214 réponses à ce sujet

[A.Kazama]

Okay so every now and then I walked into a thread regarding PC back stories and whats so good about them, so I thought I'd make one specific to the topic...

(Sorry if there's already been a thread like this, but I'm gonna start this one anyway)

 

In regards to the special snowflake syndrome that appears in many games. 

 

e.g. Tidus = Not Being Real

Revan = Super powerful darklord

Marth = Wields a sword restricted to his Bloodline

AND in the case we are soon to have (From what I've recently gathered)

Inquisitor = Ability to seal and open Veil Tears... 
(I'm sure there are many more examples but those were from the top of my head)

 

Now. I've never had anything against special snowflake syndrome, in fact, I've found it to make the story more engaging and interesting as a whole, and the fact that my MC is at the epicenter of a great story while having the power over most things (in this case: Veil Tears) to be pretty darn cool.

 

Of course this is my opinion and your more than welcome to disagree with an opinion of your own, but my question is this...
 

Do any of you have anything against Special Snowflakes? If so why? But if you do like them what makes them engaging to you? 

[SwobyJ]

I'd rather be a nobody that fashions his epicnessocity through the game's plot, not through a previous history or initial event.

 

I'm generally okay with what Bioware does, sure, but I find something compelling about fully willingly stepping into the future, rather than having it chosen for my character by the external.

 

It's like.. I'd prefer if Mass Effect never got the Prothian vision stuck in his head at all, sometimes. Sometimes.

[I SOLD MY SOUL TO BIOWARE]

I find there are very specific stories where Joe Schmoes work.

 

A story of a person put in charge of an organization to stop demons pouring from a hole in the sky while the world goes to s*** isn't one of them.

[Han Yolo]

I don't have anything against special snowflakes. It's just so mainstream. I really loved that random-mercenary-who-just-happens-to-have-skill-galore-vibe I got from Hawke. It was refreshing not being the only lass able to stop the great vile evil to save the world and all.

[In Exile]

Every single protagonist in every single RPG is a special snowflake. Even if you aren't literally chosen by a god to save the world, you're an amazing uber badass who can murder everything in existence. Your great role is to be a killing machine. Hawke fails at the plot, but Hawke's still a super killing machine of awesome kungfu-crushing. The only difference between Hawke and the Warden is that murdering every single problem works out great for the Warden but somehow doesn't for Hawke. 

 

Any story where you have to do something important, and the PC isn't average. Because if he or she was, then the threat would be irrelevant. That's what being average means: you don't have any appreciable talent or skill that will ever allow you to do anything of note. The fact that someone hasn't done something of note yet doesn't mean they're average. But being average means they won't ever do it. 

[SilkieBantam]

I thought Tidus's specialty was his uncanny resemblance to Meg Ryan and his spot on seagull mating call.

[Allan Schumacher]

I don't have anything against special snowflakes. It's just so mainstream. I really loved that random-mercenary-who-just-happens-to-have-skill-galore-vibe I got from Hawke. It was refreshing not being the only lass able to stop the great vile evil to save the world and all.

 

This is similar to myself as well.

 

I liked the idea we had with Hawke, in that he was much less of a "Chosen One" type.  Even if the execution was lacking for a lot of people.  On some level the PC is likely ALWAYS a special snowflake (by virtue of accomplishing things in the plot that others don't for reasons), I tend to prefer protagonists that stand out less from the crowd.

 

Hardly a deal breaker, however.

[NRieh]

I'm not sure I agree, that Revan fits this company. I mean original KOTOR1 in-game Revan, not anything else that followed. Revan's case is special among many specials. The game allows player to stay pretty much 'normal' and does not require fighting gods, invulnerable archdemons and ancient 1km tall machines. Even killing sith emperors is not included. All you need to do is kick some asses and train your memory a bit. ))

PC's 'current' personality is 100% open for headcanons. Revan had a great mix of that 'normality' and importance. 

 

Probably, Hawke, Revan and Hero of Neverwinter (NWN1, OC) are  the most 'human' PCs I've ever had. I should admit, that those are my favorite ones. 

 

Epic characters can be nice, like Shepard is an iconic 'epic hero', a single human saving the galaxy and making BIG choices. But as much as I like ME and many of ME characters, I think, that Hawke is 'closer' to me. 

 

I'd rather not say anything about the Inquisitor before I play the game, but I agree that all that 'mending holes in the sky ability' sounds...suspicious (to put it mildly). Especially, when you think about dwarfquisitor. I mean...it should make some sense, right?  I still have some faith in our devs. 

[Mockingword]

The very nature of being a protagonist pretty much requires it. If I was opposed to it, I wouldn't be able to enjoy many fantasy stories at all.

 

That said, I find myself moving away from certain types of characters, eg, long lost princes, and looking for stories about the "commoners" and "low-lives" of fantasy settings, and people who are pursing more personal, relatable goals than 'saving the world'. I particularly enjoyed Act 1 of DA2 because it dealt more with this sort of story-telling.

[Grieving Natashina]

I don't have anything against special snowflakes. It's just so mainstream. I really loved that random-mercenary-who-just-happens-to-have-skill-galore-vibe I got from Hawke. It was refreshing not being the only lass able to stop the great vile evil to save the world and all.

I enjoy both, but you bring up a good point about Hawke.  I'm out of likes, so here's a <hug> instead.  

 

 

This is similar to myself as well.

 

I liked the idea we had with Hawke, in that he was much less of a "Chosen One" type.  Even if the execution was lacking for a lot of people.  On some level the PC is likely ALWAYS a special snowflake (by virtue of accomplishing things in the plot that others don't for reasons), I tend to prefer protagonists that stand out less from the crowd.

 

Hardly a deal breaker, however.

 

Well said and my feelings as well.  

[SwobyJ]

Guys, 'Special Snowflake' doesn't = being special.

 

Special Snowflake = You're the ONLY one important. We need ONLY YOU. Or EVERYTHING is doomed.

 

Warden starts off not SS, then develops into being it.

Hawke never really was it.

Shepard was kinda it in ME1, but ME2 skyrocketed it and ME3 put it nearly as prominent as it could ever be for a human character.

SWTOR class stories are kinda it, but also not really when it comes to the larger canon.

Revan was only kinda it as well. While his in-game role was fairly SS, his history and place in the canon was not. There are very few SSs in the Star Wars universe anyway, outside the Skywalkers.

 

Plenty of RPGs exist without the protagonist being a Special Snowflake. It's just not the majority. When it comes down to it, the '"You! The entire world is doomed if you don't step up and use your exclusive abilities/power/stature/etc to save it! No one else could ever do it! Only you!" is something that can be avoided and often is.

 

Bioware games aren't typically the place to find it though. Dragon Age II was, in that sense, refreshing. Losing at anything in that game never gave the impression that all of Thedas would be doomed, and Hawke was never someone that the world required for events to happen. He was a catalyst for change, but not much of the change itself, nor the sole catalyst needed for that change to occur.

 

Shepard is the whole other end. It often appears as though the entire MEU would be 100% doomed if Shepard never existed and never did stuff.

[Dominus]

A character having special abilities or heritage typically doesn't ruin it for me, though I'm not a big fan of cheesy Prophecy/Destiny storylines, where you can see too easily how it's going to end.

It's hard to say yet about the veil tearing, don't know enough about the origins of said power yet.

I checked TV Tropes' definition, doesn't seem as focused on the praising and self-focus. Conversely, UrbanDictionary is more along those lines.

[In Exile]

Guys, 'Special Snowflake' doesn't = being special.

 

 

The thing is, though, I think that you can be so "special" that you become a "Special Snowflake". A character that is so awesomely good at fighting can become a Special Snowflake, kind of how you describe Shepard all of a sudden being raised up to Messiah status by ME2-3. 

[Grieving Natashina]

I think too many people confuse "Special Snowflake" versus a "Mary Sue" myself. <shrug>

 

 _{There needs to be a shrugging emoticon.}  

[SwobyJ]

To continue, this is what I think about OPs examples.

 

Tidus - Yes, he is. JRPG heroes tend to be, in general.

Revan - Sort of. In the plot, yes, but in his history and the SW universe, no.

Marth - Not as familiar with Fire Emblem, sorry. Depends how much the story world and characters required him to do his thing.

Inquisitor - Yes, it looks like it so far. In fact, more than the Warden. Strong turn away from the Hawke type.

 

A special ability doesn't make one a SS. Having that ability (and/or even just existing) + constant reference to only YOU mattering for things + it all coming down to YOU in the end, tends to make you a SS.

[In Exile]

To continue, this is what I think about OPs examples.

 

Tidus - Yes, he is. JRPG heroes tend to be, in general.

Revan - Sort of. In the plot, yes, but in his history and the SW universe, no.

Marth - Not as familiar with Fire Emblem, sorry. Depends how much the story world and characters required him to do his thing.

Inquisitor - Yes, it looks like it so far. In fact, more than the Warden. Strong turn away from the Hawke type.

 

A special ability doesn't make one a SS. Having that ability (and/or even just existing) + constant reference to only YOU mattering for things + it all coming down to YOU in the end, tends to make you a SS.

Isn't every Jedi a special snowflake, what with each having some God Force-given destiny?

[SwobyJ]

The thing is, though, I think that you can be so "special" that you become a "Special Snowflake". A character that is so awesomely good at fighting can become a Special Snowflake, kind of how you describe Shepard all of a sudden being raised up to Messiah status by ME2-3. 

 

This is true.

 

Shepard pre-ME1 would not have been SS. He had ability and that ability was recognized.

 

Shepard ME1 had some SSness in how he was treated, but was still largely down to earth.

 

It's ever since:

1)Defeating Sovereign

2)(Especially since) TIM's praise of Shepard and putting everything towards bringing him back

that Shepard went right into SS status. It was something I could easily tolerate in ME2, but ME3 rubbed it rather thick . I'll forgive them though.

 

Oh and a special note - being the only one who can save the world/solve a massive problem isn't necessarily SS, but continued reference to that being the case often can be. After that, it's more of a matter of whether its done obnoxiously or not. For the most part, BW games at least keep away from that weakness.

 

I think too many people confuse "Special Snowflake" versus a "Mary Sue" myself. <shrug>

 

 _{There needs to be a shrugging emoticon.}  

 

They do. A Mary Sue doesn't need to have nearly as much in-story power as a Special Snowflake. They just need the creator's doting care and a distinct lack of flaws and/or acknowledgement of flaws.

 

A SS can have many flaws, just as long as they're the only one that matters in the story world.

[n7stormrunner]

Isn't every Jedi a special snowflake, what with each having some God Force-given destiny?

 

 

actually if your not a skywalker or a close friend of one your basically a redshirt.

[SwobyJ]

Isn't every Jedi a special snowflake, what with each having some God Force-given destiny?

 

Only when there's no/few other Jedi.

 

Otherwise they're just one snowflake among many. No more 'special' part.

 

Luke? SS. Outright.

Anakin? Due to Chosen One storyline, yes, SS.

Mace Windu? Nope. He just be space wizard.

Obi Wan? Nope. He just be space wizard. Lots of those out there. All doing their thing.

 

Another example: In Dragon Age, there's plenty of Wardens (well, a depleting number, but still). They all have their abilities, sure. But they're not SSs. It's the one Warden that we play as, that is continually looked at (regardless of our behavior) as the savior of Ferelden. Not Alistair, regardless of his king storyline. Nope, it's you. The game does take a more tempered approach towards it though, so it's not a big deal.

 

So I repeat - special abilities do not make one a Special Snowflake. Especially if you are still one among many with them.

 

 

EDIT: I also want to clarify the 'destiny' part. In SW, you either believe that the Force has a destiny for all of us (Force user or non-Force user!), or none of us. Alright... but then there's the Chosen One bit for the Skywalkers. Clearly some destinies are much more important than others. By far. VERY far.

[Arppis]

I actualy liked Hawke because he was nobody special. So yeah, I'd like to see more characters like that instead of supa-spechul characters of destiny.

[TKavatar]

I think Alistair fits the definition of a special snowflake as well.

[n7stormrunner]

I think Alistair fits the definition of a special snowflake as well.

 

 

not in da: o, can't say in other things but in the game the the guy is just a spare bastard who happens to be a grey warden, wouldn't surprise me if the warden had a lot of those.

[iOnlySignIn]

I'd rather be a nobody that fashions his epicnessocity through the game's plot, not through a previous history or initial event.

 

You mean, like Hawke?

 

See how well-received DA2 is as a result. BioWare is not falling for that again.

 

Incidentally Hawke is my favorite BioWare protagonist. It's just not everyone else's.

[Grieving Natashina]

 

I think Alistair fits the definition of a special snowflake as well.

 

 

 

As one mod (Allen I think) said, "All companions are all sort of special snowflake-y."

[Allan Schumacher]

You mean, like Hawke?

 

See how well-received DA2 is as a result. BioWare is not falling for that again.

 

Incidentally Hawke is my favorite BioWare protagonist. It's just not everyone else's.

 

I don't think it's fair to ascribe any of DA2's shortcoming on any singular event.  There are things that may very well been better received had they existed within DAO, and I think it's simplistic to simply look at a feature that existed in DA2 and conclude "DA2 wasn't as well received.  Therefore this feature is a bad idea."