138964 réponses à ce sujet

[CuriousArtemis]

Hey, power of creation could simply = extremely powerful magic

 
What could be the pinnacle of magical ability but the ability to create life?

Then you're just questioning what a god is.

[alwayshungry]

[quote name="R2s Muse" post="18321328" timestamp="1420819535"]Do we spoiler this stuff anymore...? anyhoo... 
 
Do we really still need spoilers? It's been almost two months.

Well, there are people that got the game as a Christmas gift and others that don't have a lot of free time.

[Char]

Technically the game came out last year

[Laurelinde]

But you know in that case... 

 

Spoiler

wouldn't the wolf person have to be the Inquisitor? Solas may not even have been at the Cory fight. Or is there a way to interpret the wolf-life figure as the Inquisitor...?

 

Spoiler

Isn't one of the earlier frescos showing the Inquisition, as wolves, 'howling' against Corypheus?  So maybe he sort of sees people he associates/identifies with/respects as wolves or wolf-like because of his own association with wolves?

[Hellion Rex]

Then you're just questioning what a god is.

Pretty much. One thing that I think they are addressing is "what is a god", and what are the standards and prerequisites that one must meet to be considered one. In the case of the elves, extremely powerful mages capable of creation.

 

I think the different sets of gods are considered gods through different means, i.e. powerful mages, spirits, etc.

[CuriousArtemis]

Pretty much. One thing that I think they are addressing is "what is a god", and what are the standards and prerequisites that one must meet to be considered one. In the case of the elves, extremely powerful mages capable of creation.
 
I think the different sets of gods are considered gods through different means, i.e. powerful mages, spirits, etc.

And I think it's very suspect that the one god they're leaving mysterious and god-like is the Yahweh-like Maker, which ticks me off, so I try to continue to refer to the elven gods as gods.

[CuriousArtemis]

I also thinks it's speculation to refer to the elven gods as "just powerful mages" because we have absolutely no clue as to their origins.

[R2s Muse]

  
Oh I see. I do prefer to think of them as gods since that's what the elves believe and I usually play elves. They have powers of creation after all. Plus I do not think we can say anything definite at this time.

I think it depends a bit here by what you mean by creation. DG has been specific that the elves do not consider the elven pantheon to be creators. The world already existed when Elgar'non and Mythal came along. 

[R2s Muse]

I also thinks it's speculation to refer to the elven gods as "just powerful mages" because we have absolutely no clue as to their origins.

FWIW, the ingame character notes that have been found explaining that last scene say explicitly that both Fen'Harel and Mythal are elven gods. 
 

Spoiler

This is Flemeth from the previous two games. In this game, Flemeth's story comes to a head-- she knew that Solas would summon her, and that he would need to steal her power to further his plans. She knew that because they are both elven gods... yet Solas has slept for a thousand years and his power dwindled, while she was killed long ago and a spark escaped from her into the body she now holds. She has nurtured that spark, and knew that Solas would need it. He was once her oldest friend, but she knows that in his drive to restore the elven people he will kill anyone-- even her. She intends to let him have the power, so long as she can pass the essence of her god-hood onto Morrigan, a gift Flemeth had always planned for her daughter yet one Morrigan misunderstood as hostile possession.

[Hellion Rex]

I also thinks it's speculation to refer to the elven gods as "just powerful mages" because we have absolutely no clue as to their origins.

 

I have never made claims otherwise. Of course it's all just speculation based upon the data we have at the present time.

 

 

And for the record, never once have I said that being a powerful mage negates their godly status.

[Zarro-Morningstar]

I also thinks it's speculation to refer to the elven gods as "just powerful mages" because we have absolutely no clue as to their origins.

I still am on the side of elven gods being elven gods. I am going to need more evidence until I make the leap to them simply being powerful mages. I really hope that DA does not turn into a simple world where there is only one absolute truth as to who is a god and who isn't. There is no need to prove one deity better than the other or more divine than the others, if that is where Bioware goes...then I would honestly prefer them to simply leave the whole idea alone and let us wonder; rather than telling us.

 

I think it depends a bit here by what you mean by creation. DG has been specific that the elves do not consider the elven pantheon to be creators. The world already existed when Elgar'non and Mythal came along. 

Kind of awkward though since they are referred to as "The Creators"...

[R2s Muse]

I still am on the side of elven gods being elven gods. I am going to need more evidence until I make the leap to them simply being powerful mages. I really hope that DA does not turn into a simple world where there is only one absolute truth as to who is a god and who isn't. There is no need to prove one deity better than the other or more divine than the others, if that is where Bioware goes...then I would honestly prefer them to simply leave the whole idea alone and let us wonder; rather than telling us.

I agree, to a point. My issue is that DG has said time and again that they won't follow in the steps of DnD and have real live gods walk the earth. DG has also said that if they question faith, it would be to question "what is a god?"

So I think that's all good fodder for asking 'what is a god?' in this context.
 

Kind of awkward though since they are referred to as "The Creators"...

Yeeah, I've wondered about that. :shrug: As Solas would say, the Dalish don't really get it right very often.

[meanieweenie]

I agree, to a point. My issue is that DG has said time and again that they won't follow in the steps of DnD and have real live gods walk the earth. DG has also said that if they question faith, it would be to question "what is a god?"

So I think that's all good fodder for asking 'what is a god?' in this context.
 

If this all boils down to midichlorians again I'm gonna be pissed. 

[R2s Muse]

If this all boils down to midichlorians again I'm gonna be pissed. 

 

[Laurelinde]

If this all boils down to midichlorians again I'm gonna be pissed. 

 

Haha, that was my reaction to the whole thing with lyrium, actually!  Like lyrium:midichlorians :: magic:the force.  

[MightyZan]

But you know in that case... 

 

Spoiler

wouldn't the wolf person have to be the Inquisitor? Solas may not even have been at the Cory fight. Or is there a way to interpret the wolf-life figure as the Inquisitor...?

Spoiler

I thought it was implied that everyone was in that fight (Besides Harding who fell off).  Just not game mechanically.  I could be wrong though.  So it would be like "Ha!  I'm going to get my orb back and your going to be all dead you stu- oh, the orb is broke?  Damn.  I need to... go do something."

Heh, I could definitely be completely wrong.

[MightyZan]

Solas did say that the Creators could be a lot of other things.  I agree that I think they are going to look into what actually constitutes a god.

[Hellion Rex]

As Solas would say, the Dalish don't really get it right very often.

Dear Lord, they have no clue at all who they are worshipping.

[CuriousArtemis]

Yeeah, I've wondered about that. :shrug: As Solas would say, the Dalish don't really get it right very often.

And as many fans say, BioWare don't get their own canon right very often Lately I take what individual devs say with a grain of salt.

[R2s Muse]

Do we spoiler this stuff anymore...? anyhoo...

Do we really still need spoilers? It's been almost two months.

EDIT: Don't know why that quote messed up. I hate accessing the forum on iPad...

I think this is a good question. alwayshungry's point is true, some folks might have just got it for the holidays. I think for me, the driving factor is that it takes you fifty billion zillion years to finish a single PT. So we know there are still folks in this thread who still haven't finished the game. Or others who haven't romanced every character or made every major choice. So, I think some spoiler tags are still warranted.

Is there anyone who doesn't know about Solas...? I doubt it. That was a spoiler I know I got waaaay early on. Not the final scene part, but his identity. So hard to say. I think we can relax a bit, but not abandon spoiler tags altogether.

/end $0.02

[CuriousArtemis]

Solas did say that the Creators could be a lot of other things.  I agree that I think they are going to look into what actually constitutes a god.

Yeah but it's lame that they're doing it with the polytheistic culture instead of the monotheistic one.

[CuriousArtemis]

Dear Lord, they have no clue at all who they are worshipping.

Does anyone?

Sorry, I hate when people pick on the Dalish. They seem particularly hated on this forum and they are my favorite people.

[Laurelinde]

Spoiler

I thought it was implied that everyone was in that fight (Besides Harding who fell off).  Just not game mechanically.  I could be wrong though.  So it would be like "Ha!  I'm going to get my orb back and your going to be all dead you stu- oh, the orb is broke?  Damn.  I need to... go do something."

Heh, I could definitely be completely wrong though.

 

No I got that impression too, particularly since

Spoiler

they are all standing there, even bleeding/injured Morrigan, at the end.  I think that the whole entire party is considered to be at the final battle somewhere, and at Halamshiral for that matter (since even the companions I didn't bring talked about it afterwards like they were there.)  

 

I reckon that it makes most 'sense' if all of them travel with you most of the time, since otherwise the whole summoning horn thing wouldn't work - it would be much more difficult to change your party composition if half the people were all the way back in Skyhold and had to hike all the way out to wherever you are.  Plus then you get the added benefit of imagining that there's more bonding and party banter between everyone instead of just you and them individually.  It's all a bit of a fudge for the game mechanics though so it probably works however people want to think of it.

 

Edit: except for the Fade, where I definitely had different responses from people who went in and people who didn't.

 

Ack, top...well, this can never be reposted too many times!

 

http://greendelle.tu...iva-but-not-hot

(Nerds!  I can't work out how to only show the small version!  I blame being flustered by wet Cullen!  Oh there we go.)

[CuriousArtemis]

I think this is a good question. alwayshungry's point is true, some folks might have just got it for the holidays. I think for me, the driving factor is that it takes you fifty billion zillion years to finish a single PT. So we know there are still folks in this thread who still haven't finished the game. Or others who haven't romanced every character or made every major choice. So, I think some spoiler tags are still warranted.Is there anyone who doesn't know about Solas...? I doubt it. That was a spoiler I know I got waaaay early on. Not the final scene part, but his identity. So hard to say. I think we can relax a bit, but not abandon spoiler tags altogether./end $0.02

Yeah I knew about Solas early on, too.

Maybe romance content should be spoiler end for sure? Since this is the Cullen thread.

[R2s Muse]

Solas did say that the Creators could be a lot of other things.  I agree that I think they are going to look into what actually constitutes a god.

And as many fans say, BioWare don't get their own canon right very often Lately I take what individual devs say with a grain of salt.

You know... thinking out loud, what I quoted earlier is about "THE Creator" i.e. of the whole world.

In terms of the elven religion's view of the Maker (or lack thereof), it might be interesting to point out that the elven creation myth doesn't stem from their gods. According to Dalish understanding, Elgar'nan and Mythal, the Father and the Mother, did not create the world. They were born of the world. The world was always there, and while it doesn't indicate the presence of a single creator that made the world it also doesn't necessarily contradict it.

Maybe the elves mean/think that their gods (i.e., "The Creators") created them, the elves? But that the world was just always there? So maybe there's no actual contradiction?