138952 réponses à ce sujet

[Sifr]

Well, I think it's only because Kirkwall is basically more extreme than Ferelden in a lot of ways.  (For good reason according to what its built on.)

 

My mage Warden agreed to annul the Ferelden Circle because it was specifically said that all the surviving mages would be interrogated/investigated.  Not killed outright, and not made tranquil.  Which is apparently the case, since in my game Irving then saved Connor in the Fade.

 

I watched that scene from Origins earlier and despite Irving's look of despair that it's come to it, it's interesting that he does actually agree that due to the corruption within the Circle and the amount of followers that Uldred had in the ranks, no-one can be sure if some of the survivors are not Maleficarum. While Greagoir implies that there might be some... unpleasant... methods used in the interrogations, it does seem like they're at least willing to be fair and test to see whether they're corrupted or not. The only thing I didn't like is that it falls down to a Cleric to see what should be their fate and depending on who you get, innocent people might have ended up having their lifes depend on someone tolerant like Elthina or a zealot like Petrice?

 

The problem in DA2 when it came down to the wire, is that the Mages were shown often in a more favourable light than the Templars, right up until the end when you learn that some of them actually were Blood Mages after all. It also didn't really help that most of Hawke's family are mages and unlike Carver, we're not given much in the way of justification for why Hawke might hate magic?

[Damate]

There are plenty of things I enjoyed about DA2, but the end of Act 3... Heck, the main plotline if Act 3 in general... Was, imo, poorly executed throughout. Interesting premise but too much felt damned-if-you-do-damned-if-you-don't. To the point where I honestly just wanted to wash my hands of the whole affair. No side was guiltless or blameless, that's for sure. And while it felt easier to sympathize with the mages I still wanted to smack them around, too. But it felt wrong siding with the Templars because we weren't really given the chance to provide a good, personal justification for it. Too much hand waving of a really complex situation.

My only big concern for DAI is that I'll have that same feeling when it comes to dealing with the big side issues: Mage/Templar/Chantry, Orlais, Elves...
I really hope we can make real impacts and not just be forced to condone/condemn one side or another. *fingers crossed*

[QueenofFereldan]

What would really be nice is to have them actually make the two sides of the conflict grey. Not favoring one side over the other.

[Tielis]

There are plenty of things I enjoyed about DA2, but the end of Act 3... Heck, the main plotline if Act 3 in general... Was, imo, poorly executed throughout. Interesting premise but too much felt damned-if-you-do-damned-if-you-don't. To the point where I honestly just wanted to wash my hands of the whole affair. No side was guiltless or blameless, that's for sure. And while it felt easier to sympathize with the mages I still wanted to smack them around, too. But it felt wrong siding with the Templars because we weren't really given the chance to provide a good, personal justification for it. Too much hand waving of a really complex situation.

My only big concern for DAI is that I'll have that same feeling when it comes to dealing with the big side issues: Mage/Templar/Chantry, Orlais, Elves...
I really hope we can make real impacts and not just be forced to condone/condemn one side or another. *fingers crossed*

 

Yes, definitely.  I felt that much of DA2 was... juvenile.

[CuriousArtemis]

It was badly done, but they did give you the option to spare some mages

 

You don't know that till after you make the decision though! Why would you ever make that choice in the first place? 

[CuriousArtemis]

I actually only sided with the templars in my first game because I was afraid I'd have to kill Carver otherwise.

 

That at least I can understand

[CuriousArtemis]

Protect city from abominations and blood mages and end the unnecessary fight as quickly and little bloodshed as possible.

 

Yeah but you don't know that every (or any) mage in the Circle is possessed or even knows a thing about blood magic. They could all be 100% innocent... there's no proof presented to the player whatsoever.

[AresKeith]

You don't know that till after you make the decision though! Why would you ever make that choice in the first place? 

 

The game still barely managed to also show corruption within the Circle 

[CuriousArtemis]

If we'd had a scene where we see Anders go to a meeting of the Mage Underground, only to find them all wiped out by the Templars (which does happen, only offscreen), it would have made Anders much more sympathetic because we could understand why he went to the extreme lengths he did.

 

    Are you serious??? This really happened?? Poor baby! No wonder he freaked out! (And he probably revealed this in dialogue but I completely ignored/forgot it )

[CuriousArtemis]

Well, if you're a power-hungry Hawke, you can find several hints throughout Act 3 that siding with the templars is the only way to take power.

 

The presentation of the mage-templar conflict does leave much to be desired, however.

 

LOL That's true. But that kind of solidifies it as the "evil" option. 

[QueenofFereldan]

The game still barely managed to also show corruption within the Circle 

 

Agreed. In fact, I was pro mage for so long because of DA2. Then, I began to see some of the good Templars and then I started to think of the Templar ending. They should've done better with writing this; show more corruption within the Circle to justify Meredith's actions, while doing more to show the Templars in a good light as well as bad. That way, when you reach the end, you HAVE to actually think on your choice.

[CuriousArtemis]

My mage Warden agreed to annul the Ferelden Circle because it was specifically said that all the surviving mages would be interrogated/investigated.  Not killed outright, and not made tranquil.  Which is apparently the case, since in my game Irving then saved Connor in the Fade.

 

Oh wow, I didn't know that! But yeah, annulling the Ferelden Circle makes more sense to the player because you are given evidence that the Circle is corrupt. I mean the damn thing is literally sealed off so the crazy possessed demon mages can't escape

[LolaLei]

Completely off-topic but I love watching Freddie Prinze Jr using Twitter, it's like witnessing a really confused kid run around hyped up on E-numbers. I swear he's literally the living embodiment of James Vega, I don't think he even needed to act for that role, LOL!     

[Sifr]

There are plenty of things I enjoyed about DA2, but the end of Act 3... Heck, the main plotline if Act 3 in general... Was, imo, poorly executed throughout. Interesting premise but too much felt damned-if-you-do-damned-if-you-don't. To the point where I honestly just wanted to wash my hands of the whole affair. No side was guiltless or blameless, that's for sure. And while it felt easier to sympathize with the mages I still wanted to smack them around, too. But it felt wrong siding with the Templars because we weren't really given the chance to provide a good, personal justification for it. Too much hand waving of a really complex situation.

My only big concern for DAI is that I'll have that same feeling when it comes to dealing with the big side issues: Mage/Templar/Chantry, Orlais, Elves...
I really hope we can make real impacts and not just be forced to condone/condemn one side or another. *fingers crossed*

 

My hope is that they've listened to the criticisms from DA2 regarding the ending, so we'll have either more options in DAI to either resolve problems peacefully (ala the Geth and the Quarians in ME3) or be provided with more shades of grey when it comes to making hard decisions?

 

Bhelen and Harrowmont are a great example of what kind of decisions I like. Do you favour the kind and fair, intolerant traditionalist who'd cripple Orzammar, or do you support the corrupt and ruthless, progressive tyrant who wants to open Orzammar to the world?

 

If Orsino was revealed to have been a Blood Mage and the real mastermind behind the Mage Underground that Anders is a member of, would you have still sided with him even if meant protecting the mages? Or if Meredith was not corrupted by Red Lyrium but was merely a tough woman doing a very stressful job, do you side with her to stop a dangeorus individual like Orsino and his followers using the chaos to seize power, preferring to restore order?

[LolaLei]

    Are you serious??? This really happened?? Poor baby! No wonder he freaked out! (And he probably revealed this in dialogue but I completely ignored/forgot it )

 

I romanced him and I don't even remember him mentioning it!     

[CuriousArtemis]

Also, Anders escaped about 3 times from the Circle---in Witch Hunt it seems like it's a running joke. I don't think if someone attempted to escape the Circle in Kirkwall 3 times that Meredith would be so tolerant.

 

I think he escaped many, many more times than that! 

[CuriousArtemis]

That's like going on the internet and asking a real life mountain to move. I'll post something, but I doubt it will do anything. It's like the deal with Fenris/Isabela, people get worked up over it still.

 

KEEP PICKING AT MY WOUND why don't you

[HiroVoid]

Oh wow, I didn't know that! But yeah, annulling the Ferelden Circle makes more sense to the player because you are given evidence that the Circle is corrupt. I mean the damn thing is literally sealed off so the crazy possessed demon mages can't escape

Yeah.  I've always been curious how well demons can actually hide in humans like the desire demon that lived in the cat.  If they can hide really well like that and manipulate things on the surface that way, there's cause for concern especially in DA:O since the tower was basically controlled by demon for probably at least days, if not a week or so.  Gregaior also only called for annulment once he actually needed reinforcements and the mages and templars inside were at the demon's mercy.  I always found it weird how I found the predicament in DA:O more gray than the actual one in DAII which is supposed to be the big choice at the end.

[CuriousArtemis]

It also didn't really help that most of Hawke's family are mages and unlike Carver, we're not given much in the way of justification for why Hawke might hate magic?

 

Yeah, this was pretty frustrating.

 

1. If you're a mage, there's no reason to be pro-Circle, unless you headcanon some sort of self-loathing about your Hawke, or that your Hawke is on a power trip who thinks only s/he is capable of handling his/her power outside the Circle, but everyone else should be locked up.

 

2. If you're not a mage, your sister is a mage, and your family has spent her entire life attempting to keep that a secret. You aren't given any indication that Hawke resents this, nor are there dialogue options allowing this to be expressed. So, again, you have to headcanon that you are perhaps resentful of the sacrifices the family have made in her name (which I did for my pro-templar Hawke).

[jtav]

Wait wait, what? When I sided with the templars via telling Gregoir Cullen was right, the Connor and Dagna options were closed to me.

[HiroVoid]

I think he escaped many, many more times than that! 

Yeah.  Though apparently Meredith let blood mages return if I remember right......Bioware sometimes seems inconsistent about how the laws work in circles.  Might be the case of having multiple writers though they seem pretty consistent with each other otherwise.

[CuriousArtemis]

The game still barely managed to also show corruption within the Circle 

 

Where? You mean like the letter Orsino leaves the serial killer? Even so, that's only proof that one person is corrupt, not the entire Circle. And in DA2, it's presented to you that to annul the Circle is to murder every mage in it, down to the last child.

[CuriousArtemis]

Completely off-topic but I love watching Freddie Prinze Jr using Twitter, it's like witnessing a really confused kid run around hyped up on E-numbers. I swear he's literally the living embodiment of James Vega, I don't think he even needed to act for that role, LOL!     

 

I kind of wish he'd hush up sometimes because his sexed up jokes about Iron Bull are really turning me off the character!

[HiroVoid]

Where? You mean like the letter Orsino leaves the serial killer? Even so, that's only proof that one person is corrupt, not the entire Circle. And in DA2, it's presented to you that to annul the Circle is to murder every mage in it, down to the last child.

Except when you don't in the latter.....though yeah.  Like you said, its presented as that.  Same with Gregaior where he mentions interrogations instead of just killing everyone.

[CuriousArtemis]

My hope is that they've listened to the criticisms from DA2 regarding the ending, so we'll have either more options in DAI to either resolve problems peacefully (ala the Geth and the Quarians in ME3) or be provided with more shades of grey when it comes to making hard decisions?

 

Bhelen and Harrowmont are a great example of what kind of decisions I like. Do you favour the kind and fair, intolerant traditionalist who'd cripple Orzammar, or do you support the corrupt and ruthless, progressive tyrant who wants to open Orzammar to the world?

 

If Orsino was revealed to have been a Blood Mage and the real mastermind behind the Mage Underground that Anders is a member of, would you have still sided with him even if meant protecting the mages? Or if Meredith was not corrupted by Red Lyrium but was merely a tough woman doing a very stressful job, do you side with her to stop a dangeorus individual like Orsino and his followers using the chaos to seize power, preferring to restore order?

 

The problem with the Bhelen/Harrowmont situation though is that you don't realize how awful Bhelen is as a person unless you do the dwarf origin. So I picked Bhelen both times. Then when I played the Aeducan route I was horrified LOL!