Scrolling is bad, Alan.
No, scrolling through a list based inventory system is good great fantastic. Wasting time, by doing redundant tasks that take 10 times as long, is just so much phun.
Scrolling is so much phun actually, i'd say they should also remove the categories so that we can waste even more time by scrolling. Best RPG ever made? Probably. 
Hmm. I find I do more work with a grid system to get the same results. One or two mouse clicks takes me where I want to be in the list. Assuming I need to scroll at all -- that's only necessary with accessories in DA2, though it happens more often in DAO because there's no junk category. I'll take that over manual sorting anytime.
I'm leaving ME1 aside because of that game's abominable item system.
And where do your unequipped items go? They will be bumped to the first available place in the grid and create more cutter, with you having to rearrange them everytime you switch gears.
Only if you don't plan for that. If you know that unequipped gear goes into the first available slot, you can plan to have those slots in specific locations.
In NWN, I usually had one page for quickbar items. They got equipped and unequipped all the time, but always through the quickbar, so I didn't care how they were arranged. But as long as the pages before that one were always full, nothing ever got dropped out of place.
Grids require some planning, but then you can leave them alone forever. Lists require constant attention.
Weird. I find it to be exactly the opposite. Unless we differ on the meaning of "paying attention."
I do agree that a grid would be helpful to sort out different items with the same name. So if DAI is going to fail in its item design the same way DA2 did, the case for a grid will get stronger. But if if that doesn't happen, I think a grid would be more work for no value
Only if you don't plan for that. If you know that unequipped gear goes into the first available slot, you can plan to have those slots in specific locations.
In NWN, I usually had one page for quickbar items. They got equipped and unequipped all the time, but always through the quickbar, so I didn't care how they were arranged. But as long as the pages before that one were always full, nothing ever got dropped out of place.
Grids require some planning, but then you can leave them alone forever. Lists require constant attention.
Wait a minute. It doesn't take constant attention to keep all the pages before the quickbar item page completely full? And won't newly-acquired items also go onto that page? Unless it's the first page, but it sounds like it isn't.
Come to think of it, doesn't every new item have to be sorted? Remind me again how this is less work.
Weird. I find it to be exactly the opposite. Unless we differ on the meaning of "paying attention."
I do agree that a grid would be helpful to sort out different items with the same name. So if DAI is going to fail in its item design the same way DA2 did, the case for a grid will get stronger. But if if that doesn't happen, I think a grid would be more work for no value
Take any given piece of equipment in your inventory. Where is it?
With a list, you don't know until you go find it. You have to browse through the list literally every time you need anything. With a grid, you could know where most of your stuff is without having to look for it.
Grids save you having to look for stuff. Yes, you need to sort every item you pick up, but you only have to do that once for each item, and then they stay where they belong. This is why I think grids are better.
Also, they allow you to display vastly more items on the screen at once than with a single-column list.
The system for quickbar items in Neverwinter Nights was not handeled very well. This has nothing to do with a grid system in itself anyway.
Come to think of it, doesn't every new item have to be sorted? Remind me again how this is less work.
You're acting like a list inventory is (almost) completely self sustaining, which it isn't.
List based inventories need to be tended too also, and tidying them up is quite a nuisance.
Played on pc, don't see any option in the DA2 inventory to use potions. Without moving them to the quickbar.
An inventory system not dissimilar to how skyrim did it might be interesting.
An inventory system like Skyrim is the last thing they want to do.
While I don't use it myself, there's a reason that many people switched over to SkyUI once that mod was released, since the regular interface can be a complete slog to sift through, especially if you're a packrat like I tend to be.
I wouldn't mind a more refined system than they've had in the previous two games, DA2 was good because it allowed for a separate junk section, but I agree that some kind of system which sorts things via damage, weapon type etc might be a good idea.
And if we're having armour sets in this game again, I'd love it if they figured some system to put them all together. It's can be a minor hassle trying to find the correct pieces if you're carrying too much stuff, especially if like in DA2 the pieces had different names.
I find grids worse than lists once we get past a couple of primary items and I have to think about , e.g., which one of these things is the ring of fire resistance.
Ideally, there wouldn't be so many items kicking around in the first place. But I suppose it's too much to hope that DAI's going to go the ME2 route.
That worked better for ME2 because it's a bit jarring to have a Sci-Fi game with "Beam Rifle +1 to +10". Granted, they took out too much and ME3 improved on this, but for a fantasy game people expect shinies.
What I'd like to see is DAO's method of item tiers back, because while it was goofy it at least made sense in an in-character way. A Dragonbone longsword is better than a Steel one because it's a better material. In DA2, you've just got Longsword * and Longsword ** with no real reasoning to anything.
And if we're having armour sets in this game again, I'd love it if they figured some system to put them all together. It's can be a minor hassle trying to find the correct pieces if you're carrying too much stuff, especially if like in DA2 the pieces had different names.
That was definitely a pain with lists. Constantly looking through to see if I had a full set of something.
The problem I have with grids is items have no memory of where they came from, so if you un-equip and re-equip something it just ends up on the first available space in the grid. Which happened a lot in NWN2 if you had different equipment setups on the quickbar.
hm...
I only have ONE wish for the inventory-system:
Give me INFINITE SPACE!
(everything else: copy from DA:O 
)
greetings LAX
The system for quickbar items in Neverwinter Nights was not handeled very well.
I thought it was. I loved the quickbars in NWN, and have asked many times for BioWare to copy them. Particularly the ability to move any equippable item there (or combinations of equippable items, like weapons and shields), and the alternate quickbars accessible through keyboard shortcuts.
hm...
I only have ONE wish for the inventory-system:
Give me INFINITE SPACE!
The rest of the universe is this way. ----------------------->
Plenty of room. But you need to bring things to survive once you leave Earth's surface.
Only if you don't plan for that. If you know that unequipped gear goes into the first available slot, you can plan to have those slots in specific locations.
Grids require some planning, but then you can leave them alone forever. Lists require constant attention.
Only that you can't plan ahead for everything. If anything grids require more attention, as you have rearrange them everytime you gain a new item. The only way you can plan ahead for this is on your Xth playthrough with a grid chart planned out ahead of playing the game. That may be fun for some, but I'd be quite ok with scrolling instead of speding my time planning something not fun at all (at least to me).
I think most of the disadvanages of the list system could be fixed with the implementation of necessary sorting options (such as "Sort by Name" "Sort by Time of Acquisition", "Sort by Type", etc.).
I would want a manual sort option, as well. Let me force the first nine things always to appear in the order I choose. Skyrim sort of offers this with the Favorites menu - it's a good feature.Only that you can't plan ahead for everything. If anything grids require more attention, as you have rearrange them everytime you gain a new item. The only way you can plan ahead for this is on your Xth playthrough with a grid chart planned out ahead of playing the game. That may be fun for some, but I'd be quite ok with scrolling instead of speding my time planning something not fun at all (at least to me).
I think most of the disadvanages of the list system could be fixed with the implementation of necessary sorting options (such as "Sort by Name" "Sort by Time of Acquisition", "Sort by Type", etc.).
But stackin also applies to list inventories, so it's not like it's the pro of a grid inventory.
That is because DA2 was level and item scaled, which is now completely gone in DA:I (good riddance too), so I am pretty certain that the item system will be similar to what we had in DA:O.What I'd like to see is DAO's method of item tiers back, because while it was goofy it at least made sense in an in-character way. A Dragonbone longsword is better than a Steel one because it's a better material. In DA2, you've just got Longsword * and Longsword ** with no real reasoning to anything.
That was definitely a pain with lists. Constantly looking through to see if I had a full set of something.
The problem I have with grids is items have no memory of where they came from, so if you un-equip and re-equip something it just ends up on the first available space in the grid. Which happened a lot in NWN2 if you had different equipment setups on the quickbar.
I think the quickbars are very nice and very helpful in NWN. However, if you equip a different set (by clicking on the corresponding quickbar slot), then all of the items of the un-equipped set are simply added to the top of your inventory. This is exactly where I don't want to have those unequipped items, because I reserve the top of my inventory for new items that I pick up.I thought it was. I loved the quickbars in NWN, and have asked many times for BioWare to copy them. Particularly the ability to move any equippable item there (or combinations of equippable items, like weapons and shields), and the alternate quickbars accessible through keyboard shortcuts.
You don't rearrange your inventory everytime you get a new item with a grid inventory. You examine the newly picked up item and decide if it is worth keeping (or equipping immediatly), worth selling when back in town, or worthless junk that you dump.Only that you can't plan ahead for everything. If anything grids require more attention, as you have rearrange them everytime you gain a new item. The only way you can plan ahead for this is on your Xth playthrough with a grid chart planned out ahead of playing the game. That may be fun for some, but I'd be quite ok with scrolling instead of speding my time planning something not fun at all (at least to me).
I think most of the disadvanages of the list system could be fixed with the implementation of necessary sorting options (such as "Sort by Name" "Sort by Time of Acquisition", "Sort by Type", etc.).
I've always preferred a grid to a list because it allows me to display more items on screen at the same time. It also lends itself to custom corting, so that the thing I want will always be in the same place on the screen when I want it.
List inventories require that we navigate them every time we want to go find something, and that's wasted time. If you added up all the time you spend scrolling through your inventory it would likely be more than the time you would have spent organizing your inventory the one time at the beginning.
So I don't like lists.
Also don't like how DA2 identified Junk items. I don't think the UI should give me that sort of metagame information. I much preferred how NWN handled inventory, where everything was grouped together and it was up to the player to give that collection structure. And this also meant that sometimes the player might misidentify something. And that makes sense. If you haven't yet encountered the quest that relies on this item, you should then have no reason to believe that it is a quest item. You might think it's junk. Or you might think that some junk has a use (like the sheets of vellum in DAO).
I'd also like to see weight limits on inventory. BioWare hasn't used weight limits since they stopped having individual inventories, but weight limits can work with a group inventory, as demonstrated by Wizardry 8.
You make a very good case for a point I'd also like to stress: Let me pack my own bag!
That is essentially the only thing I want from a grid inventory. I do very much like to also have graphical representation of the objects, but you can have that in other forms of inventories as well.
Lists were supposed to be good because they were sortable, filterable and searchable. I hate most implementations I've seen sofar. Because of varying reasons though, and I feel more motivated to talk about what I want, from an inventory.
The first point is whether the inventory should have limitations or not.
I'm very firmly of the opinion, that if the game is not seriously going to make those limitations into a gameplay factor, - then the inventory should be un-limited! The 'as-long-as-you-get-rid-of-all-junk-at-every-trader-you're-going-to-be-able-to-carry-all-and-everything-you-want-just-as-long-as-you're-really-clever-at-playing-tetris' -types of inventory are awful. (The worst I've encountered must be original Dungeon Siege.)
But I do want limitations to be a gameplay factor. And I do want limited inventories. So the question is then, what kind of limitations?
I absolutely don't want a slot or numbers kind of limitation. It's not reasonable or realistic. Likewise, modifications to such a system that , for example, lets you carry the gems in a gem-bag in one slot, are not satisfactory. I want quick access to everything.
A grid-system is a good way to let us pack our own bag. But the grids must then not be a limiting factor. Let the system automatically expand with more pages of grids. If you put something in the last grid of a page, let the system automatically add a new empty page, regardless if the previous is full or not.
You should also be able to push in an object between others, so that all following objects automatically move down a step. For organizing purposes, it would be nice if it's also possible to insert empty slots and line-feeds.
IMO, the inventory should be volume and weight limited. You're not allowed to exceed either. This should be a really easy computer implementation. Each object just has to have a weight (common enough) and a volume. The weight limit can be dependent on the strength of the character. The volume limit can be just an understood general limit, or dependent of the type of bag the character have acquired.
I also think there should be a distinction between two types of inventories: Carried possession, and stashed possessions. This is nothing new. The possibility of stashing items existed already in BG. It would be good though, if it was always possible to check the contents of a stash, to help keep track of what we have, ...and where.
But see, by adding a twofold limit you are making it a chore to pack your bag, because you will have to look for some optimal solution to maximize capacity. As far as volume goes, it doesn't make any sense in your example. If I can carry 100 suits of platemail, why can't I carry 101 gems? The size of the bag should influence the number of grid pages. And even then it is an extremely silly system. No backpack can fit 2 claymores, a suit of armor, 5 bows, etc. I think it's best to just let go of this. Weight limits are IMHO the most realistic (though they are always over the top to suit player hoarding), so I just like to skip the charade and get an unlimited inventory.
But see, by adding a twofold limit you are making it a chore to pack your bag, because you will have to look for some optimal solution to maximize capacity. As far as volume goes, it doesn't make any sense in your example. If I can carry 100 suits of platemail, why can't I carry 101 gems? The size of the bag should influence the number of grid pages. And even then it is an extremely silly system. No backpack can fit 2 claymores, a suit of armor, 5 bows, etc. I think it's best to just let go of this. Weight limits are IMHO the most realistic (though they are always over the top to suit player hoarding), so I just like to skip the charade and get an unlimited inventory.
You're not making much sense, in regard to my post.
The question: "If I can carry 100 suits of platemail, why can't I carry 101 gems?" Suggests you understand 'volume' as being a number of slots, or something like that. Reread my post carefully, and you'll see I didn't suggest anything of the sort.
A language issue, perhaps?
Volume is not numbers.
And I specifically spent rather much space to arguing the case for unlimited grids.
Why should the size of the bag influence the number of grid pages? The grids are just abstracts to organize the position of objects. Rather, I'd presume the resolution of your screen will affect how many grids you get per page, and thus how many pages your stuff fill out.
so I just like to skip the charade and get an unlimited inventory.
I want individual inventories and strength to set carrying capacity. Carrying stuff is a Warrior power and I want to see puny Mages punished for not being ripped. 
I thought it was. I loved the quickbars in NWN, and have asked many times for BioWare to copy them. Particularly the ability to move any equippable item there (or combinations of equippable items, like weapons and shields), and the alternate quickbars accessible through keyboard shortcuts.
I thought this would have been quite useful in DA2, particularly on higher levels where you want to work around damage resistances. Also for blood magic items and +loot gear sets.
I remember how the weapon sets in DAO served primarily to remind me of how much better NWN worked in that respect (especially since I'd just finished a playthrough of the NWN OC before I got DAO).
You're not making much sense, in regard to my post.
Volume can mean numbers.
1. V the magnitude of the three-dimensional space enclosed within or occupied by an object, geometricsolid, etc 2. a large mass or quantity: the volume of protest 3.
an amount or total: the volume of exports
(Source: World English Dictionary)
I was just thinking of number 3, not number 1. A main reason why I didn't consider your definition is because I never saw this implementation in games, so I automatically assumed you meant number limit on items. So pardon me for my misinterpretation.
Either way I stand by my comment on the dual restrictions being unnecessarily complicated. If managing your inventory is a math problem, then you are not doing it right.
As to why the bag should influence grid pages, it is an easy extrapolation of how a bigger bag translates to more inventory space. Much like how in DAO the extra bags yielded more list space, mostly because if there is a restriction on inventories, I prefer the design to have some allusion to reality, just to make it more easier to suspend my belief.
That was definitely a pain with lists. Constantly looking through to see if I had a full set of something.
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