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[frylock23]

I will admit that I thought that was a bit strange, too. Here you just fell off the battlements with the lyrium dragon after you, people saw you, you disappeared, were possibly presumed dead. I expected something afterward to remark on that.. An "Maker, I thought we'd lost you!" when you went to talk to him after that. But we got nothing. I wasn't as worried about the big emotional thing of losing Hawke/Stroud because the Quizzie never really knew them, not like Varric did. But the Quizzie and Cullen were in a romance, and everyone reacts to being in the Fade physically ... except your romance?!

[Char]

Cullen NO!
 
Please don't... please just don't. You know how it goes for you, others might not want same things... Please Cullen no...

I'm pretty sure the idea of torture is that people aren't supposed to want it

I chose that option because, well, he's the best qualified person to find a solution in this instance, and it's something he's willing to put himself through and understands very intimately.

Still a very dark choice, mind.

[Hellion Rex]

To be fair, David Gaider also acknowledged that their relationship has to potential to be unhealthy, but that the players only see a glimpse of part of it. So most of it is headcanon.

There is apparently a whole thread on this topic, however, so if folks want to partake more they may.

Yeah, let's please not bring that argument in here. I have spent the past 3 days fighting that battle and I'm reallllllllly tired of it.

[LolaLei]

I will admit that I thought that was a bit strange, too. Here you just fell off the battlements with the lyrium dragon after you, people saw you, you disappeared, were possibly presumed dead. I expected something afterward to remark on that.. An "Maker, I thought we'd lost you!" when you went to talk to him after that. But we got nothing. I wasn't as worried about the big emotional thing of losing Hawke/Stroud because the Quizzie never really knew them, not like Varric did. But the Quizzie and Cullen were in a romance, and everyone reacts to being in the Fade physically ... except your romance?!

 

That was really annoying! I mean, if you were romancing one of the companions that came with you then obviously they're not gonna be worried because you were in it together, but if they didn't go in with you or you're dating Cullen/Josie then something should've been said... especially with Cullen since he was at the battle, so he probably saw you all tumble into the Abyss.

 

There should've been a cutscene of him seeing everyone fall in or something.

[frylock23]

Another way to look at Dorian and IB is that not everything in a game is going to be rosey and wonderful. Why should we expect it to be? Even if the relationship IS unhealthy and is written with that intent, well, not every relationship in life is that way, either. If the two characters involved hook up and would create an unhealthy dynamic, then that's what would happen and you shouldn't expect the writers to bend the reality of who the characters are just to create a happily ever after that really wouldn't be just so you can be satisfied. It's unrealistic and shouldn't be expected. Some of the best literature is created around unhealthy relationships.

[R2s Muse]

Another way to look at Dorian and IB is that not everything in a game is going to be rosey and wonderful. Why should we expect it to be? Even if the relationship IS unhealthy and is written with that intent, well, not every relationship in life is that way, either. If the two characters involved hook up and would create an unhealthy dynamic, then that's what would happen and you shouldn't expect the writers to bend the reality of who the characters are just to create a happily ever after that really wouldn't be just so you can be satisfied. It's unrealistic and shouldn't be expected. Some of the best literature is created around unhealthy relationships.

This was exactly DG's point on his tumblr that was posted on a previous page. 

 

I encourage folks who want to discuss further to read that and seek out the thread on this topic. 

[Char]

*shrugs* what happens between two consenting adults is their own business, as far as I'm concerned. Doesnt matter if their thing is to dress up as zebras and throw grapefruit at each other, it's very hard for someone on the outside to see to the core of a relationship.

[Tishina]

To be fair, David Gaider also acknowledged that their relationship has to potential to be unhealthy, but that the players only see a glimpse of part of it. So most of it is headcanon.

 

There is apparently a whole thread on this topic, however, so if folks want to partake more they may. 

Yes, ma'am! Because no matter how carefully we try to phrase things as personal opinion or reaction, it has the possibility of turning contentious quickly when someone overlooks that qualification.

[LolaLei]

Another way to look at Dorian and IB is that not everything in a game is going to be rosey and wonderful. Why should we expect it to be? Even if the relationship IS unhealthy and is written with that intent, well, not every relationship in life is that way, either. If the two characters involved hook up and would create an unhealthy dynamic, then that's what would happen and you shouldn't expect the writers to bend the reality of who the characters are just to create a happily ever after that really wouldn't be just so you can be satisfied. It's unrealistic and shouldn't be expected. Some of the best literature is created around unhealthy relationships.

 

Plus, what works for some couples doesn't work for others. Hell, I've known swinger couples that are completely comfortable sharing their partner with other people, yet many other couples wouldn't want a lifestyle like that. Different folks, different strokes.

[Tielis]

*shrugs* what happens between two consenting adults is their own business, as far as I'm concerned. Doesnt matter if their thing is to dress up as zebras and throw grapefruit at each other, it's very hard for someone on the outside to see to the core of a relationship.

 

Fanart please!  

[Char]

That was really annoying! I mean, if you were romancing one of the companions that came with you then obviously they're not gonna be worried because you were in it together, but if they didn't go in with you or you're dating Cullen/Josie then something should've been said... especially with Cullen since he was at the battle, so he probably saw you all tumble into the Abyss.
 
There should've been a cutscene of him seeing everyone fall in or something.

We got all these lovely conversations where we got to ask people if THEY were OK, but I was very much "hello? Inquisitor facing all her nightmares here whilst having to make difficult decisions and try to save lives. What about ME?"

And then I remembered that it was pretty much how every day went for poor Inquisadora

[Arlee]

That was really annoying! I mean, if you were romancing one of the companions that came with you then obviously they're not gonna be worried because you were in it together, but if they didn't go in with you or you're dating Cullen/Josie then something should've been said... especially with Cullen since he was at the battle, so he probably saw you all tumble into the Abyss.

 

There should've been a cutscene of him seeing everyone fall in or something.

 

And that's part of why I like doing Wicked Hearts and the Adamant. Having the whole committing to the relationship there feels more fitting because it totally comes of as Cullen thought she had died and realized exactly how important she was. It's like the subtext there.

 

On the otherhand, I am a good ways through my second playthrough doi8ng the Solas romance this time. Just finished the whole Wicked Hearts thing, let Celene die and put Gespard in power this time (which I really don't like that choice, I might go back and change it). Anywho, what I was going to say was I have been really surprised by how passionate Solas seems to be. I was really not expecting that at all. It's pretty cool

[Char]

Plus, what works for some couples doesn't work for others. Hell, I've known swinger couples that are completely comfortable sharing their partner with other people, yet many other couples wouldn't want a lifestyle like that. Different folks, different strokes.

Quite literally, in many cases

[OfficerDonNZ]

Here's what King Alistair has to say about Lyirum addction in my fic I'm waiting hear back from my beta so you'll have to live with the crappy spelling and grammar in the meantime. It's a bit out of context as well.

 

Alistair grinned “Well technically I never became a templar as I never took my finial vows. The whole Grey Warden thing put paid to that. Still being able to suppress darkspawn mages when we encountered them saved our lives more than once during the blight.”

 

Kari looked stunned “Hang on, if you never took your final vows and never took lyrium how can you use a templars ablates, your majesty?”

 

The king looked sombre “Turns out a templar doesn’t need lyrium to use his or her abilities. The lyrim just makes the effects stronger though I’ve often wondered if it even dose that.” He gave both mages a knowing look “I’m sure you can see the implications.”

 

Kari found herself trying to suppress a shiver and failing badly, even Dorian looked shocked. “I can.” The young woman said softly “The Chantry knowingly gave it’s templars an additive substance.” Her face showed how disgusted she was with that.

 

“And mages.” Alistair added “Think about it. Who controls the lyrium trade with the dwarfs? The Chnatry. You mages don’t really need lyrium to cast magic but I know from expernace during the blight having lyrim potions for the mages that we had with us was a good thing as they could cast for longer when we were in prolonged battles.”

 

“That’s true.” Dorian said “And lyrium is often used in some of the more complex spells and rituals.” The mage from trivinter wasn’t liking the implications any more than his southern counterpart was.

 

“Well it’s not as if the world wasn’t messed up enough already.” Kari said letting out a sigh. “Maker’s breath this is going to heat things up back at Haven.” She muttered.

[TheLastArchivist]

The problem is that a part of the fanbase mistakes unhealthy with abusive. An abusive relationship is (certainly) unhealthy, but the reverse is false.

 

A common example of unhealthy, non-abusive relationship: you meet an attractive guy in a club and both of you end up in bed. As you spend more time with each other, you realise he can't give you anything more, just raw sex. You still remain in the relationship and give in to when he wants you, even knowing he can't engage in a romance with you. 

When you tell him you're unhappy with this arrangement, he bluntly tells you he can't love you, but will always be around for the sex when you want it. If you continue in that relationship, trying to compensate lack of love with more sex, you're in a unhealthy relationship. 

 

I think that's what DG meant. I may be wrong.

[frylock23]

That's my point. I think a lot of the people who are objecting are filling in the pieces at least in part with their own expectations and desires, not trying to see it from the expectations and desires of the characters.

 

Since I don't know who Iron Bull and Dorian are really supposed to be beyond what little I can glean from the game, they hook up and that's that. On the outside at least, it seems to be working for the time being. It's not the place of the Quizzie to tell them no.

[LolaLei]

We got all these lovely conversations where we got to ask people if THEY were OK, but I was very much "hello? Inquisitor facing all her nightmares here whilst having to make difficult decisions and try to save lives. What about ME?"

And then I remembered that it was pretty much how every day went for poor Inquisadora

 

And when they do ask you how you feel nothing particularly interesting has happened to have a good response, LOL! 

[Annarl]

I don't think it helps that a lot of people misunderstand the ins and outs (hur hur) of BDSM, it's not all/always about whips and chains or even hurting each other in the bedroom, so I think a lot of people are assuming Bull beats seven shades of sh*t out of Dorian with a whip or Maker knows what, lol. Plus, if Dorian didn't wanna shag/be in a relationship with Bull then he wouldn't, we all know how stubborn Dorian can be when he doesn't want to do something!

 

Both of them are big softies really, so I'm sure their relationship is as loving as the pair of them are if romancing the Inquisitor, we just don't get to see that.

 

... Can't say I'm pleased that they shagged on the war table though, I wanted my Inquisitor and Cullen to be the first to do it!     

I think this is a big source of the problem.  A BDSM relationship is not about abuse.  Can one be abusive? Of course, just as a vanilla relationship can be.  

A lot of BDSM relationships have nothing to do with pain since that is another type of fetish. 

 

I have done a lot of research into this lifestyle for several writing projects I have done.  There is a lot of variation in this type of relationship and I will leave it there since this is a vanilla thread. lol 

[Tishina]

My husband finished his game last night. He chose a female elf and romanced Solas. I will say this: I am so glad I chose to romance Cullen (repeatedly) because I felt Solas romance was damn depressing. So much so I had to replay cut scenes from my Inquisitor’s and Cullen romance just to “wash” the depression out of my system.
 
Putting that aside…
 
Probably my biggest disappointment with Cullen’s Romance is the aftermath of Adamant. Going to put this in spoilers just to be safe.
 

Spoiler

In DA2 Hawke loses his/her mother which promoted a scene depending on who you romanced to come and comfort you.

In DAI after your tumble out of The Fade and then returning to Skyhold, I would have thought a similar cut scene would have played out. Granted it’s nowhere near as heartbreaking as losing one’s parent but it’s still an emotional moment.

An example. You go to Cullen (or whomever your romance is) click on them and a cut scene plays out of your Inquisitor in your private quarters. You both talk about what happened, how you are feeling, how Cullen (or whomever your romance is) feels and of course you the get the chance to ask the big question: Do you really think I (The Inquisitor) is The Herald of Andraste?”

I for one still have many questions in regards to this and it DOES bother me that I will probably never have answers. Sure, I could leave it to my own imagination, but this is not something as simple as, guessing if Cullen is a virgin or not.

A moment like this should have been in the game. Sadly however it was overlooked.

I think they tried to implement a better system of NPCs reacting to the PC, and there are some nice moments. I kind of feel as if they ran short of time/word budget to do it properly, however. There are several times NPCs have said something that made little sense to my particular Inquisitor, or they didn't say something that I would have expected.

[LolaLei]

The problem is that a part of the fanbase mistakes unhealthy with abusive. An abusive relationship is (certainly) unhealthy, but the reverse is false.

 

A common example of unhealthy, non-abusive relationship: you meet an attractive guy in a club and both of you end up in bed. As you spend more time with each other, you realise he can't give you anything more, just raw sex. You still remain in the relationship and give in to when he wants you, even knowing he can't engage in a romance with you. 

When you tell him you're unhappy with this arrangement, he bluntly tells you he can't love you, but will always be around for the sex when you want it. If you continue in that relationship, trying to compensate lack of love with more sex, you're in a unhealthy relationship. 

 

I think that's what DG meant. I may be wrong.

 

If you think about it, any relationship has the potential to be unhealthy in so many different ways.

 

I guess what he's saying is that there's always a risk... but the priiiiiiiize.

 

Sorrynotsorry.   

[TheLastArchivist]

If you think about it, any relationship has the potential to be unhealthy in so many different ways.

 

I guess what he's saying is that there's always a risk... but the priiiiiiiize.

 

Sorrynotsorry.   

[frylock23]

Which was the unhealthy bit of THAT romance? The prize or the way poor Shep was reduced to a hooker every time she tried to just talk to Jacob in a non-business like way?

 

People can talk about how the Inquisition is a hot bed of harassment, but that was true harassment. I did feel sorry for Jacob and pretty much never talked to him after that first really awkward attempt at a convo.

[Basement Cat]

I think this is a big source of the problem.  A BDSM relationship is not about abuse.  Can one be abusive? Of course just as a vanilla relationship can be.  

A lot of BDSM relationships have nothing to do with pain since that is another type of fetish. 

 

I have done a lot of research into this lifestyle for several writing projects I have done.  There is a lot of variation in this type of relationship and I will leave it there since this is a vanilla thread. lol 

People (as in the media) focus too much on the BSM (bondage, sadism and masochism) part and forget about the D (dominance). Some people *shifty eyes* like the role play but not the props. (so much cleaning!)

[Annarl]

I will admit that I thought that was a bit strange, too. Here you just fell off the battlements with the lyrium dragon after you, people saw you, you disappeared, were possibly presumed dead. I expected something afterward to remark on that.. An "Maker, I thought we'd lost you!" when you went to talk to him after that. But we got nothing. I wasn't as worried about the big emotional thing of losing Hawke/Stroud because the Quizzie never really knew them, not like Varric did. But the Quizzie and Cullen were in a romance, and everyone reacts to being in the Fade physically ... except your romance?!

Yes that was odd since he was there and might have seen it. It seems none of the romances comment on it so it appears to overlooked for all of them.

[LolaLei]

People (as in the media) focus too much on the BSM (bondage, sadism and masochism) part and forget about the D (dominance). Some people *shifty eyes* like the role play but not the props. (so much cleaning!)

 

Amen!