164 réponses à ce sujet

[Lobos1988]

But public sex happens even outside of big parties, that being hetero, gay, bi whatever. So in the end you are against public sex period.

 

Just do not say against gay parades because that sounds homophobic, parades and parties happen everywhere but public sex is not exclusive to any of this events, so your argument of cause and consequence is invalid in this case. 

 

 

Yep. I don't need to see people having sex in public.

 

As I said... I only mentioned the gay pride parades because I have seen it happen there.

 

It is not homophobic to have a problem with those parades (maybe there are some that are fairly normal... maybe... have only experienced the ones over the top)... at least not more than it would be heterophobic to be against similar hetero pride parades

[daveliam]

Some of you guys are getting a little riled up. Shhhh, be calm.

 

Just want to throw in my 2 cents regarding gay pride parades (and I really hope this thread doesn't get locked, these are really great discussions that have stemmed from the original topic). 

 

I haven't been to one in recent memory, but I've heard stories at let me tell you, yes some people do hold views that SOME gay pride parades can be over the top and possibly misrepresenting the gay community. I've had gay people that I personally know express their annoyance and disappointment with what they'd seen.

 

My point is that that's not a horribly uncommon view, and it is shared by some people from the gay community. And it presents a great opportunity for a thorough discussion.

 

Yeah, I have friends who hold this argument too.  In my experience, I tend to find that they are actually more upset about how the parades are being reported versus what's actually happening.  If 75% of the parade is mild, with happy political and corporate allies, and 25% of the parade is raucous, with scantily clad dancers and images; but then 90% of the news stories talk about the raucous part, that's an issue.  And I think that this is why people have a skewed image of them.  Most of my friends who cringe about Pride are more upset about the media representation than the parade itself.

 

And, to comment on the board, I think that this conversation has been pretty level-headed so far, so I'm happy to continue it because I, too, enjoy the dialogue that comes out of these discussions.

[daveliam]

Wow... totally missunderstanding me. Well done and read.

 

 

I'm not sure if I understand how I "misunderstood" you.  I even commented on each of your points in a separate piece so that you could see what my comments are referring to.  Can you give me an example of how I misunderstood you?

[Ianamus]

Not at all.  Certainly not any more than having an Italian American or Irish American or Puerto Rican American culture does (I'm American, if you can't tell, so I'm just using that as my frame; I'm sure there are other cultural examples too).  Celebrating one culture shouldn't create a division between that culture and others unless it becomes exclusionary.  If others aren't welcomed, then yeah, it's divisive.  It's everyone is welcome to enjoy that culture, then no, I don't see it as divisive.

 

Well, thank you for giving me more information about them from someone who goes to them. I suppose that if people enjoy them and have fun then that's all that really matters. 

[Lobos1988]

I enjoy talking to people about my view on this too... it's an important topic of our time

[Mes]

Yeah, I have friends who hold this argument too.  In my experience, I tend to find that they are actually more upset about how the parades are being reported versus what's actually happening.  If 75% of the parade is mild, with happy political and corporate allies, and 25% of the parade is raucous, with scantily clad dancers and images; but then 90% of the news stories talk about the raucous part, that's an issue.  And I think that this is why people have a skewed image of them.  Most of my friends who cringe about Pride are more upset about the media representation than the parade itself.

 

 

That's a good point!! I just googled "gay pride parade" and (after ogling some of the men like a perv) can definitely see a pattern - all of the pictures are of scantily clad people in bondage gear or what have you. 

 

It becomes really difficult for people who haven't been to a lot of gay pride parades for comparison to understand what's real and what's media propaganda. And I think that's totally understandable, if obviously unfortunate. That's why I love these discussions.

[daveliam]

Well, thank you for giving me more information about them from someone who goes to them. I suppose that if people enjoy them and have fun then that's all that really matters. 

 

Yeah, no worries.  I know that you and I don't always see eye to eye on these matters, but we usually do so in a pleasant way.  I'm always happy to continue that conversation.

[Mihura]

Yep. I don't need to see people having sex in public.

 

As I said... I only mentioned the gay pride parades because I have seen it happen there.

 

It is not homophobic to have a problem with those parades (maybe there are some that are fairly normal... maybe... have only experienced the ones over the top)... at least not more than it would be heterophobic to be against similar hetero pride parades

 

If you have a problem with parades and big parties in general than, no it is not homophobic. If it is just LGBTQA+ parades than yes you are homophobic. 

[daveliam]

That's a good point!! I just googled "gay pride parade" and (after ogling some of the men like a perv) can definitely see a pattern - all of the pictures are of scantily clad people in bondage gear or what have you. 

 

It becomes really difficult for people who haven't been to a lot of gay pride parades for comparison to understand what's real and what's media propaganda. And I think that's totally understandable, if obviously unfortunate. That's why I love these discussions.

 

Well, you'll have to go and see one so you can experience it (and ogle the men) in person!

[Lobos1988]

So, like, Spring Break?  Or St. Patty's?  Or New Year's Eve?  I see tons of "crazy heterosexual" stuff every time I go to a bar, but I'm not complaining about it.

 

 

Have you ever been to a pride parade?  Or are you just reporting what you've seen on the news or the internet?  Because if you have actually been to one, you would know that about 3/4 of the marchers in the parades are politicians and companies that are supporting the LGBT community.  And they are all dressed fully (usually in t-shirts with slogans on them).  And NONE of them are having public sex. 

 

Are there scantily clad men and women there too?  Yes, there are.  But they are the minority (although an enjoyable minority, to be honest).  And THEY aren't having public sex either.  You seem to be speaking in broad generalizations and I'm not seeing much practical experience influencing your statements.

 

 

Questionable statement about "normal stuff couples do" aside, why is Pride being shoved in your face?  Are you there?  If so, then you probably know what's up?  If you are just driving past, who cares?  If you aren't there, how is it being shoved in your face?

 

 

This is exactly what the scantily clad people at Pride do too.  So what is the difference again?

 

Here you go:

 

I have never said I like public sex at all.

 

I HAVE been to a gay pride parade... this one was maybe a bad example after what I read, but it was over the top sexual.

 

There is a difference between public sex and not caring and somehow accidentally getting caught while risking something.

 

Do gay couples not do normal stuff couples do??

 

Pride parades are actually very big. If you live in a city you can't just "drive by and ignore them" at least the on I was on was that way... or I might not even have been there.

 

There is no real difference: As I said... I am not into showing everyone what sexuality I am.

[Lobos1988]

If you have a problem with parades and big parties in general than, no it is not homophobic. If it is just LGBTQA+ parades than yes you are homophobic. 

 

I have no problem with parades and big parties.

 

I have a problem with public sex display.... be it whatever you are into. So I am ok? ^^

[Neon Rising Winter]

Here you go:

 

I have never said I like public sex at all.

 

I HAVE been to a gay pride parade... this one was maybe a bad example after what I read, but it was over the top sexual.

 

There is a difference between public sex and not caring and somehow accidentally getting caught while risking something.

 

Do gay couples not do normal stuff couples do??

 

Pride parades are actually very big. If you live in a city you can't just "drive by and ignore them" at least the on I was on was that way... or I might not even have been there.

 

There is no real difference: As I said... I am not into showing everyone what sexuality I am.

I did find myself wondering what march you are talking about. The one I regularly attend is huge and would include some fairly scantily clad people sure - although probably no worse than any city centre on a Friday night - but also parents groups, employment based organisations, activist groups, hobby based groups - a whole multitude of very normal people.

 

The problem is you've come across as generalising about all marches being entirely like this, and that's easily disproved by a quick empirical google.

[daveliam]

Here you go:

 

I have never said I like public sex at all.

 

I HAVE been to a gay pride parade... this one was maybe a bad example after what I read, but it was over the top sexual.

 

There is a difference between public sex and not caring and somehow accidentally getting caught while risking something.

 

Do gay couples not do normal stuff couples do??

 

Pride parades are actually very big. If you live in a city you can't just "drive by and ignore them" at least the on I was on was that way... or I might not even have been there.

 

There is no real difference: As I said... I am not into showing everyone what sexuality I am.

 

Fair enough.  I think that issue was more around your initial statements that seemed to indicate that you thought that it was only gay people who do these things.  Hence your "crazy heterosexual stuff comment".

 

If your issue is against any and all public displays of sexuality and lewdness, regardless of whether it's gay, straight, or whatever, then that's a different thing.  This seems like what you are saying based on your more recent posts.  So it's not really that gay people are forcing their sexuality in your face; it's that everyone is doing it.

[Lobos1988]

As I said mate... I might have gotten a bad example and am sorry for maybe generalising aspects.

 

The essence you should take out of it is that though I might have been wrong by generalising gay pride marches is the thing I was originally on about:

 

You can do whatever you want in private, I don't judge you. Unless I ask you if you are homosexual or unless you hit on me somehow and I have to refuse there is absolutely no reason why I should know what you do in your bedroom.

 

As far as I am concerned you are a human being and if we have a conversation about something fun I really could not care less about anything than what you are into sexually. Defining yourself over what you like sexually is wrong in my eyes.

[Neon Rising Winter]

As I said mate... I might have gotten a bad example and am sorry for maybe generalising aspects.

 

The essence you should take out of it is that though I might have been wrong by generalising gay pride marches is the thing I was originally on about:

 

You can do whatever you want in private, I don't judge you. Unless I ask you if you are homosexual or unless you hit on me somehow and I have to refuse there is absolutely no reason why I should know what you do in your bedroom.

 

As far as I am concerned you are a human being and if we have a conversation about something fun I really could not care less about anything than what you are into sexually. Defining yourself over what you like sexually is wrong in my eyes.

 

The problem here is you're saying it as though this is something straight people never do. They discuss who they're attracted to, what physical features attract then, sometimes at painful length and despite your best efforts to escape. They shag in shady corners of public places - it's currently about half midnight here - there's a ton of them out there at it right now. And I'm not saying gay people don't do this, I'm just wondering why it's only them you choose to direct this question to?

[Rotward]

Omni sexual could be used to describe someone attracted to non-humans, objects, or really anything. Any kind of sexuality would fall under that term, or it's a misnomer. 

[Lobos1988]

I am sorry that you think this is what I imply. I have no desire at all to know ANYONES... being it a straight or gay persons... sexuality unless I am being hit on, I hit on them or I ask them for it.

 

There is NOT any specialisation of this rule intended.

 

Maybe I did not make it perfectly clear...

[Mes]

 Defining yourself over what you like sexually is wrong in my eyes.

 

I had a friend who was very over the top, in your face, gay. I think his sexuality defined him way more than, for instance, my sexuality defines me. One day we got into an argument about something unrelated, and he screamed at me like no one has ever screamed at me before. He was literally going nuts. Needless to say we're not friends anymore because I can't handle that kind of treatment butttttt anyway... 

 

We did discuss why he was always so intense, and he said it was basically due to the difficulties he encountered growing up as a gay person. His experiences hardened him and made him more outspoken about his sexuality than I, as a straight person, ever needed to be. So in a way now he wears it as a badge - I'm gay, I'm proud of it, what are you going to do about it?

 

Anyway I'm not sure if any of this is making sense, but my point is I think I can understand why some people's sexualities are more of a defining feature than they are in others. 

[Lobos1988]

I had a friend who was very over the top, in your face, gay. I think his sexuality defined him way more than, for instance, my sexuality defines me. One day we got into an argument about something unrelated, and he screamed at me like no one has ever screamed at me before. He was literally going nuts. Needless to say we're not friends anymore because I can't handle that kind of treatment butttttt anyway... 

 

We did discuss why he was always so intense, and he said it was basically due to the difficulties he encountered growing up as a gay person. His experiences hardened him and made him more outspoken about his sexuality than I, as a straight person, ever needed to be. So in a way now he wears it as a badge - I'm gay, I'm proud of it, what are you going to do about it?

 

Anyway I'm not sure if any of this is making sense, but my point is I think I can understand why some people's sexualities are more of a defining feature than they are in others. 

 

This is actually sad that life treated him this way... 

 

And yet I still think it SHOULD not be this way. I can not make everyone on this planet not define him or herself by their sexuality. But it would be so much easier for everyone to get along if you just did not.

 

There will always be people that can not accept homosexuality. Always. If no one knows what you are into no one can judge you. This is not the main reason I feel the way I do, but it is an aspect that would make a lot of problems disappear.

 

It is like with religions. There is people that would condemn you to hell for being of some sort of religion they despise... but only after you let them know you believe in something different. As long as you don't tell them (and not necessarily wear stuff that points them to it) they would never ever judge you... they might even get to know you FIRST and when they find out they would KNOW you are a person they enjoy...

 

But the world is a bitter place...mh?

[daveliam]

There will always be people that can not accept homosexuality. Always. If no one knows what you are into no one can judge you. This is not the main reason I feel the way I do, but it is an aspect that would make a lot of problems disappear.

 

Yikes.  I don't agree with this at all.  The problems wouldn't disappear at all.  They would just be masked.  This is what happened for hundreds of years in western society and it's what led to the "closet", which is a sad and awful way to live.  We are in a time of unrest, as there are several major civil rights issues that are being discussed globally.  In another 50 years, I expect that homophobia will be much more socially unacceptable and it will be less of an issue.  But that's only because it's being challenged.  Societal change takes time and it's uncomfortable during that time of change.

 

I agree with you that homophobia will never go away.  But I don't think that gay people hiding who they are is the best approach to take because it just keeps the status quo in place, which is really unhealthy for gay people.

[PinkDiamondstl]

They still can't/will force people to accept it either.

[daveliam]

They still can't/will force people to accept it either.

 

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[Battlebloodmage]

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She talked about being forced to accept homosexuality which is just ridiculous as no one forces her to accept it or even buy the game that goes against her principles. 

[PinkDiamondstl]

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Yeah I may be late to the party but I don't agree with half of what is being said here.How can a thread go from different sexualities to gay parades  and public sex?And how is any of this DAI related ? Were are the mods? ....Naping?