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[MelissaGT]

Rocky Balboa!  Classic American underdog tale!  We love those kinda stories.  5 sequels worth!!!  (Although, I LOVE Arthur Dent as well)

 

The reason i personally did not like Hawke as a protaganist was less about the crap that happened to her and more about the fact that I could never get her to say something that didn't sound...rather heartless.  Funny enough, my Irish friend who also played the game said the exact same thing to me about it when I complained..."It's because she's British...". 

 

But I love the British snark! I can't quite put my finger on what it was I disliked so much about Hawke...she just seemed cold to me.  Her responses always seemed heartless. But would be interesting to see if the opinion differed across British versus non-British players.  An interesting idea...although I don't buy it is because we aren't uncomfortable with "everyman" tales. 

 

I'll stew over this today (as I friggen pipette all day) and see if I can give some intelligent, post-coffee insight to this...from an American underdog, as it were! 

 

Good luck getting me to sit down to watch a Rocky movie in it's entirety. You'll have to tie me in a chair and tape my eyes open. Then again, I also despise The Goonies...apparently I'm evil. 

 

This is where I think Hawke seems more American than the other protags (granted our Warden literally has no voice, lol). As Americans, we sorta get lumped into the "brash/loud/rude" stereotype. I'll admit...I can be brash...and loud...and rude. And you can totally play Hawke that way.  

 

On the opposite end of the spectrum, I generally see British characters as more soft-spoken and polite. I guess that's because my exposure to British programming is BBC America and primarily Top Gear. Don't get me wrong, I'm a BIG fan of dry humor (and dry hard cider!). The guys on Top Gear sound very polite, even when they're being witty and making fun of each other/everybody/everything. Which is precisely why I almost pee myself every time I watch the show. You can also play Hawke this way.

 

But all this is clearly why I don't think we can call any of these protags "American" or "British." Because we all see them differently...and this sort of discussion can easily go to bad places if we aren't careful. Stereotypes are nasty things.

[wiccame]

Just my two bits on the Cullen talk on how they didn't dig deep enough into his lyrium addiction and his seemingly seamless change from devout templar.

I'm fine with how they handled both, I have gotten used to Bioware barely scratching the surface of issues. It used to annoy me so much but I don't seem to notice it too much now. 

I do think however his being fine romancing a mage should have been handled a bit differently, he did have a very strong view against mages up until now, it does feel a little weird for him to go from, 'mages have the power to light a city on fire, they cannot be our friends', to 'What I fear of magic I see none of that in you'.  it just seemed too easy a transition for him.

But the thing that I do have a problem with and I really think could have done better, is that there didn't seem to be ANY friendship growth, not that I could see. You flirt with him a few times, no friendly banter as such and suddenly you're both feeling something for one another. At least if he was a companion you could head canon away that you spend so much time together it just happened naturally, but as an advisor, we barely get to spend time with him and when we do it's usually on a buisness level or romance level, there doesn't seem to be any middle ground with him. I think not having as a companion has really left us short of  all that bonding.

[Sifr]

 

But I love the British snark! I can't quite put my finger on what it was I disliked so much about Hawke...she just seemed cold to me.  Her responses always seemed heartless. But would be interesting to see if the opinion differed across British versus non-British players.  An interesting idea...although I don't buy it is because we aren't uncomfortable with "everyman" tales.

 

Nah, I know what you mean, I found that female Hawke had more a cool dry wit than male Hawke's more obviously snarky tone? It's why I see them as the same character, but at the same time, completely different people due to how Nick Boulton and Jo Wyatt chose to portray them?

 

It's kind of like the difference between Male Shep and FemShep, where Mark Meer's BroShep tends to joke more on his downtime but prefers to remain stoic and professional when on the job, whereas Jennifer Hale gives FemShep far more levity overall, but is even more tough as nails than BroShep when the situation calls for it.

 

And I wasn't saying that those in the US don't like everyman stories, just that the different cultures make our respective everyman's a tad different?

 

(Dodgeball is another great American everyman movie, for instance)

[Cerulione]

Just my two bits on the Cullen talk on how they didn't dig deep enough into his lyrium addiction and his seemingly seamless change from devout templar.

I'm fine with how they handled both, I have gotten used to Bioware barely scratching the surface of issues. It used to annoy me so much but I don't seem to notice it too much now. 

I do think however his being fine romancing a mage should have been handled a bit differently, he did have a very strong view against mages up until now, it does feel a little weird for him to go from, 'mages have the power to light a city on fire, they cannot be our friends', to 'What I fear of magic I see none of that in you'.  it just seemed too easy a transition for him.

But the thing that I do have a problem with and I really think could have done better, is that there didn't seem to be ANY friendship growth, not that I could see. You flirt with him a few times, no friendly banter as such and suddenly you're both feeling something for one another. At least if he was a companion you could head canon away that you spend so much time together it just happened naturally, but as an advisor, we barely get to spend time with him and when we do it's usually on a buisness level or romance level, there doesn't seem to be any middle ground with him. I think not having as a companion has really left us short of  all that bonding.

 

That's why I like to romance him Post-Perseverance

 

Maybe BW just say, "Aaaaaaah The Cullenites had already get their own headcannons to death, better let them write their own stories with Noodles!"

 

Just Kidding

[wiccame]

That's why I like to romance him Post-Perseverance

 

Maybe BW just say, "Aaaaaaah The Cullenites had already get their own headcannons to death, better let them write their own stories with Noodles!"

 

Just Kidding

lol you're probably right about that!

 

Even perseverance was too business like though. If I'm not romancing him it still feels like I am just his boss supporting him, I don't feel like any deep and meaningful friendship is being made. Maybe a bit of respect from him but that's about as far as it goes. 

[Cerulione]

lol you're probably right about that!

 

Even perseverance was too business like though. If I'm not romancing him it still feels like I am just his boss supporting him, I don't feel like any deep and meaningful friendship is being made. Maybe a bit of respect from him but that's about as far as it goes. 

 

Even when I'm romancing him I still get difficulties in imagining how the relationship can go on well on workplace, knowing that I'm his boss...

[wiccame]

Even when I'm romancing him I still get difficulties in imagining how the relationship can go on well on workplace, knowing that I'm his boss...

lol but you're boss to everyone! If we stopped to think of how that will affect things we wouldn't get anything

[Cerulione]

lol but you're boss to everyone! If we stopped to think of how that will affect things we wouldn't get anything

 

Weirdly, even if The Warden was also the boss of the band of misfits, I can feel much better the "friendship arcs" building. Lots of convo with everyone. Tons of long convo... And maybe the size matters, we were the Warden, leader of max 10 people. Much more intimacy.

 

In the Inquisition, I just feel that my Inky's quite lonely...

[MelissaGT]

Even when I'm romancing him I still get difficulties in imagining how the relationship can go on well on workplace, knowing that I'm his boss...

 

You are his superior, but I think the setting/situation would be a bit different than what we normally picture. 

[MelissaGT]

lol but you're boss to everyone! If we stopped to think of how that will affect things we wouldn't get anything

 

This is why I was so upset that Janeway got nobody when everybody else was hooking up in "Voyager." She got the holodeck guy... 

[wiccame]

Weirdly, even if The Warden was also the boss of the band of misfits, I can feel much better the "friendship arcs" building. Lots of convo with everyone. Tons of long convo... And maybe the size matters, we were the Warden, leader of max 10 people. Much more intimacy.

 

In the Inquisition, I just feel that my Inky's quite lonely...

yes exactly, plus conversations mattered with the warden, you gained approval so you know you are building something at least. In inqusition a lot of the chatter we do have with anyone doesn't gain any approval. It's just empty natter.

[Tishina]

Just my two bits on the Cullen talk on how they didn't dig deep enough into his lyrium addiction and his seemingly seamless change from devout templar.

I'm fine with how they handled both, I have gotten used to Bioware barely scratching the surface of issues. It used to annoy me so much but I don't seem to notice it too much now. 

I do think however his being fine romancing a mage should have been handled a bit differently, he did have a very strong view against mages up until now, it does feel a little weird for him to go from, 'mages have the power to light a city on fire, they cannot be our friends', to 'What I fear of magic I see none of that in you'.  it just seemed too easy a transition for him.

But the thing that I do have a problem with and I really think could have done better, is that there didn't seem to be ANY friendship growth, not that I could see. You flirt with him a few times, no friendly banter as such and suddenly you're both feeling something for one another. At least if he was a companion you could head canon away that you spend so much time together it just happened naturally, but as an advisor, we barely get to spend time with him and when we do it's usually on a buisness level or romance level, there doesn't seem to be any middle ground with him. I think not having as a companion has really left us short of  all that bonding.

I actually am a little mind-boggled by how chill he is with romancing a non-Andrastrian Creator-worshipping Dalish elf. He may be disillusioned with the Chantry, but I don't get the sense that his faith has been shaken, and I'm surprised it doesn't actually come up. For me, you can bring up the mage thing several times, so it is addressed, and it makes some sense based on how he viewed them in DAO (if you played a mage). I think the interactions are a bit sparse for all companions/advisors; I can just as easily imagine spending time with him playing chess or listening to Varric tell stories in the evening while in Skyhold as I can imagine the same things in the field where behavior is generally more business-like in my own imagination---having to stand watch at night, essentially on war footing in hostile territory, plus having to help with things around camp and maintaining your own gear, stuff that's done by others in Skyhold.

 

I do think there's the potential, if you choose to pass up some flirts, to have a friendly relationship with him before the romance starts, but he's pretty business-like outside of a romance with only one or two exceptions. I've passed up all the flirts with him since the first one on my Dalish who's romancing Solas, including that first one at Skyhold, but I'm still getting options to flirt with him. And you can actually ask him a lot of fairly personal questions along the way. I think having those discussions outside of cutscenes tends to make people forget them. And I obviously think they could have included more since that's what I'm filling in for myself with my fanfic, but I find myself really reluctant to put too many words in his mouth about himself, so it feels too one-sided to me.

[MelissaGT]

Weirdly, even if The Warden was also the boss of the band of misfits, I can feel much better the "friendship arcs" building. Lots of convo with everyone. Tons of long convo... And maybe the size matters, we were the Warden, leader of max 10 people. Much more intimacy.

 

In the Inquisition, I just feel that my Inky's quite lonely...

 

I guess I'm easy - I can see the friendship arcs developing in DA:I just as well. Even if they aren't played out on screen I can easily fill in the gaps in my head.

 

DA:O was just as abrupt, at least as far as Alistair is concerned. You go from not knowing him at all to talking about biz...and then "Have I ever told you how handsome you are?" *Boom* - relationship. You can literally say this to him while still at Flemeth's hut if you're so inclined. 

[wiccame]

This is why I was so upset that Janeway got nobody when everybody else was hooking up in "Voyager." She got the holodeck guy... 

IKR I really wanted her and Chakotay to get together. They were good together. When you're in a situation like that I say damn the rules, if you stick to the no fraternization in situations like that you're going to end up alone and being in a situation like that you need someone just to hug you and take you away from all the madness.  

[Cerulione]

I guess I'm easy - I can see the friendship arcs developing in DA:I just as well. Even if they aren't played out on screen I can easily fill in the gaps in my head.

 

DA:O was just as abrupt, at least as far as Alistair is concerned. You go from not knowing him at all to talking about biz...and then "Have I ever told you how handsome you are?" *Boom* - relationship. You can literally say this to him while still at Flemeth's hut if you're so inclined. 

 

Alistair's very easy going. I got much more difficulties with Sten & Morrigan. But managed all the same at the end. That's friendship...

[MelissaGT]

yes exactly, plus conversations mattered with the warden, you gained approval so you know you are building something at least. In inqusition a lot of the chatter we do have with anyone doesn't gain any approval. It's just empty natter.

 

I absolutely LOVE that there's no approval in DA:I! You never know how someone is going to react, and you can never be too sure how much they like you since you can't really track it. 

 

With DA:O if you made someone mad, you could just give them a gift to make it all better. Don't like that -30 approval from Alistair for killing Isolde? Give him a stuffed griffon = all better! 

 

I will say DA:2 had it totally right with being able to have the rival path. This dynamic beats both DA:O and DA:I.

[MelissaGT]

IKR I really wanted her and Chakotay to get together. They were good together. When you're in a situation like that I say damn the rules, if you stick to the no fraternization in situations like that you're going to end up alone and being in a situation like that you need someone just to hug you and take you away from all the madness.  

 

OMG I KNOW! I hated that he ended up with 7 of 9... 

[Cerulione]

Somehow I'm relieved in having no Approval System in DA:I. Never made a decision in which Cullen's happy. He really got unhappy angry comments at the end of each major quest...

 

It's more realistic if he got any however...

[Sifr]

This is why I was so upset that Janeway got nobody when everybody else was hooking up in "Voyager." She got the holodeck guy... 

 

She also hooked up with the guy in "Counterpoint" who was actually a triple agent from the race that were waging a genocidal war against telepaths... although if you subscribe to the belief that Janeway might indeed be evil/crazy, this makes a lot of sense.

 

Oh, and the guy who jokes that his species doesn't actually have a traditional male gender in "Workforce", which also amazes me that they accidentally created a transgender character for a throwaway joke (given the long history of Trek seeming to want LGBT issues to stay in the closet).

[MelissaGT]

Alistair's very easy going. I got much more difficulties with Sten & Morrigan. But managed all the same at the end. That's friendship...

 

I'll agree on Sten and Morrigan. 

 

I just have a hard time getting past the approval ratings/game mechanics. All you had to do to advance the "friendship" was give them gifts after doing whatever you did that ticked them off.

 

I suppose I should try to play the game without using gifts...that might make it more realistic. 

[Tishina]

yes exactly, plus conversations mattered with the warden, you gained approval so you know you are building something at least. In inqusition a lot of the chatter we do have with anyone doesn't gain any approval. It's just empty natter.

And some of it has consequences we can't judge. I'm reluctant to even talk to Viv because it's so vague how the Divine is chosen because I don't want to lose approval by disagreeing with her. But if I'm diplomatic (i.e. lie) in my answers with her to avoid that, am I'm adding points to whatever system they have that indicates you support one candidate over another?

[wiccame]

I absolutely LOVE that there's no approval in DA:I! You never know how someone is going to react, and you can never be too sure how much they like you since you can't really track it. 

 

With DA:O if you made someone mad, you could just give them a gift to make it all better. Don't like that -30 approval from Alistair for killing Isolde? Give him a stuffed griffon = all better! 

 

I will say DA:2 had it totally right with being able to have the rival path. This dynamic beats both DA:O and DA:I.

Oh don't get me wrong, I am so glad to be away from the here's a gift, like me please.  But the conversations in DAI don't seem to be good for anything except information gathering, especially at the beginning (looking at you Varric). You are basically thrown approval from Solas in nearly every convo though. So I don't understand how it is really supposed to work truth be told. 

Even if we got a little thumbs up when we hit something our companion liked would be something, at least we'd know we were making some progress.

[Cerulione]

Oh don't get me wrong, I am so glad to be away from the here's a gift, like me please.  But the conversations in DAI don't seem to be good for anything except information gathering, especially at the beginning (looking at you Varric). You are basically thrown approval from Solas in nearly every convo though. So I don't understand how it is really supposed to work truth be told. 

Even if we got a little thumbs up when we hit something our companion liked would be something, at least we'd know we were making some progress.

 

Hehe, that tiny approval with Solas is basically needed when I'm going to make decisions he'll loath later in-game... (drinking from the well, forgive the wardens, etc)

[wiccame]

And some of it has consequences we can't judge. I'm reluctant to even talk to Viv because it's so vague how the Divine is chosen because I don't want to lose approval by disagreeing with her. But if I'm diplomatic (i.e. lie) in my answers with her to avoid that, am I'm adding points to whatever system they have that indicates you support one candidate over another?

This too. How are we supposed to make decisions like that if we have no idea what we are saying? I know they wanted it a little more organic but that's just leaving us completely in the dark until much later and ooops guess I shouldn't have said that hours ago.

[Ryriena]

IKR I really wanted her and Chakotay to get together. They were good together. When you're in a situation like that I say damn the rules, if you stick to the no fraternization in situations like that you're going to end up alone and being in a situation like that you need someone just to hug you and take you away from all the madness.

Yes thank you I hated that he ended up with seven of nine which did not make a lot of sense but still a nice show.