I were to be with someone I loved, then with Alistair in the wardens would be great. Fight together, be in love, then die together. Daily life would be generally happy. No alistair and probably it's a toss between mages and elves with elves winning out because they had a lot more freedom and really just had to learn when to run and hide, like when drunken racist nobles show up. Mages, well that's probably a recipe to jump out a window if there was one. Nothing like being oppressed by a bunch of religious zealots to make you want to find a good self combustion spell ;)


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#35
theskymoves
Posté 11 avril 2014 - 07:08

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They could not have known Wynne's baby had magic? She just gave birth. 

 

I don't think they did know... Rhys was first sent to a Chantry orphanage, and then later to a Circle.


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#36
luna1124
Posté 11 avril 2014 - 07:13

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And with mods, as often as you want!  :devil:

LOL.. yepper :D


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#37
Guest_starlitegirlx_*
Posté 11 avril 2014 - 07:20

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Wynne talks about waking up next to young men a few times to alistair... Was she a cougar that screwed all the young mages she could? They really should have made her look more attractive for that dialogue. And not so damn old. I have a mod that makes her at least look like some of the you mages might not want to put a bag over her head. Still have to deal with listening to her talk, but at least the face is an improvement.


#38
luna1124
Posté 11 avril 2014 - 07:22

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^^She was funny with that banter^^ I think she was just messing with Alistair.


#39
BronzTrooper
Posté 11 avril 2014 - 07:36

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I say definitely the city elves.  The mages are, at least, treated with some respect.  Grey Wardens can choose if they want to be Wardens or not and they are highly respected in most parts of Thedas.  I say that the Wardens are much better off than the mages or city elves.  Yes, there is the Calling, but until then, they can do anything within the confines of the Grey Wardens' rules.

 

In terms of who got the shortest end of the stick:

 

Grey Wardens: 3

 

Mages: 2

 

City elves: 1

 

1 being the worst off.


#40
Xetykins
Posté 11 avril 2014 - 08:39

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They could not have known Wynne's baby had magic? She just gave birth.



I dont think they will know it at birth. If I understand it will come sooner or later and usually under stressful circumstances. In wynne's part it was being bullied and so she set him on fire. Thats when she got carried off by the templars. Cant remember if her parents ratted her or someone else. But yeah I bet its a bastard having your child taken specially if they dont even have the gift. They become either priest or templar.
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#41
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Posté 11 avril 2014 - 08:44

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I think Wardens, just because you can't fight back. City Elves and Mages are severely screwed too, but they can target various causes of their problems. By attacking, or by more civil political means, or escape. Wardens can't fight the taint. It's a faceless enemy, like a virus or disease.


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#42
Cobra's_back
Posté 11 avril 2014 - 08:48

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I think Wardens, just because you can't fight back. City Elves and Mages are severely screwed too, but they can target various causes of their problems. By attacking, or by more civil political means, or escape. Wardens can't fight the taint. It's a faceless enemy, like a virus or disease.

 

I agree. 


#43
General TSAR
Posté 11 avril 2014 - 08:49

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Casteless Dwarfs.


#44
Shadow Fox
Posté 11 avril 2014 - 08:56

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Of the 3: City Elves


#45
luna1124
Posté 11 avril 2014 - 11:25

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Casteless Dwarfs.

But, they can always go to the surface and be treated a whole lot better.


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#46
Jeffonl1
Posté 11 avril 2014 - 11:45

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This might seem to go against the grain but: Templars. They are slowly destroyed by their lyrium addiction. Once addicted they inevitability become insane

#47
Guest_starlitegirlx_*
Posté 12 avril 2014 - 12:10

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This might seem to go against the grain but: Templars. They are slowly destroyed by their lyrium addiction. Once addicted they inevitability become insane

 

But it seems a portion of them choose this life. Now I don't know if it ends up being kind of like the wardens where they can't get out. I wonder that because in the discussion with Alistair about this, it's something that seems like it *might* be so. There was no reason for the chantry to not want him to leave. My suspicion is that it had more to do with his knowledge of how things work and particularly the lyrium addiction bit as well as their skills. More likely the lyrium addiction because nothing about their skills or talents is so special or unique other than a warrior possesses certain abilities that require magical skill of some sort and dependent on lyrium if you don't have it to begin with.


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#48
Jeffonl1
Posté 12 avril 2014 - 12:33

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But it seems a portion of them choose this life. Now I don't know if it ends up being kind of like the wardens where they can't get out. I wonder that because in the discussion with Alistair about this, it's something that seems like it *might* be so. There was no reason for the chantry to not want him to leave. My suspicion is that it had more to do with his knowledge of how things work and particularly the lyrium addiction bit as well as their skills. More likely the lyrium addiction because nothing about their skills or talents is so special or unique other than a warrior possesses certain abilities that require magical skill of some sort and dependent on lyrium if you don't have it to begin with.


Yes for Alistair it took Duncan's direct intervention with a high cleric to gain his release (and probably the cleric knew Alistair's fate, after the taint).... I too think there is no abdication from the Templar order. I also think that lyrium plays a role in some Templars abilities, but it forms a better control device. Like the joining ritual, I doubt prospective Templars know the cost of joining in their order

#49
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Posté 12 avril 2014 - 12:56

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Yes for Alistair it took Duncan's direct intervention with a high cleric to gain his release (and probably the cleric knew Alistair's fate, after the taint).... I too think there is no abdication from the Templar order. I also think that lyrium plays a role in some Templars abilities, but it forms a better control device. Like the joining ritual, I doubt prospective Templars know the cost of joining in their order

 

I don't think a cleric would know about the joining.


#50
Jeffonl1
Posté 12 avril 2014 - 01:08

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I don't think a cleric would know about the joining.


Iirc the wardens converted on mass to the chantry during the second blight... But that may be too distant a link; Anora seemed well informed though
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