340 réponses à ce sujet

[Thumb Fu]

Hah i see what you did thar!

counter point: If you're not rolling a female, you're playing the game wrong.

[grumpymooselion]

I've got to be honest . . . the gender discussion has always perplexed me. I literally just jump into the shoes of a character, regardless of gender. Male. Female. Whatever. Neither bothers me in the least. The idea that playing as a gender other than my one's could be an issue, whatever that issue is, for some people . . . it's always been a completely alien concept to me. Just as alien as trying to understand why anyone else would care what gender I played in a game, given the option. I was even more confused when I saw companies spitting out, "Our protagonist is male because our audience wouldn't be comfortable playing as a female" lines. It really doesn't make sense to me.

 

My own personal logic just does not think of these things. I'm playing as a character, I'm stepping into the shoes of someone else, and I'm having fun trying to figure out what they're do in a given situation. That's it. How this could be made into an issue, for the person playing the character, or by someone observing them play the character, is just so alien that I cannot, at all, even begin to understand. I've seen it explain countless ways and I just do not understand. It's like they're speaking a foreign language.

 

I've played games as so many characters that I've lost count and I'll play many more before my time is done. They're game characters. They're not me. They're a little story in my head, their gender is a part of that story and the decisions they make are me retelling the same story in different ways to enrich the experience.

[brightblueink]

The plain and simple truth is that clothing, despite how much some people may whine at it, is a huge part of characterization. Including armor. It's why elegant characters wear elegant clothing, why thieves dress like thieves, why brute warriors dress like brute warriors. It establishes the character.

 

The reality of that is characters are not going to dress in identical bulky armor despite that perhaps being the most 'practical' solution for combat.

 

Part of that reality is feminine characters having a feminine figure and silhouette.

No, that's not really the reality.

 

First of all, you're assuming that "feminine" automatically means "large, obvious breasts," when there's plenty of feminine women out there that might not have large breasts to begin with.

 

Secondly, if a character is a soldier, even if they care about people seeing their feminine figure they're probably going to care more about not dying on the battlefield. To have them wearing armor that wouldn't actually protect them is silly, and doesn't really make sense for the character (unless they're extremely vain or have some sort of death wish). That doesn't mean that women can't wear skimpy clothing and have that be part of their characterization--for example, Morrigan's outfit made some amount of sense to me in Origins--but if you want them on the battlefield then almost the only way that would make sense is if they're someone that needs as much freedom of movement as possible and would avoid the front lines at all costs (like a mage, which is why I don't mind it as much with Morrigan).

 

Thirdly, you can even have a feminine figure while still wearing armor that's actually protective. Here's an example from the Narnia movies. She has a clearly defined waist, breasts and hips, but her armor still looks like it could protect her and she still looks like she could move around well (outside of the skirt, but it's still better than boob cups).

[ImperatorMortis]

I only play as women.

 

I roleplay that **** all day everyday. 

 

 

Hah i see what you did thar!

counter point: If you're not rolling a female, you're playing the game wrong.

 

This guy knows. 

[Dreadstruck]

Hah i see what you did thar!

counter point: If you're not rolling a female, you're playing the game wrong.

 

Objection. If you're not rolling a dwarf, then you're playing the game wrong and should uninstall it as well.

[In Exile]

Morrigan's outfit made some amount of sense to me in Origins--but if you want them on the battlefield then almost the only way that would make sense is if they're someone that needs as much freedom of movement as possible and would avoid the front lines at all costs (like a mage, which is why I don't mind it as much with Morrigan).

 

It's also worth noting that, gameplay aside, mages can turn their skin to stone which is a pretty big plus compared to wearing metal armour. The other thing is that armour is really exhausting for people who aren't used to wearing it. It's why soldier's have to train and be in good physical shape to carry their equipment. 

[Giggles_Manically]

Anyone just play both genders to see all the content?

I mean I kinda did for Bioware games.

 

Even if some of it is just being called a stripper.

[JakeLeTDK]

Anyone just play both genders to see all the content?
I mean I kinda did for Bioware games.
 
Even if some of it is just being called a stripper.

Same here. I'm one of those that leave no stones unturned, especially in bioware games lol

Personally I have no problem role play a female character. That is if they do have different content for different gender. One thing though,I really hate those games that let women wear overly expose armor. It's impractical, juvenile, and cheapen female characters imo. Thanks god Bioware isnt one of those devs.

[Xilizhra]

The plain and simple truth is that clothing, despite how much some people may whine at it, is a huge part of characterization. Including armor. It's why elegant characters wear elegant clothing, why thieves dress like thieves, why brute warriors dress like brute warriors. It establishes the character.

 

The reality of that is characters are not going to dress in identical bulky armor despite that perhaps being the most 'practical' solution for combat.

 

Part of that reality is feminine characters having a feminine figure and silhouette.

Erm, wouldn't Aveline put the lie to some of this? Cassandra's armor also seems reasonable.

[The Sarendoctrinator]

My number of male and female characters in BioWare games is about equal. I create the characters as I would when writing a story, with different personalities/opinions/background/gender etc. I never play them as a representation of myself, but a lot of players do, which is probably a main reason why some will only play one gender. For me, it would be the same as taking an already established character of mine and changing something major about them - too much disconnect, it might not seem like the same person. That's just my theory.

 

I know voice acting is a deciding factor for some players too. Personally, it doesn't matter as much to me. If the voice matches up with what the character sounds like in my mind, that's awesome (and this happened for my main Hawke), but if not then I'll just imagine the necessary alterations. 

[Nefla]

The plain and simple truth is that clothing, despite how much some people may whine at it, is a huge part of characterization. Including armor. It's why elegant characters wear elegant clothing, why thieves dress like thieves, why brute warriors dress like brute warriors. It establishes the character.

 

The reality of that is characters are not going to dress in identical bulky armor despite that perhaps being the most 'practical' solution for combat.

 

Part of that reality is feminine characters having a feminine figure and silhouette.

That's part of the problem, men in games are portrayed as "thieves and brute warriors" as well as physically weak scientists, rich old men, dashing pirates, chubby shop owners, heroic space marines, etc...why are women restricted to only being portrayed as a "feminine figure and silhouette" in most games no matter who they are, what they like, what they believe in, etc...Why is the woman who is supposedly a battle hardened and experienced warrior wearing a metal bikini that doesn't protect her in the slightest while the male equivalent is wearing full armor and helmet that makes sense and protects him? Why is the male scientist someone with average or below looks and again, practical attire but the female scientist looks like a playboy bunny version of a scientist (complete with mini skirt and blouse unbuttoned to her navel)with glasses on? Why does the male always get something that showcases his personality and is effective for his profession yet the female is shown as nothing more than a themed pair of boobs?

 

This is a problem. This is something that prevents men and women alike from identifying with female characters.

[efd731]

Ignoring the gender studies discussion for now to answer op. I do a fairly balanced amount of both genders in DA. Alistair was always female ranced always in origins........and merril/Isabella by both genders in 2. Because anders and fenris can go jump in a fade tear. Don't like FemShep's voice actor, so only 1 FemShep across all of ME....with garrus....because reasons.

[Bob from Accounting]

That's part of the problem, men in games are portrayed as "thieves and brute warriors" as well as physically weak scientists, rich old men, dashing pirates, chubby shop owners, heroic space marines, etc...why are women restricted to only being portrayed as a "feminine figure and silhouette" in most games no matter who they are, what they like, what they believe in, etc...Why is the woman who is supposedly a battle hardened and experienced warrior wearing a metal bikini that doesn't protect her in the slightest while the male equivalent is wearing full armor and helmet that makes sense and protects him? Why is the male scientist someone with average or below looks and again, practical attire but the female scientist looks like a playboy bunny version of a scientist (complete with mini skirt and blouse unbuttoned to her navel)with glasses on? Why does the male always get something that showcases his personality and is effective for his profession yet the female is shown as nothing more than a themed pair of boobs?

 

This is a problem. This is something that prevents men and women alike from identifying with female characters.

 

Slow down. Let's tackle things one issue at a time.

 

First of all, I don't know about 'metal bikinis,' but you just quoted the reason straight from me. It establishes character, as I said. It's the reason why characters like Vivianne wear the clothing she wears instead of armor. Why a character established as a cat thief wears a cat suit. Why a priestess wears robes and why a scientist character wears a scientific-looking outfit. And yes, that means wearing them alongside characters that wear heavier armor.

 

So...what do you have to add here to convince me? You're not revealing any new information or reasoning. I already see what's happening.

[Mockingword]

Slow down. Let's tackle things one issue at a time.

 

First of all, I don't know about 'metal bikinis,' but you just quoted the reason straight from me. It establishes character, as I said. It's the reason why characters like Vivianne wear the clothing she wears instead of armor. Why a character established as a cat thief wears a cat suit. Why a priestess wears robes and why a scientist character wears a scientific-looking outfit. And yes, that means wearing them alongside characters that wear heavier armor.

 

So...what do you have to add here to convince me? You're not revealing any new information or reasoning. I already see what's happening.

Okay, look, you either "don't know about metal bikinis", or you recognise that the outfits that women are given to "establish character" also very frequently sexualise their bodies at the expense of practicality and common-sense.

 

Because you said you already see what's happening. So which is it? Do you know, or do you not know?

 

And if you do see that female characters are being sexualised, do you think this sexualisation is necessary for their characterisation as females? Why? Or why not?

[Vapaa]

First of all, I don't know about 'metal bikinis,' but you just quoted the reason straight from me. It establishes character, as I said. It's the reason why characters like Vivianne wear the clothing she wears instead of armor.

 

Whaaaat ?

 

Vivienne wear mages robes that contains armor for protection, besides it's fully concealing and even avoid boobplates.

 

Chinmail bikinis are weared by women warriors for the sole purpose of titilation, that's two entirely different animals.

[Bob from Accounting]

Okay, look, you either "don't know about metal bikinis", or you recognise that the outfits that women are given to "establish character" also very frequently sexualise their bodies at the expense of practicality and common-sense.

 

Because you said you already see what's happening. So which is it? Do you know, or do you not know?

 

And if you do see that female characters are being sexualised, do you think this sexualisation is necessary for their characterisation as females? Why? Or why not?

 

I'm getting a little irritated at the continual feigned gasps of sheer incredulity that a character would ever, ever wear something that isn't strictly the most 'practical' or 'sensible' option in combat.

 

Stop the presses! Not all characters in fiction, video games and particularly RPGs wear perhaps the most strictly practical clothing in combat! I had absolutely no idea! My eyes have been opened!

 

...

 

Characters not all wearing homogenous heavy armor despite it probably being the most practical option is far and away the norm, not the exception in RPGs. And this is for plenty of characters that are male as well as female.

 

And yes, often, part of that character being established is attractiveness.

[Vapaa]

I'm getting a little irritated at the continual feigned gasps of sheer incredulity that a character would ever, ever wear something that isn't strictly the most 'practical' or 'sensible' option in combat.

 

Stop the presses! Not all characters in fiction, video games and particularly RPGs wear perhaps the most strictly practical clothing in combat! I had absolutely no idea! My eyes have been opened!

 

...

 

Characters not all wearing homogenous heavy armor despite it probably being the most practical option is far and away the norm, not the exception in RPGs. And this is for plenty of characters that are male as well as female.

 

And yes, often, part of that character being established is attractiveness.

 

We all know that a lot of characters in fiction wear unpractical sexualized outfits, that doesn't mean we should keep quiet about this.

 

(I'll give you that it's kinda the wrong place to do it, since Bioware are the good students, but since the conversation streered there...)

[Bob from Accounting]

Did you happen to read Vivianne's entry on the blog? I recall it saying something along the lines of 'A thousand arrows would pierce her breast before she dons armor' or something like that.

 

And yes, her chest is somewhat exposed.

[Mockingword]

I'm getting a little irritated at the continual gasps of sheer incredulity that a character would ever, ever wear something that isn't strictly the most 'practical' or 'sensible' option in combat.

 

Stop the presses! Not all characters in fiction, video games and particularly RPGs wear perhaps the most strictly practical clothing in combat! I had absolutely no idea! My eyes have been opened!

 

...

 

Characters not all wearing homogenous heavy armor despite it probably being the most practical option is far and away the norm, not the exception in RPGs. And this is for plenty of characters that male as well as female.

 

So yes, often, part of that character being established is attractiveness.

I'm not "incredulous", I'm well aware of the tropes that infect fantasy. I'm also well aware that the reason these tropes exist is for titillation. If the male warrior has to worry about getting stabbed in the gut, then so does the female warrior. If the male scientist has to worry about being splashed with acid, then so does the female scientist.

 

No, I don't expect characters to always dress practically for their jobs, but that's because I know that a lot of writers and character designers are idiots. Rather than lowering my expectations for future content, I think instead that writers and character designers should stop being idiots.

 

No, fiction does not have to line up with reality in any way, but it still has to adhere to its own internal logic. If your fictional men and women both take the same dangerous jobs, and are both exposed to the same risks, then why do the men dress in functional, protective attire, while the women contrive to show off as much skin as they possibly can? Have you deliberately created a setting where being 'attractive' is so important to women that they will forego their own personal safety?

 

If you want to come up with some contrived excuse, like "Oh, her skin is as tough as diamonds, so she can totally wade into battle naked and smother her opponents with her gigantic breasts", then fine. But at least admit that you wrote that character for the purpose of titillating straight men.

[Cecore]

To answer the original question: I actually don't buy games that I can't play as a female character. Its never a choice; I will always be a female character. So I don't feel like I'm cheating myself on content, or that I'm not experiencing the whole game, because I'm playing it how I want to play it.

[Vapaa]

Did you read the comment of her character kit ? It says "What little armor she allows herself is cleverly hidden, and save for the rolled edges of her breast plate, there's little evidence of the hard steel beneath. The cuirass is wrapped in linen overlaid with strips of silk [...]".

 

And again Vivienne is a mage, mages wear mage robes, so her attire is perfectly suitable for the job.

[Bob from Accounting]

Those 'idiots' would include the Dragon Age staff for you, then?

 

You're going to run into a lot of problems sneering at the idea of people appreciating beauty.

[Vapaa]

 

You're going to run into a lot of problems sneering at the idea of people appreciating beauty.

 

I don't find chainmail bikinis as beautiful or even arousing, they just look ridiculous and out of place.

[Cyonan]

If they're going to have eye candy then they should be fair about it.

 

Have a male warrior running around in a metal speedo wielding a giant 2-handed mace, even though it doesn't fit his character in the slightest.

[GreyLycanTrope]

If you want to come up with some contrived excuse, like "Oh, her skin is as tough as diamonds, so she can totally wade into battle naked and smother her opponents with her gigantic breasts", then fine. But at least admit that you wrote that character for the purpose of titillating straight men.

I think we can be a bit more creative.