138842 réponses à ce sujet

[QueenofFereldan]

I don't know, he reminds me of Leliana of being devout. The only thing that made me shake my head is when he talked with Fenris to turn in Anders and Merrill.

[Potato Cat]

I didn't have Xbox Live until relatively recently, so when I finally was able to get my hands on the Seb DLC, it was a breath of fresh air. Especially since Fenris had all but totally devolved into 'grrr, mages!' and Anders into 'grrr, templars!' for me. So even if/when Seb devolves into 'yay, Andraste!', it'll still be a nice change of pace I suppose, if only because the guy's generally positive. It is a shame about the lack of content, but I suppose at least future DA games will recognise I romanced him.

Oh and the whole not flirting with anyone requirement is not true, by the way. I'm pretty sure the first time I romanced Seb I shagged Anders then told him to gtfo, if not it was a subsequent playthrough. I think you just have to make sure you're not considered to be in a romance with anyone.

[Lilaeth]

I was so thrown by someone in DA having the same accent as me, that I was quite suspicious of Seb.  Him being so devout didn't help either.  But we managed to become friends. 

[Potato Cat]

I was so thrown by someone in DA having the same accent as me, that I was quite suspicious of Seb.  Him being so devout didn't help either.  But we managed to become friends. 

Lol, my reaction to hearing Sera was 'OMG, she's English, but not a Southerner!!'. Granted I thought she was full on Northern, but the Midlands are okay I suppose.

[Tishina]

Chaste and celibate are the same. They don't have sex.
 

Actually, no, they do not mean the same thing. Chaste means "innocent of unlawful sexual intercourse" or "CHASTE primarily implies a refraining from acts or even thoughts or desires that are not virginal or not sanctioned by marriage vows." (Webster's Ninth Collegiate Dictionary). Celibate means no sex at all. Obviously someone who is chaste and unmarried is also celibate, but a vow of chastity just means abstaining until marriage. Now, the devs may have used the terms interchangeably and intended celibacy, but I can't imagine that word-smiths with their apparent knowledge from the games didn't know which word they were choosing. Or they intentionally chose that word knowing people would confuse them

[Tishina]

Taking an indefinite break from the Cullen thread. I may be back, I may not, Idk. Life's getting too tough over here.

We'll miss you! I hope things improve very soon for you.

[jtav]

They are using chase and celibate as synonyms. What's going on is this: http://en.wikipedia....ritual_marriage

[QueenofFereldan]

Actually, no, they do not mean the same thing. Chaste means "innocent of unlawful sexual intercourse" or "CHASTE primarily implies a refraining from acts or even thoughts or desires that are not virginal or not sanctioned by marriage vows." (Webster's Ninth Collegiate Dictionary). Celibate means no sex at all. Obviously someone who is chaste and unmarried is also celibate, but a vow of chastity just means abstaining until marriage. Now, the devs may have used the terms interchangeably and intended celibacy, but I can't imagine that word-smiths with their apparent knowledge from the games didn't know which word they were choosing. Or they intentionally chose that word knowing people would confuse them

...Stupid online dictionary. So, they must be celibate with the friendmance, unless he meant for them to wait until they got married, because he does say chaste marriage. But in rivalmance, they wait until marriage .

[Liadan]

More Cullen fanart :

 

By Mello

 

By  Randomchy

[Tishina]

They are using chase and celibate as synonyms. What's going on is this: http://en.wikipedia....ritual_marriage

Have the devs said that's what they mean by the use of chaste, especially in relationship to a Prince Sebastian-Viscount Hawke marriage? A chaste marriage CAN be celibate, but a chaste marriage can also mean one where the only sex is within a marriage. It's kind of like rectangles and squares. All squares are also rectangles, but all rectangles aren't squares.

 

Truthfully, I'm just pointing out that John-in-France was correct, that unless the devs have specified that a celibate spiritual marriage is what they mean, a chaste marriage between Seb and Hawke may not exclude sex. Now, since I believe the priests are required to take vows of celibacy, I assume that's what it means if he stays with the chantry. I don't like Sebastian much, so I personally don't have any interest in what kind of marriage it is, but I can understand why he's attractive to others. One of my big fears (until we saw the tweet about regular wooing) was that the Cullen romance might go down this path.

[riverbanks]

Chaste and celibate are the same. They don't have sex.

 

This is not necessarily true. At least in most Christian faiths, chaste does not mean celibate - all marriages are encouraged to be chaste. Chastity is more about preserving the sanctity of the act of sex as a celebration of love and not degrading it with hedonism and debauchery. This is a good read about it from a Chatolic perspective. (I'm not Christian myself, so don't take this as preaching - just clarifying that different religions can view the idea of chastity and celibacy as different things)

 

We don't know exactly what Andrastianism understands as the difference between chastity and celibacy, other than that Hawke and Sebastian don't immediately have sex (although Hawke hasn't given up on the idea, as per the Legacy banter with Carver), but I don't think it's too far off-beat to headcanon that even under the friendmance marriage they eventually might. Specially given that even a friendmanced Sebastian is not likely to passively stay in the Chantry watching the world go by, after the final events of the game. They could eventually have chaste sex under this marriage, that wouldn't go against their religious precepts.

 

Still, I wouldn't condemn Sebastian's romance on the fault of being chaste alone. There is something to be said for asexual players or characters having the choice of a romance that's not entirely predicated on sex. I'm not even asexual myself so I wouldn't want to appropriate that experience, but I find it very interesting and thought-provoking to roleplay a chaste relationship, and wouldn't mind if it stayed that way for my canon Hawke who married him. There's value in Sebastian loving Hawke so much he foregoes his vows for her, but there's also value in Hawke loving Sebastian so much that she respects his vows and doesn't force him into something he doesn't want.

 

Oh and the whole not flirting with anyone requirement is not true, by the way. I'm pretty sure the first time I romanced Seb I shagged Anders then told him to gtfo, if not it was a subsequent playthrough. I think you just have to make sure you're not considered to be in a romance with anyone.

 

This is true. My Seb-romancing Hawke slept with Isabela, Fenris and Anders first, and still got the chaste marriage with Sebastian in the end. You just have to be careful that you don't have any romance flags still activated and waiting for resolution by Act 3, so you have to do things in a certain order to make sure you've ended every other romance you may have started. Isabela cancels out by choosing to stay casual or end it for good, Fenris cancels out by sleeping with anyone else after him, and Anders cancels out by telling him to take a hike. Once you've cleared these, Sebastian will be willing to propose.

[john-in-france]

@Tishina, as far as I know the devs have not said anything about the link to spiritual marriage that is mentioned by Jtav. But hey, I'm not stalking tweets....maybe they have said something not in the Dragon Age wiki...

 

Regardless, I think that one is best left to headcannon, since it was never completed in game.

[Tishina]

Still, I wouldn't condemn Sebastian's romance on the fault of being chaste alone. There is something to be said for asexual players or characters having the choice of a romance that's not entirely predicated on sex. I'm not even asexual myself so I wouldn't want to appropriate that experience, but I find it very interesting and thought-provoking to roleplay a chaste relationship, and wouldn't mind if it stayed that way for my canon Hawke who married him. There's value in Sebastian loving Hawke so much he foregoes his vows for her, but there's also value in Hawke loving Sebastian so much that she respects his vows and doesn't force him into something he doesn't want.

 

 

This is true. My canon Hawke slept with Isabela, Fenris and Anders first, and still got the chaste marriage with to Sebastian in the end. You just have to be careful that you don't have any romance flags still activated and waiting for resolution by Act 3, so you have to do things in a certain order to make sure you've ended every other romance you may have started. Isabela cancels out by choosing to stay casual or end it for good, Fenris cancels out by sleeping with anyone else after him, and Anders cancels out by telling him to take a hike. Once you've cleared these, Sebastian will be willing to propose.

Like you, I like that there's a romance in there that (I hope) makes asexual players feel they have an appropriate option, though obviously they're the only ones who can says if it's respectful of them. I kind of feel the vagueness of "chaste marriage" allowed for logical head cannons of whether they remained celibate after marriage or not. And it sounds as if DAI has romances that don't require sex to continue, at least.

 

Too funny that you tested that with your Hawke, btw, but kind of appropriate considering Sebastian's pre-Chantry background...

[jtav]

Honestly, once I have confirmation the Sebastian romance counts and isn't going to be retconned, I'll probably replay the games and switch to him or Isabela.

[lil yonce]

Have the devs said that's what they mean by the use of chaste, especially in relationship to a Prince Sebastian-Viscount Hawke marriage? A chaste marriage CAN be celibate, but a chaste marriage can also mean one where the only sex is within a marriage. It's kind of like rectangles and squares. All squares are also rectangles, but all rectangles aren't squares.

 

Truthfully, I'm just pointing out that John-in-France was correct, that unless the devs have specified that a celibate spiritual marriage is what they mean, a chaste marriage between Seb and Hawke may not exclude sex. Now, since I believe the priests are required to take vows of celibacy, I assume that's what it means if he stays with the chantry. I don't like Sebastian much, so I personally don't have any interest in what kind of marriage it is, but I can understand why he's attractive to others. One of my big fears (until we saw the tweet about regular wooing) was that the Cullen romance might go down this path.

The Legacy DLC IMO indicates that married Hawke and Sebastian are not having sex. Bethany doesn't consider them really married, she puts the term in quotes, then makes a joke saying, "don't screw it up," wink, wink. And Carver doesn't understand how chaste marriage is really a thing either, and Hawke responds with, "would you feel better if I slept with him?"

 

[Sifr]

In regards to Seb's romance, it wasn't the lack of sex/romance that bothered me, it was more his lack of content. There wasn't anything added to his story-arc to make up for the lack of physical intimacy/sex scene. He was a DLC companion and he certainly felt like one, he wasn't even mentioned at the end of game by Varric which was sad. 

 

Obviously the game was rushed out the door, which explains why he felt tacked on. I'm incredibly glad that DAI has stepped away from doing DLC companions this time around.

 

Exactly so, he never felt as integrated into the plot as the other companions and always seemed to me to be the odd one out in the group. It also hurt his character that he only became a party member in Act 2, so he lost the three years of built up comraderie that the other companions shared by that point.

 

Plus banter between Varric and Sebastian suggests he dislikes him for being so pious and "squeaky clean". When you're disliked by the party member who's known for getting along with every party member and faction in the game, that's a major problem!

 

In Mass Effect, even DLC companions like Zaaed, Kasumi and Javik got more development and time to shine than Sebastian, and I always felt that they were criminally underused as it was, especially when the first two were pushed even further into the background in the third game!

 

_{(Which is why I thank every god in every pantheon for the Citadel DLC)}

[LolaLei]

Aw, apparently Cullen is Liz's "DA Garrus"... I wonder if he's kinda awkward to the point of amusing when it comes to romance, like Garrus was?

[berelinde]

Ha! Now I'm going to have to finish that Seb romance playthrough and save Legacy for post-game. Just to see those banters.

[Tishina]

Aw, apparently Cullen is Liz's "DA Garrus"... I wonder if he's kinda awkward to the point of amusing when it comes to romance, like Garrus was?

Oh, that would be great!

[jtav]

Aw, apparently Cullen is Liz's "DA Garrus"... I wonder if he's kinda awkward to the point of amusing when it comes to romance, like Garrus was?

I'm kind of getting that vibe from some dev comments. The funny thing is that I ended up adoring Garrus for what seemed to be different reasons to anyone else.

I think it would be kind of neat if someone did a "If You Like" post where they give suggestions on which DAI romance to try first based on your past favorites.

[LolaLei]

I'm kind of getting that vibe from some dev comments. 

 

I find it quite funny since the describe him as being a total BAMF in DAI, so to see him being completely "awkward" when it comes to romance like Mike Laidlaw described is actually pretty adorable, lol.

[riverbanks]

Too funny that you tested that with your Hawke, btw, but kind of appropriate considering Sebastian's pre-Chantry background...

 

I did roleplay her like that on purpose, because Hawke reads like a very lost and lonely person throughout the whole game, even when in a commited romance with any of the possible LIs. So for my final "this is how my world state goes into DAI" playthrough I decided my Hawke would be floundering, aimlessly hopping from relationship to relationship trying to cling onto something that wasn't there, only to figure out in the end that if there were any answers to be found they were all inside herself, not in anyone else's bed. She was going to end up single, actually, but then. Hawke's friendship with Sebastian is, in all of my playthroughs, a very grounding one, as he questions and challenges them through the whole game, encouraging Hawke to not just act for the sake of it, but think about why they act in this or that way, makes this or that choice - so I decided he would be the catalyst that triggers this change in my Hawke, and from there she sorta took a life of her own and decided for herself that she wanted to go for this, try a relationship that's based on love and companionship first of all, and where sex is a footnote, if it's ever there at all. And it turned out really well. The rest of the relationship would have to be headcanon'd since this romance is so short-changed, but with the lenghts that it allows me to go for roleplaying outside of the tried-and-true path, for thinking outside of my comfort box, this ended up being my favorite romance for femHawke in the end.

 

There's a funny note for something I did without even realizing regarding Seb's background when coming up with the backstory for my Trevelyan, though, that's made the whole thing too hilarious not to go with. I decided early on that the Trevelyans and Vaels would certainly be well connected, so my Trevelyan would have known Sebastian through his ~wild~ hedonistic youth, and obviously would have tapped like that it was on fire before they both sent to the Chantry for being shameful degenerates. Then, when doing the final DA2 playthrough, I decided Hawke would have had a secret affair with Cullen for a while, because the sexual tension between those two is delicious and who doesn't love a good tale of the Knight Captain meeting in secret with the Champion of Kirwall. Then, one day I was idly picturing a Orlesian ball scene where General Cullen and Inquisitor Trevelyan meet the Prince of Starkhaven and his wife the Champion of Kirwall... and it dawned on me that I'd put these four through a ridiculously awkward current-of-my-ex ex-of-my-current love square that even Varric wouldn't have come up with.

 

"Lady Trevelyan."

"Prince Vael."

"Knight-Captain."

"Champion."

 

It's like... the cheesiest, most contrived level of paperback novel Mary-Sueness one can subsconsciously come up with short of doing it on purpose for the keks. It's so ridiculous that it goes all the way around to hilarious and too good to pass on.

 

(meanwhile, the King of Ferelden and the Warden-Commander look on from a distance, shaking their heads and silently judging everyone...)

[Basement Cat]

I find it quite funny since the describe him as being a total BAMF in DAI, so to see him being completely "awkward" when it comes to romance like Mike Laidlaw described is actually pretty adorable, lol.

Understandable though. I can't imagine he has had too many opportunities to approach ladies with the various crises he has faced. He's like 'demons? Fight!', 'my superior's gone nuts? Fight!', 'the sky's torn open and demons are pouring out? Fight!', 'a woman is showing interest in me? Fi... uh... erm... what do I do? Oh Maker, she's standing so close. Uh.... smile! That should do it!'

[LolaLei]

Understandable though. I can't imagine he has had too many opportunities to approach ladies with the various crises he has faced. He's like 'demons? Fight!', 'my superior's gone nuts? Fight!', 'the sky's torn open and demons are pouring out? Fight!', 'a woman is showing interest in me? Fi... uh... erm... what do I do? Oh Maker, she's standing so close. Uh.... smile! That should do it!'

 

LOL, I reckon you're spot on.

[Sifr]

Actually, it's actually more adorable that Cullen's apparently a little awkward in a romance, since unlike Garrus, he's at least trying to woo his own species (or one that closely resembles it). Garrus on the other hand had obviously no idea what to make of FemShep and her human squishy attributes.

 

I can imagine an extra set in Skyhold's tavern after hours, where two people in hoods are conspiring.

 

Cullen: I'm glad you agreed to meet me. I need some help, I haven't had that much experience with courting... especially women of another species.

Garrus: You came to the right Turian, what do you need to know?