138905 réponses à ce sujet

[TKavatar]

My issue with Cullen is that he was all too happy to go around killing mages until the very last minute when the Champion was threatened and he had a convent change of heart.

And before you tell me that he was just following orders...well, that's what the Nazis used as an excuse in the Nuremberg Trials.

He is an interesting character but I'm not a fan, and I'm not happy that he can't be dismissed.

[Dirgegun]

I have no doubt BioWare found a very good way of fitting him into the story and perhaps I will like him more after he's a fleshed out character. It's really not so much about Cullen and more about how a rather insignificant NPC garners such a strange following when there were much more deserving, well-thought out characters in DA:O.

 

I highly, highly doubt Cullen's importance to the story was planned from the start. Honestly, if someone could provide any evidence that this wasn't the case, I may change my opinion.

 

If you can't see the possible intriguing directions his character can go in after DAII, that's completely fine. To act like those who do see an intriguing character in his story are worth less to the Dragon Age fandom as a whole, however, isn't fair or particularly open minded. Merrill also had a huge fanbase even before DAII.

[Char]

My issue with Cullen is that he was all too happy to go around killing mages until the very last minute when the Champion was threatened and he had a convent change of heart.
And before you tell me that he was just following orders...well, that's what the Nazis used as an excuse in the Nuremberg Trials.
He is an interesting character but I'm not a fan, and I'm not happy that he can't be dismissed.

I don't think he ever stood up against killing mages until the end, but I also don't remember him happily slaughtering mages before them (I only play pro-mage)
I could direct you to the seminal Milgram study on the nature of obedience. It was unethical, but successive repeats have continued to show that obedience to authority is a very real thing, and a cross-cultural phenomenon at that. Its ok that you don't like him, I'm just providing a scientific basis for his actions


EDIT: that's not to say I necessarily agree with his actions because I would totally hope I acted very differently if I was in his situations, but I also like the fact he has flaws, and that we might be able to see why he made his decisions for certain

[CENIC]

There were romances for female players in DA:O. Cullen wasn't one of them.

I'd like a happy ending (for non-nobles) DLC for Alistair then, please.

[Boomshakalakalakaboom]

My issue with Cullen is that he was all too happy to go around killing mages until the very last minute when the Champion was threatened and he had a convent change of heart.
And before you tell me that he was just following orders...well, that's what the Nazis used as an excuse in the Nuremberg Trials.
He is an interesting character but I'm not a fan, and I'm not happy that he can't be dismissed.

That is definitely one of Cullen's character faults -- his blind faith in the order and in his superior to do the right thing. I hope we get an opportunity to ask him why he didn't do something sooner, I will be very interested in what he has to say. Though I have never felt like the blame rested entirely on his shoulders, I think it rests equally on Elthina's and Dumars as well.

EDIT: Though I don't think he was "happy" to go around killing mages. I'm not sure if you are referring to the endings of DA:O? I have never had him mentioned in any of my endings so I don't take those as gospel -- if that was what you were referring to...

Modifié par Boomshakalakalakaboom, 14 juillet 2014 - 09:56 .

[CENIC]

My issue with Cullen is that the fanbase took a small, throwaway part of the game, became obsessed over it and reverse engineered it into something else when yes, there were characters with DEFINED characteristics that were left by the wayside. Also, this reverse enigneering will now affect what will be a huge climax in the Dragon Age series dramatically, with him now being a major character.

I think you're giving us too much credit!

[noxpanda]

My issue with Cullen is that he was all too happy to go around killing mages until the very last minute when the Champion was threatened and he had a convent change of heart.

And before you tell me that he was just following orders...well, that's what the Nazis used as an excuse in the Nuremberg Trials.

He is an interesting character but I'm not a fan, and I'm not happy that he can't be dismissed.

 

I can understand that. It would be a dull ol world if we all liked the same people.

 

For me, im curious too see if its mentioned how much he did join in the RoA, or did he just lurk around behind meredith as it seemed. Im also curious too see if he talks more about what happened to the templars in the ferelden circle, after all by the time the warden turns up everyone if either already controlled by demons or been slaughtered.

[Panda]

My issue with Cullen is that he was all too happy to go around killing mages until the very last minute when the Champion was threatened and he had a convent change of heart.

And before you tell me that he was just following orders...well, that's what the Nazis used as an excuse in the Nuremberg Trials.

He is an interesting character but I'm not a fan, and I'm not happy that he can't be dismissed.

 

Actually if you play templar ending he couple times says that they shouldn't annul the circle. He's stance against Meredith then wasn't very strong but he at least was really distressed for the situation and thought annulling circle wasn't right call.

 

It wasn't good of him to follow Meredith but based on psychological studies that is what people do. That excuse that Nazis used.. it's actually widely used and tells lot about humans.. we often fall under peer pressure and do bad things because of it. Did Cullen do right for following Meredith? No. But I can't say I would have gone against Meredith in the situation.

[Char]

My issue with Cullen is that the fanbase took a small, throwaway part of the game. Then they became obsessed over it and reverse engineered it into something else when there were characters with defined characteristics that were left by the wayside. Also, this reverse enigneering will now affect what will be a huge climax in the Dragon Age series dramatically, with him now being a major character.

Do you have an example of characters you would have preferred we concentrate on?

[Danny Boy 7]

I have no doubt BioWare found a very good way of fitting him into the story and perhaps I will like him more after he's a fleshed out character. It's really not so much about Cullen and more about how a rather insignificant NPC garners such a strange following when there were much more deserving, well-thought out characters in DA:O.

 

I highly, highly doubt Cullen's importance to the story was planned from the start. Honestly, if someone could provide any evidence that this wasn't the case, I may change my opinion.

 

You mean like Merrill, Isabela or even Cassandra? I mean barring Cassandra who seems to have had plans as far back as when the Doctors were still at BioWare Merrill was literally there for half a quest and Isabela was there for a single dialogue with the potential of a orgy/gain of a specialization. They had almost exactly a quarter of the dialogue that he had in Origins alone.

 

This is without pointing out that this devolves into a discussion of who is more deserving of a character spotlight which is ENTIRELY subjective even if both sides have evidence for and against the inclusion or exclusion of said character. I mean the fact that you thought that Cullen was a character that could fill up a thread based solely on people's negative opinions/feelings on him is imo evidence that there's at least some depth beyond the pretty face and blonde hair.

[LolaLei]

My issue with Cullen is that the fanbase took a small, throwaway part of the game. Then they became obsessed over it and reverse engineered it into something else when there were characters with defined characteristics that were left by the wayside. Also, this reverse enigneering will now affect what will be a huge climax in the Dragon Age series dramatically, with him now being a major character. 

 

I wish we could engineer something like that! If we had that sort of power then he would have been a companion, no?

[Allan Schumacher]

My issue with Cullen is that he was all too happy to go around killing mages until the very last minute when the Champion was threatened and he had a convent change of heart.

And before you tell me that he was just following orders...well, that's what the Nazis used as an excuse in the Nuremberg Trials.

He is an interesting character but I'm not a fan, and I'm not happy that he can't be dismissed.

 

Stanley Milgram's experiment also demonstrated how much power authority can have, and Nuremberg has plenty of criticisms too.  I consider it a valid defense, and criticism, towards Cullen because it's an exceptionally complicated and debated issue as it is in our own reality.

[Allan Schumacher]

I think you're giving us too much credit!

 

Yup.

[TheJediSaint]

Stanley Milgram's experiment also demonstrated how much power authority can have, and Nuremberg has plenty of criticisms too.  I consider it a valid defense, and criticism, towards Cullen because it's an exceptionally complicated and debated issue as it is in our own reality.

 

Damn, Allan, you almost make Cullen seem human.

[Caja]

That's what I thought. You have zero desire for discussion, especially when you find out I do have good reasons for disliking the character. Perhaps now some can understand why I thought having a venting thread was a good idea.

The Cullen thread isn't just an appreciation thread. It's a discussion thread. You are entitled to have your own opinion and no one has to like Cullen. But I haven't seen your reasons why you don't like the character.

 

 

I have no doubt BioWare found a very good way of fitting him into the story and perhaps I will like him more after he's a fleshed out character. It's really not so much about Cullen and more about how a rather insignificant NPC garners such a strange following when there were much more deserving, well-thought out characters in DA:O.

 

I highly, highly doubt Cullen's importance to the story was planned from the start. Honestly, if someone could provide any evidence that this wasn't the case, I may change my opinion.

I see. Well, I understand why other users think that we are a bit strange. The Cullen thread is the biggest one on the forum and this alone attracts attention. But we are actually not such a big group, just a very vocal one. I also get it that people are irritated by the fact that Cullen has a loyal fanbase.

 

 

The question why Cullen was considered "fan service" was already raised here. Here is an excerpt from Mr Gaider's reply:

 

In my experience, the things we might put into a game solely to make fans (or a select group of fans, anyhow) happy tend to be pretty small in scope. Anything larger than that is going to require justification. At least someone on the team will need to believe that thing's inclusion has merit to the story or the game at large. [...]

 

 

Un Attractive Dwarf wrote: My issue with Cullen is that the fanbase took a small, throwaway part of the game, became obsessed over it and reverse engineered it into something else when yes, there were characters with DEFINED characteristics that were left by the wayside. Also, this reverse enigneering will now affect what will be a huge climax in the Dragon Age series dramatically, with him now being a major character.

Cullen really didn't get a lot of attention when DAO was released. People assume that because he has a fanbase now.

Again, I doubt it that anyone put Cullen in DAI just to make us happy.

[Boomshakalakalakaboom]

My issue with Cullen is that the fanbase took a small, throwaway part of the game. Then they became obsessed over it and reverse engineered it into something else when there were characters with defined characteristics that were left by the wayside. Also, this reverse enigneering will now affect what will be a huge climax in the Dragon Age series dramatically, with him now being a major character.

So you have an issue with his fanbase rather than the actual character himself? From what you said it sounds like your issue with Cullen is that we like him instead of liking other characters, who in your eyes, are deemed more worthy?

[Dirgegun]

My issue with Cullen is that the fanbase took a small, throwaway part of the game, became obsessed over it and reverse engineered it into something else when yes, there were characters with DEFINED characteristics that were left by the wayside. Also, this reverse enigneering will now affect what will be a huge climax in the Dragon Age series dramatically, with him now being a major character. 

 

I'm not sure why you believe other characters were left by the wayside. No one has only one favourite or one character they're interested in. Cullen creates interest and there's plenty to find interesting about him, at least in the opinions of those who have found a reason to want to learn more. You haven't found that in him, and that's completely fine. To look down on those who do like him, however, is not only arrogant but also rather unfair. 

 

Merrill was a 'side' character that became a companion. Did you attempt to demoralise the fandom she possessed before DAII? The same goes for Isabela, who was another side character before DAII. Did you find fault in her fandom before DAII? Both Merril and Isabela had their fans before anyone had played DAII and experienced those characters as companions.

 

What about the Casandra fans?

 

Hell, other than Cullen, Cassandra and Varric, every character thread in this section of the forum is for a character we know very little about. Even so, there's plenty to find intriguing about them in the character blurbs and interviews we've been shown.

[Char]

I wish we could engineer something like that! If we had that sort of power then he would have been a companion, no?

*rubs hands together* next stop, Nathaniel and Teagan our nefarious plans have been rumbled!

[PrincessSparklefists]

In fairness, once you've made the Nazi comparison, you've kinda lost the argument, dude. Godwin's law and all that. Plus, there's actually a lot of nuance to Cullen in those scenes, especially in a pro-Templar playthrough, like where he supports sparing the three repentant mages.

[Yinello]

Nathaniel.

[LolaLei]

I often wonder if we would be getting half as much trouble as we do if Cullen had been a pro-mage supporter fighting to free the mages instead.

[Boomshakalakalakaboom]

*rubs hands together* next stop, Nathaniel and Teagan our nefarious plans have been rumbled!

Don't be greedy, I hear it's a sin

[noxpanda]

*rubs hands together* next stop, Nathaniel and Teagan our nefarious plans have been rumbled!

Do iiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiit!!

 

[Danny Boy 7]

My issue with Cullen is that he was all too happy to go around killing mages until the very last minute when the Champion was threatened and he had a convent change of heart.

And before you tell me that he was just following orders...well, that's what the Nazis used as an excuse in the Nuremberg Trials.

He is an interesting character but I'm not a fan, and I'm not happy that he can't be dismissed.

You're ignoring that he was tortured, watched his friends killed in front of him and then on top of all that was forced to live with the people he originally trusted? Or that leading up to the end of Act 3 he actually mentions that he has doubts regarding Meredith and is one of the few Templars who can potentially defend mages by the end of the game?

 

It would actually be convenient to let Hawke die after all I mean he has a courtyard full of Templars when he defends the Champion and a super powered Meredith. Hawke is losing during the Mage ending and during the Templar ending we've eliminated anyone who could help us if Cullen didn't say anything.

 

Also excuse me if I come across a bit heated, don't mean to be. Just trying to reply quickly