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[Xilizhra]

That's the part of Cullen I see as changing, though. My moral compass holds that magic needs some kind of oversight but not anything like what the Chantry does with the Circles. I saw Cullen as being the best person for heralding that new ideal. He was more moderate before. And he hasn't slipped into what Meredith was. He isn't 100% accepting of how things are. He seems to struggle with it internally. And finally acts. That's the part I'm most intrigued about: to see what he thinks now and if he can perceive his mistakes. I doubt he'd ever come all the way around to Anders ideal. But I think he can come a lot closer to that compromise between. And compromise is the only way, I see the conflict ever ending. Anders inflamed it instead. I can understand his position but I don't agree with full autonomy of mages. They shouldn't be denied families, or homes or the right to live as they wish; but I so think some oversight or laws pertaining to the use of their gifts are necessary because mages are still human and not all humans are good. But the mages shouldn't be treated as they are. As I said: Anders isn't wrong but he's also not right. Same goes for Cullen.

I don't see the overall conflict ever ending, period, at least in the foreseeable future. We still have many conflicts over race and the like in this world. And I certainly never saw this particular one simply going away; it had to happen so that it could be solved. Not that I support everything Anders did, But I definitely don't want Cullen to be the herald of this idea, though I'd be fine if he's one of its followers...

[Tishina]

I honestly don't see much new being said on the subject myself, and have no interest in debating Cullen v. Anders, though I do appreciate that the discussion has remained civil. I am unwilling to apply modern standards of morality to actions in a medieval-fantasy game. I'm actually one of the Cullenites who isn't necessarily a huge fan but is fascinated by the development and potential of the character. Until we see what his character has to say in DAI, we're all speculating based on the bits of info we've been given. And it's entirely possible that Cullen's redemption, if you want to call it that, may be pushed one way or the other by decisions we make in the game.

[CENIC]

You know, this discussion about the fighting in the Gallows during The Last Straw reminds me that when you side with the templars you get the option to spare those three mages who surrender, as well as Bethany, if she joined the Circle... but if you side with the mages, you aren't given any options to help anyone, at least not directly. It kinda leads to feeling like you were able to save more mages on the templar side than on the mage side...

[Natarsi]

I'd like to 'come out' and admit that I didn't like Cullen in DA:O and not in DA2 until the very end either.

When Cullen was released as key figure of DA:I I was like 'Bioware devs finally lost it. Who wants THAT guy anywhere in the game?!'

Strangely enough that changed when his character description was put up and I also remembered some things he said and did in DA2 that made me realize that my actions in DAO certainly left an impact with him and he feels like he's been thinking about all that. Also, him going agains the madwoman also aided his cause in my case.

 

After getting some sneak peeks at him in various vids, he rather grew on me. :3

 

So.

Now a question for the Cullenites: What eye color does Cullen have?

From what I've seen I think it's dark brown?

[Xilizhra]

You know, this discussion about the fighting in the Gallows during The Last Straw reminds me that when you side with the templars you get the option to spare those three mages who surrender, as well as Bethany, if she joined the Circle... but if you side with the mages, you aren't given any options to help anyone, at least not directly. It kinda leads to feeling like you were able to save more mages on the templar side than on the mage side...

Except for the five or six you save on the way to the docks? And Varric confirming that many mages survived at the end?

[Panda]

You know, this discussion about the fighting in the Gallows during The Last Straw reminds me that when you side with the templars you get the option to spare those three mages who surrender, as well as Bethany, if she joined the Circle... but if you side with the mages, you aren't given any options to help anyone, at least not directly. It kinda leads to feeling like you were able to save more mages on the templar side than on the mage side...

 

I have noticed this too and that's why I prefer siding with templar. I feel like mage ending leads to your failure, Meredith and Orsino kills everyone no matter how hard you are trying and then you have to flee the city. In templar ending you actually get something done and you can even stay in city.. to me it feels more rewarding and that's why I prefer it.

[Xilizhra]

I have noticed this too and that's why I prefer siding with templar. I feel like mage ending leads to your failure, Meredith and Orsino kills everyone no matter how hard you are trying and then you have to flee the city. In templar ending you actually get something done and you can even stay in city.. to me it feels more rewarding and that's why I prefer it.

The templar ending is the abject failure. The mage ending leads to your escape along with a bunch of other mages, in addition to the beginning of the conflict that can hopefully free them all.

[Panda]

So.

Now a question for the Cullenites: What eye color does Cullen have?

From what I've seen I think it's dark brown?

 

Hazel seems to be consensus.

[jtav]

And you get the tremendous satisfaction of calling Orsino out for his part in Leandra's death. Siding with the templars in general seems to provide a richer experience.

[Lady Shayna]

I should point out that the deaths of innocents were not the goal of blowing up the Chantry, and that the number of casualties would logically be far lower.

I wouldn't call Anders a "good" person at that moment, but I think that he'd be easier to redeem than Cullen.

Possible I missed something, having only watched cutscenes videos, but from his words the deaths were the point. The point was that he believed the deaths were necessary to push passions to where everyone had to take a side, and no one would be able to compromise anymore.

Barring some evidence that Anders did anything to reduce casualties of Chantry members and innocent chantry visitors alike, I'd see them equivalent in intent and effect, I'm afraid.

[Panda]

The templar ending is the abject failure. The mage ending leads to your escape along with a bunch of other mages, in addition to the beginning of the conflict that can hopefully free them all.

 

My goal was not to free them so that wouldn't work out for me nor I want to escape so I don't see the appeal.

[Xilizhra]

And you get the tremendous satisfaction of calling Orsino out for his part in Leandra's death. Siding with the templars in general seems to provide a richer experience.

Based on perceptions I find as unfathomable as R'lyeh.

 

 

Possible I missed something, having only watched cutscenes videos, but from his words the deaths were the point. The point was that he believed the deaths were necessary to push passions to where everyone had to take a side, and no one would be able to compromise anymore.

Barring some evidence that Anders did anything to reduce casualties of Chantry members and innocent chantry visitors alike, I'd see them equivalent in intent and effect, I'm afraid.

The only death that had a point was Elthina's, and she was by no means innocent.

 

 

My goal was not to free them so that wouldn't work out for me nor I want to escape so I don't see the appeal.

Then stopping the vicious genocidal fiends attacking the city?

[CENIC]

Except for the five or six you save on the way to the docks? And Varric confirming that many mages survived at the end?

I don't remember encountering any mages that weren't already abominations.
Also... the cutscenes always made the fight between the mages and templars look like a one-sided massacre, so while I do prefer siding with the mages personally, it feels like condemning them to their deaths forcing them to fight.
I trust Varric that we managed to save a lot of lives, but the cutscenes and encounters from the mage perspective did NOT give me much confidence!

[Xilizhra]

I don't remember encountering any mages that weren't already abominations.
Also... the cutscenes always made the fight between the mages and templars look like a one-sided massacre, so while I do prefer siding with the mages personally, it feels like condemning them to their deaths forcing them to fight.
I trust Varric that we managed to save a lot of lives, but the cutscenes and encounters from the mage perspective did NOT give me much confidence!

There's a bunch of mages being attacked by templars at the T-intersection right before moving down to the docks. They'll cheer you on if you talk to them after the fight.

[Lady Shayna]

I honestly don't see much new being said on the subject myself, and have no interest in debating Cullen v. Anders, though I do appreciate that the discussion has remained civil.

Yeah, this is likely tiresome to those who have been through this before. Apologies. I'll stop now.

[Panda]

Then stopping the vicious genocidal fiends attacking the city?

 

Stopping conflict and restoring order was my major goal but you didn't have good option for that in DA2. I find siding with templar better in this sense since you can't stop them killing from mages anyways and I bet bunch of templar with lead of Cullen are better in restoring order and the city than bunch of fleeing mages who might have becomed abominations and blood mages while defending themselves.

[CENIC]

There's a bunch of mages being attacked by templars at the T-intersection right before moving down to the docks. They'll cheer you on if you talk to them after the fight.

Oh! I remember that now! Sorry for doubting you.

[jtav]

Siding with the templars throughout Act 3 and into the endgame gets you Mereduth's backstory, tension with a GW sibling, calling out Orsino, an RP opportunity in what to do with the mages, and a nice Cullen scene. I prefer it.

[Xilizhra]

Stopping conflict and restoring order was my major goal but you didn't have good option for that in DA2. I find siding with templar better in this sense since you can't stop them killing from mages anyways and I bet bunch of templar with lead of Cullen are better in restoring order and the city than bunch of fleeing mages who might have becomed abominations and blood mages while defending themselves.

You can stop them from killing many mages... and you can also kill plenty of the aforementioned genocidal fiends, whom I would say are a rather big problem in and of themselves.

 

 

Oh! I remember that now! Sorry for doubting you.

It's fine.

[Panda]

Siding with the templars throughout Act 3 and into the endgame gets you Mereduth's backstory, tension with a GW sibling, calling out Orsino, an RP opportunity in what to do with the mages, and a nice Cullen scene. I prefer it.

 

Yep. Though the boat scene when you side with mages is pretty.

[wiccame]

I could have sympathized with him to a small extent before the Annulment. When he joined that, all sympathy evaporated. If I could have him and every other templar in Kirkwall stand trial for that after the war, I would, but perhaps his serving the Inquisition will be a sufficient debt to the people of Thedas.

Well at least you're not putting the sole blame on him. From what I have gleaned from other discussions is Cullen was to be held accountable for the whole thing.

 

But yeah templars do have an awful lot to answer for. They abused their power over mages, driving them to desperate measures which in turn drove the templars to tighten their grips. It's a vicious cycle, and in the end both sides need to take responsibilities for their own actions.

[Natarsi]

Hazel seems to be consensus.

 

Thank you -^^-

*goes to look for contact lenses*

 

I doubt my friends will ever go 'If you cosplay this and that character I'll do anything you want' on me again >:3
Also thought I didn't like Cullen that much while she loved him.
She barelly got to finish that sentence when I said 'DONE!'. *MWAHAHAHAHAHA*

 

For the record: I was being nice and she is going to be my Morrigan in ball dress

[jtav]

I don't make many moral choices in my games, instead going by what I think leads to the strongest story/most potential for fun later.

[Xilizhra]

Well at least you're not putting the sole blame on him. From what I have gleaned from other discussions is Cullen was to be held accountable for the whole thing.

 

But yeah templars do have an awful lot to answer for. They abused their power over mages, driving them to desperate measures which in turn drove the templars to tighten their grips. It's a vicious cycle, and in the end both sides need to take responsibilities for their own actions.

I look forward to hopefully ending this war in DAI.

[HiroVoid]

Nothing wrong in joining the templars in killing a bunch of hypocrytical blood mages and abominations.