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[riverbanks]

I'm really liking the pacing so far of saving Cullen's romance for after his personal quest (while still flirting when able ).  This is the exchange after he stops taking lyrium.  They still haven't started the romance.  The dialogue changes a little, and the body language is nice too:

 

Spoiler

 

 

 

 

 

Yiiiiiiiiis this is exactly the scene that cemented the lyrium arc always coming before the romance for me.

 

"I like who you are now" - instead of blurting out "so yeah I dig you let's kiss" out of nowhere, this way here Quizzie is able to first express that she cares about him in the right context, exactly when it most needs to be heard. Small steps.

 

"Even after..." - Cullen is able to express in this split-second line that he knows, he's perfectly aware she has feelings for him too, and instead of immediately shutting it down, he allows this moment to happen. The reaching out for reassurance in it is sweet, but what I love here is the open acknowledgement that there's something going on between them. It gives his "I've been thinking what I might say in this situation" line in the kiss scene some context too - he's been thinking about it because they've reached a point where they can't just pretend it's nothing anymore.

 

The little touch - Monica said this better, but this scene really bothered me when played with the romance active, because a tap on the arm is the least romantic reaction I can think of between people who regularly have sex on top of office desks - she should have hugged him, kissed him, something. But between friends who are sort of dancing around each other, starting to say things out loud but not quite there yet, this is a very close, intimate touch. It's reassuring for him, but also meaningful for her. I'm serious, Cullen. I do like who you are.

 

And then, that look he gives her. This is one of the looks I meant with "you can see him really falling in love with her" - this amazing woman, who knows his ugliest side, who's seen him vulnerable and weak, is standing here, looking him square in the eye and honest-to-Maker telling him she likes him, despite everything that he is, for everything that he is, blemishes and all, and he just... melts. He's goo. He's in love, and there's no amount of self-consciousness that can take that back.

 

This can be such a relationship defining moment when played like this, I love it.

[kalasaurus]

*throws all of my likes at ninetozero*

 

Seriously, you have the greatest interpretations and headcanons!

 

And yes, that look he gives her after she said "I'm serious" was so meaningful, particularly in the context of where their relationship is.  I love it all too.  I am going to pace it out a bit more with a little exploration, but she'll confess her feelings soon (before the Winter Palace!).  It's getting harder for them dance around it

[riverbanks]

I mean, don't get me wrong, I'd rather they did what they did than have us tell him we can think of a few services for him to perform (*shakes fist at Hawke*),

 

Forever crying a thousand rivers for all the wasted potential in that romance, tbh. The game not only forces the player to be disrespectful and demeaning towards Sebastian's vows, and to continue sexually harassing him even after you're married, but those terrible vulgar flirts also curbstomp any attempt of yours at roleplaying an asexual or demisexual Hawke, or even a sexual one who's still just fine and content with the chaste marriage as it is because she loves Sebastian that much. Nothing can shake my love for this pairing, but damn if I don't have to mute out every single flirt of Hawke's and substitute them for something more respectful my Hawke would actually say to the man she's falling in love with.

[Char]

Forever crying a thousand rivers for all the wasted potential in that romance, tbh. The game not only forces the player to be disrespectful and demeaning towards Sebastian's vows, and to continue sexually harassing him even after you're married, but those terrible vulgar flirts also curbstomp any attempt of yours at roleplaying an asexual or demisexual Hawke, or even a sexual one who's still just fine and content with the chaste marriage as it is because she loves Sebastian that much. Nothing can shake my love for this pairing, but damn if I don't have to mute out every single flirt of Hawke's and substitute them for something more respectful my Hawke would actually say to the man she's falling in love with.

My canon Hawke kept running circles around Sebastian. Snarky Hawke lady was firmly in a relationship with Fenris but was very intrigued by Sebastian's past and highly, highly amused that he was so thrown by her flirting attempts that she was crude on purpose to fluster him. They were otherwise good friends, but every character has to have a few faults and my canon Hawke had an irritatingly persistent way of needling people out of their comfort zone every so often just to see what would happen. She had a good heart, but it was very very tarnished

[Tishina]

Sorry for quoting myself, but I actually found the answer in a post about the Wicked Hearts mission and possible ways to play through it and consequences, etc. Posting link here In case anyone is interested..the poster went into MAJOR (bordering on insane) detail about the quest.

 

http://forum.bioware...s-ending-guide/

I just copied that for later reference, thanks!

[Tishina]

Agree with all these points. Also... let's take a look for a moment at BW's marketing strategies once they learned about a thing called "Cullenites." 

 

 

Ain't no way they'll want to cover up that mug when it has such built in insta-appeal. 

 

This is all beside my own personal theory that they finally wised up and realized that the helmet is silly, makes no sense given what lions are associated with in Thedas, and overall, is silly.

Or the helm was never intended to be included and was meant to keep his fans busy debating about the significance while they worked out his final appearance?

[Tishina]

*snip*

This can be such a relationship defining moment when played like this, I love it.

I really like your interpretation, and will probably go that route on a second PT. Cullen seems to call for that sort of slow romance. However, my mage is romancing him first, and I'll probably trigger the romance before Perseverance with her because I also like the idea that he needed to have the connection of a beginning relationship to admit to a mage what he'd been through, and I like the extra line on the battlements when he confesses how he might have felt about her before. And since I'm playing a Dalish mage and he'd be aware she really doesn't know what goes on in circles, just rumors, it makes sense to me that way. I think the fact she clearly stays interested in him after discovering his problems and the reasons he fears mages creates at least as much of an emotional revelation for him. She hasn't been scared off by what she saw or heard; she still trusts and likes him.

 

So, I want to experience it both ways.

[Panda]

It's not personal preference, not for me at least, he is shown doing a lot of expressions during even the battle scenes, the body animation in DA is very limited and stiff.  For instance, without the facial animation the whole sequence in Haven would look emotionless, you would end up looking at unmoving helmet a lot.  it's a matter of cinematography. If the helmet had a different construct, it would be a different story altogether.

 

I think they could realistically implement it only in the run toward the elven temple, where he just fights along side with you, but at that point, why bother?

 

Another point to conciser is that on overall the implementations of the helmets as a whole in the game, the way they work and appear oh your characters, is not always stellar.

 

Well I wonder why they then animated it in the first place and put it in everywhere o.O That should be something they would have realised earlier. Personally I'm quite sad that it's gone.

[Monica21]

Or the helm was never intended to be included and was meant to keep his fans busy debating about the significance while they worked out his final appearance?

 

Since they took the trouble to create the shadows on his eyelids during Haven, I'd say it was intended to be there but they decided to cut it for whatever reason. Personally, I thought it was kind of cool.

[Tishina]

Since they took the trouble to create the shadows on his eyelids during Haven, I'd say it was intended to be there but they decided to cut it for whatever reason. Personally, I thought it was kind of cool.

I know, I was just making a joke about them trolling us. I had mixed feelings about the helm myself, so I don't have much opinion on them cutting it.

[Monica21]

I know, I was just making a joke about them trolling us. I had mixed feelings about the helm myself, so I don't have much opinion on them cutting it.

 

Ooohh, sorry.

[LolaLei]

SO someone posted this over in the Solas thread from tumblr. More cut lines found by Danaduchy. Something after Champions of the Just it seems...? 

 
http://danaduchy.tum...iggered-in-game

  
Wow. That sounds so interesting. Now I'm curious exactly what that unusual behavior is that Solas mentions. o_o

 

Ooooh! I wonder what happened to the Inquisitor that was gonna make him/her behave strangely? I wonder if maybe they cut it because they wanna use it for future DLC/expansion... I mean, at Adamant that spirit does touch the Inquisitor making him/her spazz out a bit, perhaps it's actually going to become a thing?

[riverbanks]

I really like your interpretation, and will probably go that route on a second PT. Cullen seems to call for that sort of slow romance. However, my mage is romancing him first, and I'll probably trigger the romance before Perseverance with her because I also like the idea that he needed to have the connection of a beginning relationship to admit to a mage what he'd been through (...) I think the fact she clearly stays interested in him after discovering his problems and the reasons he fears mages creates at least as much of an emotional revelation for him. She hasn't been scared off by what she saw or heard; she still trusts and likes him.

 

Yeah, you can pretty much assume that whenever I talk or headcanon about the romance progression, what feels better paced or falls more into place here or there, that I'm primarily talking about a non-mage. As you brought up there, the IQ being a mage changes the whole tone and dynamic of the relationship, and since I don't like that dynamic myself and don't work from that premise, most of my interpretations will be pretty off and probably fail to account for something important under that scenario. I can see that Perseverance may feel oddly placed before the romance for a mage, but yeah, I admittedly never even take any of that into consideration when I'm interpreting how the relationship develops.

 

Other people who are pros at interpreting the mage romance like Seph can probably layout the best romance progression for a mage Inquisitor a lot better, I'm just working with what I like.

 

Good luck experiencing both paths, either way! I'm still trying very hard to make myself romance Cullen again with a different Inquisitor that's not original flavor Ari or just a class-bent version of Ari only using a different weapon, but still finding it very hard to get in the mental space of allowing Cullen to go for someone other than his "canon" bae. *SMH at myself *

[riverbanks]

Ooooh! I wonder what happened to the Inquisitor that was gonna make him/her behave strangely?

 

Possibly related to that cut subplot Gaider mentioned on his tumblr? Maybe this is when, later in the story, the Inquisitor figured out something was wrong and the struggle with Envy back at Therinfall hadn't actually ended yet.

[LolaLei]

Possibly related to that cut subplot Gaider mentioned on his tumblr? Maybe this is when, later in the story, the Inquisitor figured out something was wrong and the struggle with Envy back at Therinfall hadn't actually ended yet.

 

What cut subplot was that?

[riverbanks]

What cut subplot was that?

 

The one you guys were just talking about the other day, with the Inquisitor thinking they were back at Haven and seducing Leliana, but later realizing they were still trapped in Envy's nightmare. Possibly this dialogue with Solas is the moment the IQ realises something is wrong, Solas figures out Envy is within the IQ and they need to "go back" to Therinfall, or more likely wake up from the dream.

[R2s Muse]

The one you guys were just talking about the other day, with the Inquisitor thinking they were back at Haven and seducing Leliana, but later realizing they were still trapped in Envy's nightmare. Possibly this dialogue with Solas is the moment the IQ realises something is wrong, Solas figures out Envy is within the IQ and they need to "go back" to Therinfall, or more likely wake up from the dream.

Huh, that would be interesting!

[blauwvis]

What cut subplot was that?

Fascinating to read on DG's blog that (by his estimates) about a third of what they'd originally planned was cut. I appreciate why he wouldn't want to get into the details, but sweet Andraste I would love to know..
 
 

Yeah, you can pretty much assume that whenever I talk or headcanon about the romance progression, what feels better paced or falls more into place here or there, that I'm primarily talking about a non-mage. As you brought up there, the IQ being a mage changes the whole tone and dynamic of the relationship, and since I don't like that dynamic myself and don't work from that premise, most of my interpretations will be pretty off and probably fail to account for something important under that scenario. I can see that Perseverance may feel oddly placed before the romance for a mage, but yeah, I admittedly never even take any of that into consideration when I'm interpreting how the relationship develops.

FWIW, my canon IQ is a mage and my interpretation of these scenes is pretty much identical to yours. Obviously individual tastes will vary, and the relationship works pre- or post-Perseverance, but there's nothing in the mage dynamic that precludes that later start. He makes it quite clear that he considers the IQ a boss/companion/friend/LI first and a mage a distant second. The way it played out, I felt that my Inquisitor was more hung up about it than he was. (She only brought it up the once, though.)

[MelissaGT]

Mine as well, if I had darker hair. Shape's the same, at least!

 

 

A mod. I made a retexture for myself using one of the Inquisitor complexions, and used Morrigan's eyebrows as a base for those brows. I can't choose them from the in-game eyebrow slider, though, since these are part of the complexion's texture now. Downside of that is, tattoos show up on top of the eyebrows. I tried modding the actual eyebrows so I could choose them from the slider, but couldn't get a look that I was happy with, so did it this way. It was easier. Female elves and humans share this complexion, so it works for both of those races.

 

Did you run across any NPC's with the "double eyebrow" look that use the same texture?

[LolaLei]

The one you guys were just talking about the other day, with the Inquisitor thinking they were back at Haven and seducing Leliana, but later realizing they were still trapped in Envy's nightmare. Possibly this dialogue with Solas is the moment the IQ realises something is wrong, Solas figures out Envy is within the IQ and they need to "go back" to Therinfall, or more likely wake up from the dream.

 

Oh!

[MelissaGT]

The helmet is covering practically his whole face,  you can barely see his eyes, it would look pretty bad in most if not all cutscenes.

 

There are appropriate occasions where I would have liked to have seen it:

 

• Siege of Adamant
• Temple of Dumat
• Arbor Wilds

I can understand him not having it in Haven, since that was a surprise attack. 

[MelissaGT]

Same here, I thought the delivery on that line was a bit... I don't know, I cycled through the other responses and found the non-flirts warmer than that one.

 

The one flirt I did find super awkward, and would skip every time if Cullen's reaction to it wasn't so cute, is the chess scene one. "We should spend more time together" souds so overly forward that early in their friendship. A shame, because the lead-in text is perfect - "We should do this more often" was just the right line for that conversation, moving things forward a little bit without going all waste-of-perfectly-fine-elf Hawke levels of awkward on him. And it still worked with his adorable "I'd like that" response.

 

But his reaction to that flirt...be still my heart!!! 

 

 

It's not an overly forward flirt, in my opinion, so I have no probs choosing it. Even with my quizzy that hadn't come to terms with her feelings yet used it. She's usually a smooth operator, but because she has these new feelings (that confuse and frustrate her) she had a socially awkward moment. To me, it was perfect delivery. 

[MelissaGT]

 

This is all beside my own personal theory that they finally wised up and realized that the helmet is silly, makes no sense given what lions are associated with in Thedas, and overall, is silly.

 

Out of curiosity, what are lions associated with in Thedas?

[R2s Muse]

But his reaction to that flirt...be still my heart!!! 

 

 

It's not an overly forward flirt, in my opinion, so I have no probs choosing it. Even with my quizzy that hadn't come to terms with her feelings yet used it. She's usually a smooth operator, but because she has these new feelings (that confuse and frustrate her) she had a socially awkward moment. To me, it was perfect delivery. 

I never felt like the flirt was awkward, except insofar as flirting is always awkward ("you, um, wanna...?" "uh, yeah, sure" LOL). What I thought was awkward (bless his heart) was Greg's delivery on the "this might be the first time we've discussed something other than the Inquisition" line. I mean, I think perhaps it was supposed to be awkward. But... I dunno. Compared to rest of his read of Cullen, it felt like he was just reading a line on a page. 

[R2s Muse]

Out of curiosity, what are lions associated with in Thedas?

Oh boy... don't get me started on that one. In short: Orlais. Valmonts. Lion of Orlais. Val Royeaux. 

 

None of those being: templars or fereldans.