Oblivion, Skyrim - it's clear, that this was made for consoles, so no drag ans drop - as i always liked pretty much. instead you get a list of itemswith a name and a small symbol but mostly unsorted.
There's a reason the SkyUI mod has been downloaded over 6 million times.
There's a reason the SkyUI mod has been downloaded over 6 million times.
I don't even know what the regular UI was like because of the horror stories I heard: went straight to the UI mod.
The D-pad can be better than a mouse, in my experience. You have discrete button presses rather than the analog movement of a mouse or stick.
I don't really agree with that. The guiding directive of making a good UI (and inventory is UI at its core) is minimizing the number of button presses to complete the task.
Every time you tap the Dpad is a button press. The D-Pad is never better than the accuracy of a mouse, unless your UI is designed as a console UI like Oblivion/Skyrim.
That said, I personally think any Inventory-heavy game needs to have a One-touch inventory command. Instead of Pause -> Scroll -> Inventory. With KBM you at least have hotkeys.
Guest_EntropicAngel_*
I don't really agree with that. The guiding directive of making a good UI (and inventory is UI at its core) is minimizing the number of button presses to complete the task.
Every time you tap the Dpad is a button press. The D-Pad is never better than the accuracy of a mouse, unless your UI is designed as a console UI like Oblivion/Skyrim.
That said, I personally think any Inventory-heavy game needs to have a One-touch inventory command. Instead of Pause -> Scroll -> Inventory. With KBM you at least have hotkeys.
Interesting. I was thinking of Deus Ex: HR and the grid system--to me it works better with a D-pad.
Well an inventory is anything where you have to manage a certain amount of items. What makes it good? Well it's easy to handle and gives you a good overview of the content of your inventory.
Examples for bad inventories:
Oblivion, Skyrim - it's clear, that this was made for consoles, so no drag ans drop - as i always liked pretty much. instead you get a list of itemswith a name and a small symbol but mostly unsorted. Skyrim was a bit better than oblivion but still i had to scroll up and down to search for this and that - especially potions were always a mess.
Dragon age 2: A bit like skyrim but since the variety of items were not anywhere close to the TES-Series the overview was a bit better. still you hat to scroll and switch between card files... and this star-system of items never made any real sense to me. Why got a +2% one star but a +3% four stars? Deceptive as hell.
Mass Effect 1: Oh geez... one of he worst scroll-menus. Items everywhere with no kind of ability to sort them and comparing stats was - in my opinion - inconvenient.
Dragon age Origins was not as bad though. It was okay... still a scroll-menu but at least sorted and with it's limit of 125 easy to keep overview... but the fact that dlc-items where always down and never in their true category was a bit stupid... and the limit was - to me - a bit strict. One third of the whole inventory took all my healing-stuff, traps and poisons.
i think i explained enough.
Alright.
I find your delineation between DA:O and DA ][ interesting, as they were practically the same system. I think DA:O had literally only one more category than DA ][.
But where are the weapons? Why can't I switch at different times?
That's my complaint. There's no possible in-universe justification for such a mechanic.
I was under the impression that the weapons were all at the station. Sitting there, and you can change when you get to one.
Sure, if you look too hard you'll notice that then ALL stations should have all weapons from the get-go. But that can be handwaved as coincidence (coincidentally the later stations have more weapons).
So Shepard (and by extension, the Normandy) isn't actually carrying any of those weapons? So Shepard doesn't actually pick up new weapons ever - they just happen to be in the box near the guy he killed that used one just like it (and every subsequent box)?I was under the impression that the weapons were all at the station. Sitting there, and you can change when you get to one.
Sure, if you look too hard you'll notice that then ALL stations should have all weapons from the get-go. But that can be handwaved as coincidence (coincidentally the later stations have more weapons).
I don't even know what the regular UI was like because of the horror stories I heard: went straight to the UI mod.
I thought I should try to vanilla UI just to see how it worked. And with some remapping of keys, I found it worked pretty well. So I never used SkyUI. But I often feel like I'm the only PC user who didn't.
I find your delineation between DA:O and DA ][ interesting, as they were practically the same system. I think DA:O had literally only one more category than DA ][.
Well yes and no. It was kind of alike - i give you that - but still with some weaknesses in the sequel.
Like - as mentioned - creating different screens for different categories. One for weapons and armors, one for belts, necklace and rings, one for potions and runes and one for... well literaly trash.
So, i had to scroll all around to find this and equip that - other than having everything on one screen like in origins. And... well... the trash alsways filled op the whole bag pretty fast without noticing. Like: "Why is the inventory full, there are only a handful of weapons and rings (scroll, scroll, scroll)... oh... 63 trash-items.... i should have guessed.". This and the star-system.
That's why i make the difference between DAO and DA2
Like - as mentioned - creating different screens for different categories. One for weapons and armors, one for belts, necklace and rings, one for potions and runes and one for... well literaly trash.
DAO had different screens for different categories too.
yes, but you had not to use them. It was possible to keep all the items on one screen (exept of quest-realted, but that's okay since they did not take any room). At least in the PC-Version - don't know if the console was alike.
Guest_EntropicAngel_*
Well yes and no. It was kind of alike - i give you that - but still with some weaknesses in the sequel.
Like - as mentioned - creating different screens for different categories. One for weapons and armors, one for belts, necklace and rings, one for potions and runes and one for... well literaly trash.
So, i had to scroll all around to find this and equip that - other than having everything on one screen like in origins. And... well... the trash alsways filled op the whole bag pretty fast without noticing. Like: "Why is the inventory full, there are only a handful of weapons and rings (scroll, scroll, scroll)... oh... 63 trash-items.... i should have guessed.". This and the star-system.
That's why i make the difference between DAO and DA2
Ah, that's fair.
And yeah, the trash could fill up fast, while with DA:O it usually stacked on 10 or so items.
Guest_EntropicAngel_*
So Shepard (and by extension, the Normandy) isn't actually carrying any of those weapons? So Shepard doesn't actually pick up new weapons ever - they just happen to be in the box near the guy he killed that used one just like it (and every subsequent box)?
No, he picks the weapons up, and takes them back to the Normandy. But once he's on the ground (on a new mission), he doesn't have access to them anymore.
I thought I should try to vanilla UI just to see how it worked. And with some remapping of keys, I found it worked pretty well. So I never used SkyUI. But I often feel like I'm the only PC user who didn't.
I used the standard UI as well. It was alright.
No, he picks the weapons up, and takes them back to the Normandy. But once he's on the ground (on a new mission), he doesn't have access to them anymore.
But he gets them from the box. And if he doesn't swap at the box, where is the weapon?
That swapping is limited to the boxes, but at those boxed you can swap to any weapon you've ever found, but you're not forced to swap to those weapons, just doesn't make sense.
The boxes are actually fabricators, so Shepard just needs to download the weapon specs/FRM?
Guest_EntropicAngel_*
But he gets them from the box. And if he doesn't swap at the box, where is the weapon?
That swapping is limited to the boxes, but at those boxed you can swap to any weapon you've ever found, but you're not forced to swap to those weapons, just doesn't make sense.
I don't really understand what you're asking. How I see it:
Shepard is moseying along with his few weapons. Shepard finds a new weapon. Shepard has the option to keep the weapon there. However, regardless, at every weapon station in the galaxy, those weapons now pop into existence (along with the weapons that were already at those stations, so the stations now have every weapon), and presumably Shepard pops one into his bag of holding for the Normandy. From thereafter, anytime Shepard leaves the Normandy he can pick his loadout. However, when he's on the ground, he has to wait until he reaches a weapon station to switch to a different weapon.
It sounds like you're saying that there would only be specific weapons at the weapon stations. But no, every single weapon is at those presumably.
I don't really understand what you're asking. How I see it:
Shepard is moseying along with his few weapons. Shepard finds a new weapon. Shepard has the option to keep the weapon there. However, regardless, at every weapon station in the galaxy, those weapons now pop into existence (along with the weapons that were already at those stations, so the stations now have every weapon), and presumably Shepard pops one into his bag of holding for the Normandy. From thereafter, anytime Shepard leaves the Normandy he can pick his loadout. However, when he's on the ground, he has to wait until he reaches a weapon station to switch to a different weapon.
It sounds like you're saying that there would only be specific weapons at the weapon stations. But no, every single weapon is at those presumably.
I understand how it works in the game. I'm just struggling to find an in-universe explanation for the mechanic.
The boxes are actually fabricators, so Shepard just needs to download the weapon specs/FRM?
That's the best explanation I've seen yet.
Guest_EntropicAngel_*
I understand how it works in the game. I'm just struggling to find an in-universe explanation for the mechanic.
Ooooooh, I think I get your comment now. You were talking about when you reached a NEW weapon, huh. I would say something similar to what Wulfram said--that Shepard automatically records the specifications (or someone else on the team does).
Regardless, in universe it can be thought of as...I'm traipsing along, killing killing killing, when I reach a new weapon. I choose not to pick it up, but when I arrive at a weapon station, they happen to have it there too. I find a new weapon later, and discover that other weapon stations have that weapon too.
The only CRPG inventory system I've ever liked is ME2's.
So.. and now tell me what kind of inventory was there? None. Choosing the weapons at the begin of a mission is not an inventory.
Exactly.
No inventory is always the best inventory...?
The D-pad can be better than a mouse, in my experience. You have discrete button presses rather than the analog movement of a mouse or stick.
You can use the mouse wheel to scroll up and down through a list based inventory, which is similar to using the D-Pad on a controller.
That is better than using a D-pad IMO, but it still sucks, simply because list-based inventories are inferior.
Guest_EntropicAngel_*
You can use the mouse wheel to scroll up and down through a list based inventory, which is similar to using the D-Pad on a controller.
That is better than using a D-pad IMO, but it still sucks, simply because list-based inventories are inferior.
Well in my experience (let that read as a big red IMO), I can more easily separate out the discrete movements of a d-pad than with a scrolling mouse, which takes more twitch precision.
Kind of bizarre example: I'm playing Final Fantasy VIII right now (I LOVE it, teenage angst is through the roof), and part of the system is that you take your magic from enemies--this results in 5-10 minute battles where you're pressing "Draw>[Enemy Select]>Cura>Stock" about fifty times. So you develop a pattern: Down-down-A-A-down-down-A-A. A D-pad makes fast precise movements like these a lot more doable than a mouse scroll.
No inventory is always the best inventory...?
But in general, CRPGs are way too loot-intensive. I've always regretted that CRPGs didn't descend from a better PnP system.
I don't think it's entirely D&D's fault. D&D had creatures that had no loot, most CRPGs now have suits of armor and poleaxes springing magically from the corpses of dead beetles. I think the economy is more of the problem. In CRPGs the main way of making money is to sell stuff, and most players want as much money as possible.
True, but it has gotten better. Nothing like:"Yeah killed a giant rat aaand... it had a magical weapon...uh... somewhere on it... or in it..." anymore.
Yes, some Monsters are still loot-wh**** like Dragons but hey, if i had a tough battle and won, i want to be rewarded with something worthwhile.
So i think it's reasonable.
About ME: The degradation of the inventory which happened along the series is a proof of it's core becoming less and less rpg and more action. Seriously, add some new features, bioware.
I don't think it's entirely D&D's fault. D&D had creatures that had no loot, most CRPGs now have suits of armor and poleaxes springing magically from the corpses of dead beetles. I think the economy is more of the problem. In CRPGs the main way of making money is to sell stuff, and most players want as much money as possible.
But D&D had loot progression. Alan prefers systems that don't really progress loot very much.
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