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The Official Cullen Discussion Thread v.3.0


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#115401
MelissaGT

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*snip*

 

 

Based on a scene from this fanfic by qunaributts

 

 

 

 

 

Oh my depressed now...  :(

 

So can I ask you guys? I'm going to start heavily playing Rhiannon, who was training to become a templar before the Concalve. She will become a templar when she gets the chance (that's her character personality - sacrifice for the greater good). I'm not sure if she'll start the romance before or after Perserverance, but Cullen will stay on lyrium (for now). I'm not going to re-hash my decision behind this, only to say that I want to see all possible facets of the romance. Would you guys be interested in me recording these scenes and sharing? I don't want to cause a big hullabaloo if I do and post them, so you tell me what you want!


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#115402
Cerulione

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Oh my depressed now...  :(

 

So can I ask you guys? I'm going to start heavily playing Rhiannon, who was training to become a templar before the Concalve. She will become a templar when she gets the chance (that's her character personality - sacrifice for the greater good). I'm not sure if she'll start the romance before or after Perserverance, but Cullen will stay on lyrium (for now). I'm not going to re-hash my decision behind this, only to say that I want to see all possible facets of the romance. Would you guys be interested in me recording these scenes and sharing? I don't want to cause a big hullabaloo if I do and post them, so you tell me what you want!

 

I do, I really do. It's a path I'll never do myself for reasons (well... I can't...) but I really want to know.



#115403
MelissaGT

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It makes me wonder if part of the problem with how DA2 was received is that Hawke comes across as a very British protagonist, as they completely embody the underdog, the everyman and the guy for whom every victory comes at the cost of some kind of defeat? Those kinds of characters are a staple in the UK, but not necessarily in Europe or over the pond, where most of the market for these games are?

 

 

Would you please be able to elaborate? 

 

I like DA:2 just fine, I just personally didn't find him/her memorable in any way (not like the Warden or IQ). Cerulion summed it up perfectly:

 

DA:O in a nutshell: The Blight must be stopped at all cost!

 

DA:I in a nutshell: Corypheus must be stopped at all cost!

 

DA2 in a nutshell: "I enjoy following you"  :P

 

When comparing protagonists, I would say Hawke comes across as the most "Americanized" of any of them. The US is all about the "everyman" hero (hello, Captain America?), and that seems to be Hawke to a "T." Hawke isn't given some noble calling, like the Warden. And he/she isn't out to save the world, like the IQ. In fact, you can even play Hawke as a downright anti-hero...that's very American. 

 

I think the problem with DA:2 isn't the hero - it's the set design recycling and very small stage. I think the story itself is great and serves it's purpose for setting up DA:I. I treat it like any #2 in a series - it's usually the weakest point, but it serves it's purpose. 


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#115404
Janic99

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a fan video I made of sweet dai men!


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#115405
Cerulione

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BSN is currently having a severe "laugh withdrawal" episode. There's funny threads keep popping up. We got now a Beard Support Thread & Darkspawn Support Thread (that actually a good commercial on why the Taint is Good For You).

 

:lol:



#115406
Cerulione

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*snip*

a fan video I made of sweet dai men!

 

Wow! Love it!


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#115407
Janic99

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Wow! Love it!

thank you :D



#115408
Sifr

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Would you please be able to elaborate? 

 

When comparing protagonists, I would say Hawke comes across as the most "Americanized" of any of them. The US is all about the "everyman" hero (hello, Captain America?), and that seems to be Hawke to a "T." Hawke isn't given some noble calling, like the Warden. And he/she isn't out to save the world, like the IQ. In fact, you can even play Hawke as a downright anti-hero...that's very American.

 

Well, if you look at British and American characters, while both can strive for wealth, fame and power, the difference is that overall, the American characters tend to suffer less pitfalls along the way, are overall more successful in all of their endeavours (however unrealistic they might be) and tend to end the story at a place where they are happier and more prosperous than when they started.

 

British characters meanwhile tend to have a lot of trouble getting to these goals (which tend to be markedly more low-key), suffer a lot of setbacks along the way that put them in dire straits and while they can end up happier and more prosperous than when they started, it tends to end in a much more bittersweet manner, with something perhaps lost along the way.

 

The everyman in the US is a lot more positive and successful, whereas the everyman in the UK tends to be life's perennial loser. If the everyman for you is Captain America, who becomes an supersoldier and awesome hero, then compare that to our everyman like say... Arthur Dent, who lost his home, planet, entire species and had all of that happen to him in his dressing gown.

 

Sure, Hawke can succeed in becoming Viscount at the end of DA2, but we see in Inquisition that they were rapidly foisted from power and forced to flee Kirkwall, while if you sided with the Mages, you basically lose your wealth and home entirely at the end of the game.

 

Meanwhile, the Inquisitor remains the leader of the Inquisition, a powerful NGO in it's own right, while the Warden (if alive) becomes Warden Commander for the next ten years, as well as potentially the King or Queen of Ferelden.

 

All of that to me, puts Hawke far more into the UK archetype of an everyman protagonist, more than the American one.

 

Even their potential deaths show this trend. The Warden can potentially sacrifice their life to save the entire world from the Archdemon, whereas Hawke's potential sacrifice, while noble, comes across as far less grander in scope and is not even down to them, but rather boils down to whoever the Inquisitor wants to keep alive.



#115409
CuriousArtemis

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I think the problem with DA:2 isn't the hero - it's the set design recycling and very small stage. I think the story itself is great and serves it's purpose for setting up DA:I. I treat it like any #2 in a series - it's usually the weakest point, but it serves it's purpose. 


Well DA2 is my favorite of the three :P I really don't think it's a good idea to start describing things as American or British cause seems we could cause offense when going down that path....

Anyway, to me DAI is the weakest game. Tis all a matter of opinion!
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#115410
MelissaGT

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Well, if you look at British and American characters, while both can strive for wealth, fame and power, the difference is that overall, the American characters tend to suffer less pitfalls along the way, are overall more successful in all of their endeavours (however unrealistic they might be) and tend to end the story at a place where they are happier and more prosperous than when they started.

 

British characters meanwhile tend to have a lot of trouble getting to these goals (which tend to be markedly more low-key), suffer a lot of setbacks along the way that put them in dire straits and while they can end up happier and more prosperous than when they started, it tends to end in a much more bittersweet manner, with something perhaps lost along the way.

 

The everyman in the US is a lot more positive and successful, whereas the everyman in the UK tends to be life's perennial loser. If the everyman for you is Captain America, who becomes an supersoldier and awesome hero, then compare that to our everyman like say... Arthur Dent, who lost his home, planet, entire species and had all of that happen to him in his dressing gown.

 

Sure, Hawke can succeed in becoming Viscount at the end of DA2, but we see in Inquisition that they were rapidly foisted from power and forced to flee Kirkwall, while if you sided with the Mages, you basically lose your wealth and home entirely at the end of the game.

 

Meanwhile, the Inquisitor remains the leader of the Inquisition, a powerful NGO in it's own right, while the Warden (if alive) becomes Warden Commander for the next ten years, as well as potentially the King or Queen of Ferelden.

 

All of that to me, puts Hawke far more into the UK archetype of an everyman protagonist, more than the American one.

 

Even their potential deaths show this trend. The Warden can potentially sacrifice their life to save the entire world from the Archdemon, whereas Hawke's potential sacrifice, while noble, comes across as far less grander in scope and is not even down to them, but rather boils down to whoever the Inquisitor wants to keep alive.

 

I think the big thing for me is that you can play Hawke as a downright selfish ******

 

I suppose the closest I could compare is Tony Stark? Captain America was probably a bad example since he's uber noble (and hawt if we're talking about Chris Evans...tee hee). I had a harder time playing the Warden or IQ that way since it doesn't seem to fit the grand scale of their endeavors. 

 

With your example of Arthur Dent - the scale he's on is massive. It's the galaxy. The scale with the IQ is all of Thedas. With the Warden it's Ferelden (and Thedas later if he/she were to fail). I just see more similarities there than with Hawke, who is on a smaller scale dealing with just Kirkwall.

 

I guess we can say that there's things about Hawke that would fit both hero "nationalities." 



#115411
Sifr

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Well DA2 is my favorite of the three :P I really don't think it's a good idea to start describing things as American or British cause seems we could cause offense when going down that path....

Anyway, to me DAI is the weakest game. Tis all a matter of opinion!

 

Yeah, I wasn't trying to say who has the better protagonists, both obviously have their pros and cons, just that Hawke seemed more the kind of character you'd find on UK telly than in the US. All I will say, somewhat self-deprecatingly, is that if that Hawke's detractors are correct in calling them a loser and a failure, then he's definitely a British character.

 

:lol:



#115412
riverbanks

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So can I ask you guys? (...) Would you guys be interested in me recording these scenes and sharing? I don't want to cause a big hullabaloo if I do and post them, so you tell me what you want!


Please do. These videos would be good for reference; I was just discussing this path on reddit this weekend and could have done with some videos of this version of the romance.

And yeah, don't feel like you have to justify your playthroughs, for whatever reason you may have to try this or that path. This fandom has a history of hive-minding that there is only one right way to play the games, but if any choice you can make was not a valid one, it wouldn't be in the game to begin with. ;)
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#115413
Sifr

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DA2 would be great as a story if not for the rushed 3d Act (and the way Anders was introduces, I sort of felt that the devs absolutely wanted me to date him for more drama)

 

Seconded, Bioware's had a real problem lately when it comes to 3rd Acts and endings.

 

After the great build up of the Qunari plot in Act 2 of DA2 and the growing sense of tension, the Mage/Templar nonsense of Act 3 ended up going by in such a rapid manner that you barely realised when the endgame started. ME3 had both a dull London level and the complete and utter inanity of the ending go without saying (even if the Extended Cut made it somewhat more tolerable). As for Inquisition, it was great until the endgame, which was so short and unsatisfying after the awesome Temple of Mythal sequence that came before it.

 

And I agree that the Anders introduction in DA2 was bad as well. While I didn't mind him being retconned as bisexual, it bothered me that his relationship with Karl is never mentioned with a female Hawke, which seemed like a major mistake, in addition to our being unable to rebuff his advances properly. You have the option to either flirt back, give a non-commital but somewhat flirty answer, or turn him down... in the most openly hostile manner possible.



#115414
Iceyone

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Lol, when I first arrived at Skyhold on this current pt, I wandered about talking to everyone, as I do, popped in to see Solas and his "special" chat was available, not thinking, I clicked it and we went to Haven. When I'd left I was still in the dark and stepping over rubble in the main hall lol  That elf seriously has some unknown powers, Solas casts: Skyhold Rennovation Spell!  :lol:  When I returned the whole place looked spiffy lol everyone had moved into their rooms etc lol I reloaded a previous save as I'm unsure if keeping the timing of that change would have bugged anything else but it was funny to witness lol.

 

Personally, I adore all three DA games, each for different reasons. I don't actually think there is a "weaker" game so far, they all have elements I love aswell as parts I don't. Personal hopes and expectations mean that there will never, ever be a universally "perfect" game imo.

I keep reminding myself that although DAI has it's problems, we forget sometimes because we have followed it for literally years, that it's officially little more than 10 weeks old. All BW games (and possibly other games) have vanilla issues, bugs, glitches, missing/cut contents etc that are addressed either by BW themselves in patches/DLC or modders. Perhaps when we get to the point as we did with the previous DA games where they officially say "no further content" then I might have more to say on what's not there, "crap" or odd but at this moment, I'm thoroughly enjoying the game I've got in what I think is it's most basic, vanilla form.

 

I ditched my lvl 17 Mage pt, I finally managed to get the Rift ingredients and typical, I didn't like it atall :( Tried a few different skill rotations but I just couldn't get into it so I deleted her and started another Archer Rogue ( she looked nice until the side profile, wow! I did something wierd to the bridge of her nose, kind of hoping that Cullen won't notice :lol: )


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#115415
Cerulione

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Please do. These videos would be good for reference; I was just discussing this path on reddit this weekend and could have done with some videos of this version of the romance.

And yeah, don't feel like you have to justify your playthroughs, for whatever reason you may have to try this or that path. This fandom has a history of hive-minding that there is only one right way to play the games, but if any choice you can make was not a valid one, it wouldn't be in the game to begin with. ;)

 

Totally agree. Sometimes, talking with fans of other characters help grounding a bit. They see things in different light :)



#115416
Sifr

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Lol, when I first arrived at Skyhold on this current pt, I wandered about talking to everyone, as I do, popped in to see Solas and his "special" chat was available, not thinking, I clicked it and we went to Haven. When I'd left I was still in the dark and stepping over rubble in the main hall lol  That elf seriously has some unknown powers, Solas casts: Skyhold Rennovation Spell!  :lol:  When I returned the whole place looked spiffy lol everyone had moved into their rooms etc lol I reloaded a previous save as I'm unsure if keeping the timing of that change would have bugged anything else but it was funny to witness lol.

 

In my first playthrough I didn't notice, but on my second Lavellan playthrough who was romancing Solas, I wondered;

 

Lavellan: How long did I sleep?

Solas: Ah, how are y-

Lavellan: No time for pleasantries, have questions. One, did you really use Fade-Tongue? And Two... just how long was I in a coma?


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#115417
Tishina

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I was thinking about the complaints (quite reasonable), that Cullen's lyrium addiction is dealt with a little too briefly (though we also first see him months after he stopped taking it and presumably was past the worst of the physical effects.) Is it possible that that was as much as they were willing to give us for now because they have more in mind and going further with it would "spoil" that (i.e. red lyrium and the real nature of lyrium and all the hints they've been giving us about them?)


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#115418
Tishina

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In my first playthrough I didn't notice, but on my second Lavellan playthrough who was romancing Solas, I wondered;

 

Lavellan: How long did I sleep?

Solas: Ah, how are y-

Lavellan: No time for pleasantries, have questions. One, did you really use Fade-Tongue? And Two... just how long was I in a coma?

:P  He indirectly admits that first if you tease him about it.



#115419
ThreeF

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Seconded, Bioware's had a real problem lately when it comes to 3rd Acts and endings.

 

After the great build up of the Qunari plot in Act 2 of DA2 and the growing sense of tension, the Mage/Templar nonsense of Act 3 ended up going by in such a rapid manner that you barely realised when the endgame started.

 

Yes, third act was very "what the hell is going on here" moment for me, everyone was going mad all of sudden in "i'm crazy because i can" manner.

 

 

And I agree that the Anders introduction in DA2 was bad as well. While I didn't mind him being retconned as bisexual, it bothered me that his relationship with Karl is never mentioned with a female Hawke, which seemed like a major mistake, in addition to our being unable to rebuff his advances properly. You have the option to either flirt back, give a non-commital but somewhat flirty answer, or turn him down... in the most openly hostile manner possible.

 

With Anders I didn't mind the bisexuality of it, but how you couldn't get out of the flirt option in a civil manner at the very beginning. Practically at the introduction Anders thinks you are the love of his life, the heck? That was huge plot give away to boot.

 

(The only person i would probably romance in that game if I could was Aveline, but alas. )

 

Lol, when I first arrived at Skyhold on this current pt, I wandered about talking to everyone, as I do, popped in to see Solas and his "special" chat was available, not thinking, I clicked it and we went to Haven. When I'd left I was still in the dark and stepping over rubble in the main hall lol  That elf seriously has some unknown powers, Solas casts: Skyhold Rennovation Spell!  :lol:  When I returned the whole place looked spiffy lol everyone had moved into their rooms etc lol I reloaded a previous save as I'm unsure if keeping the timing of that change would have bugged anything else but it was funny to witness lol.

 

I had the same reaction to it to, haha! (it's a coincidence because the Skyhold suppose to get its first fix after you re-enter the zone for the first time)



#115420
ThreeF

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I was thinking about the complaints (quite reasonable), that Cullen's lyrium addiction is dealt with a little too briefly (though we also first see him months after he stopped taking it and presumably was past the worst of the physical effects.) Is it possible that that was as much as they were willing to give us for now because they have more in mind and going further with it would "spoil" that (i.e. red lyrium and the real nature of lyrium and all the hints they've been giving us about them?)

 

Yes, there is a lot that can be done with that plot line



#115421
MelissaGT

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So I came across another interesting song listening to Spotify during work today. Seems to fit the overall theme of "what's at stake" for the IQ:

 

 

Lyrics:

Spoiler

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#115422
Sifr

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I was thinking about the complaints (quite reasonable), that Cullen's lyrium addiction is dealt with a little too briefly (though we also first see him months after he stopped taking it and presumably was past the worst of the physical effects.) Is it possible that that was as much as they were willing to give us for now because they have more in mind and going further with it would "spoil" that (i.e. red lyrium and the real nature of lyrium and all the hints they've been giving us about them?)

 

I noticed on my latest playthroughs, there a moment in Haven when at the war-table, he's asked something in banter, but only replies once they get his attention. In retrospect, this might have been an early clue that he was suffering from withdrawal symptoms, causing him to become distracted?


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#115423
Cerulione

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I was thinking about the complaints (quite reasonable), that Cullen's lyrium addiction is dealt with a little too briefly (though we also first see him months after he stopped taking it and presumably was past the worst of the physical effects.) Is it possible that that was as much as they were willing to give us for now because they have more in mind and going further with it would "spoil" that (i.e. red lyrium and the real nature of lyrium and all the hints they've been giving us about them?)

 

Hope so...



#115424
Cerulione

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I'll just leave this here: a piece of music that I came across in a forum a few years back while learning to play the Irish Whistle. The title's Berceuse de la pluie (Rain's Lullaby), interpreted on Celtic Harp & Irish Whistle

 

Reminds me a bit of Cullen.

 



#115425
timebean

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Yeah, I wasn't trying to say who has the better protagonists, both obviously have their pros and cons, just that Hawke seemed more the kind of character you'd find on UK telly than in the US. All I will say, somewhat self-deprecatingly, is that if that Hawke's detractors are correct in calling them a loser and a failure, then he's definitely a British character.

 

:lol:

 

Rocky Balboa!  Classic American underdog tale!  We love those kinda stories.  5 sequels worth!!!  (Although, I LOVE Arthur Dent as well) :)

 

The reason i personally did not like Hawke as a protaganist was less about the crap that happened to her and more about the fact that I could never get her to say something that didn't sound...rather heartless.  Funny enough, my Irish friend who also played the game said the exact same thing to me about it when I complained..."It's because she's British...". 

 

But I love the British snark! I can't quite put my finger on what it was I disliked so much about Hawke...she just seemed cold to me.  Her responses always seemed heartless. But would be interesting to see if the opinion differed across British versus non-British players.  An interesting idea...although I don't buy it is because we aren't uncomfortable with "everyman" tales. 

 

I'll stew over this today (as I friggen pipette all day) and see if I can give some intelligent, post-coffee insight to this...from an American underdog, as it were!  ;)


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