I'm all for the game making me cry, so long as it doesn't force me to kill off my protagonist without having the option to save her/him or separate him/her from their LI for no good reason other than "lol, fan tears and dramaz!" I'd prefer my Warden and Hawke to remain alive and well and with their significant others.
Everything else I'm cool with.
[COUGH-COUGH] 
Yeah, you know, I've been thinking about this, and, I just want a happy ending for some of my characters. With Cullen, preferably.
I'm all for the game making me cry, so long as it doesn't force me to kill off my protagonist without having the option to save her/him or separate him/her from their LI for no good reason other than "lol, fan tears and dramaz!" I'd prefer my Warden and Hawke to remain alive and well and with their significant others.
Everything else I'm cool with.
I swear to the Maker, if they pull a ME3 on us...
I'm hopeful that a VO session would be during business hours. So... once 10am Edmonton time hits, I think we should start watching the GE twitter feed. I'm sure he'll tweet us from the booth, like he did last time.
FYI: It is almost 10am Edmonton time.
I'm all for the game making me cry, so long as it doesn't force me to kill off my protagonist without having the option to save her/him or separate him/her from their LI for no good reason other than "lol, fan tears and dramaz!" I'd prefer my Warden and Hawke to remain alive and well and with their significant others.
Everything else I'm cool with.
I'm all for the game making me cry, so long as it doesn't force me to kill off my protagonist without having the option to save her/him or separate him/her from their LI for no good reason other than "lol, fan tears and dramaz!" I'd prefer my Warden and Hawke to remain alive and well and with their significant others.
Everything else I'm cool with.
Right. They can kick me while I'm down all they like, but I need a least a tiny bit of a happy ending for my protagonist... otherwise it becomes really hard to go back and re-play it.
Well in my opinion is that Cullen has just been trying to do what he thinks is right. Ferelden's circle's incident and trauma that followed it just clouds his judgement. His morality was against annulment of the circle but he still chose to follow orders. When talking him before the battle it really seemed like he was really indecisive, like he wasn't sure what was right thing to do and that's why he went against Meredith so late.
Cullen has some views I don't support but I think he's overall good guy and I hope that Meredith case opened his eyes on templars vs mages issue too.
To be honest... this what I like about him. I find it rather unrealistic that heroes always do 100% the right thing without remorse or doubt or consideration for themselves. I think we like writing/watching/reading about heroes like that because it's an unattainable idea.
One of my favorite moments in any fictional medium (which many of you have heard me say about a billion times) is in Pitch Black when our "hero" is almost convinced to leave her flock behind and join the "bad" guy and save herself. She collapses in grief and indecision, momentarily tempted. Sure, she ends up doing the 'right' thing, but in that moment I find her very relateable.
I feel the same thing about Cullen. Sure, the 'right' thing would have been to do something sooner, but I also can completely understand why he was indecisive and why it took so long for him to take a stand. I can't hate him for that, because I'm not sure I could have done much better.
I'm all for the game making me cry, so long as it doesn't force me to kill off my protagonist without having the option to save her/him or separate him/her from their LI for no good reason other than "lol, fan tears and dramaz!" I'd prefer my Warden and Hawke to remain alive and well and with their significant others.
Everything else I'm cool with.
Yeah, I really don't want another ME3 to happen again. If there's an option to merge all of Thedas with the spirits of the Fade, I'm going to punch a wall. lol
[COUGH-COUGH]
Yeah, you know, I've been thinking about this, and, I just want a happy ending for some of my characters. With Cullen, preferably.
It's just my personal opinion, but I feel the option for a "happy ending" should totally be there, it's an RPG game and RPGs are about choice and multiple outcomes, lol. I'm not saying it should be all hearts, flowers and rainbows as some degree of loss and destruction is always going to occur, but I'd like to at least have the option of my protagonist surviving in one piece with LI and all remaining companions (that didn't turn against us or prematurely die) in tow.
Yeah, I really don't want another ME3 to happen again. If there's an option to merge all of Thedas with the spirits of the Fade, I'm going to punch a wall. lol
Destroy all mages
Merge with Fade
Let the Templars burn Thedas
"...purple?"
Right. They can kick me while I'm down all they like, but I need a least a tiny bit of a happy ending for my protagonist... otherwise it becomes really hard to go back and re-play it.
I've played ME3 twice, and I only played it through that second time for the extended cut DLC/Citadel dlc. Usually I'll play a BioWare game to death, but I can't bring myself to depress myself again with that one even with the mods, which is a shame because I really like the Mass Effect franchise.
FYI: It is almost 10am Edmonton time.
To be honest... this what I like about him. I find it rather unrealistic that heroes always do 100% the right thing without remorse or doubt or consideration for themselves. I think we like writing/watching/reading about heroes like that because it's an unattainable idea.
One of my favorite moments in any fictional medium (which many of you have heard me say about a billion times) is in Pitch Black when our "hero" is almost convinced to leave her flock behind and join the "bad" guy and save herself. She collapses in grief and indecision, momentarily tempted. Sure, she ends up doing the 'right' thing, but in that moment I find her very relateable.
I feel the same thing about Cullen. Sure, the 'right' thing would have been to do something sooner, but I also can completely understand why he was indecisive and why it took so long for him to take a stand. I can't hate him for that, because I'm not sure I could have done much better.
YES. ALL OF THIS. 
IMAGE
To be honest... this what I like about him. I find it rather unrealistic that heroes always do 100% the right thing without remorse or doubt or consideration for themselves. I think we like writing/watching/reading about heroes like that because it's an unattainable idea.
One of my favorite moments in any fictional medium (which many of you have heard me say about a billion times) is in Pitch Black when our "hero" is almost convinced to leave her flock behind and join the "bad" guy and save herself. She collapses in grief and indecision, momentarily tempted. Sure, she ends up doing the 'right' thing, but in that moment I find her very relateable.
I feel the same thing about Cullen. Sure, the 'right' thing would have been to do something sooner, but I also can completely understand why he was indecisive and why it took so long for him to take a stand. I can't hate him for that, because I'm not sure I could have done much better.
Honestly, I find 'perfect' heroes boring as hell.
It's why I'm actually not all that fond of Batman. He's supposed to be seen as dark and gritty, and yet, often, he's still portrayed as perfect in the decisions he makes and what he does, and that's just such a yawn fest to me.
Give me Jason Todd over Batman any day. *comic talk* 
Isn't California time more important? Unless it's the same thing in which case I'll be quieter.
Sure, GE won't be on til CA time (IIRC, one hour later...?)... but the devs in Edmonton might start talking about it, too.
Question: would your perception of Cullen change if, instead of the Annulment, he had been involved in an Alienage purge akin to that which Arl Howe performed in DAO?
Not for me, if it was played out similar to the annulment as in it was his duty, and something he believed to a point should have happened. After all he is acting on what he feels is 'right' and the whole reason he is doing what he is doing in the first place. Now if he, say somewhere along the purging realises that they're not doing it for 'the right reasons' and instead to further the crazy, insane, power grabbing lunacy of his superior, and still goes along with it then yeah that would definitely change my perception of him.
Sure, GE won't be on til CA time (IIRC, one hour later...?)... but the devs in Edmonton might start talking about it, too.
GOOGLE-FU~
It's currently 9AM in California, so, in an hour there. (Pacific Time Zone.)
Honestly, Xil, I don't think there's enough information here to develop an opinion. A templar being involved in an Annulment is very different from a templar for some unknown reason purging elves from their homes. Why would it be his job? Why is he there? What is his role? What happened to catalyze the 'purge'? I think you're drawing an implicit equivalence between an Annulment and what Howe did in DA:O, when they're very different.
They're different because one was called out of pure malice, the other insane paranoia (and probable malice). Apart from that, both involve mass murder enough to be equal on that level... though the Annulment may well be worse because at least the Alienage purge didn't kill everyone (or all but three Tranquil-to be if you wish to be technical).
Honestly, I find 'perfect' heroes boring as hell.
It's why I'm actually not all that fond of Batman. He's supposed to be seen as dark and gritty, and yet, often, he's still portrayed as perfect in the decisions he makes and what he does, and that's just such a yawn fest to me.
Give me Jason Todd over Batman any day. *comic talk*
Agreed. I love a good under-dog story where they find themselves royally cocking things up and make very human decisions/mistakes, I just find them much more easy to relate to and I'm more inclined to grow attached to a character that is flawed in some way.
To be honest... this what I like about him. I find it rather unrealistic that heroes always do 100% the right thing without remorse or doubt or consideration for themselves. I think we like writing/watching/reading about heroes like that because it's an unattainable idea.
One of my favorite moments in any fictional medium (which many of you have heard me say about a billion times) is in Pitch Black when our "hero" is almost convinced to leave her flock behind and join the "bad" guy and save herself. She collapses in grief and indecision, momentarily tempted. Sure, she ends up doing the 'right' thing, but in that moment I find her very relateable.
I feel the same thing about Cullen. Sure, the 'right' thing would have been to do something sooner, but I also can completely understand why he was indecisive and why it took so long for him to take a stand. I can't hate him for that, because I'm not sure I could have done much better.
Perhaps... but Cullen hasn't done something that was genuinely "right" in such a long time that I couldn't really consider him to be a hero in any way, shape or form. He certainly has the potential to be a good person, but he hasn't yet realized it.
That reminds me of a question I've been meaning to ask for a while:
In DA2, if you side with the Templars Cullen mentions that the Annulment in Ferelden was called due to the blood mage attack but many mages survived and that they could still do as much here (in Kirkwall). Does he only say that if your Warden refused to kill all the mages when he demanded it back in his pink cage? Or does he say something else if your Warden actually went ahead and had them killed?
Agreed. I love a good under-dog story where they find themselves royally cocking things up and make very human decisions/mistakes, I just find them much more easy to relate to and I'm more inclined to grow attached to a character that is flawed in some way.
Yes. If doing the right thing is easy, I guess that's fine, but somehow it's more impressive & memorable if it's clear the hero is struggling with himself or his own demons (see what I did there? 
) and then makes the right call.
That reminds me of a question I've been meaning to ask for a while:
In DA2, if you side with the Templars Cullen mentions that the Annulment in Ferelden was called due to the blood mage attack but many mages survived and that they could still do as much here (in Kirkwall). Does he only say that if your Warden refused to kill all the mages when he demanded it back in his pink cage? Or does he say something else if your Warden actually went ahead and had them killed?
I've wondered that myself. I'd bet so. Otherwise, Witch Hunt would be... really boring. No Finn.
Perhaps... but Cullen hasn't done something that was genuinely "right" in such a long time that I couldn't really consider him to be a hero in any way, shape or form. He certainly has the potential to be a good person, but he hasn't yet realized it.
I don't think R2 was describing Cullen as a hero. She was saying the fact that he isn't is why she likes him, there's a good man underneath all the head mess and Chantry/Order indoctrination, which is what's interesting.
They're different because one was called out of pure malice, the other insane paranoia (and probable malice). Apart from that, both involve mass murder enough to be equal on that level... though the Annulment may well be worse because at least the Alienage purge didn't kill everyone (or all but three Tranquil-to be if you wish to be technical).
Well, sure you could say the same thing about any mass murder if you don't want to consider the circumstances surrounding it. Without context, you could compare an Annulment to a serial killer's rampage or to the soldiers involved in a World War. I suppose if one thinks that the ends never justify the means, then sure, they're equivalent.
Perhaps... but Cullen hasn't done something that was genuinely "right" in such a long time that I couldn't really consider him to be a hero in any way, shape or form. He certainly has the potential to be a good person, but he hasn't yet realized it.
Even standing up to Meredith at the end? He does get any points for that being the "right" thing?
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