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[Penguin]

So I just collected everything for all three specialisations on my nightmare PT now I'm not sure whether to choose KE or Rift Mage. Both of them have really cool ideas, KE came from Arcane warrior which is powerful and it allow you to charge with your warrior. Rift mage have more connection with fade and maximizing the use of your mark, Cole also like it if you are a fade mage. Solas apparently don't care what you choose as long as you said you are doing this because you want to learn

 

I've always used KE in previous PT and loved it. But now I think maybe I should try new specialisation, does rift mage works well on nightmare difficulty? I only played on normal, I was afraid choose rift mage then kept dying...does KE better at surviving? Somebody tried both please help?

[blauwvis]

And, pinup!Cullen. *inelegant guffaw*

Well... there's an image I'll never be able to drink away. Though he reminds me more of Tim Curry than Cullen... oh great, now I'm stuck thinking about an Arl Howe/Dr. Frank-n-furter crossover instead.

[alwayshungry]

http://hironoru.tumb...t-done-with-you

 

http://dr-mur.tumblr...velyan-shows-to

[Laurelinde]

Hopping back a few topics, because I've had my morning round of “coffee and catching up with the Cullen thread,” and I feel compelled to comment on DG's post about the cancelled DA2 expansion. I found it so terribly disheartening. Undoubtedly things would have changed during the development process, but the fact that his first impulse is reach for the misery and death cards just... it wearies me. Pain! Angst! It's so grimdark and mature, don'cha know?

I've always been a loyal and optimistic customer, but if he's run out of ideas, or gotten so bored or cynical regarding the whole business that all he can think is, “Let's introduce a fascinating and varied cast of characters for our players to get to know and love, and THEN TORTURE AND KILL THEM LOL,” then, sorry, I'm not going to stick around for that.

That said, since so much of DA:I is about finding hope and strength, seeking brighter tomorrows, etc., it could simply be that a miserable story was just going to be the best fit for the much darker DA2. I certainly hope that's the explanation, and not that misery is DG's favorite drum and, by god, he's going to beat it every chance he gets.

 

I can't help wondering if Varric is acting as the writers' mouthpiece when he talks about the way to grab a reader being to make a loveable character and put them through hell.  There's something to that, I suppose, but I don't think it needs to be all doom and gloom all the time.  I'm glad that the trend for grimdark over the last ten years or so seems to be lifting a bit, of late - look at the popularity of the Marvel movies and there is still an appetite for technicolor fun where the good guys triumph, it seems.

 

For me, it boils down to wanting happy endings in fiction because, well, where else do we get them?  Real life so rarely provides them.  I have often wondered if that is why so much of what is considered good literature is tragedy: because that is what we see as the fundamental truth of the human condition.

 

Bah, enough of this, I'm going to watch more minion videos my friend is linking me!

[SheWildWolf]

And, pinup!Cullen. *inelegant guffaw*

 

http://cheesiestart....not-sorry-sorry

 

Oh man, I don't know if I can ever un-see this now 

[Tishina]

And, pinup!Cullen. *inelegant guffaw*

 

http://cheesiestart....not-sorry-sorry

Oh, man, I've got to stop laughing or my daughter will stumble out of her cave and growl at me for waking her up...

[Queen Rowan]

I can't help wondering if Varric is acting as the writers' mouthpiece when he talks about the way to grab a reader being to make a loveable character and put them through hell.  There's something to that, I suppose, but I don't think it needs to be all doom and gloom all the time.  I'm glad that the trend for grimdark over the last ten years or so seems to be lifting a bit, of late - look at the popularity of the Marvel movies and there is still an appetite for technicolor fun where the good guys triumph, it seems.

 

For me, it boils down to wanting happy endings in fiction because, well, where else do we get them?  Real life so rarely provides them.  I have often wondered if that is why so much of what is considered good literature is tragedy: because that is what we see as the fundamental truth of the human condition.

 

Bah, enough of this, I'm going to watch more minion videos my friend is linking me!

 

I actually like tragedy and drama in games like this. It's compelling. I really like the scary movie tactic where you get your happy ending but then at the last second a scene shows that everything may not be as well and dandy as you think. If every scenario always had a happy ending and nothing bad ever happened to the character video games (and other entertainment) would be pretty boring. When a character dies in a game/movie/book I'm upset at first, sure, but then I start dissecting okay what events led to this? Were there signs foreshadowing this all along? How could this have turned out differently? and I think that's what developers want to happen when we experience their games. The trick is to find the happy medium between a happy-go-lucky world and a perpetually tragic one. Imo, Bioware does a pretty good job with finding that balance, and in a lot of situations you're given the choice of having the unhappy or happy ending to quests. 

[SpiritMuse]

And, pinup!Cullen. *inelegant guffaw*
 
http://cheesiestart....not-sorry-sorry

Wut.

*rolls around on the floor*

[kalasaurus]

Oh man, this polyamory bug is hilarious.  Right after Solas removed her vallaslin and made out with her/"dumped" her, she goes to hug Cullen.  I feel awful but amused at the same time.  I have no idea how to headcanon away this bug.  I suppose I can just go back and have her "dump" Solas first, even though she already did but he didn't take a hint the game bugged out.

[Tishina]

What does that even mean? Lol. Is it the two gossiping nobles who comment on your relationship?

I guess, lol. I haven't been in Skyhold for long (I got such a late start on the game, plus I'm up to three simultaneous PTs now ). I wasn't expecting it to trigger when I ran out a door into the main hall so a lot of it didn't register to well, but I think one of them had just asked about whether my IQ was showing any interest in anyone (not in those words), and the other answered something about no one interesting? Then there was a comment on me being diplomatic (which surprised me as I've been balancing between the three so far so it could be more related to that too. Derzka flirted with almost everyone at Haven once (except IB), but she's progressed to Solas's first kiss and only flirts now with Cass and Dorian since it's harmless and they enjoy it. However, I still haven't had a message that the romance is officially starting, so I just found it a funny "negotiations lead to the bedroom" kind of remark.

 

(On a side note, passing up that first flirt at Skyhold with Cullen was harder than I thought, which has me pushing to get my mage there not. But apparently they try to keep him an option however many flirts you pass up because he now has the one about "anyone special" available, lol)

[Tishina]

Totally had to have been lovers at some point. I don't know about the rest of you, but I don't nuzzle my friends like this. Mostly.

I think they were too (after all, how many centuries have they been around, even though they obviously aren't interested in each other that way anymore?) But actually, I do have a very few friends who'd do that to me because we have a comfortable, non-romantic relationship, including one gay friend who'd not only kiss my hand but bite my finger to make me blush (and smack him) because apparently he finds it hilarious that he can make me blush. However, I get a sensual vibe from those photos that suggests something was there in the past, whether lovers who parted on good terms, or two people who went through h**l and back that left them closer than friends.

[LolaLei]

I actually like tragedy and drama in games like this. It's compelling. I really like the scary movie tactic where you get your happy ending but then at the last second a scene shows that everything may not be as well and dandy as you think. If every scenario always had a happy ending and nothing bad ever happened to the character video games (and other entertainment) would be pretty boring. When a character dies in a game/movie/book I'm upset at first, sure, but then I start dissecting okay what events led to this? Were there signs foreshadowing this all along? How could this have turned out differently? and I think that's what developers want to happen when we experience their games. The trick is to find the happy medium between a happy-go-lucky world and a perpetually tragic one. Imo, Bioware does a pretty good job with finding that balance, and in a lot of situations you're given the choice of having the unhappy or happy ending to quests.

I think it depends really. I'm all for drama and tragedy but not when it's shock/death for shock/deaths sake, which is what it sounded like was planned. Tbh, I prefer the way Mass Effect approached them in ME3 (except the final 5 minutes).

Sometimes I wonder if DG even enjoys his job anymore, lol.

[riverbanks]

LOL You know... I surprised to see that apparently Bran became Viscount...? I guess that was this playthrough with my promage Hawke... altho I don't know if it happens after Viscount Hawke split Kirkwall, too. Anyone know?

There's a letter from Bran himself to some noble or another in game, where he states he is only temporarily holding the throne for Hawke until her return to Kirkwall. Apparently several nobles have been entertaining foolish notions of taking Kirkwall, and Bran and Aveline have been busy disabusing them of such notions and reminding them that the Champion is still Viscount, and you best not mess with her. That's my girl.

(Extra headcanon for a Sebastian romancer: need Bran remind these people that Hawke counts not only with Kirkwall's forces behind her throne, but Starkhaven's too? These people are playing with fire here.)

At work now so I can't post a screencap of his letter, but it should be in your codex entries under Characters, either under Hawke's entry or Bran's.

[Tishina]

I actually like tragedy and drama in games like this. It's compelling. I really like the scary movie tactic where you get your happy ending but then at the last second a scene shows that everything may not be as well and dandy as you think. If every scenario always had a happy ending and nothing bad ever happened to the character video games (and other entertainment) would be pretty boring. When a character dies in a game/movie/book I'm upset at first, sure, but then I start dissecting okay what events led to this? Were there signs foreshadowing this all along? How could this have turned out differently? and I think that's what developers want to happen when we experience their games. The trick is to find the happy medium between a happy-go-lucky world and a perpetually tragic one. Imo, Bioware does a pretty good job with finding that balance, and in a lot of situations you're given the choice of having the unhappy or happy ending to quests. 

It's the balance that worries me. I find it frustrating when a writer dumps too many bad things on the same person, or where nothing ever goes right or ends well. I don't mind some tragedy (as long as it hasn't crossed the line into absurd levels), but I want a reasonable level of happy endings, or options for them. Frankly, I get more out of a writer taking a single event, even one that's relatively minor, and exploring the ways it impacts a person. Using major tragedies, especially multiple ones, tends to avoid actually having to explore them in depth and the tragedy is a substitute for creating a fleshed out person. That's not to say Bioware does that usually in DA; there are, as you say, choices most of the time, and some of their character development is wonderful. But like Lola said, they seem to want to dance close to the shock/death for its own sake sometimes. If I wanted a really dark, depressing game/story, I'd be into zombie apocalypses and horror, but I'm not.

[LolaLei]

It's the balance that worries me. I find it frustrating when a writer dumps too many bad things on the same person, or where nothing ever goes right or ends well. I don't mind some tragedy (as long as it hasn't crossed the line into absurd levels), but I want a reasonable level of happy endings, or options for them. Frankly, I get more out of a writer taking a single event, even one that's relatively minor, and exploring the ways it impacts a person. Using major tragedies, especially multiple ones, tends to avoid actually having to explore them in depth and the tragedy is a substitute for creating a fleshed out person. That's not to say Bioware does that usually in DA; there are, as you say, choices most of the time, and some of their character development is wonderful. But like Lola said, they seem to want to dance close to the shock/death for its own sake sometimes. If I wanted a really dark, depressing game/story, I'd be into zombie apocalypses and horror, but I'm not.

Agreed. I mean, I guess we should face facts that by the end of the DA franchise most, if not all, our protagonists and a large percentage of our fan favourites will be killed off if that's the way the games are heading.

[blauwvis]

Oh dear, everyone has responded to this while I typed up my own response... gonna post it anyway, though!
 

I actually like tragedy and drama in games like this. It's compelling.

It can certainly be compelling, when they do it well. The rest of the time, it just comes across as cheap emotional manipulation or – even worse – just plain dull. I thought Haven's destruction and its aftermath was absolutely the best part of DA:I (ok, aside from Cullen's romance); it was certainly the most compelling. The game could have used more moments like that: setbacks that served a story purpose, rather than just being drama for drama's sake (hellooo Leandra's corpse).

Take A Song of Ice and Fire, for instance. I enjoyed the first few. Ned Stark's beheading? Wow. Red Wedding? Gut punch. Joffrey dies? Awesome. But by the time I got around to reading the most recent ones, GRRM's shtick was so familiar that I couldn't do much more than shrug at the deaths. If he gets around to writing any more, I'll probably read them, mostly out of idle curiosity, but by hitting on a technique that worked and then running it into the ground, he completely killed any interest I had in the place or the people.

And when I read comments like Gaider's, or consider the many times they've talked about the writers feasting on the tears of their fans (which I always took to be a joke... but sometimes I'm less sure), I worry that that's the direction that at least some of the team would like to go.

[LolaLei]

Truth be told, I'm dreading what DAI's expansions are gonna lead to.

[Queen Rowan]

There's a letter from Bran himself to some noble or another in game, where he states he is only temporarily holding the throne for Hawke until her return to Kirkwall. Apparently several nobles have been entertaining foolish notions of taking Kirkwall, and Bran and Aveline have been busy disabusing them of such notions and reminding them that the Champion is still Viscount, and you best not mess with her. That's my girl.

(Extra headcanon for a Sebastian romancer: need Bran remind these people that Hawke counts not only with Kirkwall's forces behind her throne, but Starkhaven's too? These people are playing with fire here.)

At work now so I can't post a screencap of his letter, but it should be in your codex entries under Characters, either under Hawke's entry or Bran's.

 

I have to search for this now. He is one of those odd characters that grew on me... his sass was spot on. xD 

[LOLandStuff]

And, pinup!Cullen. *inelegant guffaw*

 

http://cheesiestart....not-sorry-sorry

 

Sorry to ruin it for you but I can't stop thinking of Buffalo Bill.

[Queen Rowan]

Oh dear, everyone has responded to this while I typed up my own response... gonna post it anyway, though!
 

It can certainly be compelling, when they do it well. The rest of the time, it just comes across as cheap emotional manipulation or – even worse – just plain dull. I thought Haven's destruction and its aftermath was absolutely the best part of DA:I (ok, aside from Cullen's romance); it was certainly the most compelling. The game could have used more moments like that: setbacks that served a story purpose, rather than just being drama for drama's sake (hellooo Leandra's corpse).

Take A Song of Ice and Fire, for instance. I enjoyed the first few. Ned Stark's beheading? Wow. Red Wedding? Gut punch. Joffrey dies? Awesome. But by the time I got around to reading the most recent ones, GRRM's shtick was so familiar that I couldn't do much more than shrug at the deaths. If he gets around to writing any more, I'll probably read them, mostly out of idle curiosity, but by hitting on a technique that worked and then running it into the ground, he completely killed any interest I had in the place or the people.

And when I read comments like Gaider's, or consider the many times they've talked about the writers feasting on the tears of their fans (which I always took to be a joke... but sometimes I'm less sure), I worry that that's the direction that at least some of the team would like to go.

 

I agree. I'm definitely not one for constant death by any means, especially of those characters whom I really love. My point was merely that there has to be some tragedy in a game like this. I like the comparison you made between GoT and DA. If there is tragedy, it should be tastefully done rather than just killing off characters to kill off characters, a la Game of Thrones, to the point that it becomes predictable and unemotional. I guess that's the thing. I like to be emotionally moved. And tragedy is usually one of the best ways to do that. Maybe that's why Bioware likes to implement it in the games so much and teases us about it. But I also think there are other ways to emotionally move people that aren't so devastating. I really just think there needs to be that balance that keeps the unpredictability there and doesn't arm the fans with torches and pitchforks lol.

[kalasaurus]

LMAO at what Cullen says for the Bestow Mourning Halla mission.  Good thing my Lavellan romancing him is pretty laid back in her elfyness and has a sense of humor XD

 

[Tishina]

Agreed. I mean, I guess we should face facts that by the end of the DA franchise most, if not all, our protagonists and a large percentage of our fan favourites will be killed off if that's the way the games are heading.

At the point it's clear that's really what they'll do, I'll be bailing on their games, I'm afraid. I'm not a dark, apocalyptic kind of gamer (fantasy games are my escape from my real world work where I read about real people's tragedies constantly). What Blauwvis says about GoTs is one of the reasons I have no particular interest in the series; first, tragedy/betrayal/unhappy endings seem to be the entire focus, but the emotional impact when you rely on repeated tragedies is like a drug addiction: you have to keep upping the dosage to get the same results. Frankly, I don't want to be involved in a series when I know that almost every character I get attached to will die or have something else horrible will happen to him or her shortly. Where DAI seems to get it right is in some of their smaller tragedies, like Dorian's personal story about his family which I think has a huge emotional gut punch. Or Sera's.

 

I agree. I'm definitely not one for constant death by any means, especially of those characters whom I really love. My point was merely that there has to be some tragedy in a game like this. I like the comparison you made between GoT and DA. If there is tragedy, it should be tastefully done rather than just killing off characters to kill off characters, a la Game of Thrones, to the point that it becomes predictable and unemotional. I guess that's the thing. I like to be emotionally moved. And tragedy is usually one of the best ways to do that. Maybe that's why Bioware likes to implement it in the games so much and teases us about it. But I also think there are other ways to emotionally move people that aren't so devastating. I really just think there needs to be that balance that keeps the unpredictability there and doesn't arm the fans with torches and pitchforks lol.

Exactly.

[alwayshungry]

http://skart87.tumbl...arch-also-dirty

Spoiler

[Tishina]

Oh man, this polyamory bug is hilarious.  Right after Solas removed her vallaslin and made out with her/"dumped" her, she goes to hug Cullen.  I feel awful but amused at the same time.  I have no idea how to headcanon away this bug.  I suppose I can just go back and have her "dump" Solas first, even though she already did but he didn't take a hint the game bugged out.

That's not a bug, it's an unintended feature giving you an option the devs didn't plan for. I'm sure a lot of people would have liked to go get a hug from Cullen after that

[kalasaurus]

That's not a bug, it's an unintended feature giving you an option the devs didn't plan for. I'm sure a lot of people would have liked to go get a hug from Cullen after that

Heh, Cullen's such a sweetheart

Spoiler

 

 

 

I ended up going back a save and am putting off talking to Solas... I'll just headcanon that they're really good friends, like really really good friends who occasionally make out or something.  I'd still like the vallaslin talk, which is something I could picture a friend saying.