The black and white looks so much better.
Makes more sense to me too. The Inquisition symbol is a black background with a hairy white eyeball...
So, if sided with the templars in DA2, Hawke tells the Inquisitor that he eventually went into hiding because the templars started using red lyrium and came after him. But Cullen was supposed to be the Knight Commander in Kirkwall at the time, and there's no way Cullen would let the men in his care start huffing the red stuff, so surely he would've noticed? Or had Cullen already left Kirkwall to join the Inquisition by that point?
Yeah, I've been wondering about this, too, and I sorta feel like there are some holes in Hawke's story. I mean, on one hand, I could see the templar red lyrium prob starting in Kirkwall with that Meredith statue in courtyard corrupting people. Like we've discussed a billion times. But... Cullen doesn't seem to know all that much about templars taking it, which does suggest either Hawke knows more about his templars than he does (unlikely, unless he was still in his oblivious phase 
), or he left earlier than all that.
Sadly, the timeline for 9:38-9:41 is mucked up again in game, so I expect the timing to be handwaved again. According to some of the new codices and dialogue, the new Lord Seeker took over before the old one died, the Conclave was in 9:40 and 9:41, stuff like that. *sigh* It's Asunder all over again.
I think I just prefer the woman to be dominant or at least equal (like in Fenris's scene). Probably why I generally dislike heterosexual romances
That's a pretty wild leap of logic there, from a hand on the waist to heterosexual romances are generally submissive. Careful with the blanket statements, etc.
What is this about cullen and brothels? When have we ever seen him interact with one?
DA2, in the Act 1 quest to find the two missing Templar recruits. Cullen doesn't interact with the brothel, but at some point you tell him the recruits were last seen at the brothel and he mentions having been there and trying to interrogate the prostitutes about the disappearances before.
Whether he's been there before for more than just interrogations is anyone's headcanon.
Yeah, I've been wondering about this, too, and I sorta feel like there are some holes in Hawke's story. I mean, on one hand, I could see the templar red lyrium prob starting in Kirkwall with that Meredith statue in courtyard corrupting people. Like we've discussed a billion times. But... Cullen doesn't seem to know all that much about templars taking it, which does suggest either Hawke knows more about his templars than he does (unlikely, unless he was still in his oblivious phase
Sadly, the timeline for 9:38-9:41 is mucked up again in game, so I expect the timing to be handwaved again. According to some of the new codices and dialogue, the new Lord Seeker took over before the old one died, the Conclave was in 9:40 and 9:41, stuff like that. *sigh* It's Asunder all over again.
Ouch! I hadn't even noticed. Normally I would say my lack of attention to detail is a bad thing but in instances like these I'm glad I'm Cpt Oblivious, "what you don't know, can't hurt you" 
I took Cole in my party into the Fade....... 
Poor guy, I won't do that again in a hurry, although your pc has no clue what's going to happen on that quest chain I felt so horrid and mean having taken him.
Came across the most random, stupidly annoying quest ever for the first time last night, collect 48 copies of Hard in Hightown around and about Skyhold, I've only found 43, even Cullen had a copy in his room lol sick of running around now, I'm hoping I'll just randomly stumble on the other 5 at some point lol
I haven't came across Quizquisition dude this run though hmmm I wonder where he is hanging out lol it's most annoying to know that he is skulking about somewhere but not knowing where lol.
Oh jeez yeah. I need to play the whole series again, such a shame...DA2, in the Act 1 quest to find the two missing Templar recruits. Cullen doesn't interact with the brothel, but at some point you tell him the recruits were last seen at the brothel and he mentions having been there and trying to interrogate the prostitutes about the disappearances before.
Whether he's been there before for more than just interrogations is anyone's headcanon.
Came across the most random, stupidly annoying quest ever for the first time last night, collect 48 copies of Hard in Hightown around and about Skyhold, I've only found 43, even Cullen had a copy in his room lol sick of running around now, I'm hoping I'll just randomly stumble on the other 5 at some point lol
I haven't came across Quizquisition dude this run though hmmm I wonder where he is hanging out lol it's most annoying to know that he is skulking about somewhere but not knowing where lol.
There's a quest for this? How do you get it?
The quizquisition guy might be hiding in the vault. That's where I found him.
I mean, on one hand, I could see the templar red lyrium prob starting in Kirkwall with that Meredith statue in courtyard corrupting people. Like we've discussed a billion times. But... Cullen doesn't seem to know all that much about templars taking it, which does suggest either Hawke knows more about his templars than he does (unlikely, unless he was still in his oblivious phase
He couldn't have left before Hawke, because his letter to Mia and his conversations with IQ place Cassandra's offer to join the Inquisition as his final deciding factor in leaving the Templars, and Cassandra only arrived in Kirkwall three years after the Anders incident.
It doesn't seem very complicated, though - the Kight-Commander is very busy, and not all-knowing. The Templars did all kinds of stuf without Meredith's or Cullen's knowlege before (he does tell you he thought everything was normal at the Circle but he should have looked harder into it). Thrask was even able to colaborate with the mage underground and start his own rebel cell among the Templars, right under Meredith's eye. After the destruction of the Chantry and the rebellion in the Circle, Cullen would be stretching his attention everywhere, the survivor searches and reconstruction efforts in the city, trying to run the Circle with what's left of his men and the few surviving mages, working with Aveline and Hawke to keep the peace etc, and Templars messing with Red Lyrium in secret could easily have escaped him while they didn't yet develop the visible symptons.
Those Templars could have involved Hawke in dealings or blackmail (she does have seven years of dirty laundry around the city), without using the Order's name, making it even more unlikely that Cullen would find out unless Hawke told him about it. She might have chosen to leave some time around this, for... whatever reasons, leaving Cullen with a growing problem he didn't know about, or even did know, but couldn't combat on his own. At the time Hawke leaves, it's possible Cullen did already know about the Red Lyrium problem, but his leadership among the remanining Templars in Kirkwall is already slipping and there's not much he can do, contributing to his frustrations and making him consider quitting, and that's when Cassandra comes in with her offer. (at least that's one way to make him quitting make sense)
There's a quest for this? How do you get it?
The quizquisition guy might be hiding in the vault. That's where I found him.
There is a dark haired, male elf mage in the circular library, standing just past the table where you hand in research items, I was spam clicking him for his chat and he complained about having lost all but 4 copies of HiH and the quest just appeared in my journal under Skyhold.
I found Mr Quizquisition in my jail on the last playthrough, I'll have a look downstairs in the vaults for him, ty for the hint
Oo I keep forgetting to look for this guy, haven't met him yet and in my 2nd pt. Heard he could show up in your bedroom, which I never go to :/ I would love to hunt down hard in hightown, I need a good readThere's a quest for this? How do you get it?
The quizquisition guy might be hiding in the vault. That's where I found him.
So, Solas kissed me!!! squeeee!!!
I'm not ninjamanced after all! Thanks all for your help!
My Quiz:
Spoiler
(sorry Cullen!)
Yes, that is one steamy kiss!
Came across the most random, stupidly annoying quest ever for the first time last night, collect 48 copies of Hard in Hightown around and about Skyhold, I've only found 43, even Cullen had a copy in his room lol sick of running around now, I'm hoping I'll just randomly stumble on the other 5 at some point lol
I haven't came across Quizquisition dude this run though hmmm I wonder where he is hanging out lol it's most annoying to know that he is skulking about somewhere but not knowing where lol.
You'll hate me for saying this, but it's actually rather easy to do because every copy respawns everytime you leave and come back to Skyhold. LOL So once you know where there's a stack near some of the companions, you can just pick em up everytime you swing by. Like Viv has a stack of 3-4.
He couldn't have left before Hawke, because his letter to Mia and his conversations with IQ place Cassandra's offer to join the Inquisition as his final deciding factor in leaving the Templars, and Cassandra only arrived in Kirkwall three years after the Anders incident.
It doesn't seem very complicated, though - the Kight-Commander is very busy, and not all-knowing. The Templars did all kinds of stuf without Meredith's or Cullen's knowlege before (he does tell you he thought everything was normal at the Circle but he should have looked harder into it). Thrask was even able to colaborate with the mage underground and start his own rebel cell among the Templars, right under Meredith's eye. After the destruction of the Chantry and the rebellion in the Circle, Cullen would be stretching his attention everywhere, the survivor searches and reconstruction efforts in the city, trying to run the Circle with what's left of his men and the few surviving mages, working with Aveline and Hawke to keep the peace etc, and Templars messing with Red Lyrium in secret could easily have escaped him while they didn't yet develop the visible symptons.
Those Templars could have involved Hawke in dealings or blackmail (she does have seven years of dirty laundry around the city), without using the Order's name, making it even more unlikely that Cullen would find out unless Hawke told him about it. She might have chosen to leave some time around this, for... whatever reasons, leaving Cullen with a growing problem he didn't know about, or even did know, but couldn't combat on his own. At the time Hawke leaves, it's possible Cullen did already know about the Red Lyrium problem, but his leadership among the remanining Templars in Kirkwall is already slipping and there's not much he can do, contributing to his frustrations and making him consider quitting, and that's when Cassandra comes in with her offer. (at least that's one way to make him quitting make sense)
Possible. Not sure I buy it, tho. Hawke made it seem like a problem she had to distance herself from. Not just a one-off problem that could have escaped Cullen's knowledge. *sigh* Who knows. I'm just tired of the "Cullen is oblivious" reason, I guess.
I haven't came across Quizquisition dude this run though hmmm I wonder where he is hanging out lol it's most annoying to know that he is skulking about somewhere but not knowing where lol.
Haven't run across Lord Trifles in this playthrough either, and I'm starting to think he's stuck in the Uncle Scrooge vault I don't have access to with this character. :\ Sucks that he can spawn in these weird places and get stuck there for the whole game.
You'll hate me for saying this, but it's actually rather easy to do because every copy respawns everytime you leave and come back to Skyhold. LOL So once you know where there's a stack near some of the companions, you can just pick em up everytime you swing by. Like Viv has a stack of 3-4.
Dammit to heck and back again I had no idea, I was at it for.....well too long last night but I didn't leave Skyhold atall once I had picked up the quest. I'll be able to finish it today then, Ty soooo much, you're a life/time saver!
Yes, that is one steamy kiss!
*fans self* Indeed. I love how the kiss animation is unique for each character and fits them. That's such an evolution from DA:O!! I mean. Unf.
(romance spoilery-ish?)
Dammit to heck and back again
LOL You're welcome! I read about that somewhere, too, which helped *immensely*!
So I am at the point after Cullen's first kiss, where I now have that option to ask him to sneak away for a kiss(seems like you can do this as much as you want?). And I was just wondering will the romance not progress any further until I do more of the main story? The next thing for me to do I think is go to that Orlais ball. But I have just unlocked a ton of new areas, and have like a bazzilion sidequests, so I wanted to get all that done, which will probably take forever, so just wondering if nothing new will happen with Cullen for a while, so I don't bother running over to him every time and talking with him to check. I do have his personal quests about Samson, but I am assuming if there are any cutscenes with that they will not be romance related, since that is a quest anybody can do whether you romance him or now.
WARNING WARNING! THIS VIDEO WILL MAKE YOU FEEL ALL THE FEELS!!!! Ahem...now since that is out of my system I thought I would post a video that I found and it is just...well it throws all the Amell/Surana videos out of the water in the regards of the Cullen romance and the...whatever that was in DA:O. Romance spoilers for the Cullen romance...sorry Boom...
Spoiler
All the feels... I've just shown this video to a friend who played DA2 & DA:O & not wanting to play DA:I. Now she's buying the game from Amazon
Okay, we've said this thousands of time, I've said it thousands of time, but Cullen's so amazing. Guess that I'll never be able to romance anyone else... Now that I've seen most companions/advisors romance on YT, turn out that my favourite one is the "extra bonus" one. Well, tbh Dorian's & Cass is also something...
Possible. Not sure I buy it, tho. Hawke made it seem like a problem she had to distance herself from. Not just a one-off problem that could have escaped Cullen's knowledge. *sigh* Who knows. I'm just tired of the "Cullen is oblivious" reason, I guess.
I honestly don't think he has to be oblivious. He could have known of the growing problem with Red Lyirum, but even as Commander, there's only so much he can do. He can't just kick people out of the Order for using Red Lyirum (not at that point of the story) just because it gives him the heebie-jeebies - he could skirt the military protocol and throw people out on a whim, but that would make him no better than Meredith. Further, he has only a few dozen Templars left under his command, few enough that Starkhaven has to send him Templars from their ranks, so it's not like he can afford to lose men, when his command over them is shaky enough as it is (I don't imagine Alrik or Samson being that content with taking orders from a junior, for instance).
On Hawke's front - if Bethany is in the Circle (which she is my game), the Templars still hold power over her, and that's something that can be wielded against Hawke even as she sits the throne. Her association with Anders was also widely known, and some Templars might question that making her Viscount is rewarding the terrorist's actions. If Hawke still associates with Merrill, then there's accusations that the Viscount is harboring apostates. If Viscount Hawke is a mage herself... yeah. There's a lot that can be used against Hawke by people with enough beefs to grind.
I can imagine someone like Alrik getting involved with Red Lyrium and losing what little sense was left in that rotten melon of his, making Hawke's life hell and using all sorts of underhanded means to blackmail her until she doesn't feel safe in Kirkwall anymore, all while Cullen is too tied up in protocols and rules and politics, maybe waiting for word from the Knight-Vigilant, maybe caught up in the mess going on in Orlais, maybe even away attending Lambert's conclave, and that -watching Hawke be run out of her office by his own out of control men- is one of the reasons he's so frustrated and angry with the Order by the time Cassandra comes around.
So I am at the point after Cullen's first kiss, where I now have that option to ask him to sneak away for a kiss(seems like you can do this as much as you want?). And I was just wondering will the romance not progress any further until I do more of the main story?
Have you done his personal lyrium quest yet? If not, you have a few cutscenes coming yet. If you have, there's one more romance-specific cutscene you should get at some point (the gift scene), so keep talking to him. Otherwise, you'll have to make do with the radiant kissing breaks (you can repeat that as many times as you want, yeah) until you finish both Here Lies the Abyss and Wicked Eyes and Wicked Hearts. The next stage of the relationship (where you "lock in" with Cullen for good) will only progress after these two quests are complete.
There's some nice romance stuff to look up to yet, but I wouldn't rush the Orlesian ball just to get to it, because you can exaust it pretty quickly and be left with nothing for the final leg of the game. You do better pacing yourself with the radiant kiss now and getting his romance content naturally as it comes, than rushing through everything and having only the radiant kiss left to carry you over to the end.
I honestly don't think he has to be oblivious. He could have known of the growing problem with Red Lyirum, but even as Commander, there's only so much he can do. He can't just kick people out of the Order for using Red Lyirum (not at that point of the story) just because it gives him the heebie-jeebies - he could skirt the military protocol and throw people out on a whim, but that would make him no better than Meredith. Further, he has only a few dozen Templars left under his command, few enough that Starkhaven has to send him Templars from their ranks, so it's not like he can afford to lose men, when his command over them is shaky enough as it is (I don't imagine Alrik or Samson being that content with taking orders from a junior, for instance).
On Hawke's front - if Bethany is in the Circle (which she is my game), the Templars still hold power over her, and that's something that can be wielded against Hawke even as she sits the throne. Her association with Anders was also widely known, and some Templars might question that making her Viscount is rewarding the terrorist's actions. If Hawke still associates with Merrill, then there's accusations that the Viscount is harboring apostates. If Viscount Hawke is a mage herself... yeah. There's a lot that can be used against Hawke by people with enough beefs to grind.
I can imagine someone like Alrik getting involved with Red Lyrium and losing what little sense was left in that rotten melon of his, making Hawke's life hell and using all sorts of underhanded means to blackmail her until she doesn't feel safe in Kirkwall anymore, all while Cullen is too tied up in protocols and rules and politics, maybe waiting for word from the Knight-Vigilant, maybe caught up in the mess going on in Orlais, maybe even away attending Lambert's conclave, and that -watching Hawke be run out of her office by his own out of control men- is one of the reasons he's so frustrated and angry with the Order by the time Cassandra comes around.
Mmm, after all the sh!t Hawke pulled in DA2, I'm not sure I see her being that vulnerable once she has actual power. Sure, she now has politics to deal with, but Bethany/Anders/all that existed before DA2 ended and she never let that stop her.
Anyway, for me, it's not the degree of oblivious, it's the fact that "Cullen just didn't know. Again." bothers me as a reason. Even if it's consistent with his DA2 character.
Have you done his personal lyrium quest yet? If not, you have a few cutscenes coming yet. If you have, there's one more romance-specific cutscene you should get at some point (the gift scene), so keep talking to him. Otherwise, you'll have to make do with the radiant kissing breaks (you can repeat that as many times as you want, yeah) until you finish both Here Lies the Abyss and Wicked Eyes and Wicked Hearts. The next stage of the relationship (where you "lock in" with Cullen for good) will only progress after these two quests are complete.
There's some nice romance stuff to look up to yet, but I wouldn't rush the Orlesian ball just to get to it, because you can exaust it pretty quickly and be left with nothing for the final leg of the game. You do better pacing yourself with the radiant kiss now and getting his romance content naturally as it comes, than rushing through everything and having only the radiant kiss left to carry you over to the end.
Thank you, I have started the lyrium quest and did the first part, so now I have the second part to do, still need the power to unlock the area where it takes place. I will have to keep talking to him then to get that gift scene!
Anyway, for me, it's not the degree of oblivious, it's the fact that "Cullen just didn't know. Again." bothers me as a reason. Even if it's consistent with his DA2 character.
Yeah, I don't buy the "he didn't know" angle either. I will bend over backwards trying to reason how he did know about it and just had his hands too tied by protocol, politics etc to magically fix up all the problems with the Order on his own, because I refuse to accept another "he didn't know" handwave. We don't have to accept that a poorly implemented game mechanic be brushed aside with a quick "Cullen is an idiot" excuse.
In any case, I think the scenario Hawke paints makes things even more interesting for those of us who shipped her with Cullen for a while, or at least had headcanons where they were good friends. The more respect you picture Cullen having for Hawke at the time she's appointed Viscount, the more his disgust with the Order's inner machinations, after watching his own men run her out of office, makes sense. I don't know, at least I'm personally clinging to Hawke's strategic temporary retreat because of the Templars influenced by the Red Lyrium being a major factor in Cullen's decision to quit, because it makes a whole lot more sense than the vague non-reasons he gives in game. In that sense, Hawke dropping that line helped answer more questions than open new ones for me.
I have started the lyrium quest and did the first part, so now I have the second part to do, still need the power to unlock the area where it takes place.
You mean the mage-side Samson quest? That's not the one I meant, it was his personal lyrium quest that all players get. That one happens all in Skyhold, and involves Cassandra. If you haven't seen that one yet, then you have even more content to look forward to than you know. 
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