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[In Exile]

 

Secondly, Game of Thrones is praised because it is not complicit with the misogyny it portrays. The society is sexist, but GRRM categorically shows us how awful this is by giving us heaps of female characters who explore this aspect of society. We see through their eyes, hear their thoughts, and empathise with their struggles in a system that strips them of power, and shows us the various ways women seek to assert control over their own lives (or the lives of others) - whether its to eschew femininity altogether and become outcast (like Brienne and Arya) or 'play the game' (like Sansa and Cersei), or even take advantage of the unique attributes of femininity that is normally used against them and turn it into the greatest rallying cry for seizing power (Danaerys rising to power as a symbol of motherhood, both to dragons and the people she conquers). Game of Thrones has an abundance of female characters who are all unique, who don't just exist to pleasure men, and who are as important to the plot and the course of history as any male character. 

 

 

It's also worth noting that the show is criticized for how it portrays sex (often being the gratuitous female kind, with pretty much only Theon ever being used for eye candy). And GRRM isn't above criticism for some of his portrayals. And, yeah, it's pretty arguable that Daenerys is the protagonist of the entire series, so there's that.   

[Dreadstruck]

Firstly, because the witcher is not a realistic portrayal of women or sex - men in the middle ages didn't get a printed card with a nude picture of the woman he just banged. And there are few if any women that are fully realised characters and not there solely for the purpose of offering sexual gratification for the main character (and by extension, the player). Treating women like objects to conquer is not a reality of the place the game is set, it's a game mechanic. The excuse of 'well, the middle-ages were sexist' is pretty thin at that point, since it's clear the game isn't portraying realistic sexism normally found in that era or even condemning it - it's revelling in standard sexual objectification as something to reward players with.

 

What a bunch of crap. But how much do you actually known about the Witcher universe, lore, books or hell, even characters apart from the usual "it's a game where girls are objectified and I hate it!", so you could brush it off as that? I could also use that entire last paragraph to justify and mention various female leads from TW. It works both ways, ignorant one.

 

And perhaps I worded it really vaguely, but my comparison was mostly about comparing the worlds themselves, as opposed to Game vs TV series because the Witcher lore and universe is much more expansive than that and offers much more than your dreaded sex cards from a non-canon video game (even the politics aspect is much more profound than anything). Don't get me wrong, Martin is a good writer and raises some interesting questions and issues, but having read Andrzej Sapkowski as well (the creator of Witcher) I don't really consider George to be the shining beacon of mature portrayal of a middle ages fantasy society everybody makes him out to be.

 

PS: I get the impression that most people whining about the sex cards have never played the game itself, or did and didn't even get past the first 15 minutes. It's the only thing they want to see and will argue about even though it's an issue that has been acknowledged and ironed out of the subsequent games.

 

But then again, hating the Witcher is a popular, white-knighted and encouraged action on this board and people will simply leap at the opportunity to take a stab at it. Ignorance will breed ignorance as usual. 

[In Exile]

 

PS: I get the impression that most people whining about the sex cards have never played the game itself, or did and didn't even get past the first 15 minutes. It's the only thing they want to see and will argue about even though it's an issue that has been acknowledged and ironed out of the subsequent games.

 

Ves's portrayal in TW2 was much, much worse than anything the sex-cards ever did. Objectifying women is one thing, but the portrayal of sexual abuse victims is something else, and their portrayal of Ves showed a pretty callous attitude toward that which involved a significant number of stereotypes. 

[Lulupab]

I really love to roleplay. In my rebellious mage playthroughs I play gay male (I am straight female). I feel like it adds to the rebel mood. Maybe its just me but a male Hawke kissing Anders after what he did seems far more rebellious than female.

 

Also on Witcher, Geralt is a premade character whom we have almost no control over. In matters of freedom and customization the Witcher is far behind Dragon Age therefore it should not even mentioned in a roleplaying topic. There is no role to be played, one is set before you and you replay it.

[Dreadstruck]

Ves's portrayal in TW2 was much, much worse than anything the sex-cards ever did. Objectifying women is one thing, but the portrayal of sexual abuse victims is something else, and Ves showed a pretty callous attitude toward that which involved a significant number of stereotypes. 

 

Not sure if I understand you correctly, which steoreotype is that?

 

EDIT: Hold on, I actually remember.

 

I admit that the whole Ves being raped storyline was weird as hell. First of all, she was raped by Henselt...even Henselt confirmed this when you fight him. But as you said, she didn't seem all that broken up by it. In fact, she didn't even seem upset at all. Henselt said she enjoyed it or whatever. I think he was speaking the truth.

 

Then Geralt suspects her of something after they found her in the tent. He basically calls her a liar, which angers Roche. The devs dropped the ball on that one. I was actually very intrigued by Ves' behavior after the massacre of the Blue Stripes and her being raped. You just never saw her again in chapter 3. Very odd and definitely a loose end if you chose Roche's path.

[In Exile]

 

I admit that the whole Ves being raped storyline was weird as hell. First of all, she was raped by Henselt...even Henselt confirmed this when you fight him. But as you said, she didn't seem all that broken up by it. In fact, she didn't even seem upset at all. Henselt said she enjoyed it or whatever. I think he was speaking the truth.

That's part of it, but I actually meant her background. She was brutally raped by the Sco'iatel for years until Roche saved her. It's pretty much part of this trope: http://tvtropes.org/...RapeAsBackstory except she's totally and definetly over it and doesn't just hook up with Geralt, but even uses her sexuality as a weapon for the Blue Stripes. The way she's abused and thrown aside via the Henselt thing is bad, but it wasn't what I was thinking about. 

[AlanC9]

Firstly, because the witcher is not a realistic portrayal of women or sex - men in the middle ages didn't get a printed card with a nude picture of the woman he just banged. And there are few if any women that are fully realised characters and not there solely for the purpose of offering sexual gratification for the main character (and by extension, the player). Treating women like objects to conquer is not a reality of the place the game is set, it's a game mechanic. The excuse of 'well, the middle-ages were sexist' is pretty thin at that point, since it's clear the game isn't portraying realistic sexism normally found in that era or even condemning it - it's revelling in standard sexual objectification as something to reward players with. 

 

I don't think you're being quite fair about the card mechanic. It's there as a substitute for the, um,  other rewards gained by "banging" women. Current video game technology doesn't permit integrating those rewards -- at least, not without a lot of specialized hardware which most players don't currently have. Teledildonics is still in its infancy.

[ManOfSteel]

I don't "roleplay" to any degree. However, I have no problem playing as a female when I play a game. Sometimes I prefer it. Other times I don't. Depends entirely on the game. I also have no problem if the protagonist cannot be customized or edited at all. Le shrug. 

[TKavatar]

I would hate for this thread to get closed so please don't stray too far off topic.

[Dreadstruck]

That's part of it, but I actually meant her background. She was brutally raped by the Sco'iatel for years until Roche saved her. It's pretty much part of this trope: http://tvtropes.org/...RapeAsBackstory except she's totally and definetly over it and doesn't just hook up with Geralt, but even uses her sexuality as a weapon for the Blue Stripes. The way she's abused and thrown aside via the Henselt thing is bad, but it wasn't what I was thinking about. 

Gotcha. Sorry, I am czech so the language barrier isn't really helping sometimes.

 

While they could have thought of a more original and less "must-be-shocking" backstory, I can still respect their decision to establish the character in a way they've wanted. Even though it's not exactly graceful.

Come to think of it.. even Jack from Mass Effect 2 (or Betsy from New Vegas if you are Cherchez la Femme) seems to be the same or at least similiar case of the trope as well.

 

In any case, I suppose we just agree to disagree. I suggest we kill this discussion right here to avoid this thread being locked.

[AllThatJazz]

For me it isn't so much that I dislike playing as male, necessarily, as that because in so many games I have to play as male, when I'm offered the opportunity to play as female I take advantage of that. Some of my favourite games don't allow me that choice, so it's something I really appreciate when it's there.

[theflyingzamboni]

I am completely fed up with alpha males running around my games, spraying testosterone everywhere.

I love this imagery. So much.

Personally, I used to play exclusively male protagonists when I was younger, but as I got older and realized how few female game characters there really are, and how oversaturated the medium is with grizzled white males, I've pushed back against that. In basically every BioWare game I have a particular mostly-self-insert character that I play whenever I get the chance, but I now split about 50-50 between male and female characters. I plan to make my first Inquisition character a female non-human. I won't be part of your default statistical group BioWare!

[SurelyForth]

For future reference, I think anyone who seriously uses the term "misandrist" during a discussion about video game rp preference doesn't deserve the attention required to debate him. 

 

Nobody is can be called misandrist because they're sick of their entertainment experiences being forced through the lens of the straight white dude experience, while people who look like them are shoved into supporting roles of little import, often times to be assaulted or kidnapped or killed to serve as motivation for the main straight white dude. The fact that you can't comprehend what it's like to have so few options to see yourself reflected in the shows you like and the games you play means you are really, really lucky. Stop looking for reasons to vilify people who aren't so much. 

[Heimdall]

Just for the record, just because so many video game protagonists offer the "straight white dude" experience, doesn't mean us straight white guys find anything to connect with in those experiences or are happy with them.

[Dreadstruck]

For future reference, I think anyone who seriously uses the term "misandrist" during a discussion about video game rp preference doesn't deserve the attention required to debate him. 
 
Nobody is can be called misandrist because they're sick of their entertainment experiences being forced through the lens of the straight white dude experience, while people who look like them are shoved into supporting roles of little import, often times to be assaulted or kidnapped or killed to serve as motivation for the main straight white dude. The fact that you can't comprehend what it's like to have so few options to see yourself reflected in the shows you like and the games you play means you are really, really lucky. Stop looking for reasons to vilify people who aren't so much.

 
I suppose that's aimed at me? If so, then at least adress me directly.
 
Besides, I've already clarified it had nothing to do with people with valid preferences or complaints, but mostly the crowd that seems to get out of their way to belittle the either gender in various medias (theirs or someone elses). In hindsight, it was perhaps not the bestest idea to use those two terms, seeing how people just can't grasp the context.
 
Speaking of which, "often times to be assaulted or kidnapped or killed to serve as motivation for the main straight white dude"? If anyone is getting out of their way to vilify someone, it's not me. So please, clarify? O.o

[cactusberry]

I am female and I always play a female character when given the chance. I just can't connect to a male lead like I can a female lead. It always feels like something's missing, and I don't really enjoy it. I don't play games that force you to play as a male, either. 

[SurelyForth]

I suppose that's aimed at me? If so, then at least adress me directly.

 

Besides, I've already clarified it had nothing to do with people with valid preferences or complaints, but mostly the crowd that seems to get out of their way to belittle the either gender in various medias (theirs or someone elses). In hindsight, it was perhaps not the bestest idea to use those two terms, seeing how people just can't grasp the context.

 

Speaking of which, "often times to be assaulted or kidnapped or killed to serve as motivation for the main straight white dude"? If anyone is getting out of their way to vilify someone, it's not me. So please, clarify? O.o

 

I tend to get cagey when I see them side by side, because, well, a lot of things. Anyway, thank you for the re-clarification.

 

As for the latter, here's a link to TV Tropes regarding Women in Refrigerators. 

 

 

Just for the record, just because so many video game protagonists offer the "straight white dude" experience, doesn't mean us straight white guys find anything to connect with in those experiences or are happy with them.

 

 

Oh, I know. My boyfriend is a straight white dude who is underserved by the typical action hero/video game protagonist, but I think anyone who pushes back against people who avoid such protagonists is not in that boat. Or they are, but they're playing Devil's Advocate and at that point, eh. 

[Rosey]

*sneaks in and snuggles Surely*

 

Now that I've settled that... *clears throat* Lets steer the topic back on track.

 

As a female gamer, being able to play as my own gender is huge and I always take the opportunity if it comes. As a little girl I would watch my brothers play Legend of Zelda and could never quite figure out (and honestly it still baffles the hell out of me) why Link was the main character when the game is named after the princess. As I grew into being a gamer, I stuck to simulation/RTS games, Mmo's, and games where the main character was literally faceless/voiceless/not "human-like" because for me it's always been difficult to play as a male. It never felt right, and I really couldn't enjoy the experience. A LOT of games I've bought over the years have sat unfinished because I just couldn't find a good enough reason, compelling story or not, to finish. I could never wrap my head around being the Super Badass Scruffy Whiteguy Big GD Hero.

 

Mass Effect is, in fact, the very first series that I have ever been able to play as a Male character, and that has almost exclusively to do with the fact that I really just wanted to romance Tali, and as a Female I couldn't. And Honestly I really love my Male Shepard as much as my Female Shepard, because to me they are just genderswapped versions of the same character. They make the same choices and react in the same manor. They have the same hair/eye color, and as close as I could get to the same facial features.

 

Even in the Dragon Age games, I have almost exclusively female PC's. And while I DO have one Male Hawke, even finishing the game that I had already played through a dozen times was a struggle for me.

 

Honestly I'm not sure WHY I have such a hard time playing as male characters, and that difficulty has reduced by heaps and bounds in the last few years... but I always feel more comfortable being able to slip into the skin of a female character then I have ever have playing as a male.

 

Which is why, I think, I love Bioware games so very, very much. Because they give me a CHOICE. They give me the chance to say, "I am a female, and I am going to save the world."

[nightscrawl]

For me it's all about aesthetics. My primary choice is female because I am one. But if I can manage to create a decent looking guy, I'll play as one. My roleplay consists of having background and motivations, and those are what inform my dialog responses to people and the actions that I take. I don't worry about what a man might do in a particular situation. For me, a male and female PC are just as likely to have the same response, and for the same reason. Happily, the dialog in BioWare games allows for this.

 

That said, I can understand why someone might not want to play outside their real gender. Sometimes the way men think and behave seems completely foreign to me. Likewise, no matter how women try to explain certain things to men, they will never be able to completely understand because it will never happen to them. If gender identity is important to you while roleplaying, and is something that might inform your decisions, you might feel uncomfortable roleplaying as a gender you have no experience being.

[Cyonan]

I can get why somebody wouldn't want to play outside of their gender, although for me it doesn't bother me to play as either. I have an idea as to the sort of character I want to play before I've started the game and sometimes it's male, sometimes it's female.

 

I've even played as the opposite gender in D&D where you don't get to choose from a couple of pre-defined dialogue choices.

[Cyonan]

Computer games are easier for me. I feel like I'm just crafting my own stories this way.

 

D&D is something I'd probably never do. Mostly because I'd be sitting around with friends, and half of the exchanges are in character and as ourselves. Part social, part gaming (more gaming than roleplaying. Akin to playing a board game).

 

Computer games have plenty of benefits. I find it a fair bit easier to role play on them since you're given a set of dialogue to choose from rather than making up your own on the spot. Additionally since in BioWare games I'm allowed to walk away and come back 20 hours later if I wish, I can also take as much time as I want to think about it.

 

To be honest, any of the D&D I've done has been pretty half and half between being in-character and as ourselves. I do feel like it gives you more freedom to role play though, as you're allowed to technically say anything you want to.

[jncicesp]

I have enough games(games that I think are great!) that I only can be a guy but If I have the choice im sticking with female until my.. 9th playthrough. 

 

if the gender doesnt matter I Could play as a guy and not be upset but not otherwise, I really cant help how annoyed it makes me just by seeing how different they make things because of gender. if it makes me upset then im just going to ignore the choice.

I Could choose to only play as male and not female.

 

Only time I could play as a guy and complete the game was in Dragon age 2 because I wanted to see Fenris romance. as much as I want to playthrough with an Anders romance, he was just to much of a jerk to Everyone except for Varric for me to even like. I only end up with high friendship with him because I liked mages.

[Battlebloodmage]

I really don't care who you play as, but what I have issue with is people ridiculing others for playing as a female, and calling the person who does it as gay or weird. If you're comfortable with your sexuality and who you are then you shouldn't put others down for doing it.

 

"Girls can wear jeans and cut their hair short, wear shirts and boots because it's okay to be a boy, but for a boy to look like a girl is degrading, because you think that being a girl is degrading.