138849 réponses à ce sujet

[Lost_In_Anarchy]

They weren't real guards/prisons? just normal folk?

 

Kinda reminds me a little of Lord of the Flies as well... how quickly everything changed and went bonkers.

Yeah, Stanford students if I remember right. It went bad so fast and that intrigued the guy running it. He ended up going bad too because he was told to pull the plug and the "prisoners" wanted out and he wouldn't do it. Finally someone had to step in because there were hunger strikes. I recommend the documentary because it is fascinating. It gave me even more respect for Cullen not going all Alrik like after the events in the Broken Circle. These guys who were the Guards didn't even have that kind of motivation. The prisoners weren't being antagonistic until later.

[Boomshakalakalakaboom]

think of cullen and the world will be a brighter place

The man has gone to bed. I get to watch what I want now

[Lost_In_Anarchy]

There we go! It really is... interesting (and sometimes disturbing) how different scenarios affect the behaviour of people who might otherwise be completely civil, well-adjusted individuals. 

It really is interesting how someone who is a good person normally can turn into a monster when given total dominion over another human being. Makes you wonder which is the real version, the educated, church goer who helps the poor or the guy willing to torment someone just because they can't fight back? 

[Asperath]

Yeah, Stanford students if I remember right. It went bad so fast and that intrigued the guy running it. He ended up going bad too because he was told to pull the plug and the "prisoners" wanted out and he wouldn't do it. Finally someone had to step in because there were hunger strikes. I recommend the documentary because it is fascinating. It gave me even more respect for Cullen not going all Alrik like after the events in the Broken Circle. These guys who were the Guards didn't even have that kind of motivation. The prisoners weren't being antagonistic until later.

 

I just read the wikipedia entry and it was his wife (then gf) who raised concerns over the experiment and morality of it... according to that 50 PEOPLE had been through and only she had a problem with it...

 

I really do wonder about how people would react in certain situations, myself included.

I always wonder if there was a major event (bombs, war, zombies! hey who knows!) what would I do? I think I'm one of those who would die trying to get to my family... I couldn't leave anyone behind because I would feel so much guilt I didn't even try... sucks they live in the inner part of Sydney lol I've got no hope!!

[Dirgegun]

It really is interesting how someone who is a good person normally can turn into a monster when given total dominion over another human being. Makes you wonder which is the real version, the educated, church goer who helps the poor or the guy willing to torment someone just because they can't fight back? 

 

Yeah. What was done to the 'prisoners' was terrible and I imagine took some time to recover from, but I wonder how it affected the 'guards'? They must have been horrified with themselves once they... came down from it? I'm kicking myself for how little of the documentary I remember.

[Dirgegun]

I just read the wikipedia entry and it was his wife (then gf) who raised concerns over the experiment and morality of it... according to that 50 PEOPLE had been through and only she had a problem with it...

 

I really do wonder about how people would react in certain situations, myself included.

I always wonder if there was a major event (bombs, war, zombies! hey who knows!) what would I do? I think I'm one of those who would die trying to get to my family... I couldn't leave anyone behind because I would feel so much guilt I didn't even try... sucks they live in the inner part of Sydney lol I've got no hope!!

 

In case of zombies...

 

I want to BELIEVE I would be the one fighting my hardest to help people. In reality? I'd probably be the one curled up in the corner of the closet crying. With my dog. No zombies are getting my baby. 

[Char]

Yeah, Stanford students if I remember right. It went bad so fast and that intrigued the guy running it. He ended up going bad too because he was told to pull the plug and the "prisoners" wanted out and he wouldn't do it. Finally someone had to step in because there were hunger strikes. I recommend the documentary because it is fascinating. It gave me even more respect for Cullen not going all Alrik like after the events in the Broken Circle. These guys who were the Guards didn't even have that kind of motivation. The prisoners weren't being antagonistic until later.

Zimbardo's SPE is one of the most unethical studies ever conducted. The guards and prisoners were normal healthy sound males before the experiment. The peisoners were systematically dehumanised and humiliated, referred to by number, they made two of the men dress up and play frankensteins wedding for the guards amusement. Prisoners were so stressed they were becoming sick and refusing to eat. And this was within 8 days. Zimbardo himself was so involved he forgot his duties as experimenter.

He did of course artificially phsh factors so that the conditions were right for this kind of behaviour.

There was a remake of the study done by Reicher & Haslam in... 05? There's a BBC documentary on it. It's good watching.

[Asperath]

In case of zombies...

 

I want to BELIEVE I would be the one fighting my hardest to help people. In reality? I'd probably be the one curled up in the corner of the closet crying. With my dog. No zombies are getting my baby. 

 

I'll be alright as long as they aren't the super fast ones like in World War Z... they freak me out

[Dirgegun]

Zimbardo's SPE is one of the most unethical studies ever conducted. The guards and prisoners were normal healthy sound males before the experiment. The peisoners were systematically dehumanised and humiliated, referred to by number, they made two of the men dress up and play frankensteins wedding for the guards amusement. Prisoners were so stressed they were becoming sick and refusing to eat. And this was within 8 days. Zimbardo himself was so involved he forgot his duties as experimenter.

He did of course artificially phsh factors so that the conditions were right for this kind of behaviour.

There was a remake of the study done by Reicher & Haslam in... 05? There's a BBC documentary on it. It's good watching.

 

Oh, I had no idea there was a re-make of the experiment. I'll have to keep an eye out for that documentary. o:

[Char]

I just read the wikipedia entry and it was his wife (then gf) who raised concerns over the experiment and morality of it... according to that 50 PEOPLE had been through and only she had a problem with it...
 
I really do wonder about how people would react in certain situations, myself included.
I always wonder if there was a major event (bombs, war, zombies! hey who knows!) what would I do? I think I'm one of those who would die trying to get to my family... I couldn't leave anyone behind because I would feel so much guilt I didn't even try... sucks they live in the inner part of Sydney lol I've got no hope!!

To continue with my psychology lecture, you only really have to look at Kitty Genovese to see what people tend to do- nothing. She was murdered within sight and hearing of 30 people, begging for help and not one called the police. Bystander apathy is a horrible thing, but more recent studies have shown a lessening trend, thank goodness. Everybody just seems to think someone else will sort it out- so no-one does.

[Lost_In_Anarchy]

I just read the wikipedia entry and it was his wife (then gf) who raised concerns over the experiment and morality of it... according to that 50 PEOPLE had been through and only she had a problem with it...

 

I really do wonder about how people would react in certain situations, myself included.

I always wonder if there was a major event (bombs, war, zombies! hey who knows!) what would I do? I think I'm one of those who would die trying to get to my family... I couldn't leave anyone behind because I would feel so much guilt I didn't even try... sucks they live in the inner part of Sydney lol I've got no hope!!

Scientists are blind to anything but the experiment. They always want to know how far it can go. >.<

 

I think everyone has a moment or a thing that kicks in a part of themselves they didn't know they had. Like how a mother can lift a car off her child. Since you wouldn't want to leave your family behind, you would probably turn into a hardcore fighter. That fighting for something greater than yourself, would help you survive. Though yeah, zombie apocalypse in a major city, you might need a tank.

[Dirgegun]

I'll be alright as long as they aren't the super fast ones like in World War Z... they freak me out

 

Many a playthrough of Left 4 Dead has taught me to always expect fast ones. 

[Char]

Oh, I had no idea there was a re-make of the experiment. I'll have to keep an eye out for that documentary. o:

http://www.bbcprison...-study.php?p=17

I don't know if it contains viseo links, but it takes you through what happened etc, beginning with the background info.

[Lost_In_Anarchy]

Yeah. What was done to the 'prisoners' was terrible and I imagine took some time to recover from, but I wonder how it affected the 'guards'? They must have been horrified with themselves once they... came down from it? I'm kicking myself for how little of the documentary I remember.

I guess with the guards, it would depend on their true nature. Did they take responsibility for what they chose to do and feel remorse or did they say it wasn't their fault? If they took responsibility, then they were probably pretty messed up. If they blamed the scientists or other "guards", then they were already messed up. Either way, they all needed serious therapy. I don't remember if they talked about the "guards" in the documentary only that the "prisoners" did need treatment. I should watch it again.

[Dirgegun]

http://www.bbcprison...-study.php?p=17

I don't know if it contains viseo links, but it takes you through what happened etc, beginning with the background info.

 

Thank you kindly! 

[Potato Cat]

Ah Zimbardo's. My favourite experiment.

[Dirgegun]

I think experiments like that are interesting and relevant topics of discussion when talking about the Templars-- and any prison system, really. 

[Char]

I guess with the guards, it would depend on their true nature. Did they take responsibility for what they chose to do and feel remorse or did they say it wasn't their fault? If they took responsibility, then they were probably pretty messed up. If they blamed the scientists or other "guards", then they were already messed up. Either way, they all needed serious therapy. I don't remember if they talked about the "guards" in the documentary only that the "prisoners" did need treatment. I should watch it again.

The guards were generally horrified with themselves, knowing that they had the capability to do that kind if thing to a fellow human being. Many of them also needed therapy I believe. Zimbardo absolved them (and himself) of any responsibility by saying that they were all just filling their roles as they were told to do so. Whether you agree with that is another matter. I'm on the fence- i've read a lot of studies, and there's a lot of evidence that points either way.
The SPE was one of the reasons all Psychology experiments must now be authorised by an ethics committee.

[Asperath]

To continue with my psychology lecture, you only really have to look at Kitty Genovese to see what people tend to do- nothing. She was murdered within sight and hearing of 30 people, begging for help and not one called the police. Bystander apathy is a horrible thing, but more recent studies have shown a lessening trend, thank goodness. Everybody just seems to think someone else will sort it out- so no-one does.

 

I'll have to google her as I'm not familiar with her or the crime (must be diff countries).

It sounds like the reason I was taught in high school, don't call rape, call fire if we needed help. Sad but true.

Actually recently I was out for a retirement party and at 2am this girl lays into her boyfriend and jumps on him, hitting him. He doesn't hit her but just lays them both on pavement as they also went onto a busy road. Cops just happened by and pulled him off like he did everything.  I was walking past with my friend and her husband and after 5 metres I said to them I can't go, the cops have got it wrong (I was only slightly tipsy having stop drinking an hour before and eating fast food - as you do) and I went up to the cop and told him she started it, he never touch her (which they didn't listen and one layed into after I spoke to the other & walked off) but no one out of the 20 something people around stopped. Even the chick said it was her fault... I couldn't believe it.

[Asperath]

The guards were generally horrified with themselves, knowing that they had the capability to do that kind if thing to a fellow human being. Many of them also needed therapy I believe. Zimbardo absolved them (and himself) of any responsibility by saying that they were all just filling their roles as they were told to do so. Whether you agree with that is another matter. I'm on the fence- i've read a lot of studies, and there's a lot of evidence that points either way.
The SPE was one of the reasons all Psychology experiments must now be authorised by an ethics committee.

 

Good! There's so much more damage can be done to a person psychological than physically imho

 

Thats why I think it will be interesting after the two events what emotional/psychology scars Cullen might have and how they will affect his opinions, decisions and relationships with those around him

[Char]

I'll have to google her as I'm not familiar with her or the crime (must be diff countries).
It sounds like the reason I was taught in high school, don't call rape, call fire if we needed help. Sad but true.
Actually recently I was out for a retirement party and at 2am this girl lays into her boyfriend and jumps on him, hitting him. He doesn't hit her but just lays them both on pavement as they also went onto a busy road. Cops just happened by and pulled him off like he did everything.  I was walking past with my friend and her husband and after 5 metres I said to them I can't go, the cops have got it wrong (I was only slightly tipsy having stop drinking an hour before and eating fast food - as you do) and I went up to the cop and told him she started it, he never touch her (which they didn't listen and one layed into after I spoke to the other & walked off) but no one out of the 20 something people around stopped. Even the chick said it was her fault... I couldn't believe it.

She was killed in America in... 1932? But her murder is in the UK syllabus to open ideas about bystander apathy, altruism, and how we treat our fellow humans
Like I said though, many more modern studies (not case studies these days) have shown that many bystanders do and will help in a bad situation, but there does seem to be a general culture of "not my problem"

[Dirgegun]

*wheezes at certain thread*

 

Okay, I just needed to get that out of my system.

 

So. Cullen! Or Templars or DA:I!

 

Hmm...

 

I wonder if Cullen teaches the Templar specialisation, do you think he might warn a warrior Inquisitor away from it at first? Just because of the lyrium addiction issue?

[Dirgegun]

She was killed in America in... 1932? But her murder is in the UK syllabus to open ideas about bystander apathy, altruism, and how we treat our fellow humans
Like I said though, many more modern studies (not case studies these days) have shown that many bystanders do and will help in a bad situation, but there does seem to be a general culture of "not my problem"

 

And then you get the ones that  step over stab victims who are in the middle of the walkway... or worse, pull out their phones to start taking photos... 

[Char]

Ah Zimbardo's. My favourite experiment.

My favourite is Little Albert! Watson and Rayner were an unethical pair, but that study has stuck with me (it's always the mad scientists that stick ) though Sperry's split-brain research is close.