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[Hellion Rex]

I never actually considered any of that especially to do with the taint & it's possible origins. I'd love to find out how it came to be because ever since the first game it's bugged me. I know the stories of how the blight began but for me there were still a lot of missing pieces (simply because I don't think the Chantry & Cory's version are 100%) and where did it come from? Did it infection the Golden City before Cory got there? or was that punishment inflicted on them... by the Maker? I'm not sure I believe that the Maker is what the Chantry describes "it/him/her", that's not to say there isn't a Maker, I just believe the Chantry has changed a lot of teachings over the hundreds of years to suit their needs & from when Andraste was alive...

 

Anyways keep sharing, I love reading all your theories! (and I need something to do today! lol)

Ok, so based on what we know so far, we have definitive proof that the Taint existed long before the Magisters breached the Fade. Our proof is in red lyrium. Back in DA2 we visited a Primeval Thaig that existed long before the First Blight, and the place was covered in red lyrium, which is tainted lyrium. That suggests that the Taint existed in some form long before the magisters went to the Fade. Now, my best guess, based on what Cory said, is that the Black City really was empty, or Corypheus witnessed something so horrific that he would rather that there was nothing sitting in the City. Either way, the Taint was most likely contained within the City, till Cory screwed up and let it all out.

 

Now, as to how it got up there, we have no definitive clue. My belief is that Solas had a hand in creating a permanent magical construct in the Fade that was capable of sealing away all of the raw taint in Thedas. The red lyrium had already been tainted and was perhaps simply not able to be sealed away.

 

Further ruminations: I find it extremely worrisome that when we enter the Fade physically, red lyrium is absolutely everywhere, which suggests that the Taint had either always been a part of the Fade, or it possibly even spread when Cory and co. opened the floodgates. On top of that, when transported to the Fade from Adamant, someone (I can't remember who) mentions that the mark is probably protecting the group from the ravages of the Fade. I'm wondering if the Anchor is also a safeguard against red lyrium, and by extension, the Taint itself. It might possibly explain why Cory and others were Tainted when they breached the Fade millennia ago - they just didn't have anything to shield them. Ergo, this could potentially solidify a connection between the elven magic (The Anchor) and the Taint, as one appears capable of protecting against the other.

 

I love some good lorecrafting lol.

Spoiler

[MelissaGT]

If any of us have seen it, it would be MelissaGT since she spent a lot of time on a Templar PT. Unless he only says that when he stays off lyrium...

 

You get the mission regardless.

 

Yeah, he does. And Cullen's response there absolutely makes no sense, because Ser is very honest with you about the lyrium before you choose to take the spec, so there's no reason he -or you- wouldn't be just as clear with whoever decides to volunteer among your troops. It just reads like shoehorned Cullen being combative about Templars for the sake of it, because at no point of this mission is it implied that you'll trick these people and only tell them rosy white lies about what they're signing up for.

 

And it goes directly against his other thoughts that the Order is still necessary and should continue to exist, too. LIke... Templars should still exist, but no one should become a Templar anymore. Right.

 

I agree with you there. Even more, if you choose to not follow through with training more Templars, Ser says something like "Your training is now complete." I can't remember the wording exactly, but it leads me to believe that he's happy with your decision to not train more.

 

Ser was always very open and up front with what the IQ is walking into. Rhiannon accepted it with eyes open. 

[MelissaGT]

Y'all owe me for this one!

 

 

Spoiler

 

Spoilered picture is a close up

 

http://greendelle.tu...s-sure-is-great

 

What does it say on his hot li'l tighty whities? 

[Hellion Rex]

What does it say on his hot li'l tighty whities? 

It's up and down. It says "Him".

 

 

If you read all three of their swimtrunks together it says "Ugh, free him." Which is obviously a reference to their....weapons.

[DaiyoukaiGeisha]

 

* snippage*

 

Ser was always very open and up front with what the IQ is walking into. Rhiannon accepted it with eyes open. 

 

And honestly...

Spoiler

In Jaws of Hakkon where you read about the "beginnings" of the Order somewhat, they are quite open and honest about lyrium and the drawbacks. One letter you find in a cave (ugh I forget the NPC who wrote it) was very upfront about how he and his companions felt.

[Asperath]

Ok, so based on what we know so far, we have definitive proof that the Taint existed long before the Magisters breached the Fade. Our proof is in red lyrium. Back in DA2 we visited a Primeval Thaig that existed long before the First Blight, and the place was covered in red lyrium, which is tainted lyrium. That suggests that the Taint existed in some form long before the magisters went to the Fade. Now, my best guess, based on what Cory said, is that the Black City really was empty, or Corypheus witnessed something so horrific that he would rather that there was nothing sitting in the City. Either way, the Taint was most likely contained within the City, till Cory screwed up and let it all out.

 

Now, as to how it got up there, we have no definitive clue. My belief is that Solas had a hand in creating a permanent magical construct in the Fade that was capable of sealing away all of the raw taint in Thedas. The red lyrium had already been tainted and was perhaps simply not able to be sealed away.

 

Further ruminations: I find it extremely worrisome that when we enter the Fade physically, red lyrium is absolutely everywhere, which suggests that the Taint had either always been a part of the Fade, or it possibly even spread when Cory and co. opened the floodgates. On top of that, when transported to the Fade from Adamant, someone (I can't remember who) mentions that the mark is probably protecting the group from the ravages of the Fade. I'm wondering if the Anchor is also a safeguard against red lyrium, and by extension, the Taint itself. It might possibly explain why Cory and others were Tainted when they breached the Fade millennia ago - they just didn't have anything to shield them. Ergo, this could potentially solidify a connection between the elven magic (The Anchor) and the Taint, as one appears capable of protecting against the other.

 

I love some good lorecrafting lol.

Spoiler

 

 

So would you say, in your opinion, that the taint is originally naturally occuring or was created either by accident or purpose?

[Tishina]

It's up and down. It says "Him".
 
 
If you read all three of their swimtrunks together it says "Ugh, free him." Which is obviously a reference to their....weapons.

I was being polite for once and not pointing that out.

[MelissaGT]

It's up and down. It says "Him".

 

 

If you read all three of their swimtrunks together it says "Ugh, free him." Which is obviously a reference to their....weapons.

 

Good grief I feel dense. 

[Hellion Rex]

I was being polite for once and not pointing that out.

HA! I'm a thirsty man, so I couldn't resist!

[Hellion Rex]

So would you say, in your opinion, that the taint is originally naturally occuring or was created either by accident or purpose?

...that's where it gets tricky. I feel more strongly in the "created" side, but I could also see an argument in favor of a naturally occurring entity, primarily cause the stuff seems to have a level of sentience.

 

And another thing that's been bugging me:

 

From the Old Elven Writing that one can read if the Inquisitor drinks from the Well, we get this inscription

 

"In this place we prepare to hunt the pillars of the Earth. Their workers scurry, witless, soulless. This death will be a mercy. We will make the earth blossom with their passing."

 

Based on the phrasing, it's almost like the elves are referring to some sort of proto-darkspan as the soulless "workers". This supports the murals we saw in Mythal's Temple of elves fighting darkspawn like creatures.  What the Pillars of the Earth are though, I have absolutely no idea. But perhaps the Taint itself is some sort of powerful entity that has always been present in the world.

[Asperath]

...that's where it gets tricky. I feel more strongly in the "created" side, but I could also see an argument in favor of a naturally occurring entity, primarily cause the stuff seems to have a level of sentience.

 

And another thing that's been bugging me:

 

From the Old Elven Writing that one can read if the Inquisitor drinks from the Well, we get this inscription

 

Based on the phrasing, it's almost like the elves are referring to some sort of proto-darkspan as the soulless "workers". This supports the murals we saw in Mythal's Temple of elves fighting darkspawn like creatures.  What the Pillars of the Earth are though, I have absolutely no idea. But perhaps the Taint itself is some sort of powerful entity that has always been present in the world.

 

Then in that case the taint would pre-exist before Cory & the others went to the Golden City... now here's when my memory is crappy, when were the Old Gods locked away by "the Maker"? I thought it was afterwards because didn't the Old Gods coerce the magisters to break into the Golden City? Then I think in that case this song that drives the darkspawn to find the dragon aka old gods, did it exist prior to old gods being locked away? And if so, what was the driving force prior? or how did the song come about in the first place, or if it has always been there, to focus then on the dragons?

Sorry... I always end up with far more questions with this lore stuff then answers. I love it but it's frustrating lol

 

Part of me wonders about the song & it being to do with lyrium. I can't remember why but I got the impression (somewhere) that normal lyrium being living as well is some how connected with the song... maybe I'm just imagining things. I wish my memory was so poor now lol

[Hellion Rex]

Then in that case the taint would pre-exist before Cory & the others went to the Golden City... now here's when my memory is crappy, when were the Old Gods locked away by "the Maker"? I thought it was afterwards because didn't the Old Gods coerce the magisters to break into the Golden City? Then I think in that case this song that drives the darkspawn to find the dragon aka old gods, did it exist prior to old gods being locked away? And if so, what was the driving force prior? or how did the song come about in the first place, or if it has always been there, to focus then on the dragons?

Sorry... I always end up with far more questions with this lore stuff then answers. I love it but it's frustrating lol

It's not made very clear when the Old Gods were locked away by the Maker. If memory serves, it might have happened pre-Cory, and this is what drives Dumat to call to Cory and make him go to the City. Or it could have been the reverse, and "the Maker" locked them away in response to the Breaching. Either way, we have seven immensely powerful dragonic creatures trapped mysteriously miles and miles beneath the surface of the Earth......

 

HOLD IT. What if the "Pillars of the Earth" were the seven dragons locked away deep within the bowels of Earth? And their "workers" simply refers to the ancient darkspawn that served them?

[Tishina]

HA! I'm a thirsty man, so I couldn't resist!

Well, the fact I was on my tablet helped me resist since it's much harder to type on there

 

Besides, I thought I could pretend to not live in the gutter for once...

[Tishina]

It's not made very clear when the Old Gods were locked away by the Maker. If memory serves, it might have happened pre-Cory, and this is what drives Dumat to call to Cory and make him go to the City. Or it could have been the reverse, and "the Maker" locked them away in response to the Breaching. Either way, we have seven immensely powerful dragonic creatures trapped mysteriously miles and miles beneath the surface of the Earth......

 

HOLD IT. What if the "Pillars of the Earth" were the seven dragons locked away deep within the bowels of Earth? And their "workers" simply refers to the ancient darkspawn that served them?

I also think the dwarves come into this in some way. There are a lot of theories about their connection to lyrium generally...

[R2s Muse]

Good grief I feel dense. 

I couldn't read it at first, either. Then once I read HIM... I still didn't get it til Elu just pointed it out. LOL Ah well.

[R2s Muse]

It's not made very clear when the Old Gods were locked away by the Maker. If memory serves, it might have happened pre-Cory, and this is what drives Dumat to call to Cory and make him go to the City. Or it could have been the reverse, and "the Maker" locked them away in response to the Breaching. Either way, we have seven immensely powerful dragonic creatures trapped mysteriously miles and miles beneath the surface of the Earth......

 

HOLD IT. What if the "Pillars of the Earth" were the seven dragons locked away deep within the bowels of Earth? And their "workers" simply refers to the ancient darkspawn that served them?

Supposedly it was the old gods who whispered to man and taught him magic, so that supposedly happened way before the magisters were encouraged to breach the Veil.  The Old Gods were slumbering already and whispered through dreams.  The Maker originally locked them away because man worshipped them as false gods, the First Sin. 

[Asperath]

It's not made very clear when the Old Gods were locked away by the Maker. If memory serves, it might have happened pre-Cory, and this is what drives Dumat to call to Cory and make him go to the City. Or it could have been the reverse, and "the Maker" locked them away in response to the Breaching. Either way, we have seven immensely powerful dragonic creatures trapped mysteriously miles and miles beneath the surface of the Earth......

 

HOLD IT. What if the "Pillars of the Earth" were the seven dragons locked away deep within the bowels of Earth? And their "workers" simply refers to the ancient darkspawn that served them?

 

Prehaps the elves forsaw what was to come and other crap got int he way of preparations like the Exalted Marches... (interesting they didn't see that coming tho)

 

I also think the dwarves come into this in some way. There are a lot of theories about their connection to lyrium generally...

 

Didn't Solas say magic was normal for the ancient elves like breathing? Maybe whatever happened to change that and their immortality have more far reaching effects? including the dwarves not dreaming/lyrium? I mean I think IB says in game that the Kossith wouldn't look like the Qunari of today (I think dragons I def involved in the change of appearance)... maybe it's akll connected? Makes me wonder about where the humans and qunari came from originally as well and why they left (& now who the Executors are lol)

[Hellion Rex]

Supposedly it was the old gods who whispered to man and taught him magic, so that supposedly happened way before the magisters were encouraged to breach the Veil.  The Old Gods were slumbering already and whispered through dreams.  The Maker originally locked them away because man worshipped them as false gods, the First Sin. 

Hold up. I'm pretty sure that the Old Gods were believed to have taught blood magic to mages in the ancient days, not everyday normal magic. However, I do agree on your point that the Maker probably locked them away due to their worship.

 

Hmmmm, could still work with the dragons being the "pillars of the earth". Perhaps a metaphoric representation of their place underground, serving as foundations for the world. I think Yavana perhaps further compounds this with her declaration that "The blood of dragons is the blood of the world."

[Hellion Rex]

I also think the dwarves come into this in some way. There are a lot of theories about their connection to lyrium generally...

I agree that the primeval dwarves fit into this scheme somewhere, but I don't think they are "soulless workers". That doesn't sound like them, at least to me.

[Tishina]

I agree that the primeval dwarves fit into this scheme somewhere, but I don't think they are "soulless workers". That doesn't sound like them, at least to me.

I don't think they are either (obviously, lol.) But it's pretty much agreed that dwarves have some more direct tie to lyrium (up to someone suggesting lyrium is the souls of dead dwarves - "returned to the Stone" - though that theory is rather creepy to me.) I haven't gotten enough into the dwarven lore on the primeval thaig, etc. to really have an opinion, though I kind of favor the idea that dwarves' magical potential ends up as lyrium somehow. The devs have implied that exposure to raw lyrium is the reason they don't have mages, but dwarves who've been on the surface for generations and aren't exposed to raw lyrium haven't developed it.

[R2s Muse]

Hold up. I'm pretty sure that the Old Gods were believed to have taught blood magic to mages in the ancient days, not everyday normal magic. However, I do agree on your point that the Maker probably locked them away due to their worship.

 

Hmmmm, could still work with the dragons being the "pillars of the earth". Perhaps a metaphoric representation of their place underground, serving as foundations for the world. I think Yavana perhaps further compounds this with her declaration that "The blood of dragons is the blood of the world."

I could easily see the dragons having some fundamental role like that. Yavana had some pretty interesting things to say about their role before the Veil. I doubt the Maker had anything real to do with the dragons being underground anyway. While I could see the lore explaining the old gods and even the elven gods as very powerful beings, I think at least the ultimate creator, ie the Maker, will be left a distant mystery. At least, I hope, given past protestations that we won't be dealing with real gods walking the earth (:sideeyes DG again about that:).

 

On magic, hard to say. I don't think anything points to the old gods teaching magic to the elves. So there was already magic in the world. If the old gods are part of the Maker's first children and spirits from  before the Veil, then it could follow that they are merely attributed with teaching something considered evil to the Maker's second children, man, by the Chantry. The Chant likes to draw clear lines of good and evil, especially around things lost to the mists of time. The role of the olds gods in encouraging the seven magisters seems closer to truth, tho. 

 

On the blood of dragons is the blood of the world... you know, lyrium itself is also called the essence of all creation. They both are found in the deep roads. Red lyrium is even blood-like in appearance. What if there's a connection there?

[riverbanks]

Based on the phrasing, it's almost like the elves are referring to some sort of proto-darkspan as the soulless "workers". This supports the murals we saw in Mythal's Temple of elves fighting darkspawn like creatures.  What the Pillars of the Earth are though, I have absolutely no idea. But perhaps the Taint itself is some sort of powerful entity that has always been present in the world.

 

A little Occam's Razor might say the Pillars are simply the Deep Roads, and that's where the dwarves come in. We don't actually know how old the dwarves are, but we've been finding they're much much older than previously assumed (the red lyrium, the ancient thaig, the Titans, etc); they might be older to Thedas than even the elves. "Hunt the Pillars of the Earth" might just be a figure of language to mean hunt the proto-darkspawn through the would-be Deep Roads.

[riverbanks]

The devs have implied that exposure to raw lyrium is the reason they don't have mages, but dwarves who've been on the surface for generations and aren't exposed to raw lyrium haven't developed it.

 

I think they mean this in an evolutionary sense, though? Like, we humans lost a vestigial tail at some point, and we don't develop it back even if we're raised in a jungle. The dwarves, as a race, have developed that resistance and disconnect, and the current generations don't have that trace anymore, regardless of living in the stone or in the surface.

[meanieweenie]

 

On the blood of dragons is the blood of the world... you know, lyrium itself is also called the essence of all creation. They both are found in the deep roads. Red lyrium is even blood-like in appearance. What if there's a connection there?

I think I sort of head canon this myself. I have no evidence to back it up. Just a feeling that it is so. 

*don't follow me. I have no idea where I'm going*

[Hellion Rex]

I could easily see the dragons having some fundamental role like that. Yavana had some pretty interesting things to say about their role before the Veil. I doubt the Maker had anything real to do with the dragons being underground anyway. While I could see the lore explaining the old gods and even the elven gods as very powerful beings, I think at least the ultimate creator, ie the Maker, will be left a distant mystery. At least, I hope, given past protestations that we won't be dealing with real gods walking the earth (:sideeyes DG again about that:).

 

On magic, hard to say. I don't think anything points to the old gods teaching magic to the elves. So there was already magic in the world. If the old gods are part of the Maker's first children and spirits from  before the Veil, then it could follow that they are merely attributed with teaching something considered evil to the Maker's second children, man, by the Chantry. The Chant likes to draw clear lines of good and evil, especially around things lost to the mists of time. The role of the olds gods in encouraging the seven magisters seems closer to truth, tho. 

 

On the blood of dragons is the blood of the world... you know, lyrium itself is also called the essence of all creation. They both are found in the deep roads. Red lyrium is even blood-like in appearance. What if there's a connection there?

Oh, whoops. I didn't mean the elven mages. I just meant that the Old Gods taught to the human mages blood magic. I imagine that the elven mages used blood magic of their own accord and discovered it on their own.

 

Regarding the Archdemons being put into the ground, I don't think "The Maker" did it either. And if my suspicions about the Old Gods' origins are correct, perhaps the elven pantheon is the one to put them under the ground in the ancient days.

 

And it's possible that the Old Gods are perhaps not too far removed from

Spoiler

Hakkon, in that they are dragons possessed by primordial spirits.