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[The Elder King]

Good news. I'd like to see some new hairstyle .
And While I'd have preferred To see her in MP, I'mg glad to see Isabela in all her glory in Frostbite .

[Liadan]

I`m still crossing my fingers for new hairstyle   and Isabela looks great, they did a really good job making her look like her DAII model!

[Hellion Rex]

ISABELA!!!!!!!!

 

 

[The Elder King]

ISABELA!!!!!!!!

Shes gorgeous . I'd like to eventually see the other DA2 companions in Frostbite.

[Ananka]

I love Isabela, I'm so happy they're bringing her back even if it's just MP.

And I seriously need the Black Emporium. I have a couple of quizzies that desperately need to tone down their makeup.

[Char]

Squee! Izzy darling I missed you (now someone hand me the Fenris!)

[riverbanks]

 but could Hawke have been referring to a different group of Templars or could Cory have corrupted others before Samson that Samson wasn't aware of, and those were the ones who pushed a Hawke viscount into leaving?

 

No, she's very specific about the Kirkwall templars using red lyrium and turning on her. (here, 2:35) It just doesn't work with the timeline presented in this story at all.

 

I'm not that disturbed by Cullen leaving because 1) I suspect Samson's memories are distorted, 2) there may have been things going on that Cullen was unaware of (he's many things, but I think we can safely admit he can be a little oblivious to anything subtle), and 3) even if things weren't good in Kirkwall, he may have felt joining the Inquisition would do more to help them than staying.

 

That is what he claims in Inquisition, and it does make sense to a certain extent, but his motivations at the point when he's already left are not really the point. The issue remains that there's still a huge unresolved cognitive dissonance between the Cullen at the end of a Templar-siding DA2 and the Cullen presented in DAI altogether, and as interesting as all this ancillary material is, it only aggravates this dissonance by making his and Hawke's timelines simply not work with this version of events.

 

At times it feels like the writers want to sweep this ending under the rug and pretend it never happened, like the Ultimate Sacrifice ending in DAO, but you know... it did. It was right there in my game. So, I don't know, it's just frustrating to keep seeing the canon material constantly slanted against your own game, even as the notion that there is no canon persists, and ending up with your world state largely made of headcanon because there are no real answers out there.

[Tyrannosaurus Rex]

I always gotten the feeling that the contradictions in Cullen's backstory was a result of the different writers not coming together and ending up writing each their thing, so we have these issues like the Kirkwall templars apparently using Red Lyrium while under Cullen's command, etc.

 

 

That is what he claims in Inquisition, and it does make sense to a certain extent, but his motivations at the point when he's already left are not really the point. The issue remains that there's still a huge unresolved cognitive dissonance between the Cullen at the end of a Templar-siding DA2 and the Cullen presented in DAI altogether, and as interesting as all this ancillary material is, it only aggravates this dissonance by making his and Hawke's timelines simply not work with this version of events.

 

At times it feels like the writers want to sweep this ending under the rug and pretend it never happened, like the Ultimate Sacrifice ending in DAO, but you know... it did. It was right there in my game. So, I don't know, it's just frustrating to keep seeing the canon material constantly slanted against your own game, even as the notion that there is no canon persists, and ending up with your world state largely made of headcanon because there are no real answers out there.

 

Just curious, what made you want to chose the templars in DA2 for your canon? 

[Tishina]

No, she's very specific about the Kirkwall templars using red lyrium and turning on her. (here, 2:35) It just doesn't work with the timeline presented in this story at all.

 

 

That is what he claims in Inquisition, and it does make sense to a certain extent, but his motivations at the point when he's already left are not really the point. The issue remains that there's still a huge unresolved cognitive dissonance between the Cullen at the end of a Templar-siding DA2 and the Cullen presented in DAI altogether, and as interesting as all this ancillary material is, it only aggravates this dissonance by making his and Hawke's timelines simply not work with this version of events.

 

At times it feels like the writers want to sweep this ending under the rug and pretend it never happened, like the Ultimate Sacrifice ending in DAO, but you know... it did. It was right there in my game. So, I don't know, it's just frustrating to keep seeing the canon material constantly slanted against your own game, even as the notion that there is no canon persists, and ending up with your world state largely made of headcanon because there are no real answers out there.

I'm not sure, listening to that clip, that she had to mean "the official Templars of Kirkwall" since there weren't really any after the Accord was broken and the ones who turned on her may have been some that rebelled but were still in Kirkwall. Or that Cullen legitimately didn't understand what was going on with some of them---I know Meredith died from red lyrium but did Varric and Hawke ever tell anyone there was more or the signs of its bad effects? We don't know how obvious the red lyrium addiction is or how long it takes before there are visible signs. It may have been only a few stirring up problems, and Viscount Hawke only figured out what happened later.

 

But I'm really inclined to Tyrannosaurus Rex's theory that the writers don't always talk to each other about details like timing (you have to know that one person wrote what may have been an almost idle line of dialogue putting something at a certain time in order to ask about the timing, and all the different choices make it incredibly complicated.) And writers don't always have that great a sense of chronology or time either. I understand the frustration since it is your preferred ending that's effected, though, kind of like me and the way the dwarves get some really bizarre lines in DAI...like absolutely no option to question a dwarf's sudden ability to dream, not even afterwards to Solas, the Fade expert?

[riverbanks]

Just curious, what made you want to chose the templars in DA2 for your canon? 

 

It worked better for my Hawke's story. I could go into detail forever, but the tl;dr version is that my Hawke never had a healthy relationship with magic, before, during or after Kirkwall (magic though, not mages, mind you - they were very different concepts for her), and Meredith was very charismatic and had a lot of notions that seemed reasonable enough to a young woman traumatized by how magic had broken and ultimately destroyed her family. So, seeing how much the magic she already resented was ruining the new home she'd made in Kirkwall too, she trusted Meredith, the Templars, the Chantry... and in the end it all went to hell anyway. (mad props to Jo Wyatt for giving diplo Hawke the perfect emotionally wrecked and exhausted tone in Inquisition, it fit my Rowan's story at that point so well<3)

 

As for the decision of helping the Templars itself, depending on which dialogue choices you use at this point you can make it so that Hawke never actually agrees to the annulment, so it's not as clear cut as it seems. The dialogue path I took was the one that shows that Orsino is forcing Hawke's hand with talk of a rebellion (which would and inevitably does lead into mages and Templars and demons let loose in the streets, killing innocent civillians by the dozen, something Hawke doesn't need a repeat of after the qunari invasion), leaving her with no choice but to side with the Templars to mantain order and stop the imminent chaos and destruction. Varric has an interesting bit of banter here, agreeing with a Templar-siding Hawke that they're doing this for Kirkwall and its people, before any side's invested interests.

 

That's something I really like about the Viscount ending - Hawke finally comes to a position where she can actually make a difference in the pit of voles that is Kirkwall, and both the city guard and the Templars are on her side. She has it all. It was her chance to really hit the carta, the guilds, the maleficar collectives, clean up this hell hole and hopefully make Kirkwall a better and safer place for the tons of poor and miserable people crawling through its streets. Pity it didn't last.

[R2s Muse]

It worked better for my Hawke's story. I could go into detail forever, but the tl;dr version is that my Hawke never had a healthy relationship with magic, before, during or after Kirkwall (magic though, not mages, mind you - they were very different concepts for her), and Meredith was very charismatic and had a lot of notions that seemed reasonable enough to a young woman traumatized by how magic had broken and ultimately destroyed her family. So, seeing how much the magic she already resented was ruining the new home she'd made in Kirkwall too, she trusted Meredith, the Templars, the Chantry... and in the end it all went to hell anyway. (mad props to Jo Wyatt for giving diplo Hawke the perfect emotionally wrecked and exhausted tone in Inquisition, it fit my Rowan's story at that point so well<3)
 
As for the decision of helping the Templars itself, depending on which dialogue choices you use at this point you can make it so that Hawke never actually agrees to the annulment, so it's not as clear cut as it seems. The dialogue path I took was the one that shows that Orsino is forcing Hawke's hand with talk of a rebellion (which would and inevitably does lead into mages and Templars and demons let loose in the streets, killing innocent civillians by the dozen, something Hawke doesn't need a repeat of after the qunari invasion), leaving her with no choice but to side with the Templars to mantain order and stop the imminent chaos and destruction. Varric has an interesting bit of banter here, agreeing with a Templar-siding Hawke that they're doing this for Kirkwall and its people, before any side's invested interests.
 
That's something I really like about the Viscount ending - Hawke finally comes to a position where she can actually make a difference in the pit of voles that is Kirkwall, and both the city guard and the Templars are on her side. She has it all. It was her chance to really hit the carta, the guilds, the maleficar collectives, clean up this hell hole and hopefully make Kirkwall a better and safer place for the tons of poor and miserable people crawling through its streets. Pity it didn't last.

Yeah, I also found a satisfactory way of wiggling through the dialogue tree in the Last Straw where my Hawke was trying to limit casualties and help the city by siding with the templars. There was a way to do it that didn't feel icky for me... altho of course, that way isn't recognized in any of the choices in the Keep.

[R2s Muse]

I'm not sure, listening to that clip, that she had to mean "the official Templars of Kirkwall" since there weren't really any after the Accord was broken and the ones who turned on her may have been some that rebelled but were still in Kirkwall. Or that Cullen legitimately didn't understand what was going on with some of them---I know Meredith died from red lyrium but did Varric and Hawke ever tell anyone there was more or the signs of its bad effects? We don't know how obvious the red lyrium addiction is or how long it takes before there are visible signs. It may have been only a few stirring up problems, and Viscount Hawke only figured out what happened later.
 
But I'm really inclined to Tyrannosaurus Rex's theory that the writers don't always talk to each other about details like timing (you have to know that one person wrote what may have been an almost idle line of dialogue putting something at a certain time in order to ask about the timing, and all the different choices make it incredibly complicated.) And writers don't always have that great a sense of chronology or time either. I understand the frustration since it is your preferred ending that's effected, though, kind of like me and the way the dwarves get some really bizarre lines in DAI...like absolutely no option to question a dwarf's sudden ability to dream, not even afterwards to Solas, the Fade expert?

There are official templars after breaking the Nevarran Accord, they just don't work for the Chantry any more. Now they deal with the mage threat as they "see fit." But even so, the Accord wasn't broken until 9:40, not long before Cassandra came to Kirkwall. It's unclear how much earlier than that Viscountess Hawke stepped down. It's possible that there was a small window in there before she left but after the broken Accord when there also were new factions of chantry-loyal templars and chantry-free templars in Kirkwall. TBH, I'm not sure we quite know to which group Cullen would have belonged (that conflict being a far more plausible reason for him to quit the Order and leave Kirkwall with the Chantry folk, IMO).

Even if red lyrium came to Kirkwall earlier and the implication of Samson's story is wrong/misleading, it seems to me that it would have to be a pretty credible threat for the red templars to "turn" on the Viscountess of Kirkwall and, in so doing, drive her to step down from her position and leave her own city. I just can't see it being a few asymptomatic dudes, since she also knew enough of the cause to go to the Wardens for answers. The "Cullen is oblivious" argument can only be used so many times until it becomes, to coin a phrase, ridiculous.

Anyhoo, on Hawke's red lyrium prob, it's possible they just frakked it up. Unless there's far more to the story than we know...

[Tishina]

There are official templars after breaking the Nevarran Accord, they just don't work for the Chantry any more. Now they deal with the mage threat as they "see fit." But even so, the Accord wasn't broken until 9:40, not long before Cassandra came to Kirkwall. It's unclear how much earlier than that Viscountess Hawke stepped down. It's possible that there was a small window in there before she left but after the broken Accord when there also were new factions of chantry-loyal templars and chantry-free templars in Kirkwall. TBH, I'm not sure we quite know to which group Cullen would have belonged (that conflict being a far more plausible reason for him to quit the Order and leave Kirkwall with the Chantry folk, IMO).

Even if red lyrium came to Kirkwall earlier and the implication of Samson's story is wrong/misleading, it seems to me that it would have to be a pretty credible threat for the red templars to "turn" on the Viscountess of Kirkwall and, in so doing, drive her to step down from her position and leave her own city. I just can't see it being a few asymptomatic dudes, since she also knew enough of the cause to go to the Wardens for answers. The "Cullen is oblivious" argument can only be used so many times until it becomes, to coin a phrase, ridiculous.

Anyhoo, on Hawke's red lyrium prob, it's possible they just frakked it up. Unless there's far more to the story than we know...

And see, this is why I prefaced my comments with a reminder that I haven't paid really close attention to some of the details about any version of the Hawke storyline; I knew there were probably specific details on timing that I haven't paid close attention to. We don't actually know how closely a Viscount Hawke and a Knight-Commander Cullen worked together; they may have cooperated, but had minimal contact, not necessarily have exchanged information (though I admit I prefer your versions of their history. ) She may even have mistakenly have believed Cullen was involved and not approached him for that reason. However, I'm not sure why you think the red templars (presumably getting red lyrium from Cory) wouldn't have immediately begun undermining a vicscountess Hawke - the implication is that Cory can influence them at a minimum through the red lyrium which has the darkspawn taint, just as he did wardens? And other templars might have privately blamed her for Ander's actions and stirred up trouble for her (we don't actually know what that trouble was). I suspect there are pieces you and Riverbanks are considering that I haven't fit in place yet, lol.

 

I know it would be nice to see a story from the Viscountess/pro-templar side, but since Samson refers to Knight Captain Cullen, this was clearly a non-Viscountess story. The writer had to pick one of the versions to write it, doesn't make it the sole cannon. I'd love to see the alternative with a viscountess and a Knight Commander Cullen. I do think they accidentally wrote themselves into a corner and couldn't see a way out that wouldn't require more time than a relatively minor (in the larger scheme of things) point of timing. And I think the contradiction may have come from them changing their minds on what would happen to Cullen rather than not caring about supporting a particular ending, and if, as we suspect, they originally intended him to have Samson's place, I'll concede the contradiction.

[EggplantRed]

Long time lurker. Not sure if this has been posted before but stopping by to drop this off then I'm back to lurkdom again  

 

Modern interpretation of Cullen

 

See the rest: http://klc-journei.t...age-cullen-insp

[R2s Muse]

And see, this is why I prefaced my comments with a reminder that I haven't paid really close attention to some of the details about any version of the Hawke storyline; I knew there were probably specific details on timing that I haven't paid close attention to. We don't actually know how closely a Viscount Hawke and a Knight-Commander Cullen worked together; they may have cooperated, but had minimal contact, not necessarily have exchanged information (though I admit I prefer your versions of their history. ) She may even have mistakenly have believed Cullen was involved and not approached him for that reason. However, I'm not sure why you think the red templars (presumably getting red lyrium from Cory) wouldn't have immediately begun undermining a vicscountess Hawke - the implication is that Cory can influence them at a minimum through the red lyrium which has the darkspawn taint, just as he did wardens? And other templars might have privately blamed her for Ander's actions and stirred up trouble for her (we don't actually know what that trouble was). I suspect there are pieces you and Riverbanks are considering that I haven't fit in place yet, lol.
 
I know it would be nice to see a story from the Viscountess/pro-templar side, but since Samson refers to Knight Captain Cullen, this was clearly a non-Viscountess story. The writer had to pick one of the versions to write it, doesn't make it the sole cannon. I'd love to see the alternative with a viscountess and a Knight Commander Cullen. I do think they accidentally wrote themselves into a corner and couldn't see a way out that wouldn't require more time than a relatively minor (in the larger scheme of things) point of timing. And I think the contradiction may have come from them changing their minds on what would happen to Cullen rather than not caring about supporting a particular ending, and if, as we suspect, they originally intended him to have Samson's place, I'll concede the contradiction.

On whether or not Cullen would have known if "the templars" as a collective drove Hawke out of the city... hard to say, but I think that's splitting hairs at this point. There's ground to stand on with their current story telling, but it's small and receding and requires far more complication than any of the details they've shared so far. As such, it's logic defying unless they expect us to headcanon a convoluted tale to connect all their dots.

I'm prepared to assume that story components that were less popular were just given short shrift in the logic department. Pro-templar Viscountess Hawke, Ultimate Sacrifice Wardens, *cough* Dwarven Inquisitors *cough*, *cough*hack*da2!Cullen*cough*, among them. Even so, I think the "canon" that they choose in their stories, e.g., Samson's story, is probably the general story they intend to tell, which suggests that red lyrium potions for corrupting the templars came three years after Meredith died (9:40) and shortly before the proverbial red templar poop hit the fan, setting the stage for the events of DA:I in 9:41. The fact that this doesn't match the story of a Viscountess Hawke who left before that? Weeellll, I honestly think half the time the writers forget that there are three years between Act 3 and Cassandra's arrival in Kirkwall. So, cue story gymnastics.

[Tishina]

On whether or not Cullen would have known if "the templars" as a collective drove Hawke out of the city... hard to say, but I think that's splitting hairs at this point. There's ground to stand on with their current story telling, but it's small and receding and requires far more complication than any of the details they've shared so far. As such, it's logic defying unless they expect us to headcanon a convoluted tale to connect all their dots.

I'm prepared to assume that story components that were less popular were just given short shrift in the logic department. Pro-templar Viscountess Hawke, Ultimate Sacrifice Wardens, *cough* Dwarven Inquisitors *cough*, *cough*hack*da2!Cullen*cough*, among them. Even so, I think the "canon" that they choose in their stories, e.g., Samson's story, is probably the general story they intend to tell, which suggests that red lyrium potions for corrupting the templars came three years after Meredith died (9:40) and shortly before the proverbial red templar poop hit the fan, setting the stage for the events of DA:I in 9:41. The fact that this doesn't match the story of a Viscountess Hawke who left before that? Weeellll, I honestly think half the time the writers forget that there are three years between Act 3 and Cassandra's arrival in Kirkwall. So, cue story gymnastics.

This particular one is a bit weird, though, because the default, as I understand it, was originally a male Dalish warden who made the US. I'm not inclined to believe in the reliability of anything Samson remembers in a story, honestly. I do think we have to accept that in giving us a lot of options and multiple outcomes, occasionally they'll have to choose between a minor inconsistency or tossing out a large chunk of the new story they're trying to tell. Or simply force us to start over in a completely different time and place with no continuity between the stories or NPCs (which would probably lose me as a player; I'm not that thrilled that we have to start over completely every game in terms of PC and companions.) The Hawke story would have been consistent for all versions, after all, if Cullen had become the leader of the Red Templars instead of Samson (and therefore was the person leading the harassment of a Viscount Hawke) and was never recruited by Cassandra at all.

[R2s Muse]

This particular one is a bit weird, though, because the default, as I understand it, was originally a male Dalish warden who made the US. I'm not inclined to believe in the reliability of anything Samson remembers in a story, honestly. I do think we have to accept that in giving us a lot of options and multiple outcomes, occasionally they'll have to choose between a minor inconsistency or tossing out a large chunk of the new story they're trying to tell. Or simply force us to start over in a completely different time and place with no continuity between the stories or NPCs (which would probably lose me as a player; I'm not that thrilled that we have to start over completely every game in terms of PC and companions.) The Hawke story would have been consistent for all versions, after all, if Cullen had become the leader of the Red Templars instead of Samson (and therefore was the person leading the harassment of a Viscount Hawke) and was never recruited by Cassandra at all.

The default in the Keep doesn't have anything to do with the general canon they use for ancilliary products, tho, it's just usually the easiest starting point for their flags for that particular game.

Even so, the timing of Samson starting the push to create a red templar armor is hardly a minor detail. How Hawke split DA2 for a minority game choice is. Frankly, my feeling is that Samson meeting Cory at just that moment was the whole point of that short story, and the rest was just flavor. I mean, sure any story with a certain narrator can be unreliable, but it doesn't make sense to me that something like How Samson Met Corypheus would be subject to POV inconsistencies.

Anyway, I feel like I'm beating a dead horse now, so I think I'll stop.

Have a western Cullen instead.


Western Gents by ReaperClamp

[Tishina]

Agreed, especially since I suspect I'm missing something important about the timing because I'm a lot less familiar with that chronology. I wasn't disagreeing, I was trying to understand what I was missing since obviously you and Riverbank felt there was a real problem with it. Unfortunately, right now I don't have the time to try to work back through the lore I don't know very well (or possibly at all---and I suspect because of the way I think, I'd literally have to create multiple time lines to visualize each of story variations to see the contradictions) so I'll just take your word for now that there really is a major plot hole/contradiction in the story.

 

EDIT: Have a Cullen for top! Complete with a hopelessly flirtatious qunari...

[riverbanks]

...so I'll just take your word for now that there really is a major plot hole/contradiction in the story.

 

tl;dr version:

 

- Viscount Hawke says red templars ran her out of Kirkwall

- but Samson's story says red templars didn't exist until after Cullen's departure

- and when Cullen left with Cassandra, Hawke was already gone

- ????

 

It doesn't flow. Red templars made Viscount Hawke leave Kirkwall - except red templars didn't even exist until Hawke had already left. So unless there are time-travelling red templars involved (so they went back into the past to harass Hawke before they were created), or Hawke flat out lied about the reason she left Kirkwall (so it was never about red templars at all), or Hawke was hiding in Varric's basement the entire time he was being interrogated by Cassandra (so she only left after Cullen, Cass etc were gone), the timeline is broken.

 

It would've been so much simpler to just say in that story that Cullen left because Samson started bringing red lyrium into the ranks. There would be no plot holes or recursive broken timelines regardless of anyone's preferred ending, and we'd get a decent and sensible reason why Cullen just gave up before the Templar chapter in Kirkwall was in bad enough shape to be considered a lost cause. Just a single different line there would've made this whole thing make so much more sense.

[Sifr]

tl;dr version:

 

- Viscount Hawke says red templars ran her out of Kirkwall

- but Samson's story says red templars didn't exist until after Cullen's departure

- and when Cullen left with Cassandra, Hawke was already gone

- ????

 

It doesn't flow. Red templars made Viscount Hawke leave Kirkwall - except red templars didn't even exist until Hawke had already left. So unless there are time-travelling red templars involved (so they went back into the past to harass Hawke before they were created), or Hawke flat out lied about the reason she left Kirkwall (so it was never about red templars at all), or Hawke was hiding in Varric's basement the entire time he was being interrogated by Cassandra (so she only left after Cullen, Cass etc were gone), the timeline is broken.

 

It would've been so much simpler to just say in that story that Cullen left because Samson started bringing red lyrium into the ranks. There would be no plot holes or recursive broken timelines regardless of anyone's preferred ending, and we'd get a decent and sensible reason why Cullen just gave up before the Templar chapter in Kirkwall was in bad enough shape to be considered a lost cause. Just a single different line there would've made this whole thing make so much more sense.

 

I think the entire plotholes can be reconciled if we subscribe to the theory that Bioware has quietly decided that DA2 and everything relating to it are never going to be addressed ever again, as a final indignity to a game that was screwed by EA from day one.

 

I can imagine that the later editions of World of Thedas will show the timeline between 9:30 and 9:40 as completely blank and Kirkwall's entry will later be amended to read something along the lines of;

 

"In 9:34 and 9:37 of the Dragon Age, absolutely nothing important or of consequence happened there at all.

There was a flock of seagulls and some mages got mad, but that's about it."

 

As someone who loves DA2, I can sadly see that actually happening, given how utterly irrelevant DA2's events became in DAI.

 

[riverbanks]

As someone who loves DA2, I can sadly see that actually happening, given how utterly irrelevant DA2's events became in DAI.

 

Yes, as someone whose favorite game in the frachise is still DA2, I refuse to accept all this sweeping under the carpet too. They can keep taking potshots at DA2, but until they give me a DA game with a better written story and with a more interesting cast of characters than that one, I will stay resolute that both the game and its fans merit more respect than a casual handwave.

[Tishina]

tl;dr version:

 

- Viscount Hawke says red templars ran her out of Kirkwall

- but Samson's story says red templars didn't exist until after Cullen's departure

- and when Cullen left with Cassandra, Hawke was already gone

- ????

 

It doesn't flow. Red templars made Viscount Hawke leave Kirkwall - except red templars didn't even exist until Hawke had already left. So unless there are time-travelling red templars involved (so they went back into the past to harass Hawke before they were created), or Hawke flat out lied about the reason she left Kirkwall (so it was never about red templars at all), or Hawke was hiding in Varric's basement the entire time he was being interrogated by Cassandra (so she only left after Cullen, Cass etc were gone), the timeline is broken.

 

It would've been so much simpler to just say in that story that Cullen left because Samson started bringing red lyrium into the ranks. There would be no plot holes or recursive broken timelines regardless of anyone's preferred ending, and we'd get a decent and sensible reason why Cullen just gave up before the Templar chapter in Kirkwall was in bad enough shape to be considered a lost cause. Just a single different line there would've made this whole thing make so much more sense.

OK. I guess 1) I wasn't taking Samson's memory of events as reliable/unmodified by Cory in regards to the origins of the Red Templars in Kirkwall, and 2) I'm assuming the timing of their origin might differ depending on no-viscount/viscount ending. Your suggestion makes sense, but they may simply not have thought of that option, or may have realized there was a contradiction until it would have required too much alteration to undo once they did.

 

I guess I'm a little bothered by the sense that people think they did it intentionally to wave away that ending because they don't like it or don't care that people like that one. I take pokes at the absurdity of some of the dwarven dialogue and scenes in DAI not because I think they did them on purpose or blew them off (with the exception of handwaving height differences whenever they were inconvenient.) I poke fun at them because I hope someone will remember the comments next time and maybe take the time to write dialogue for a dwarf reacting to an encounter with the Fade, for instance (other than the one very brief Varric line in DA2, apparently dwarves are oblivious, lol.) I poke at the narrow range of female body type representation for the same reason, so maybe someone will remember that at least a few people would sometimes enjoy something that doesn't reinforce media messages about what's acceptable for women instead of the real spectrum.

[Alejandrawrr]

On an unrelated note, does anyone know what material that fluffy stuff on Cullen's shoulders are? I've never been able to tell if that's meant be fur or feathers, from the in game model or concept art 

[R2s Muse]

On an unrelated note, does anyone know what material that fluffy stuff on Cullen's shoulders are? I've never been able to tell if that's meant be fur or feathers, from the in game model or concept art 

The devs has said that it's dyed bear fur.

[Tishina]

On an unrelated note, does anyone know what material that fluffy stuff on Cullen's shoulders are? I've never been able to tell if that's meant be fur or feathers, from the in game model or concept art 

The devs said it's supposed to be bear fur...

 

Edited: by R2s Muse