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[littlenikki]

This is also what I assume (and it was interesting to write it that way in What Counts). It's tough that he requires Hawke's say so to override Meredith, which underscores yet again what a feat it is for him personally to do so in the ending. It's such an obvious evolution of his character that it's a shame most folks never see the pro-templar scenes.

 

*sigh* I really have to force myself to do a pro-templar playthrough before November. I've seen some clips on YT, but I feel like I'm probably missing a lot of little things by not doing it myself. It's so difficult to do since I usually play a mage for DA2 to keep Carver around, and it's confusing to RP a pro-templar mage that doesn't surrender herself to the Circle. The closest I can get is keeping Hawke sort of neutral until Mother dies, then have her go all anti-mage after. By then its more believable that she wouldn't turn herself in since most of them already know she's a mage at that point anyway. 

[Rinshikai10]

Interesting plot idea LolaLei, I wonder if Leliana or Cassandra have something similar.

[LolaLei]

Interesting plot idea LolaLei, I wonder if Leliana or Cassandra have something similar.

I think Leliana will be likely mourning the Divine's death, so she'll be all bitter and cold... for a while, at least.

[Lilaeth]

I think he should have stood up to Meredith before he went through with the annulment. I don't know if he agreed with Meredith's reasoning about stopping a riot or not, but it didn't sound like he thought the blood magic threat was serious enough to annul the circle. Maybe he can explain it, and maybe he'll just say its one of the biggest mistakes of his career, but my inquisitor won't be able to understand why he didn't take a stand earlier.

 

Basically, he's a military man.  Takes a lot for them to break the habit of being commanded, and to take on their commander. 

[MacyNell]

Perhaps that'll be part of his story-arc in DAI. Maybe that's why he's so intent on taking action and doing it right this time around, trying to redeem himself for his past mistakes.

I've always kind of imagined that it's his acknowledging of his past mistakes that prompted him to reevaluate the finer points of his philosophy, and that in turn is what motivates him in his role now in the Inquisition.  I try not to set myself up for disappointment by having undue expectations, but I admit that I am hoping to find a Cullen who is wiser and more open-minded but who is also just as dedicated and earnest as ever.

[R2s Muse]

 
That's something I found really interesting in Cullen's writer's interview where she says "The whole world's falling apart, and Cullen won't sit by and watch it happen. He wants to be part of the solution" and "Cullen is through with waiting for others to act, and he's determined that the Inquisition will make a difference for the people of Thedas". Kinda sounds like he's given himself a bit of a complex for not acting sooner.

This would be a great way for them to address his inaction in DA2. Although, I doubt the writers feel the same burning need that the fans do to defend understand it. Nevertheless, each of these comments, along with DG's, make it sound like we'll be meeting a more reflexive Cullen... which I like!

[R2s Muse]

*sigh* I really have to force myself to do a pro-templar playthrough before November. I've seen some clips on YT, but I feel like I'm probably missing a lot of little things by not doing it myself. It's so difficult to do since I usually play a mage for DA2 to keep Carver around, and it's confusing to RP a pro-templar mage that doesn't surrender herself to the Circle. The closest I can get is keeping Hawke sort of neutral until Mother dies, then have her go all anti-mage after. By then its more believable that she wouldn't turn herself in since most of them already know she's a mage at that point anyway. 

Yeah, I had to struggle over which of my pro-templar choices to pick, but eventually I ended up in a pretty good, defensible place for my Hawke who believed in the need for a system and order. When the chantry went boom she chose the 'I'm limiting casualties' approach to supporting Meredith which was still... tough, but made sense for her character. It personally felt like a middle of the road choice, altho the results always end up being represented as more black and white. 

[LolaLei]

This would be a great way for them to address his inaction in DA2. Although, I doubt the writers feel the same burning need that the fans do to defend understand it. Nevertheless, each of these comments, along with DG's, make it sound like we'll be meeting a more reflexive Cullen... which I like!

I think the fact that his writer actually acknowledge that he was fed up of waiting for other people to act bodes well. At the very least she took note of the fact that he gets a lot of stick for not acting sooner. If she's worked it into his character/story-arc then bonus!

[R2s Muse]

I think the fact that his writer actually acknowledge that he was fed up of waiting for other people to act bodes well. At the very least she took note of the fact that he gets a lot of stick for not acting sooner. If she's worked it into his character/story-arc then bonus!

So... yes, that's true. Altho, honestly... here's my one fear. The "oh, he just stayed in Kirkwall and fixed everything" answer for what happened to Cullen after 9:37 worries me. It feels far too simplistic given all the other data about who knew what and when. I know there's no way they thought about his character as much as we do... but I sincerely hope they didn't just brush all that under the rug. 

[LolaLei]

What I like, and I dunno if this is something that'll come up in game, but the fact that the option in the DA Keep for your Hawke to have been friends with Cullen, regardless of whether you were a mage, rogue, warrior, pro-mage, or pro-templar is a nice touch. It may well just be fan service, but either way it's a little more character growth for Cullen in that he did have at least one friend, and more importantly, that friend could have been pro-mage or an actual mage him/herself. That's progress!

[littlenikki]

Yeah, I had to struggle over which of my pro-templar choices to pick, but eventually I ended up in a pretty good, defensible place for my Hawke who believed in the need for a system and order. When the chantry went boom she chose the 'I'm limiting casualties' approach to supporting Meredith which was still... tough, but made sense for her character. It personally felt like a middle of the road choice, altho the results always end up being represented as more black and white. 

 

Did you kill Anders with your pro-templar Hawke? I know it's a possibility to let him live and fight w/ the templars, but I don't know if I'd be able to bring myself to make him do that 

[littlenikki]

Double post 

[LolaLei]

So... yes, that's true. Altho, honestly... here's my one fear. The "oh, he just stayed in Kirkwall and fixed everything" answer for what happened to Cullen after 9:37 worries me. It feels far too simplistic given all the other data about who knew what and when. I know there's no way they thought about his character as much as we do... but I sincerely hope they didn't just brush all that under the rug.

 
Yeah, too much character growth between games is a concern. I don't want him to be all healed when we meet him... that's no fun at all! Presumably putting Kirkwall back together, and then learning that the Order he's been apart of for most of his life have just split from the Chantry is bound to be a bit of a head-f*ck. In the interview she says it's something Cullen is still "processing", and the fact he can be seen still wearing at least one item of Templar paraphernalia at any given time seems to suggest that he's not "over" that particular issue, at least.
 
I'm wondering if his story-arc is going to heavily feature him not really knowing where he belongs or entirely who he is now that he's out of the Order.

[Potato Cat]

Did you kill Anders with your pro-templar Hawke? I know it's a possibility to let him live and fight w/ the templars, but I don't know if I'd be able to bring myself to make him do that 

I did that, but I also romanced Seb, so I believe the Keep is considering that the romance to have 'failed' in that case. Which is a real shame since I liked that moment for my B*tch!Hawke.

[R2s Muse]

Did you kill Anders with your pro-templar Hawke? I know it's a possibility to let him live and fight w/ the templars, but I don't know if I'd be able to bring myself to make him do that 

*gulp* yes.

 

But that's also because it was my Sebastian romance playthrough. *dodges tomatoes*

 

(edit: but, yeah, I don't think I could make Anders do that either. But I was sorta OK without him because that was my mage playthrough.)

[R2s Muse]

 
Yeah, too much character growth between games is a concern. I don't want him to be all healed when we meet him... that's no fun at all! Presumably putting Kirkwall back together, and then learning that the Order he's been apart of for most of his life have just split from the Chantry is bound to be a bit of a head-f*ck. In the interview she says it's something Cullen is still "processing", and the fact he can be seen still wearing at least one item of Templar paraphernalia at any given time seems to suggest that he's not "over" that particular issue, at least.
 
I'm wondering if his story-arc is going to heavily feature him not really knowing where he belongs or entirely who he is now that he's out of the Order.

I certainly would *hope* that would be an issue for him. I really see the Order as being a big part of his identity so, I mean, yeah, whoa, talk about head f*ck. 

 

Sadly... there are only so many words to be spent on him. I WANT TO KNOW ALL THE THINGS!! 

[LolaLei]

I certainly would *hope* that would be an issue for him. I really see the Order as being a big part of his identity so, I mean, yeah, whoa, talk about head f*ck. 

 

Sadly... there are only so many words to be spent on him. I WANT TO KNOW ALL THE THINGS!! 

 

The devs said that the character's clothes reflect their personalities, right? Like Cassandra's little hearts all over her armour hinting that she's a secret romantic (which we now know to be true), so, Cullen with his little Templar Insignias on his outfit, despite him saying (in that VO screenshot) in-game that "we are no longer templars" must be an indication of something. I mean, if he considered himself to be no longer be a Templar and had no problem with it then he would've cast off those Sword of Mercy gauntlets and tabards, but instead he still wears them when he could easily replace them with the Inquisition symbol or something else. 

 

The fact that they still remain on his person suggest that he's of the: "what am I, if not a Templar?" Mindset, which (in theory) would certainly lead some sort of head-mess, especially with the rebel Templars running around slaughtering mages in the streets, something he doesn't stand for, and to a greater extreme those red Templars huffing red lyrium and sprouting crystals... I had to fight loads of them in the DAMP demo, and they're all mutated to varying degrees, creepy as hell! Some of them are bound to be Templars that he once knew and fought along side with, what with it being discovered in Kirkwall 'n' everything. There's no way he left the Order and subsequently witnessed all that without being a bit traumatised.

 

If he isn't, then they've missed a really big opportunity with that one.

[Tishina]

 
Yeah, too much character growth between games is a concern. I don't want him to be all healed when we meet him... that's no fun at all! Presumably putting Kirkwall back together, and then learning that the Order he's been apart of for most of his life have just split from the Chantry is bound to be a bit of a head-f*ck. In the interview she says it's something Cullen is still "processing", and the fact he can be seen still wearing at least one item of Templar paraphernalia at any given time seems to suggest that he's not "over" that particular issue, at least.
 
I'm wondering if his story-arc is going to heavily feature him not really knowing where he belongs or entirely who he is now that he's out of the Order.

My impression is that they prefer to offer us LIs with at least some issue that they're dealing with (frankly, a person without some issue they're working through is going to be too perfect and boring). From what they've said, I think sorting out where he stands or who he now is will be part of his interactions with the Inquisitor. Some growth, yes. But he's the character with the most complicated issues waiting to be worked through, from a possible crush on an Amell/Surana, to being tortured to his role in what happened in Kirkwall to what's going on currently in the Mage-Templar war, with a side helping of lyrium addiction.

[lil yonce]

We don't know what Meredith told him. He wasn't there when Anders did the thing. In the Gallows he says that he hopes to resolve the conflict with little bloodshed. I suppose he hopes that if mages are innocent, they will surrender, and they will have to fight only blood mages (because initially it was supposed to be about blood mages, until Anders killed Elthina). But as they progress, he notices that Meredith just wants everyone dead, and realizes that she is the problem. Why didn't he oppose her until she turned on Hawke? Because it's difficult to do something like that when you are being attacked by mages, shades, demons and abominations, and that's what was happening, culminating in Orsino himself resorting to blood magic, and turning into a creepy flesh golem. I believe Cullen just didn't have the time to think it all through and act earlier. But I would like to hear what he has to say about that whole thing in DAI. I wonder what he was told about the annulment too.

Well, they did try to surrender. Orsino tells Meredith that she can imprison them and that he'll even help her search the tower, but she wants to do the annulment anyway. I don't see how Cullen didn't know what was going to happen or exactly why it was. Before it starts, I think he even says that the annulment in Ferelden was justified but he isn't sure about this one. So he wasn't sure but killed a lot of very potentially innocent people anyway, and my inquisitor will just never be able to get that. She'll eventually appreciate that he wants to kind of reset his karma with the inquisition, but even still she'll probably have a lot of anger about Kirkwall and what went on there for years with him as Knight-Captain.

[LolaLei]

My impression is that they prefer to offer us LIs with at least some issue that they're dealing with (frankly, a person without some issue they're working through is going to be too perfect and boring). From what they've said, I think sorting out where he stands or who he now is will be part of his interactions with the Inquisitor. Some growth, yes. But he's the character with the most complicated issues waiting to be worked through, from a possible crush on an Amell/Surana, to being tortured to his role in what happened in Kirkwall to what's going on currently in the Mage-Templar war, with a side helping of lyrium addiction.

 

Didn't the writers actually say that we'd get bored if they gave us a romance without any angst/issues to sort through? I feel like it was DG who said it, but don't quote me on that one.

 

I'm sure some sort of "omg nooooooo!" Moment will happen with Cullen, even if it's just external issues forcing them/almost forcing them apart, like the Fade breach killing us/nearly killing us when we try to close it or whatever.

[LolaLei]

Well, they did try to surrender. Orsino tells Meredith that she can imprison them and that he'll even help her search the tower, but she wants to do the annulment anyway. I don't see how Cullen didn't know what was going to happen or exactly why it was. Before it starts, I think he even says that the annulment in Ferelden was justified but he isn't sure about this one. So he wasn't sure but killed a lot of very potentially innocent people anyway, and my inquisitor will just never be able to get that. She'll eventually appreciate that he wants to kind of reset his karma with the inquisition, but even still she'll probably have a lot of anger about Kirkwall and what went on there for years with him as Knight-Captain.

 

If she even knows about what he did or didn't do in Kirkwall. If he doesn't mention it then it's just meta-gaming. Which is fine, your game, your rules, but that's based more on your feelings and opinions having lived through it as Hawke, rather than your Inquisitor having direct feelings or knowledge about it.

[Basement Cat]

Didn't the writers actually say that we'd get bored if they gave us a romance without any angst/issues to sort through? I feel like it was DG who said it, but don't quote me on that one.

 

I'm sure some sort of "omg nooooooo!" Moment will happen with Cullen, even if it's just external issues forcing them/almost forcing them apart, like the Fade breach killing us/nearly killing us when we try to close it or whatever.

If anyone talks about angst, it's a safe bet it's DG.

 

I'm sure we'll have some road blocks in the romance path. They might be minor or major, but i doubt it will be perfectly smooth sailing. Maybe Cullen's 'cleansing Aura' will fizzle or something...

[Tishina]

Didn't the writers actually say that we'd get bored if they gave us a romance without any angst/issues to sort through? I feel like it was DG who said it, but don't quote me on that one.

 

I'm sure some sort of "omg nooooooo!" Moment will happen with Cullen, even if it's just external issues forcing them/almost forcing them apart, like the Fade breach killing us/nearly killing us when we try to close it or whatever.

I don't know if they've said it, but they've certainly implied it.

[LolaLei]

If anyone talks about angst, it's a safe bet it's DG.

 

I'm sure we'll have some road blocks in the romance path. They might be minor or major, but i doubt it will be perfectly smooth sailing. Maybe Cullen's 'cleansing Aura' will fizzle or something...

 

I still find it odd knowing that Liz Lehtonen (one of the producers) has been romancing Cullen, and that they have regular "woo" breaks... it's just really surreal knowing not only that he's woo-able, but also completely happy to reciprocate the wooing! Like, we've been talking about it and writing/drawing it for years, and soon we'll actually be able to do it.

 

... More to the point, he willingly let's you! That's quite the progress coming from the man that ran away from your Warden in DA:O, and was completely shut off in DA2. Amazing! For a long time I really didn't think we'd ever actually get him in a game as an important character, let alone a romance option!

[lil yonce]

If she even knows about what he did or didn't do in Kirkwall. If he doesn't mention it then it's just meta-gaming. Which is fine, your game, your rules, but that's based more on your feelings and opinions having lived through it as Hawke, rather than your Inquisitor having direct feelings or knowledge about it.

Well, she doesn't have to know the details of his job, but I assume that the game will tell me why he's qualified to be the inquisiton's military advisor, and how he even hooked up with Cassandra and Leliana after Kirkwall, so I assume that she will know that he was the Knight Captain at the Kirkwall Circle, and that's really as she needs to know in her opinion. The abuses in Kirkwall were known about in Asunder by the White Spire mages and templars, so I'd think my inquisitor would have a general impression of them too. I don't want her to be angry the whole game, I want her to believe in redemption, so she'll probably be upset for a while, but not the whole game.