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[Hellion Rex]

Also, any chane that someone here has read the DA books? I haven't. but my backstory fic have a conversation that refers to events most likely covered in one of the books.

I have read all the novels multiple times over. What do you wish to know?

[Hellion Rex]

I never actually played Witch Hunt and didn't pay a lot of attention to Anders in Awakening, honestly. I was mostly talking about mages being confined and unable to leave and being watched minutely, which the main game of DAO suggests. Walking outside the tower for an hour or two to see the sun while Templars glower at you isn't freedom to leave. I think we were actually talking about very different things when we were talking about Kinloch being relaxed. It's obvious from Kinloch and Kirkwall that Templars have had very little idea at times of what mages were actually studying in the way of magic, especially if it was academic rather than actually performing magic, so in that sense, I agree with you (that was one of Greagoir's failings). However, when was it said that Irving encouraged the study of blood magic?

 

When I talk about relaxed, I'm talking about ordinary things like being able to leave the tower and have relationships (at least ones that don't have to be hidden because at best, they'll be used against you if not actively forbidden.) Much less having children. Wilhelm was a DLC and made no sense in context of the rest of what they said about mages in DAO's main game, unless he was being protected by Marric and Cailan until his death.

In regards to Kinloch, it's apparently due to Anders' multiple escapes attempts that the Circle mages of that specific tower were more restricted.

[riverbanks]

Why exactly is Cullen SOOOOO amused about the Chantry being in an uproar about you being called the Herald of Andraste? I mean, he's clearly very amused when he asks you, "It's quite the title, isn't it? How do you feel about it?" and I think two of the replies you make result in him actually laughing his way through this response, "I'm sure the Chantry would agree."

 

Thoughts?

 

Cullen sounds particularly cynical about the Chantry throughout several conversations with the IQ, the other advisors, and his lines on war table missions. This is the general feeling all Templars have about the Chantry after the war broke out, though - Justinia did throw the Templars under the bus, so there's a general sense of contempt in them about the Chantry at large (Barris, Lysette, Rylen and Belinda all echo this feeling of being used and abandoned by the Chantry, and Cullen doesn't even disagree when Samson himself expresses this too).

 

But taking from the way he treats the clerics at Haven with absolute disregard, cracks sarcastic jokes about the Chantry representatives across Orlais, talks about Justinia like it's whatever if she's dead or not, and even pokes fun at Leliana and Cassandra should they be elected Divine, I get the impression that Cullen is deflecting his disillusionment with the Chantry with humor, or distilling it with sarcasm at this point. So when he laughs at your title in that first scene and shrugs off any answer you give him, I have the sense that's what he's doing - being cynical and treating Cassandra and Leliana's theatrics a bit like a joke, because the Chantry has become a joke to him. He's there for the Inquisition and the cause of order and peace, but not for Cass and Leli's romanticized views of the Chantry and their personal drives to rebuild it around some manufactured inspirational figure of a Maker-sent Herald.

[fontofnothing]

Thank you!

 

And that explains why Cullen's face looks so much sharper despite using very similar SFX settings. Would you be willing to share that face texture? Pretty pwease??? 

 

Here ya go: http://www.mediafire...023pq8k57cha7u0 

 

I tweaked it a bit earlier today, so it requires the latest patch.

[Cantina]

I never actually played Witch Hunt and didn't pay a lot of attention to Anders in Awakening, honestly. I was mostly talking about mages being confined and unable to leave and being watched minutely, which the main game of DAO suggests. Walking outside the tower for an hour or two to see the sun while Templars glower at you isn't freedom to leave. I think we were actually talking about very different things when we were talking about Kinloch being relaxed. It's obvious from Kinloch and Kirkwall that Templars have had very little idea at times of what mages were actually studying in the way of magic, especially if it was academic rather than actually performing magic, so in that sense, I agree with you (that was one of Greagoir's failings). However, when was it said that Irving encouraged the study of blood magic?

 

When I talk about relaxed, I'm talking about ordinary things like being able to leave the tower and have relationships (at least ones that don't have to be hidden because at best, they'll be used against you if not actively forbidden.) Much less having children. Wilhelm was a DLC and made no sense in context of the rest of what they said about mages in DAO's main game, unless he was being protected by Marric and Cailan until his death.

 

As far as I remember, Mages at the Hold's Tower were allowed to walk the grounds as long as they wanted, but, Anders escaped by jumping in the lake and swimming across. Templars could not follow because they were in full armor. Thus after that Mages were only allowed outside the Tower for a few hours.

 

It seemed as though if a mage proved they were not a danger and could be trusted by Iriving they were allowed to leave the Tower. As to do what? Who knows.

[riverbanks]

I think we were actually talking about very different things when we were talking about Kinloch being relaxed.

 

We were, absolutely. I was going off a tangent of what Mel said, not particularly focusing on what you mentioned.

 

However, when was it said that Irving encouraged the study of blood magic?

 

Condex Entry: Irving's Mistake - you get this from looting Irving's desk in his office, during Broken Circle. (eta: although "encouraged the study of blood magic" is not exactly what I said either )

[nyxocity]

I tend to think of it as more sarcastic then true laughter. Cullen is more like, lets go, get this done. But is peeved because The Chantry keeps butting in and causing issues. Sometimes while in the company of people you know, the person deflects their anger by being sarcastic.

 

Kind of like your trying to get to work early to get stuff done and for no reason you end up in a traffic jam.

 

Oh, I definitely detect some sarcasm in there, possibly even some derision, I'm just not sure where it's directed (at this point my Herald can't tell if it's directed at her or the Chantry). I guess he could just be peeved at the Chantry and glossing over it with humor, but the fact that he asks her what she thinks of the title is what nags at me. If he really wanted to move on, why waste time on the question?

 

^^^ This has always bothered me.

 

Cullen is the only one in the Inner Circle who never makes a commentary on your title. I kept waiting the first game-play where Cullen and The Inquisitor had at least some sort of conversation in regards to it. Sure, he respects the title but never says what he thinks about it-if you are or are not,

 

After a dozen plus game plays this still bothers me to no end.

 

Right? I remember waiting for it to come up in the first PT but then it never did, and after that I think it just sort of slipped my mind until tonight while writing. It seems really ODD that they wouldn't have a conversation about that, especially since he's such a man of faith. You'd think they'd add it to the relationship dialogue at least.

 

It's really bothering me now, too. Someone should ask his writer sometime if he believes the IQ is the Herald.

[Hellion Rex]

Condex Entry: Irving's Mistake - you get this from looting Irving's desk in his office, during Broken Circle.

Huh. I never read that as Irving actually encouraging the study of blood magic.

[Cantina]

Oh, I definitely detect some sarcasm in there, possibly even some derision, I'm just not sure where it's directed (at this point my Herald can't tell if it's directed at her or the Chantry). I guess he could just be peeved at the Chantry and glossing over it with humor, but the fact that he asks her what she thinks of the title is what nags at me. If he really wanted to move on, why waste time on the question?

 

 

Right? I remember waiting for it to come up in the first PT but then it never did, and after that I think it just sort of slipped my mind until tonight while writing. It seems really ODD that they wouldn't have a conversation about that, especially since he's such a man of faith. You'd think they'd add it to the relationship dialogue at least.

 

It's really bothering me now, too. Someone should ask his writer sometime if he believes the IQ is the Herald.

I asked Bri in a two paragraph letter about a month ago. Never got a response back. Ah well.

[riverbanks]

Huh. I never read that as Irving actually encouraging the study of blood magic.

 

Yeah, I went back and added that eta. That's really not what I said up there.

[MelissaGT]

Here ya go: http://www.mediafire...023pq8k57cha7u0 

 

I tweaked it a bit earlier today, so it requires the latest patch.

 

I'm on the latest patch already so I'm good! Thank you so much I   you!

 

All of my Tumblr followers will appreciate it as well I'm sure! 

[riverbanks]

Only ones I have not read were: Mask of the Empire and The Last Flight. I've been too busy to doing other crap...like romancing Cullen.

 

Can't recommend either enough. Masked Empire is really essential to understanding the Orlais subplot in Inquisition, and Last Flight both adds different layers to both the mage/Templar war that are not explored in Asunder, and sets up the Grey Wardens subplot in Inquisition and whatever mess lies beyond DAI for them.

 

Also Michel and Garahel are the best, and I would read a dozen more novels featuring either of them.

[Cantina]

Can't recommend either enough. Masked Empire is really essential to understanding the Orlais subplot in Inquisition, and Last Flight both adds different layers to both the mage/Templar war that are not explored in Asunder, and sets up the Grey Wardens subplot in Inquisition and whatever mess lies beyond DAI for them.

 

Also Michel and Garahel are the best, and I would read a dozen more novels featuring either of them.

 

Out of the books I read, I enjoyed Asunder. I still don't agree <coughs> with what happened to a certain character. Think it should have happened in the game, since most people don't read. Well that is my opinion on it anyway.

[nyxocity]

Cullen sounds particularly cynical about the Chantry throughout several conversations with the IQ, the other advisors, and his lines on war table missions. This is the general feeling all Templars have about the Chantry after the war broke out, though - Justinia did throw the Templars under the bus, so there's a general sense of contempt in them about the Chantry at large (Barris, Lysette, Rylen and Belinda all echo this feeling of being used and abandoned by the Chantry, and Cullen doesn't even disagree when Samson himself expresses this too).

 

But taking from the way he treats the clerics at Haven with absolute disregard, cracks sarcastic jokes about the Chantry representatives across Orlais, talks about Justinia like it's whatever if she's dead or not, and even pokes fun at Leliana and Cassandra should they be elected Divine, I get the impression that Cullen is deflecting his disillusionment with the Chantry with humor, or distilling it with sarcasm at this point. So when he laughs at your title in that first scene and shrugs off any answer you give him, I have the sense that's what he's doing - being cynical and treating Cassandra and Leliana's theatrics a bit like a joke, because the Chantry has become a joke to him. He's there for the Inquisition and the cause of order and peace, but not for Cass and Leli's romanticized views of the Chantry and their personal drives to rebuild it around some manufactured inspirational figure of a Maker-sent Herald.

 

I think this is what Cantina was also getting at. I guess because it's so broken up throughout massive gaming hours it's been harder for me to pick up on all the little digs along the way, but when you lay them all out like that, it makes a lot of sense. Thanks so much! This is really insightful.

 

If I go with that as my canon, I suppose that means he doesn't believe your character is the Herald. I'm remembering a bit more from my first PT now (I've played the game six times and am working on a seventh, so it can get fuzzy), and I think I remember my character thinking that it didn't matter to Cullen what you were, that he always saw you as YOU, which I remember really liking. But this adds a bit of a different flavor to that layer.

[nyxocity]

I asked Bri in a two paragraph letter about a month ago. Never got a response back. Ah well.

 

Aw, man. That's a shame. Maybe she'll answer eventually?

[Cantina]

I think this is what Cantina was also getting at. I guess because it's so broken up throughout massive gaming hours it's been harder for me to pick up on all the little digs along the way, but when you lay them all out like that, it makes a lot of sense. Thanks so much! This is really insightful.

 

If I go with that as my canon, I suppose that means he doesn't believe your character is the Herald. I'm remembering a bit more from my first PT now (I've played the game six times and am working on a seventh, so it can get fuzzy), and I think I remember my character thinking that it didn't matter to Cullen what you were, that he always saw you as YOU, which I remember really liking. But this adds a bit of a different flavor to that layer.

 

Yeah I tend to saw it that way too. Cullen cares about you and loves you deeply by the end of the game. I don't think he'd care if you had the title "Miss Poopy Pants." Still would have been nice to have at least a kibble of his view point instead of you know, guess work.

[nyxocity]

Yeah I tend to saw it that way too. Cullen cares about you and loves you deeply by the end of the game. I don't think he'd care if you had. the title "Miss Poopy Pants." Still would have been nice to have at least a kibble of his view point instead of you know, guess work.

 

Agreed. I do wish they'd included a conversation about it. I'm really so curious what he'd have to say about it. Hell, my characters would be HAPPY if he didn't think they were the Herald, but they'd (I'd) still like to know either way.

[Tarlonniel]

My characters are all in the "I'm not sure about this whole Herald thing" camp, but I've always thought the interactions between Cullen and a Herald who firmly, absolutely believes in their Chosen status and proclaims it at every opportunity would be very, very interesting. Especially if their views aren't shaken at all (or at least only temporarily) by the revelations in "Abyss." But it'd be entirely headcanon, of course, since - as noted - he never actually states what he personally believes, something which I've previously bemoaned.

[Cantina]

What if Cullen was a party member in a DLC!?!

 

 

Well I whipped this conversation up...enjoy!

 

 

Cole: Two bodies lay pressed upon one another, naked as they day they were born. Strange sounds come from her lips, but they are not of pain they are…

 

Cullen Cole!

 

Dorian: Our young friend certainly knows how to break-up the silence during our trek through Maker knows what.

 

The Inquisitor: I am not listening to this.

 

Dorian: Well I am! Don’t mind these two. Please Cole, you have my full attention, by all means continue.

 

Cullen: Maker’s Breath!

[Inanna Athanasia]

I have thought about this a lot in the 7 games I have completed and view it as that while Cullen has totally lost respect in the Chantry he is still a firm believer of the Maker and Andraste. He could very much believe you are the Herald and still feel the Chantry is worthless. I view it as many people whom are Christian and devote to the Bible as well, but since there are 100's of various churches and some teach some radical views from the next, you could say "to the void" with them and still be devote. So I really don't have an issue with the neg chantry pos herald line of thinking.

 

You sort of see one spot on his change on your title in the romance when at the end, Mia's letter to him mentions your character by first name and she comments about it and says: <insert lady name> not the Herald, Inquisitor and so forth anymore? He responds by telling her to stop prying and he will write more later.

[Inanna Athanasia]

What if Cullen was a party member in a DLC!?!

 

 

Well I whipped this conversation up...enjoy!

 

 

Cole: Two bodies lay pressed upon one another, naked as they day they were born. Strange sounds come from her lips, but they are not of pain they are…

 

Cullen Cole!

 

Dorian: Our young friend certainly knows how to break-up the silence during our trek through Maker knows what.

 

The Inquisitor: I am not listening to this.

 

Dorian: Well I am! Don’t mind these two. Please Cole, you have my full attention, by all means continue.

 

Cullen: Maker’s Breath!

OMG I love this!! I love doing convo shorts on Ao3 and this would fit so well with some of the Dorian related ones I have! You inspire me to write

[Tishina]

Huh. I never read that as Irving actually encouraging the study of blood magic.

I don't take it that way either.

 

We were, absolutely. I was going off a tangent of what Mel said, not particularly focusing on what you mentioned.

 

 

Condex Entry: Irving's Mistake - you get this from looting Irving's desk in his office, during Broken Circle. (eta: although "encouraged the study of blood magic" is not exactly what I said either )

But you said "Irving actively encouraged Uldred to teach and tease students with blood magic to root out potential threats," and it might be splitting hairs to say Irving encouraged Uldred to teach blood magic but not encouraged the study of blood magic. I also don't see what types of magic are studied as having much impact on how people experience a circle.

 

I think it's easy to seize on one or two things said later to completely rewrite what the mages' experiences were like. Unless you just assume Anders was an a**, it's hard to ignore the fact that he was so desperate to escape that he did it that many times, risking tranquility and death. People don't normally do that just for giggles. I played a couple of mage origins, and I found several of the Templars downright creepy or threatening, which was why Cullen's humanity stood out so much for me.

[nyxocity]

My characters are all in the "I'm not sure about this whole Herald thing" camp, but I've always thought the interactions between Cullen and a Herald who firmly, absolutely believes in their Chosen status and proclaims it at every opportunity would be very, very interesting. Especially if their views aren't shaken at all (or at least only temporarily) by the revelations in "Abyss." But it'd be entirely headcanon, of course, since - as noted - he never actually states what he personally believes, something which I've previously bemoaned.

 

There should absolutely be some dialogue for that. More's the pity. My characters are all in the "I don't know" camp or the "No, I'm definitely NOT, why won't anyone listen to me, this is like DA2 all over again" camp, but I'd like to try devout believer one day. (much love for DA2, btw, but seriously no one listened to anything you said in that game )

 

What if Cullen was a party member in a DLC!?!

 

 

Well I whipped this conversation up...enjoy!

 

 

Cole: Two bodies lay pressed upon one another, naked as they day they were born. Strange sounds come from her lips, but they are not of pain they are…

 

Cullen Cole!

 

Dorian: Our young friend certainly knows how to break-up the silence during our trek through Maker knows what.

 

The Inquisitor: I am not listening to this.

 

Dorian: Well I am! Don’t mind these two. Please Cole, you have my full attention, by all means continue.

 

Cullen: Maker’s Breath!

 

Hah! Oh god, Cullen, Cole and Dorian all in the same party would be a constant RIOT.

 

I have thought about this a lot in the 7 games I have completed and view it as that while Cullen has totally lost respect in the Chantry he is still a firm believer of the Maker and Andraste. He could very much believe you are the Herald and still feel the Chantry is worthless. I view it as many people whom are Christian and devote to the Bible as well, but since there are 100's of various churches and some teach some radical views from the next, you could say "to the void" with them and still be devote. So I really don't have an issue with the neg chantry pos herald line of thinking.

 

You sort of see one spot on his change on your title in the romance when at the end, Mia's letter to him mentions your character by first name and she comments about it and says: <insert lady name> not the Herald, Inquisitor and so forth anymore? He responds by telling her to stop prying and he will write more later.

 

He could believe it, that's true. But the more I consider it, the lack of his remarking upon it beyond those comments at the first war table make me think he probably doesn't. Also, the fact that when you start the romance with him, he says something to the effect of, "You're the Inquisitor... we're at war... and it seemed impossible." No mention of you being the Herald being an issue. I mean yes, your title has changed at that point, but you are still supposedly the chosen of Andraste, regardless. Just my personal feelings I am developing on the matter as I think on it But yes, he absolutely could believe it, separate from the Chantry

 

And yes, the name change response is so cute. I wish there'd been a follow up correspondence to that.

[skylark]

I think this is what Cantina was also getting at. I guess because it's so broken up throughout massive gaming hours it's been harder for me to pick up on all the little digs along the way, but when you lay them all out like that, it makes a lot of sense. Thanks so much! This is really insightful.

 

If I go with that as my canon, I suppose that means he doesn't believe your character is the Herald. I'm remembering a bit more from my first PT now (I've played the game six times and am working on a seventh, so it can get fuzzy), and I think I remember my character thinking that it didn't matter to Cullen what you were, that he always saw you as YOU, which I remember really liking. But this adds a bit of a different flavor to that layer.

 

To add to what everyone's said, I think it's obvious Cullen doesn't think much of the Chantry anymore. He might have at some earlier point, but regardless of what he thinks about the organization we can agree he's religious to some degree. If Cullen didn't believe in the Herald and you did, I think there'd be an argument somewhere if you're trying to have a relationship with him.....

 

I wrote a few more sentences and once I reread what I wrote I realized I backtracked and ran over my own argument, and now I'm just as frustrated with this as you all are..... It shouldn't matter what he thinks of the Chantry itself, the fact that he IS religious tells me that- whether Quizzie is Herald or not, should matter to him because it's like putting his faith into question isn't it?

 

The only thing I can possibly think of if that he just chooses to believe whatever you do. But personally I don't think he believes you're Herald.

[skylark]

What if Cullen was a party member in a DLC!?!

 

 

Well I whipped this conversation up...enjoy!

 

 

Cole: Two bodies lay pressed upon one another, naked as they day they were born. Strange sounds come from her lips, but they are not of pain they are…

 

Cullen Cole!

 

Dorian: Our young friend certainly knows how to break-up the silence during our trek through Maker knows what.

 

The Inquisitor: I am not listening to this.

 

Dorian: Well I am! Don’t mind these two. Please Cole, you have my full attention, by all means continue.

 

Cullen: Maker’s Breath!

 

This is brilliant lol. Do we know anything about Cullen and Dorian's relationship? I haven't finished the game so I'm not sure if there's content I've yet to see. I have a feeling a lot of people would think they wouldn't get along? I think Dorian would poke fun and tease Cullen senselessly, but Cullen's probably used to that from his siblings. I could see them bonding over books or something though.