138964 réponses à ce sujet

[LolaLei]

Dude, hearing what you're going through... a warranty return sounds the least painful to my mind. Esp if you're not that comfortable diagnosing PCs. Vaya con Dios, my friend.
 

One can certainly hope!  I'll be pretty surprised if they did a DLC with much romance in it, tho. ... gah... flashbacks to how many times I ran over the Legacy banter triggers, trying to find some trace --any trace!--of my Seb rivalmance. :sob:

Oh, I don't doubt for a second that we'll get anything more than maybe one or two additional pieces of romantic dialogue/recognition from the LI's when it comes to DLC/expansions, I was just throwing out hypotheticals and ideas that could improve on things IF they were to take such a route.

While it would be lovely to see the same level of romantic interaction added to future DAI DLC/expansions that they did for the Citadel DLC in ME3 I highly doubt they'd do it (even though they say they're listening to player/fan feedback) simply because the Citadel DLC was just pure fan fodder to end the game on s fun high note since it was Shepard's last hurrah.

[Cerulione]

He could only have been there with Lambert if you have the world state where he's promoted to Knight-Commander in Kirkwall (Templar side ending in DA2), as Knight-Captains wouldn't have the authority. I'd like to think that Cullen was there in such a world state because at this point he's the Knight-Commander of the very Circle where this whole mess first broke out, but then again... Lambert says "not a single voiced raised in protest," so if he was there indeed, Cullen would need some really really good reasons to not raise all hell right there when Lambert proposed breaking the Accord. Maybe the sheer shell-shock of it, maybe the final straw making him just shake his head and stay quiet because what's even the point... it would have been a good story to hear about.

 

Even if he's not promoted to Knight Commander, Kirkwall's Templars were still under his command. So I can picture him in the breaking of Nevarran Accord to represent Kirkwall even if he's not KCommander.

[Hellion Rex]

LOL If you import a promage Hawke, he doesn't get promoted officially, Brianne confirms. The Orlesian announcer dudes got it wrong. 

 

http://r2smuse.tumbl...e-is-not-always

Oh for Christ's sake.

 

However, if he was the effective leader, I still think he would have been at the meeting.

[Cerulione]

I didn't romance him, and found his entire character arc (if you want to call it that) forgettable and very disappointing. Maybe they had too many characters. Maybe they chose to funnel funds towards graphics and world-building and so character stories got cut. Who knows. But what we got, both with Cullen and all the other characters, pales in comparison to Fenris pacing up and down in his mansion, growling and agonizing over Danarius, or Isabela showing up at your house, desperately pleading for you to help her, then later running off, then later RETURNING, or helping Merrill stand up to her mother figure, helping or dissuading her against working on her dangerous pet project, having her snap at you and tell you to leave, helping her defeat the demon she thought she could control, then having to either put her down or help her defeat her own clan.

 

I mean, no, the story, the drama, the conflict just is not there. So, so sad.

 

Compared to DA2, all character of DA:I's personal story arc is extremely watered down. We got like 3 personal quest for each act (1 convo only, 1 other usually action-involved, 1 gift) for each companion. That's a lot...

[R2s Muse]

Even if he's not promoted to Knight Commander, Kirkwall's Templars were still under his command. So I can picture him in the breaking of Nevarran Accord to represent Kirkwall even if he's not KCommander.

Mmm, I don't know about that. The KCs were in Val Royeaux to vote. I doubt they'd let someone they chose to not actually promote into the position make decisions for the Order. Otherwise, why wouldn't they have just promoted him? I could see a puppet KC being promoted who actually did nothing, or maybe they leave the position vacant just as a slap in the face. 

 

Need. to know.

[R2s Muse]

Oh, I don't doubt for a second that we'll get anything more than maybe one or two additional pieces of romantic dialogue/recognition from the LI's when it comes to DLC/expansions, I was just throwing out hypotheticals and ideas that could improve on things IF they were to take such a route.

While it would be lovely to see the same level of romantic interaction added to future DAI DLC/expansions that they did for the Citadel DLC in ME3 I highly doubt they'd do it (even though they say they're listening to player/fan feedback) simply because the Citadel DLC was just pure fan fodder to end the game on s fun high note since it was Shepard's last hurrah.

LOL I always thought the Citadel DLC was an apology to the fandom for the endng!  

 

I'm sure you're right that there will be something. *sigh* "Time will tell."

[Hellion Rex]

Mmm, I don't know about that. The KCs were in Val Royeaux to vote. I doubt they'd let someone they chose to not actually promote into the position make decisions for the Order. Otherwise, why wouldn't they have just promoted him? I could see a puppet KC being promoted who actually did nothing, or maybe they leave the position vacant just as a slap in the face. 

 

Need. to know.

Ma'am, I think you overthinking this. Perhaps there was just never any time for him to get promoted, especially with all the agitation between mages and templars up until this point.

[R2s Muse]

Ma'am, I think you overthinking this. Perhaps there was just never any time for him to get promoted, especially with all the agitation between mages and templars up until this point.

Erm, no, I don't think I am. If it was no big deal, then they wouldn't have made a point that he doesn't get promoted under a promage Hawke circumstance. The easiest thing, given all their other constraints, would be the simple story that he was the Knight Commander in all eventualities.  

[riverbanks]

Even if he's not promoted to Knight Commander, Kirkwall's Templars were still under his command. So I can picture him in the breaking of Nevarran Accord to represent Kirkwall even if he's not KCommander.

 

I could picture it (and again, prefer to think that he was there because damnit it just makes sense, how could the guy in charge of Kirkwall of all places not be present at such a breaking point for the Order), but Lambert mentions only fifteen Knight-Commanders being present. Who knows, maybe some of them had their Knight-Captains present too...

 

Eh, it's a minor ripple in the ocean of things we don't know about Cullen in the four years between DA2 and DAI, so we can always handwave it and say yeah he was totally there either way? I don't know. Him being there and watching it happen at least works better for his suddenly very bitter DAI characterization compared to where he was left off in DA2.

[Cerulione]

Mmm, I don't know about that. The KCs were in Val Royeaux to vote. I doubt they'd let someone they chose to not actually promote into the position make decisions for the Order. Otherwise, why wouldn't they have just promoted him? I could see a puppet KC being promoted who actually did nothing, or maybe they leave the position vacant just as a slap in the face. 

 

Need. to know.

 

Too bad Lambert did not mentionned how many KCs were agreeing/not agreeing in his codex.

 

I wonder, who made the KC appointment actually?

[Zarro-Morningstar]

Yeah, none of them got much of anything. Varric is another one that i'd consider to be very plot heavy but got very little airtime. But that's my point, they didn't want any one character to be "the plot heavy companion", couple that with the whole open world feel and lack of interaction "in the field" and everyone's involvement felt watered down. If that makes sense?

I'm not kidding Varric is probably one of the least plot heavy characters in DA:I from the way I see things. I see Solas, and Cassandra being the ones who truly meant something to the plot...perhaps even Cole at some points. I really disagree with their decision with making the Protagonist have most the spotlight...to be honest I find that to be horrible writing. You do not want your Protagonist to get all the spotlight on them or they will seem like a Gary Stu/Mary Sue. Nobody likes someone who is like. "Look...LOOK AT ME...I'M THE BEST HAHAHAH!" Sure, you don't want to have so much focus on side characters that your Protagonist seems to be less important...but really Bioware? Trying to lessen the plot importance of a companion is not going to help you. At least that is the way I see things.

[LolaLei]

I didn't romance him, and found his entire character arc (if you want to call it that) forgettable and very disappointing. Maybe they had too many characters. Maybe they chose to funnel funds towards graphics and world-building and so character stories got cut. Who knows. But what we got, both with Cullen and all the other characters, pales in comparison to Fenris pacing up and down in his mansion, growling and agonizing over Danarius, or Isabela showing up at your house, desperately pleading for you to help her, then later running off, then later RETURNING, or helping Merrill stand up to her mother figure, helping or dissuading her against working on her dangerous pet project, having her snap at you and tell you to leave, helping her defeat the demon she thought she could control, then having to either put her down or help her defeat her own clan.
 
I mean, no, the story, the drama, the conflict just is not there. So, so sad.

While there was a huge lack in companion interaction (asking them questions, kissing them whenever we want etc) DA2 was certainly far more character driven than DAI, all of them were interwoven into the main plot in some way and all of them had opinions on the situation that they voiced frequently. That's what's lacking in DAI and I think that's largely in part due to the whole open world feel to the game. I also agree that having a larger cast seems to have watered down everyone's involvement, which is some ME2 also had a problem with, although the game itself wasn't open world so it was far less noticable.

For me DA:O got it right when it came to companion interaction and involvement, flaws aside it done a good job of balancing out actual interaction with the protagonist (asking questions, initimate interaction etc) with the companions personal involvement with the main plot(s) itself. In regards to all 3 games DAI feels the least personal/intimate in terms of group bonding/dynamic and protagonist/companion/advisor interaction and dynamic, again I feel this is down to the open world/MMO approach they've taken.

What i'd love is if they put out a DLC that just added in more companion/advisor content in general, dialogue that was cut, scenes of the companions and advisors interacting with each other (like they did in DA2), that sort of thing. It'll never happen though.

[Cerulione]

Ma'am, I think you overthinking this. Perhaps there was just never any time for him to get promoted, especially with all the agitation between mages and templars up until this point.

 

If they have time to promote him into KC in Hawke!pro-templar PT, they normally also have time to do the same in pro!mage PT?

 

I could picture it (and again, prefer to think that he was there because damnit it just makes sense, how could the guy in charge of Kirkwall of all places not be present at such a breaking point for the Order), but Lambert mentions only fifteen Knight-Commanders being present. Who knows, maybe some of them had their Knight-Captains present too...

 

Eh, it's a minor ripple in the ocean of things we don't know about Cullen in the four years between DA2 and DAI, so we can always handwave it and say yeah he was totally there either way? I don't know. Him being there and watching it happen at least works better for his suddenly very bitter DAI characterization.

 

Wait, where do you hear about this 15 KC?

[Hellion Rex]

Too bad Lambert did not mentionned how many KCs were agreeing/not agreeing in his codex.

 

I wonder, who made the KC appointment actually?

My guess is that it'd be the nearest Grand Cleric, Starkhaven, most likely. I don't think the Divine is the one who promotes Templars.

[Sephirona]

We're looking at it from fundamentally different perspectives and different expectations of what we wanted to see from Cullen's storyline -your expectations were about his feelings on mages, mine were on his feelings on the Order- so of course the payoff of such expectations will feel different, depending on one's focus.

 

For the sake of keeping it short since I've gone over this at lenght before - the fine point is. Ser Barris got the storyline I wanted for Cullen. And that's pretty disappointing for someone who waited for years for that particular story to be told, only to see it being taken away from Cullen and given to the new guy we just met five seconds ago. It gave me a new character to love, sure, but it also took away a huge part of what I liked about Cullen before, and that's kinda hard to take in stride. I can't honestly say I'm satisfied with the half-baked storyline and character development he got, but it is what it is, Brienne did what she could given the constrains she had to work with, I should count my lucky stars that we got Cullen in this game at all, etc etc.

 

I can understand that we perhaps wanted to see different things from his story, but I don't see my interpretation to be solely based on his feelings towards mages. The first part of what I wrote was to address my opinion of R2's comments on how he became a nice person again, and I neglected to separate my thoughts about him leaving the Order into a separate paragraph, my apologies. What I was trying to say was that he is returning to his original desire to protect people in general, mages or not. The Mage-Templar war hurts not just mages and Templars but also civilians caught in the crossfire, and that goes against what he'd joined the Order to do in the first place. It didn't look like he actually was planning to leave the Templars until he saw the opportunity to do more good with the Inquisition, either - he stuck around for quite a while to fix things in Kirkwall, after all. He was just more enthusiastic about being able to better protect and serve under the Inquisition when that opportunity presented itself. If he had stuck around like Ser Barris did, he'd have been stuck with following bad orders from those above him - that wouldn't have helped much at all, and he might have even suffered the same terrible fate if the future Inquisitor decided to go to the mages for help first. Ser Barris himself doesn't get the opportunity to shake things up and make them better till the Inquisition steps in, either. Cullen happened to see an opportunity to protect more people outside of the Order's socially constructed idea of what it means to do good - having the chance to break free from the Order was just a lucky side effect.

 

That said, I do also think that part of the reason he left was due to his personal desire to leave even though he did stick around for 5+ extra years out of a sense of duty. It's somewhat hard to separate Cullen's experiences with mages from his motivations in that regard because he did suffer a lot serving with the Order. What he went through in Kinloch, though uncalled for, was still the unfortunate result of centuries of oppression based on a system that the Templars upheld. Ser Barris' continued dedication to the Templar order is admirable, but until Bioware releases more information about him I don't think there's anything to suggest he's suffered through the same sort of torture. Ser Barris being betrayed by his superiors is somewhat less traumatizing and disillusioning compared to Cullen being betrayed by his superior despite his need to believe in her after his torture, so I found Cullen's waning allegiance understandable. Barris just doesn't have the same perspective on the issue. But I can see how it would bother you that Barris seems so much more loyal to the Order than Cullen is - I'm sorry we both couldn't get the same sense of fulfillment from Cullen's story arc.

[R2s Muse]

Too bad Lambert did not mentionned how many KCs were agreeing/not agreeing in his codex.

 

I wonder, who made the KC appointment actually?

Well, technically, they all agreed with him publicly. All 15. 

 

I believe the Knight-Commanders are appointed by the Grand Cleric for their region. So, presumably whoever Elthina's successor was, or lacking that, the Divine. 

[Zarro-Morningstar]

Okay wow...I don't think I have ever seen all you guys so pessimistic/depressed. I don't like this...Cullen may have changed just as Leliana, but guys can we all just take a breather. I don't mean to say anyone is heated or over thinking their posts...but I miss when everyone was so happy...which was literally a few hours ago...can we go back to that time?

[Hellion Rex]

Well, technically, they all agreed with him publicly. All 15. 

 

I believe the Knight-Commanders are appointed by the Grand Cleric for their region. So, presumably whoever Elthina's successor was, or lacking that, the Divine. 

If there was no quick successor, I'd imagine they'd consider Kirkwall to be in a state of emergency. I'd imagine that the nearest Grand Cleric would take charge w/ orders from the Divine until there can be a new Kirkwall Grand Cleric appointed.

[R2s Muse]

If they have time to promote him into KC in Hawke!pro-templar PT, they normally also have time to do the same in pro!mage PT?

 

 

Wait, where do you hear about this 15 KC?

Asunder states explicitly that all 15 Knight-Commanders supported Lambert breaking the Nevarran Accord. 

[riverbanks]

Wait, where do you hear about this 15 KC?

 

Asunder epilogue, the quote is:

 

"Lord Seeker Lambert strode into his chambers, his face flush with satisfaction. (...) Fifteeen Knight-Commanders in one room, and not a single one had raised a voice in protest. The all knew what needed to be done. Those few that held private reservations would either remain silent or be replaced."

 

So Cullen could be among the fifteen and have his reasons to stay silent, or he could be one of those with "private reservations" Lamber is already thinking of booting and replacing.

[LolaLei]

I'm not kidding Varric is probably one of the least plot heavy characters in DA:I from the way I see things. I see Solas, and Cassandra being the ones who truly meant something to the plot...perhaps even Cole at some points. I really disagree with their decision with making the Protagonist have most the spotlight...to be honest I find that to be horrible writing. You do not want your Protagonist to get all the spotlight on them or they will seem like a Gary Stu/Mary Sue. Nobody likes someone who is like. "Look...LOOK AT ME...I'M THE BEST HAHAHAH!" Sure, you don't want to have so much focus on side characters that your Protagonist seems to be less important...but really Bioware? Trying to lessen the plot importance of a companion is not going to help you. At least that is the way I see things.

To be honest the Inquisitor didn't get that much spotlight in terms of story either. I mean we done "cool sh*t" but it wasn't the previous two games where you got some backstory to their life before the breach etc. I'd say all the focus went on the environments and exploration.

While I agree that Cass etc were also plot heavy in terms of their link to the main plot, I disagree with you about Varric. Varric is one of the catalyst for half the crap going down (the red lyrium, Corypheus, etc) they just didn't bother to implement him enough into it beyond him occasionally feeling guilty for it and blaming himself, lol.

[Hellion Rex]

Asunder epilogue, the quote is:

 

"Lord Seeker Lambert strode into his chambers, his face flush with satisfaction. (...) Fifteeen Knight-Commanders in one room, and not a single one had raised a voice in protest. The all knew what needed to be done. Those few that held private reservations would either remain silent or be replaced."

 

So Cullen could be among the fifteen and have his reasons to stay silent, or he could be one of those with "private reservations" Lamber is already thinking of booting and replacing.

Hold up, y'all......It explicitly says "Fifteen Knight Commanders", not THE "Fifteen Knight Commanders", meaning there could have been more that were not present. The article, or lack thereof, changes that sentence entirely. Cullen could very well have been sitting in Kirkwall during this meeting.

[Hellion Rex]

Asunder epilogue, the quote is:

 

"Lord Seeker Lambert strode into his chambers, his face flush with satisfaction. (...) Fifteeen Knight-Commanders in one room, and not a single one had raised a voice in protest. The all knew what needed to be done. Those few that held private reservations would either remain silent or be replaced."

 

So Cullen could be among the fifteen and have his reasons to stay silent, or he could be one of those with "private reservations" Lamber is already thinking of booting and replacing.

 

 

 

Hold up, y'all......It explicitly says "Fifteen Knight Commanders", not THE "Fifteen Knight Commanders", meaning there could have been more that were not present. The article, or lack thereof, changes that sentence entirely. Cullen could very well have been sitting in Kirkwall during this meeting.

[Cerulione]

Asunder states explicitly that all 15 Knight-Commanders supported Lambert breaking the Nevarran Accord. 

Asunder epilogue, the quote is:

 

"Lord Seeker Lambert strode into his chambers, his face flush with satisfaction. (...) Fifteeen Knight-Commanders in one room, and not a single one had raised a voice in protest. The all knew what needed to be done. Those few that held private reservations would either remain silent or be replaced."

 

So Cullen could be among the fifteen and have his reasons to stay silent, or he could be one of those with "private reservations" Lamber is already thinking of booting and replacing.

 

Ok, so does this means it's confirmed black and white that Kirkwall did have a KC at that time...?

 

in any case it'll be a helluva story. Cullen could've choose to stay quiet because well, Lambert can simply have his head off especially if Hawke was pro-mage. It can be for a myriad of reasons. And this can be a very very good motivation for him to quit the Order with so much determination: Lambert.

 

Bioware, I want that story.

[R2s Muse]

Hold up, y'all......It explicitly says "Fifteen Knight Commanders", not THE "Fifteen Knight Commanders", meaning there could have been more that were not present. The article, or lack thereof, changes that sentence entirely. Cullen could very well have been sitting in Kirkwall during this meeting.

...except that all evidence points to there also being 15 Circles.