What I find odd is that people complained that she was too goody-goody, but when they toughened her up people were outraged lol.
My only thing with her in DAO was she was too bubbly for me, especially since she was supposed to be slightly older than Alistair and Morrigan, I think. Her romance was great, though; nothing like getting a bard flustered and tangled in her own words 
That and they don't quite get the idea of people changing over time. No one stays the same, no matter how they seem on the outside. I love this new Lel, though I try to unharden her some, I don't want Divine Blood-running-in-the-Chantry, thanks
Yep that is exactly the same thing I do...the first time I ended up with Vivienne and she actually isn't the worst imo. The hardened Leliana seems to be the worst Divine imo.
Cullen is absolutely fried gold in that scene, he's so comical!
Don't forget Josie who just stares and Cass' "WAHHAHAHAHAHA!" reaction to when she steps in there.
That and they don't quite get the idea of people changing over time. No one stays the same, no matter how they seem on the outside. I love this new Lel, though I try to unharden her some, I don't want Divine Blood-running-in-the-Chantry, thanks
Agreed! I have heard folks say they don't like Alistair in DAI cause he is not the same, cause he is not light hearted enough and I am like "But...he is undergoing the calling!!! The whole time he is talking to you, he has gross, nasty little darkspawn music thrumming in his head!!!! AND, think how disillusioned he is with the organization that he was always proud to be part of! AND (if romanced), his woman is off maker knows where!!! And he is hiding in a stinky cave, hunted by his brothers. AND, he is in his 30's!! I am not the same firefly I was at 20! No one is!!!"
Breathe in...breath out...
OK, this was a bit of a rant, but I personally loved both Leliana and Alistair in the new game. I was so glad they seemed a bit older and harder and more realistic. Alistair is still funny, but it is more sarcastic. But he still hides his troubles behind humor, a deeply imbedded personality trait. Leliana is still a smart rogue, but she is having a hard-core crisis of faith when we meet her again. I was SOOOO glad they gave these characters depth! I liked them a bit dark!
Course to be fair...I always write them a bit dark, so I may be biased... 
What I find odd is that people complained that she was too goody-goody, but when they toughened her up people were outraged lol.
I think sometimes when people complain about a character's personality traits it's because they're taking that character at face value rather than analyzing why they are the way they are. Some of the characters I thought I didn't like in a first PT became some of my favorite when I really tried to understand their backgrounds & motives.
I've seen the recording of that, and Cullen's reaction was surprising (in an amusing way)
Iron Bull: Actually, he's the one who's been taking it.
Cullen: *snicker*
I love how Cullen's sense of humor pops up more often in DA: I under that hard shell of his.
Although I liked who she was in Origins, I love the way her character arc has progressed throughout the games so far. She has some of the most depth of all the characters in the series. And I like that she hasn't gotten her peaceful ending yet even with her putting up a wall between her true feelings, those of us who played DAO can sometimes find a little shimmer of the old Leliana peeking through. It's amazing.
HOW DO YOU PEOPLE DEAL WITH RUNNING OUT OF LIKES??? I...I...
LIKE!
My only thing with her in DAO was she was too bubbly for me, especially since she was supposed to be slightly older than Alistair and Morrigan, I think. Her romance was great, though; nothing like getting a bard flustered and tangled in her own words
I love Lel's romance it is so sweet...yet Morrigan always ends up pulling my Warden into her bed at the end...one thing I know is that Leli is a renown ninjamancer.
Yep that is exactly the same thing I do...the first time I ended up with Vivienne and she actually isn't the worst imo. An unhardened Leliana seems to be the worst Divine imo.
Why do you say the unhardened Lel is the worst? I would have said the hardened one was worst of the lot, and Viv second worst (but that's because I interpret her actions as moving the south toward a Tevinter system).
I wish he hadn't waited until she'd got up the steps and bowed though. I wanted him to literally run over to her the minute he saw her walking into the courtyard, lol.
I think that would have worked with someone more impulsive like Alistair, but not with Cullen. I see his initial hesitation there as him trying really hard to contain himself, thinking "don't do it don't do it don't doooooo iiiiiit" until she's standing right in front of him, and suddenly bowing is not enough, and he just has to tackle her right there, screw everything and everyone else. It's a mirror of the first kiss scene - both very passionate displays of affection, but with that touch of typical shyness and reservation tempered with a sudden burst of emotion of his.
HOW DO YOU PEOPLE DEAL WITH RUNNING OUT OF LIKES??? I...I...
LIKE!
hahahaha I've also run out of likes. ITS MADNESS.
That snicker feels like "This is so terrible I really shouldn't laugh...But it's too funny not to..."I've seen the recording of that, and Cullen's reaction was surprising (in an amusing way)
Iron Bull: Actually, he's the one who's been taking it.
Cullen: *snicker*
I love how Cullen's sense of humor pops up more often in DA: I under that hard shell of his.
I think that would have worked with someone more impulsive like Alistair, but not with Cullen. I see his initial hesitation there as him trying really hard to contain himself, thinking "don't do it don't do it don't doooooo iiiiiit" until she's standing right in front of him, and suddenly bowing is not enough, and he just has to tackle her right there, screw everything and everyone else. It's a mirror of the first kiss scene - both very passionate displays of affection, but with that touch of typical shyness and reservation tempered with a sudden burst of emotion of his.
My interpretation? Cullen is Alistair on a chill pill.
I think what upsets some people is just how scary Leliana can become if you don't play her just right. I know my first Quizzie was sort of backing out of the tower with her hands raised begging Leli not to kill her by the end, Leli got that scary. If your memory is of the sweet bubbly girl you thought Leli was/is, then it's a bit frightening.
If you really internalize and analyze what it means when people say "Left Hand of the Divine," then it makes sense while simply being sad.
Why do you say the unhardened Lel is the worst? I would have said the hardened one was worst of the lot, and Viv second worst (but that's because I interpret her actions as moving the south toward a Tevinter system).
GAHAHAHAHAHAH THAT UN IS NOT MEANT TO BE THERE...MY BAD! An unhardened Lel is the best imo and hardened Lel is the worst, lol!
Agreed! I have heard folks say they don't like Alistair in DAI cause he is not the same, cause he is not light hearted enough and I am like "But...he is undergoing the calling!!! The whole time he is talking to you, he has gross, nasty little darkspawn music thrumming in his head!!!! AND, think how disillusioned he is with the organization that he was always proud to be part of! AND (if romanced), his woman is off maker knows where!!! And he is hiding in a stinky cave, hunted by his brothers. AND, he is in his 30's!! I am not the same firefly I was at 20! No one is!!!"
Breathe in...breath out...
OK, this was a bit of a rant, but I personally loved both Leliana and Alistair in the new game. I was so glad they seemed a bit older and harder and more realistic. Alistair is still funny, but it is more sarcastic. But he still hides his troubles behind humor, a deeply imbedded personality trait. Leliana is still a smart rogue, but she is having a hard-core crisis of faith when we meet her again. I was SOOOO glad they gave these characters depth! I liked them a bit dark!
Course to be fair...I always write them a bit dark, so I may be biased...
I love them too, but we actually see three Alistairs, Alistair with Anora, King Alistair, and Warden Alistair. King Alistair with Anora struck me as a bit stuffy and humorless, and while I like seeing him matured, it makes me feel like marrying him to Anora killed his best character trait. Not that we get that much of a glimpse of him. My favorite, truthfully, was King Alistair by himself, mature, but still that spark of humor in spite of mages gone wild and presumably the Calling affecting him. I'm surprised people complain about Warden Alistair, he seems closest to the DAO Alistair of any of them, especially when you think about some of his less light-hearted moments in DAO, just handling things with more maturity.
Agreed! I have heard folks say they don't like Alistair in DAI cause he is not the same, cause he is not light hearted enough and I am like "But...he is undergoing the calling!!! The whole time he is talking to you, he has gross, nasty little darkspawn music thrumming in his head!!!! AND, think how disillusioned he is with the organization that he was always proud to be part of! AND (if romanced), his woman is off maker knows where!!! And he is hiding in a stinky cave, hunted by his brothers. AND, he is in his 30's!! I am not the same firefly I was at 20! No one is!!!"
Breathe in...breath out...
OK, this was a bit of a rant, but I personally loved both Leliana and Alistair in the new game. I was so glad they seemed a bit older and harder and more realistic. Alistair is still funny, but it is more sarcastic. But he still hides his troubles behind humor, a deeply imbedded personality trait. Leliana is still a smart rogue, but she is having a hard-core crisis of faith when we meet her again. I was SOOOO glad they gave these characters depth! I liked them a bit dark!
Course to be fair...I always write them a bit dark, so I may be biased...
I loved how Alistair was in DAI, he was still highly amusing when in his sarcastic mode but he was also incredibly sweet when talking about my Warden and I was happy to hear that they are both still very much in love after all these years. I adored how softly and sadly he spoke when he talked about where she was. It was also good to learn that she was off looking for a cure to literally save both their lives and that he was going to join her in her search after the Abyssal/Warden quest was done.
All the returning characters seemed hardened/battle weary in DAI, and rightly so!
I would say that unhardened Lel is the worst Divine not because of what she does but because of how radical she winds up being. All the things she does need to be done, yes, but you can't enforce that kind of radical change on society without some really nasty repercussions. Sure, Lel may be able to convince people to work together the same way you can make Gaspard, Celene and Briala work together, but everyone knows that the peace is temporary at best because they really don't want to do what they're doing. Same with unhardened Lel. It's only a matter of time before all kinds of social chaos and hell break loose. Hardened Lel has the same problems, but she at least has their fear.
I think what upsets some people is just how scary Leliana can become if you don't play her just right. I know my first Quizzie was sort of backing out of the tower with her hands raised begging Leli not to kill her by the end, Leli got that scary. If your memory is of the sweet bubbly girl you thought Leli was/is, then it's a bit frightening.
If you really internalize and analyze what it means when people say "Left Hand of the Divine," then it makes sense while simply being sad.
Yeah, and you also get a lot of comments/dialogue from other NPCs and companions on how scary Leliana is and how afraid they are that she's going to shiv them.
GAHAHAHAHAHAH THAT UN IS NOT MEANT TO BE THERE...MY BAD! An unhardened Lel is the best imo and hardened Lel is the worst, lol!
I was wondering... wow, Zarro likes bloody Divine Lel, go figure... 
hahahaha I've also run out of likes. ITS MADNESS.
It...it truly is...
I think what upsets some people is just how scary Leliana can become if you don't play her just right. I know my first Quizzie was sort of backing out of the tower with her hands raised begging Leli not to kill her by the end, Leli got that scary. If your memory is of the sweet bubbly girl you thought Leli was/is, then it's a bit frightening.
If you really internalize and analyze what it means when people say "Left Hand of the Divine," then it makes sense while simply being sad.
Oh yes Leli can be downright Freddy Kruger if you aren't careful with her...
One must always explore each character or one will never truly understand the genius that character has.
I like the IDEA of Divine Leliana, but I don't think it has much chance of working out well long-term.
I loved how Alistair was in DAI, he was still highly amusing when in his sarcastic mode but he was also incredibly sweet when talking about my Warden and I was happy to hear that they are both still very much in love after all these years. I adored how softly and sadly he spoke when he talked about where she was. It was also good to learn that she was off looking for a cure to literally save both their lives and that he was going to join her in her search after the Abyssal/Warden quest was done.
All the returning characters seemed hardened/battle weary in DAI, and rightly so!
What does he say exactly? Do you remember or have a link...those of us who had our Warden be his Queen or Mistress heard nothing regarding their relationship...
Yeah, and you also get a lot of comments/dialogue from other NPCs and companions on how scary Leliana is and how afraid they are that she's going to shiv them.
Ahem...Harding...
XD I may have my moments, but I never would go that far...or at least like the outcome! 
In regards to Leliana..I was the same way as many at first. i was like "Damn...she's lost it." Especially the chantry scene. Gruseome. It felt out of character.
But then I thought about it. When you meet her in DAO, she REALLY believes the maker is speaking to her. She thinks she is on some divine quest. And they defeat the archdemon. And she become the left-hand of the divine. In her mind, it has to be a sort of consolation. She was right. She WAS chosen.
Then the divine gets killed in a horrible way. And she is disillusioned with the Maker and his plan. And then she realizes that the Divine, the woman who KNEW about her dark past (remember, she was the sister that took Leiliana in in Lothering) had basically used her connections and skills to destroy her enemies. And Leliana is holding on to that because it is what she knows how to do best. And all that "the maker is willing this" crap goes out the window.
So, i think that is why you have to do it just right to unharden her. Because she is done with all of it. Her ideals have been shattered, the people she loved and trusted basically used her, and she is messed up about all of it. I think her anger is very understandable.
I think that would have worked with someone more impulsive like Alistair, but not with Cullen. I see his initial hesitation there as him trying really hard to contain himself, thinking "don't do it don't do it don't doooooo iiiiiit" until she's standing right in front of him, and suddenly bowing is not enough, and he just has to tackle her right there, screw everything and everyone else. It's a mirror of the first kiss scene - both very passionate displays of affection, but with that touch of typical shyness and reservation tempered with a sudden burst of emotion of his.
See, the fact that he is usually so reserved is why I wanted to see him just let go of the professionalism and run to her.
During that prayer scene he was genuinely scared of losing her to the point where in some of the dialogue options his response sounds like he's close to tears, so upon seeing that she survived as she entered the courtyard I would've liked to see him be so overwhelmed that he'd go to her without thinking or caring that everyone was around *cue emotional hug/etc*
Truth be told, I'm still salty that he wasn't made use of in the final battle. You'd have thought he'd have gone with the Inquisitor for the final confrontation, or been used on the ground to help fight off demons or whatever.
What does he say exactly? Do you remember or have a link...those of us who had our Warden be his Queen or Mistress heard nothing regarding their relationship...
Ahem...Harding...
XD I may have my moments, but I never would go that far...or at least like the outcome!
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