102 réponses à ce sujet

[Mes]

Well hello friends! 

 

I was thinking about this a lot recently and thought it would be good to get a discussion going. I've been hearing a few arguments lately for what people would like to see in DAI that incorporate the words "realism" or "realistic". This usually comes up in threads to do with female characters or female representation, but it can pop up basically anywhere. Just now I saw an argument regarding companion sexuality where the person said they wouldn't appreciate playersexual characters because that wouldn't be "realistic."

 

So my question to you is: Do you think realism is something that matters in a fantasy game like Dragon Age, and if so, to what capacity?

 

Personally, I'm not a fan of the "realism" argument (it's right up there with the "resources" one for me ). I find that people end up picking and choosing what they feel should be realistic in the game, rendering the argument inconsistent and ultimately irrelevant.

 

Thoughts?

 

 

 

 

[ME_Fan]

Frankly the main things that bug me in the Dragon Age world in regards to realism are the goofily oversized weapons, and oversized, physically impossible buildings and monuments in the art design. Why so many people felt so immersed in a game like Skyrim, for instance, was partly due to the fact that the game felt somewhat grounded in what was physically possible in the world, more like our own, so people could related more easily.

When it comes to other things like the society, it's not a problem, because it is fantasy after all. But when you have humanoid characters who for the most part have the same physical limitations as we do, except that they can effortlessly fling around 8 foot long great swords like they weigh nothing, then I can't help but face palm.

[KainD]

So my question to you is: Do you think realism is something that matters in a fantasy game like Dragon Age, and if so, to what capacity?

 

Setting must match itself. A fantasy world might have different realism standards, ( thedas might have different laws of physics for all we know ) if that is intact I do like realism.

 

God, almost thought it was another ''curve'' thread. 

[Mes]

Good point regarding the physical world! I was so focused on the social aspect of realism that I forgot about that. I agree with you, ME_Fan.

[KainD]

Good point regarding the physical world! I was so focused on the social aspect of realism that I forgot about that. I agree with you, ME_Fan.

 

Social aspect in fantasy games is for the writer to establish from scratch, as it is completely unrelated to the real world. 

[MisterJB]

I think realism is only really important in world building and social interaction.

For instance, I honestly couldn't care less if a sufficiently levelled warrior is capable of breaking down a metal door with two hits from his shield. On the other hand, a marine punching a reporter on live televisions and suffering no adverse consequences is something that tremendously bothers me.

[Mes]

Social aspect in fantasy games is for the writer to establish from scratch, as it is completely unrelated to the real world. 

 

I agree. Which is why I don't understand the point of arguing "realism" in that sense, such as the playersexual companions example. 

[KainD]

I think realism is only really important in world building and social interaction.

For instance, I honestly couldn't care less if a sufficiently levelled warrior is capable of breaking down a metal door with two hits from his shield. On the other hand, a marine punching a reporter on live televisions and suffering no adverse consequences is something that tremendously bothers me.

 

A marine? 

[ajramsey]

If you want realism based off our world well...there wouldnt be any magic...there wouldnt be any female warriors, no dragons..guys would be fighting in horribly made armor or something that was too heavy to move in or hardly any at all.

 

I honestly hate the realism debate...its fantasy...let the creators decide what type of realism they want for that world.

[KainD]

If you want realism based off our world well..there wouldnt be any female warriors.

 

[Master Warder Z_]

in a game like Skyrim, for instance, was partly due to the fact that the game felt somewhat grounded in what was physically possible

 

TES has had a floating Castle/Fortress in it.

 

._.

[ME_Fan]

TES has had a floating Castle/Fortress in it.

._.

'Skyrim'

Yes in that world there do exist major feats of physics defying magic. But on a day to day basis of the average joe in that world, their physical limitations match our own.

[MisterJB]

My 100 Heavy Armor Dragonborn took dragonfire to his unprotected face like it was a goddamn hot bath.

[Master Warder Z_]

'Skyrim'

 

._. Just saying.

 

You picked the wrong universe for "fantasy realism."

[CybAnt1]

there wouldnt be any female warriors, 

 

You might want to read up on Queen Boadicea/Boudica. 

 

Let alone Joan of Arc. 

 

I must admit a pet peeve of mine is when people say things in games are unrealistic to our world, when they actually are wrong about what our world is like, or has been like historically. 

[Mes]

You might want to read up on Queen Boadicea/Boudica. 

 

Let alone Joan of Arc. 

 

Hmm yeah I was thinking the same. 

 

This is another reason why the realism argument doesn't work, for me. I know the poster is also against it, but it highlights to me the problem of some of us not having a full grasp of what realism is even in our world.

[ME_Fan]

._. Just saying.
 
You picked the wrong universe for "fantasy realism."

You're clearly not getting what I saying. It's fantasy yeah and there do exist major feats of physics defying magic. But on a day to day basis of an average joe in that world, their physical limitations match our own.

[Faerlyte]

My only real issues with realism, or lack thereof, is when it comes to the plot devices, in particular the enemy. Often in fantasy lore the enemy is a distinct race all its own that is composed entirely of evil, which obviously provides convenient canon fodder for the good guys, but it's not realistic at all. Not in any world, magical or not. 

 

And I disapprove of the statement that women cannot be warriors in the real world. 

[ajramsey]

You might want to read up on Queen Boadicea/Boudica. 

 

Let alone Joan of Arc. 

 

I must admit a pet peeve of mine is when people say things in games are unrealistic to our world, when they actually are wrong about what our world is like, or has been like historically. 

 

 

I'm well aware that there were females out there that fought. Don't get me wrong, I just meant as a whole like the amount you would see in a game. I should have rephrased it.

[EmissaryofLies]

I'm for Dragon Age Origins if we're talking realism. Unmodded, as it is. 

 

Keep the super saiyan lightsaber Merediths to yourself, Bioware. 

[CybAnt1]

Hell, I would say Andraste is probably based on Boudica and Joan of Arc (some people say Jesus as well, but he wasn't a warrior).

 

Those are often examples cited as her inspiration. But, you know, I just found something interesting while I was checking this article. I honestly didn't know this until I just read it. 

 

There are some other lesser-known examples of women warriors given ... but here's the sentence that caught my eye. 

 

http://en.wikipedia....folklore#Europe

 

Andraste is a Celtic war goddess invoked^[15] by Boudica while fighting against the Roman occupation of Britain in 61 CE

 

[end]

 

(elsewhere from Wikipedia) 

Andraste, also known as Andrasta or Andred, was, according to the Roman historian Dio Cassius, an Icenic war goddess invoked by Boudica in her fight against the Roman occupation of Britain in AD 60.[1] She may be the same as Andate, mentioned later by the same source, and described as "their name for Victory": i.e., the goddess Victoria.[2] Thayer asserts that she may be related to Andarta also. The goddess Victoria is related to Nike, Bellona, Magna Mater (Great Mother), Cybele, and Vacuna—goddesses who are often depicted on chariots.

 

[end]

 

So the DA Andraste may be based on Boudica, but it seems she's named for Boudica's Celtic goddess patroness. 

 

An even more detailed page on the Celtic warrior goddess.

http://www.thewhiteg...ior_goddess.asp

 

This should also grab peoples' attention. Of course, the reference here is to an Irish warrior goddess. 

 

Andraste is a warrior goddess, the goddess of victory, of ravens and of battles, similar in many ways to the Irish war goddess Morrigan.

 

[snip]

 

She is linked with Morrigan known as the Great Queen in Ireland. She is also associated with the triple war goddess whose three persons are Nemain (Frenzy), Badb Catha (Battle Raven) and Macha (Crow) whose sacred birds were fed allowed to feed on the stake impaled heads of those slaughtered in battle.

 

[end]

 

(Looks over at the raven/crow to the right of the screen, which has garnered so much attention.) 

[naddaya]

I'm well aware that there were females out there that fought. Don't get me wrong, I just meant as a whole like the amount you would see in a game. I should have rephrased it.

 

Most men in real life are weak. Most women don't train.

 

I've worked in the fitness industry. The average woman can get strong enough to wield a heavy one-handed sword without gear, provided she's willing to gain some fat as well. The thing about natural strength training is that, besides not gaining that much compared to "enhanced" people, you tend to lose more muscle if you diet. Losing body fat, you lose strength. The average woman here is weaker than the average men however, there's no arguing that. Giant two-handed swords would be troublesome, but then again if you're looking for strict realism only the Qunari could use them.

 

That said, people seem to be stronger in Thedas than in this world in general, without considering their gender. Beside that, there's a few perfectly reasonable explanations for women being as strong as men in DA. Heavier estrogen/testosterone production (contrary to popular belief, estrogen boosts your strength too), more hgh, higher natural muscle density etc. We don't know how strong is the Average Joe in Thedas, but there seems to be a lot of capable fighters around.