138860 réponses à ce sujet

[Cerulione]

Oh. That. Well, that's all been addressed. Alistair did use lyrium. He was wrong in DA:O. DG has said that you definitely need it to have templar abilities, and Alistair himself says he started taking it *again* in the comics. Dunno I guess that just seems settled to me.

Of course... Seekers using *cough* templar specialization is, um, different. Yeah.

 
 
LOL But most of those are the exact same question.

 

Hehe I still think that Cullen will survive definitely well a Qunari-based-story DLC for example, but will be there in small capacity as Advisor. But he could've got bad stuffs thrown on him by the Dev if ever they make a DLC about LyriuM...

 

So Alistair's wrong then? Nah I don't read the comics so... It's very very disconcerting since he did say he didn't take it! Argh!!!

 

EDIT: Too many retcon makes my head pounding...

[riverbanks]

2. Cullen definitely I'm pretty sure Cullen has the Templar spec and can use at least some of the abilities: (EDIT: Wait, or maybe not; I guess there's a decent chance I had Cassandra with me on that run. BLARG NM)

 

Cassandra can cast Blessed Blades on other people, but Cullen does have the Templar spec, and will use Templar abilities on himself and others. I've run through the Temple without Cassandra, and Cullen was still casting Blessed Blades on the party himself.

[R2s Muse]

Hehe I still think that Cullen will survive definitely well a Qunari-based-story DLC for example, but will be there in small capacity as Advisor. But he could've got bad stuffs thrown on him by the Dev if ever they make a DLC about LyriuM...
 
So Alistair's wrong then? Nah I don't read the comics so... It's very very disconcerting since he did say he didn't take it! Argh!!!
 
EDIT: Too many retcon makes my head pounding...

Perhaps this will help?

http://swooping-is-b...om/1286233.html
David Gaider Interview

"TUK: The Templar abilities, are they--despite the Chantry's protestations--a form of magic?

DG: I would say that they are magic, they derive from lyrium, which is magic. The tricky thing there is that the Chantry is awfully hypocritical when it comes to magic, in that there are sorts of magic that they will use. Actually I should take that back, it's not necessarily that they're hypocritical, they don't have anything against magic itself. Magic can be useful, they know the mages are useful. It's the elements of possession and blood magic, all the forbidden magic where things get really dicey. Even if Templar magic was recognized as spellcasting, it's not innate to the Templars, if they just stopped taking lyrium eventually they would lose the ability. Although as Alistair proves, they can use the ability for a long time afterwards. I think part of that was just the requirements of gameplay, for us to have a specialization as well, so some of that story doesn't quite match up with the gameplay, and I think eventually we'd like to work the lyrium requirement back into the gameplay as well. Regardless the magic the Templars use doesn't involve mind control, it's not forbidden magic, there's nothing about it--especially since it can only against mages--there's nothing about it that would make the Chantry step in and go "Wow, that's bad." But then we're talking about a Chantry that also has phylacteries in every Circle, which is a type of blood magic, so there's definitely an element of hypocrisy there."

[Cantina]

Wait...Wait...hold on...

 

I am confused.

 

From what Cullen says is: after The Chantry feels you are ready to be a Templar, you takae your vigal, vows and are given lyrium.

 

In DAO Al, says: He trained, but never took the vigil or vows and was not given lyrium.

 

So what? Al did take the vigil and vows and was given lyrium?

[Cerulione]

Cassandra can cast Blessed Blades on other people, but Cullen does have the Templar spec, and will use Templar abilities on himself and others. I've run through the Temple without Cassandra, and Cullen was still casting Blessed Blades on the party himself.

Perhaps this will help?

http://swooping-is-b...om/1286233.html
David Gaider Interview

"TUK: The Templar abilities, are they--despite the Chantry's protestations--a form of magic?

DG: I would say that they are magic, they derive from lyrium, which is magic. The tricky thing there is that the Chantry is awfully hypocritical when it comes to magic, in that there are sorts of magic that they will use. Actually I should take that back, it's not necessarily that they're hypocritical, they don't have anything against magic itself. Magic can be useful, they know the mages are useful. It's the elements of possession and blood magic, all the forbidden magic where things get really dicey. Even if Templar magic was recognized as spellcasting, it's not innate to the Templars, if they just stopped taking lyrium eventually they would lose the ability. Although as Alistair proves, they can use the ability for a long time afterwards. I think part of that was just the requirements of gameplay, for us to have a specialization as well, so some of that story doesn't quite match up with the gameplay, and I think eventually we'd like to work the lyrium requirement back into the gameplay as well. Regardless the magic the Templars use doesn't involve mind control, it's not forbidden magic, there's nothing about it--especially since it can only against mages--there's nothing about it that would make the Chantry step in and go "Wow, that's bad." But then we're talking about a Chantry that also has phylacteries in every Circle, which is a type of blood magic, so there's definitely an element of hypocrisy there."

 

Wow thanks gals, that surely clear up lots of confusions.

 

I'm out of like, but Like your posts really

[Tarlonniel]

My Amell never officially made Cullen run away - she was attracted to him and aware of his attraction, but didn't want to put either of them at risk by going beyond friendly conversation. Whenever I get to that scene in Origins, though, there is definitely a lot of reloading going on to see all the reactions before I settle on my "canon" one. Greg Ellis just nails everything so beautifully 

[R2s Muse]

Wait...Wait...hold on...
 
I am confused.
 
From what Cullen says is: after The Chantry feels you are ready to be a Templar, you takae your vigal, vows and are given lyrium.
 
In DAO Al, says: He trained, but never took the vigil or vows and was not given lyrium.
 
So what? Al did take the vigil and vows and was given lyrium?

Yeah, that's what nine was saying. That part doesn't quite make sense.

TBH, if you actually need lyrium to use your abilities, it doesn't make sense to me that you wouldn't get lyrium while you're training. Unless you don't actually use or practice any of your templar abilities until after you take your vows.

[riverbanks]

So Alistair's wrong then? Nah I don't read the comics so... It's very very disconcerting since he did say he didn't take it! Argh!!!

 

Gaider did say something very interesting about this on a post in his now defunct tumblr (I'm not finding a reblog of it anywhere, though, so forgive my lack of receipts): characters are not always completely honest with the player, even if we tend assume they are.

 

Of course we know this is absolutely a retcon, but I found the concept interesting. We pretty much assume everything the characters say is always true, and don't even consider the possibility that just as we're not always completely honest with them, they sometimes are less than honest with us too. That's the whole concept behind Blackwall and Solas, even.

 

So, abstracting the retcon out of it, in-universe maybe Alistair just wasn't telling the Warden the whole truth about his past, for whatever reason he may have had. The Templar conversation is one you can have very early in the game, as early as the first time you step in Lothering, so maybe he just wasn't that comfortable telling the Warden everything at that point / hadn't built enough trust in them yet, and colored his story a little rosier than reality.

[Zarro-Morningstar]

Going back through all these posts and seeing all the retconning and how jumbled/confusing everything is, well, don't you guys just LOVE retconning and them saying Alistair was lying. I know I do. 

[Cantina]

Yeah, that's what nine was saying. That part doesn't quite make sense.

TBH, if you actually need lyrium to use your abilities, it doesn't make sense to me that you wouldn't get lyrium while you're training. Unless you don't actually use or practice any of your templar abilities until after you take your vows.

 

Ugh!

 

Right. Because wouldn't you need to train to use your abilities or understand the process of those abilities. 

 

DG taking the Marvel/DC approach in this is probably not thee best idea.

 

Honestly I thought Al's Templar thing was fine the way it was in DAO. I don't see the need to poke the tiger (so-to=speak).

[Zarro-Morningstar]

Gaider did say something very interesting about this on a post in his now defunct tumblr (I'm not finding a reblog of it anywhere, though, so forgive my lack of receipts): characters are not always completely honest with the player, even if we tend assume they are.

 

Of course we know this is absolutely a retcon, but I found the concept interesting. We pretty much assume everything the characters say is always true, and don't even consider the possibility that just as we're not always completely honest with them, they sometimes are less than honest with us too. That's the whole concept behind Blackwall and Solas, even.

 

So, abstracting the retcon out of it, in-universe maybe Alistair just wasn't telling the Warden the whole truth about his past, for whatever reason he may have had. The Templar conversation is one you can have very early in the game, as early as the first time you step in Lothering, so maybe he just wasn't that comfortable telling the Warden everything at that point / hadn't built enough trust in them yet, and colored his story a little rosier than reality.

Except that would not work if the Warden had that conversation after she and Alistair got frisky and risky in that tent. I don't really see how that could work when he loves the warden at that point and is pretty committed to her...so...yeah, lol.

[R2s Muse]

Gaider did say something very interesting about this on a post in his now defunct tumblr (I'm not finding a reblog of it anywhere, though, so forgive my lack of receipts): characters are not always completely honest with the player, even if we tend assume they are.
 
Of course we know this is absolutely a retcon, but I found the concept interesting. We pretty much assume everything the characters say is always true, and don't even consider the possibility that just as we're not always completely honest with them, they sometimes are less than honest with us too. That's the whole concept behind Blackwall and Solas, even.
 
So, abstracting the retcon out of it, in-universe maybe Alistair just wasn't telling the Warden the whole truth about his past, for whatever reason he may have had. The Templar conversation is one you can have very early in the game, as early as the first time you step in Lothering, so maybe he just wasn't that comfortable telling the Warden everything at that point / hadn't built enough trust in them yet, and colored his story a little rosier than reality.

He also only gets like one line to explain it, as most characters do. For all we know, he says he didn't take it because he didn't take the official philter you get with your vows, but maybe they fed it to him some other way during training. :shrug:

"So what I said was true... from a certain point of view." *wise jedi eyebrow waggle*

[Cerulione]

Gaider did say something very interesting about this on a post in his now defunct tumblr (I'm not finding a reblog of it anywhere, though, so forgive my lack of receipts): characters are not always completely honest with the player, even if we tend assume they are.

 

Of course we know this is absolutely a retcon, but I found the concept interesting. We pretty much assume everything the characters say is always true, and don't even consider the possibility that just as we're not always completely honest with them, they sometimes are less than honest with us too. That's the whole concept behind Blackwall and Solas, even.

 

So, abstracting the retcon out of it, in-universe maybe Alistair just wasn't telling the Warden the whole truth about his past, for whatever reason he may have had. The Templar conversation is one you can have very early in the game, as early as the first time you step in Lothering, so maybe he just wasn't that comfortable telling the Warden everything at that point / hadn't built enough trust in them yet, and colored his story a little rosier than reality.

 

That makes sense. Since the conflicting element here is Alistair's confirmation that:

1. He's not hooked to Lyrium

2. He doesn't need Lyrium to perform Templar Ability

 

If he did lie about this, this put the whole Lyrium thing in a much darker note IMO, either that or Alistair's own character. We do know that he does not want to disclose what's making him uncomfortable, like his true identity being Maric's son. He might not want to lie deliberately just for lying, but maybe hiding some horrible truth... like what Lyrium can do to a person...?

 

[R2s Muse]

Hey can someone remind me: how can I just freakin' buy crafting materials? Isn't there a perk or something for that so I can just go to a store somewhere or something??  I'm kinda sick of not having enough of things for the higher tiered schematics. *non-crafter pouting* 

[Cantina]

Hey can someone remind me: how can I just freakin' buy crafting materials? Isn't there a perk or something for that so I can just go to a store somewhere or something??  I'm kinda sick of not having enough of things for the higher tiered schematics. *non-crafter pouting* 

 

 

Well it depends  on what you are seeking.

 

AFAIK:

 

T1 and T2 mats can only be purchased from certain vendors. T3 and T4 materials need to be collected.

 

Any idea what you are looking for, hun?

.

Could point you in a direction to help

[Cerulione]

Hey can someone remind me: how can I just freakin' buy crafting materials? Isn't there a perk or something for that so I can just go to a store somewhere or something??  I'm kinda sick of not having enough of things for the higher tiered schematics. *non-crafter pouting* 

 

What crafting materials are you looking for?

 

You can buy silk, cotton etc from a vendor in Val royaux. Some T2s from merchants in Skyhold. T3 & T4 I never saw them sold...

[riverbanks]

So I guess this is apropos of this discussion. Those who haven't played a warrior in DAI yet, or haven't done the Way of the Templar spec quest, may not haven seen this codex entry describing in detail how a Templar is initiated on lyrium (or at least the account of one initiation, we don't know that they're always this skin-crawling terrifying):

 

Spoiler

 

 

 

 

Nightmares forever imagining cuties like Cullen, Alistair, Carver, Barris, Keran, Lysette and Belinda going through this stuff.

 

...and grateful my own Templar Inquisitor didn't have to go this, too.

[timebean]

So I guess this is apropos of this discussion. Those who haven't played a warrior in DAI yet, or haven't done the Way of the Templar spec quest, may not haven seen this horripilant codex entry describing in detail how a Templar is initiated on lyrium (or at least the account of one initiation, we don't know that they're always this skin-crawling terrifying):

 

Spoiler

 

 

 

 

Nightmares forever imagining cuties like Cullen, Alistair, Carver, Barris, Keran, Lysette and Belinda going through this stuff.

 

...and grateful my own Templar Inquisitor didn't have to go this, too.

Gah!  That is horrific! I never saw this one, so thanks for posting.

Poor Cully!

[Cerulione]

So I guess this is apropos of this discussion. Those who haven't played a warrior in DAI yet, or haven't done the Way of the Templar spec quest, may not haven seen this horripilant codex entry describing in detail how a Templar is initiated on lyrium (or at least the account of one initiation, we don't know that they're always this skin-crawling terrifying):

 

Spoiler

 

 

 

 

Nightmares forever imagining cuties like Cullen, Alistair, Carver, Barris, Keran, Lysette and Belinda going through this stuff.

 

...and grateful my own Templar Inquisitor didn't have to go this, too.

 

Ouch... ouch ouch ouch...

 

...I'm off giving Cullen a hug... And then Alistair...  And I made my little brother a TEMPLAR!!!

And don't forget Evangeline... Ouch...

 

Carver's pulling the shorter end of the stick, either that or the Taint. Ouch...

 

One thing: Cass is right, none of the Templars except Cullen (that we got to see) show their suffering. While mages' suffering is quite well explored, Templar's not very much...

[Cantina]

So I guess this is apropos of this discussion. Those who haven't played a warrior in DAI yet, or haven't done the Way of the Templar spec quest, may not haven seen this horripilant codex entry describing in detail how a Templar is initiated on lyrium (or at least the account of one initiation, we don't know that they're always this skin-crawling terrifying):

 

Spoiler

 

 

 

 

Well, sh!t

 

Sounds like taking The Chantry's deal to be a Templar is no better then taking a demon's offer.

 

Thank you for posting this!

 

I for one have not seen this since, I play a Mage.

[JessicaThrasher]

You posted that just before the 5K celebration, so I think we missed that last night, lol.

 

I had two mages. One was a horrible flirt anyway and couldn't resist.    The other was kind-hearted even though she was well aware of his feelings.

Mine was the second one. She was aware, but was shy. Her reaction was "Oh, that's flattering. It couldn't hurt to talk."

[Tishina]

So I guess this is apropos of this discussion. Those who haven't played a warrior in DAI yet, or haven't done the Way of the Templar spec quest, may not haven seen this horripilant codex entry describing in detail how a Templar is initiated on lyrium (or at least the account of one initiation, we don't know that they're always this skin-crawling terrifying):

 

Spoiler

 

 

 

 

Nightmares forever imagining cuties like Cullen, Alistair, Carver, Barris, Keran, Lysette and Belinda going through this stuff.

 

...and grateful my own Templar Inquisitor didn't have to go this, too.

Yeah, I read that one. I'd always planned Derzka to be a Champion, but I'd considered making Zhenya a Templar. That entry made me think twice about it, lol...

[JessicaThrasher]

My Amell never officially made Cullen run away - she was attracted to him and aware of his attraction, but didn't want to put either of them at risk by going beyond friendly conversation. Whenever I get to that scene in Origins, though, there is definitely a lot of reloading going on to see all the reactions before I settle on my "canon" one. Greg Ellis just nails everything so beautifully 

He does. It is amusing to watch him run away, but I can't do it. XD

[MelissaGT]

 

Does anyone notice (esp. who had played Templar Spec) if Cullen's in Temple of Dumat use any Templar specialization?

 

 

I've seen Cullen cast Blessed Blades but not all of the abilities. 

 

Gaider did say something very interesting about this on a post in his now defunct tumblr (I'm not finding a reblog of it anywhere, though, so forgive my lack of receipts): characters are not always completely honest with the player, even if we tend assume they are.

 

Of course we know this is absolutely a retcon, but I found the concept interesting. We pretty much assume everything the characters say is always true, and don't even consider the possibility that just as we're not always completely honest with them, they sometimes are less than honest with us too. That's the whole concept behind Blackwall and Solas, even.

 

So, abstracting the retcon out of it, in-universe maybe Alistair just wasn't telling the Warden the whole truth about his past, for whatever reason he may have had. The Templar conversation is one you can have very early in the game, as early as the first time you step in Lothering, so maybe he just wasn't that comfortable telling the Warden everything at that point / hadn't built enough trust in them yet, and colored his story a little rosier than reality.

 

I did find this on the Wiki:

 

• Effects of lyrium addiction were intended to be implemented in Dragon Age: Origins for mage and templar companions and the use of lyrium potions would have diminishing returns. However, this was ultimately dropped because most characters would need to drink lyrium potions to remain effective, guaranteeing addiction, and the developers couldn't find a way to implement addictions in a way that was neither meaningless nor excessively punishing.^[8]

^{http://dragonage.wikia.com/wiki/Lyrium}

 

Thought that was interesting. 

[Tishina]

Ouch... ouch ouch ouch...

 

...I'm off giving Cullen a hug... And then Alistair...  And I made my little brother a TEMPLAR!!!

And don't forget Evangeline... Ouch...

 

Carver's pulling the shorter end of the stick, either that or the Taint. Ouch...

 

One thing: Cass is right, none of the Templars except Cullen (that we got to see) show their suffering. While mages' suffering is quite well explored, Templar's not very much...

There is one difference. Mages don't have a choice. Templars do, even if they aren't given "full disclosure." So I feel for them, but I don't think it's equivalent.