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[riverbanks]

but I miss when everyone was so happy...which was literally a few hours ago...can we go back to that time?

 

Yo, a few hours ago ya'll were killing the Inquisitor just to make Cullen cry, killing Cullen to up the drama, posting Celine Dion songs, etc. Wasn't the happiest thread ever around here.

 

I don't think anyone is actually upset, in any case, we're just feeling a bit wistful and missing all the things that might have been. We'll be back to discussing the properties of Cullen's manly funk under all that armor eventually.

[R2s Muse]

Yo, a few hours ago ya'll were killing the Inquisitor just to make Cullen cry, killing Cullen to up the drama, posting Celine Dion songs, etc. Wasn't the happiest thread ever around here.

 

I don't think anyone is actually upset, in any case, we're just feeling a bit wistful and missing all the things that might have been. We'll be back to discussing the properties of Cullen's manly funk under all that armor eventually.

...at least it's Cullen related... 

[Monica21]

Asunder epilogue, the quote is:

 

"Lord Seeker Lambert strode into his chambers, his face flush with satisfaction. (...) Fifteeen Knight-Commanders in one room, and not a single one had raised a voice in protest. The all knew what needed to be done. Those few that held private reservations would either remain silent or be replaced."

 

So Cullen could be among the fifteen and have his reasons to stay silent, or he could be one of those with "private reservations" Lamber is already thinking of booting and replacing.

 

What's the timeframe between the events of Asunder and Cassandra and Leliana marching the Seekers out of Kirkwall? I ask because I'd always presumed that that was when Cassandra recruited Cullen.

[R2s Muse]

What's the timeframe between the events of Asunder and Cassandra and Leliana marching the Seekers out of Kirkwall? I ask because I'd always presumed that that was when Cassandra recruited Cullen.

Asunder's ending happened just before Cassandra's interrogation of Varric in 9:40.

[Cerulione]

Yo, a few hours ago ya'll were killing the Inquisitor just to make Cullen cry, killing Cullen to up the drama, posting Celine Dion songs, etc. Wasn't the happiest thread ever around here.

 

I don't think anyone is actually upset, in any case, we're just feeling a bit wistful and missing all the things that might have been. We'll be back to discussing the properties of Cullen's manly funk under all that armor eventually.

 

Sooo... Oakmoss & sweat?

[Hellion Rex]

...except that all evidence points to there also being 15 Circles. 

But we already know that Knight Commanders don't have to be attached to Circles, like Harrith and Tavish.

[Zarro-Morningstar]

Yo, a few hours ago ya'll were killing the Inquisitor just to make Cullen cry, killing Cullen to up the drama, posting Celine Dion songs, etc. Wasn't the happiest thread ever around here.

 

I don't think anyone is actually upset, in any case, we're just feeling a bit wistful and missing all the things that might have been. We'll be back to discussing the properties of Cullen's manly funk under all that armor eventually.

I never killed Cullen... Now the IQ is another matter, lol! I believe Melissa was the one who posted those FF videos which got me hooked. I wasn't really all that sad though...

[LolaLei]

Asunder states explicitly that all 15 Knight-Commanders supported Lambert breaking the Nevarran Accord.

I can only assume that he left the Order before the 15 KC's voted to break the Accord, which in itself kinda borks the timeline of Cass interrogating Varric, since you'd think he would've told her to seek Varric out a lot sooner if that's the case. Maybe we should ask his writer?

[R2s Muse]

But we already know that Knight Commanders don't have to be attached to Circles, like Harrith and Tavish.

I don't think we know that for a fact, tho, do we? Just that they had the name Knight Commander?

[Monica21]

Asunder's ending happened just before Cassandra's interrogation of Varric in 9:40.

Then that could easily be why Cullen left the Order. It simply wasn't what he thought it was anymore. Not that he got a chance to tell us, and I wish there had been that. His codex letter is extraordinarily brief in that regard. Perhaps he sees the Inquisition as a higher calling?

[Hellion Rex]

I don't think we know that for a fact, tho, do we? Just that they had the name Knight Commander?

We have two Circles in Ferelden, with a total of 3 Knight Commanders in the same country, two of which were nowhere near the other Ferelden Circle of Jainen.

[R2s Muse]

I can only assume that he left the Order before the 15 KC's voted to break the Accord, which in itself kinda borks the timeline of Cass interrogating Varric, since you'd think he would've told her to seek Varric out a lot sooner if that's the case. Maybe we should ask his writer?

Everything they've done borks the timeline with Varric's interrogation. Aint no way Cass wouldn't have known anything about what happened with Hawke and Meredith if she were working with Cullen.

[R2s Muse]

We have two Circles in Ferelden, with a total of 3 Knight Commanders in the same country, two of which were nowhere near the other Ferelden Circle of Jainen.

Right.. but there  under unusual circumstances in any event, right?

[Zarro-Morningstar]

To be honest the Inquisitor didn't get that much spotlight in terms of story either. I mean we done "cool sh*t" but it wasn't the previous two games where you got some backstory to their life before the breach etc. I'd say all the focus went on the environments and exploration.

While I agree that Cass etc were also plot heavy in terms of their link to the main plot, I disagree with you about Varric. Varric is one of the catalyst for half the crap going down (the red lyrium, Corypheus, etc) they just didn't bother to implement him enough into it beyond him occasionally feeling guilty for it and blaming himself, lol.

I still find the IQ much more focused on than the previous protagonists in the terms of overshadowing the companions...well besides maybe Hawke. As you said earlier you loved how Alistair was so tied to the plot and then someone else pointed out that Morrigan was fairly represented as well. I can only speak for myself, but I never once felt like my Warden was being shown up by Alistair or Morrigan. Maybe it's just a personal preference of mine, but I really don't like seeing a story focus more so on one character and let the others rot in the background.

 

Mmhm DA:I did seem to focus more so on the immersion of the world in the terms of gameplay, not the narrative.

 

Ah thanks for reminding of what Varric actually did in DA:I, as in blaming himself and what not for past events. Other than that...I saw no significance in him and I really lost interest in him about the time I met Sera...who has even less plot significance. I loved DA2's Varric, this one...meh...at least for me.

[Sephirona]

Okay wow...I don't think I have ever seen all you guys so pessimistic/depressed. I don't like this...Cullen may have changed just as Leliana, but guys can we all just take a breather. I don't mean to say anyone is heated or over thinking their posts...but I miss when everyone was so happy...which was literally a few hours ago...can we go back to that time?

 

Oh, I'm sorry if my wordiness comes off that way. I don't mean to write huge paragraphs to argue, I just sometimes write a lot when I want to flesh out my points because I want to be extra clear. I'm certainly not upset or anything and it's not my intention to debate with anyone. ;

 

Though I have to say I do like reading and participating in discussion based on the story and characters, myself. It's kind of hard to really find a place to talk seriously about a fictional series that's really important to you with people who are equally invested (and who don't immediately brush off what you say because it's geekish).

[riverbanks]

Everything they've done borks the timeline with Varric's interrogation. Aint no way Cass wouldn't have known anything about what happened with Hawke and Meredith if she were working with Cullen.

 

I kinda got the impression, just from the way that Varric's interrogation lays the story out, that Cassandra only went to Cullen with her offer after hearing Varric's story. She and Leliana might have avoided the Templars at first because who would know how the Templars there would receive a bunch of envoys from the Divine at that point, and then after hearing Varric's tale she decided this Knight-Captain that kept coming up in the story (and even turned against Meredith in the end) was worth trying to approach for his own version of events. + Then, after talking to him, she maybe sees he's wavering and faltering in his loyalty to the Order but decides this man is too good to go waste on this pointless war, he's at least worth trying to salvage into working with her on this sorta-secret Inquisition project they're building as a fallback for Justinia's plans.

[Zarro-Morningstar]

Oh, I'm sorry if my wordiness comes off that way. I don't mean to write huge paragraphs to argue, I just sometimes write a lot when I want to flesh out my points because I want to be extra clear. I'm certainly not upset or anything and it's not my intention to debate with anyone. ;

 

Though I have to say I do like reading and participating in discussion based on the story and characters, myself. It's kind of hard to really find a place to talk seriously about a fictional series that's really important to you with people who are equally invested (and who don't immediately brush off what you say because it's geekish).

Oh I am quite wordy myself. I just found everyone to be really annoyed or...I can't even really describe the feeling. It's fun discussing all of this in a safe place, so I'm in the same boat with you XD. Regardless, we have not seen a story DLC for DA:I so I don't think we should be all "WOE TO ME!" just yet, lol.

[LolaLei]

Everything they've done borks the timeline with Varric's interrogation. Aint no way Cass wouldn't have known anything about what happened with Hawke and Meredith if she were working with Cullen.

I suppose they could handwave it by saying that they couldn't track Varric down for a few years? In the DA2 epilogue Varric says they all stayed with Hawke for sometime until they had to go their separate ways. Even with the pro-templar playthrough we now know that Hawke was run out of Kirkwall, so maybe they'll just say that Varric 'n' co were untraceable for a while, then they got word that Varric had returned/reappeared (he may have been laying low) and that's when Cass finally caught up with him. Of course, if Cullen was recruited by Cullen sooner than that then it doesn't explain why Cass wasn't aware of how the Meredith thing played out...

Ah, fucked if I know. I guess the long and short of it is that when Cullen was made KC in a pro-templar playthrough he should've mentioned in DAI as to why he was/wasn't at the 15 KC accord meeting and why he didn't speak up if he was there.

[R2s Muse]

I kinda got the impression, just from the way that Varric's interrogation lays the story out, that Cassandra only went to Cullen with her offer after hearing Varric's story. She and Leliana might have avoided the Templars at first because who would know how the Templars there would receive a bunch of envoys from the Divine at that point, and then after hearing Varric's tale she decided this Knight-Captain that kept coming up in the story (and even turned against Meredith in the end) was worth trying to approach for his own version of events.

Yeah, but it also doesn't make sense that no one ever asked him. He's been in Kirkwall the whole freaking time. And he works for the Divine. No one wanted to hear what actually happened with Meredith, until the Divine's right hand came asking questions three years later? 

 

Sigh. This is one of my fave rants, so I'll stop there. 

[Cerulione]

I kinda got the impression, just from the way that Varric's interrogation lays the story out, that Cassandra only went to Cullen with her offer after hearing Varric's story. She and Leliana might have avoided the Templars at first because who would know how the Templars there would receive a bunch of envoys from the Divine at that point, and then after hearing Varric's tale she decided this Knight-Captain that kept coming up in the story (and even turned against Meredith in the end) was worth trying to approach for his own version of events. Then, after talking to him, she maybe sees he's wavering and faltering in his loyalty to the Order but decides this man is too good to go waste on this pointless war, he's at least worth trying to salvage into working with her on this sorta-secret Inquisition project they're building as a fallback for Justinia's plans.

 

Hmmm I actually imagine the contrary. When a seeker comes, templars know that it's bad. Bad things happened in Kirkwall, it'll be weird to not meet the person leading the templar as the first source. I imagine that this meeting with Cullen impress Cass a lot. Then Cullen told her about Varric & Hawke.

 

EDIT: And I can imagine that Cass went to see Cullen the very same month of Kirkwall's rebelion. Not 2 years later. They stayed in contact.

[R2s Muse]

I suppose they could handwave it by saying that they couldn't track Varric down for a few years? In the DA2 epilogue Varric says they all stayed with Hawke for sometime until they had to go their separate ways. Even with the pro-templar playthrough we now know that Hawke was run out of Kirkwall, so maybe they'll just say that Varric 'n' co were untraceable for a while, then they got word that Varric had returned/reappeared (he may have been laying low) and that's when Cass finally caught up with him. Of course, if Cullen was recruited by Cullen sooner than that then it doesn't explain why Cass wasn't aware of how the Meredith thing played out...

Ah, fucked if I know. I guess the long and short of it is that when Cullen was made KC in a pro-templar playthrough he should've mentioned in DAI as to why he was/wasn't at the 15 KC accord meeting and why he didn't speak up if he was there.

Yeah... I had such hope they would clear that up. Instead, it got murkier. Sometimes Captain, sometimes Commander, but in Kirkwall the whole time either way. 

[Zarro-Morningstar]

So is it safe to say that a lot of us are feeling like the Bioware's story and logic slapped us in the face and ripped apart headcanons?

 

[MelissaGT]

I never killed Cullen... Now the IQ is another matter, lol! I believe Melissa was the one who posted those FF videos which got me hooked. I wasn't really all that sad though...

 

Hey don't blame it on me! I'm innocent! 

[R2s Muse]

Hmmm I actually imagine the contrary. When a seeker comes, templars know that it's bad. Bad things happened in Kirkwall, it'll be weird to not meet the person leading the templar as the first source. I imagine that this meeting with Cullen impress Cass a lot. Then Cullen told her about Varric & Hawke.

 

EDIT: And I can imagine that Cass went to see Cullen the very same month of Kirkwall's rebelion. Not 2 years later. They stayed in contact.

Then Cassandra would have known much more about what happened, then. She was clueless about Hawke's involvement. Thought she was behind it, til Varric told her otherwise. That Hawke had planned it all since Ferelden. *snort*

[Zarro-Morningstar]

Hey don't blame it on me! I'm innocent! 

Who me? Blaming you for getting me hooked on a new violinist...NOOOOOOOOO...