138873 réponses à ce sujet

[riverbanks]

I guess I'm a little bothered by the sense that people think they did it intentionally to wave away that ending because they don't like it or don't care that people like that one.

 

Oh I don't think they did it intentionally to hurt people who played this or that ending or anything, I just think they don't care about that ending since it doesn't correspond to their internal preferences, and thus they make zero effort to acommodate for it, forgeting that, you know, players still care even if they don't. Which stings. It's not actually a big deal, like, I'm not crying into my cheerios about it, or writing strongly worded letters to the board. It just stings. My preferred endings continuously get ignored and handwaved, game after game, and it kinda sucks to sit here and see the other endings get all the awesome extra content and backstory and canon contextualization, while I either get nothing for my choices (like the US in DAO), or only get more and more contradictions and plot holes to solve via headcanon (only to have the writers mocking the notion of headcanons on the regular, too). It's just, you know, a bummer.

 

I don't even think they should put extra effort into making tons of differential content for every different choice, I just wish that they were more neutral about things. Like I said, a single different line about Cullen in that story would have made it neutral enough that any players could relate to it and apply it to their own game, regardless of their ending preference. It's a bummer that, again, they blatantly favor one side while disregarding the other, when the text could have so easily been made neutral and satisfying to all players with just a little different wording.

[R2s Muse]

I guess I'm a little bothered by the sense that people think they did it intentionally to wave away that ending because they don't like it or don't care that people like that one. 

I don't think anyone is genuinely suggesting they flubbed up the timeline to p!ss off the fans or intended to deliberately ignore DA2. But the ending of DA2 and the timing with Cassandra's arrival and her utter lack of knowledge about what happened and how Cullen fit into all and was positioned for the future, that has been problematic for four years now. We have over 9000 thread pages dedicated to speculating how his story will be resolved in the next game. Some of us have been waiting with bated breath to find out, once and for all, how it all fit together, and what happened off camera during those years, and when we do... the answers don't make sense. Not a big deal for someone who hasn't really cared about those holes, but for those of us who have, it's frustrating. Acknowledging that it doesn't make sense isn't assigning evil intent. It's acknowledging that something we love has errors. And being sad about it. And trying to find a way to make it work in your head (especially when you've written hundreds of thousands of words about that exact time period).

[R2s Muse]

 
Commander Cullen by DandyBee

[sagefic]

I think the entire plotholes can be reconciled if we subscribe to the theory that Bioware has quietly decided that DA2 and everything relating to it are never going to be addressed ever again, as a final indignity to a game that was screwed by EA from day one.

 

I can imagine that the later editions of World of Thedas will show the timeline between 9:30 and 9:40 as completely blank and Kirkwall's entry will later be amended to read something along the lines of;

 

"In 9:34 and 9:37 of the Dragon Age, absolutely nothing important or of consequence happened there at all.

There was a flock of seagulls and some mages got mad, but that's about it."

 

As someone who loves DA2, I can sadly see that actually happening, given how utterly irrelevant DA2's events became in DAI.

 

 

"Among the seagulls, there was a Hawke hawk. It flew into the Fade at Adamant and Varric cried. Then he got over it and played Wicked Grace with Cole and Solas. He lost and had to buy Solas a bunch of books on dream magic as part of their bet. Cole asked for a bunny. The end."

[Alejandrawrr]

The devs has said that it's dyed bear fur.

 

 

The devs said it's supposed to be bear fur...

 

Edited: by R2s Muse

Thanks, funny that I was seriously leaning toward some kind of exotic Thedosian ostrich/terror bird/chocobo's feathers 

[Sifr]

I don't think anyone is genuinely suggesting they flubbed up the timeline to p!ss off the fans or intended to deliberately ignore DA2. But the ending of DA2 and the timing with Cassandra's arrival and her utter lack of knowledge about what happened and how Cullen fit into all and was positioned for the future, that has been problematic for four years now. We have over 9000 thread pages dedicated to speculating how his story will be resolved in the next game. Some of us have been waiting with bated breath to find out, once and for all, how it all fit together, and what happened off camera during those years, and when we do... the answers don't make sense. Not a big deal for someone who hasn't really cared about those holes, but for those of us who have, it's frustrating. Acknowledging that it doesn't make sense isn't assigning evil intent. It's acknowledging that something we love has errors. And being sad about it. And trying to find a way to make it work in your head (especially when you've written hundreds of thousands of words about that exact time period).

 

Exactly this.

 

It's the same problem as the post-DAO timeline when it comes to Awakening and Witch Hunt, as we've still never properly reconciled the issue of how Anders, Sandal and Bodahn were present for those events that took place supposedly over two years, yet were all in Kirkwall for 9:31?

 

The only way is to assume that DA2's Acts take place over multiple years, which would allow these discrepancies to be solved?

 

That way, Anders will have had more time to be a Warden, deal with the events in Amaranthine and then go AWOL and arrive in Kirkwall before Bodahn and Sandal did, as they refer to going to the Circle Tower to find out more about Sandal's abilities which happened in Witch Hunt, so they had to have been in Ferelden for a while after Awakening took place? This also assumes that DA2 (or at least Varric's narration) was wrong to have them be able to be encountered before Anders does, because they actually arrived after he did?

 

It's still a shame that we have to figure this out instead of it actually being addressed properly when it comes to these kinds of continuity snarls?

[Tishina]

I don't think anyone is genuinely suggesting they flubbed up the timeline to p!ss off the fans or intended to deliberately ignore DA2. But the ending of DA2 and the timing with Cassandra's arrival and her utter lack of knowledge about what happened and how Cullen fit into all and was positioned for the future, that has been problematic for four years now. We have over 9000 thread pages dedicated to speculating how his story will be resolved in the next game. Some of us have been waiting with bated breath to find out, once and for all, how it all fit together, and what happened off camera during those years, and when we do... the answers don't make sense. Not a big deal for someone who hasn't really cared about those holes, but for those of us who have, it's frustrating. Acknowledging that it doesn't make sense isn't assigning evil intent. It's acknowledging that something we love has errors. And being sad about it. And trying to find a way to make it work in your head (especially when you've written hundreds of thousands of words about that exact time period).

I understand, it's particularly frustrating for people like you who've tried to write about the interval between games to find out there's no way to make it work out right because they've presented you with contradictions and have also spent years wanting answers that now make no sense. I do have to admit, they devoted so much time to Cullen compared to other stories, I'd rather they have put more time into fixing some of the other stories in DAI. But I admit that's easy for me since I have much less attachment to DA2 and even somewhat less to Cullen himself, as much as I do like him. (Then again, I wish they'd allocated less time/resources for fetch quests and combat animations generally and more on story, especially for the individual races.)

[Tishina]

Thanks, funny that I was seriously leaning toward some kind of exotic Thedosian ostrich/terror bird/chocobo's feathers 

S'ok, when I first saw it last year, I thought it looked like the collars from some of the mage armor, and I thought maybe it was a Templar trophy

[The Elder King]

Exactly this.
 
It's the same problem as the post-DAO timeline when it comes to Awakening and Witch Hunt, as we've still never properly reconciled the issue of how Anders, Sandal and Bodahn were present for those events that took place supposedly over two years, yet were all in Kirkwall for 9:31?
 
The only way is to assume that DA2's Acts take place over multiple years, which would allow these discrepancies to be solved?
 
That way, Anders will have had more time to be a Warden, deal with the events in Amaranthine and then go AWOL and arrive in Kirkwall before Bodahn and Sandal did, as they refer to going to the Circle Tower to find out more about Sandal's abilities which happened in Witch Hunt, so they had to have been in Ferelden for a while after Awakening took place? This also assumes that DA2 (or at least Varric's narration) was wrong to have them be able to be encountered before Anders does, because they actually arrived after he did?
 
It's still a shame that we have to figure this out instead of it actually being addressed properly when it comes to these kinds of continuity snarls?

Yeah. While I do hope they'll avoid Those issues in the future, I won't be very optimistic.
Hopefully the possible change of setting in the North might help avoiding them.

[R2s Muse]

I understand, it's particularly frustrating for people like you who've tried to write about the interval between games to find out there's no way to make it work out right because they've presented you with contradictions and have also spent years wanting answers that now make no sense. I do have to admit, they devoted so much time to Cullen compared to other stories, I'd rather they have put more time into fixing some of the other stories in DAI. But I admit that's easy for me since I have much less attachment to DA2 and even somewhat less to Cullen himself, as much as I do like him. (Then again, I wish they'd allocated less time/resources for fetch quests and combat animations generally and more on story, especially for the individual races.)

Understandable. And, personally, while I'd love a short story from Cullen's POV, I agree there's quite a bit of content in game already on him. But none of it really explains how he got there, and when it tries... it's discordant with the past. I'm ok with a short explanation... so long as it makes sense. [[edit to add: incidentally, this is why we need to go on random comments like the two sentences on him in Samson's story. That's their main way of telling us these things, so we can't immediately discount them.]]
 

Exactly this.
 
It's the same problem as the post-DAO timeline when it comes to Awakening and Witch Hunt, as we've still never properly reconciled the issue of how Anders, Sandal and Bodahn were present for those events that took place supposedly over two years, yet were all in Kirkwall for 9:31?
 
The only way is to assume that DA2's Acts take place over multiple years, which would allow these discrepancies to be solved?
 
That way, Anders will have had more time to be a Warden, deal with the events in Amaranthine and then go AWOL and arrive in Kirkwall before Bodahn and Sandal did, as they refer to going to the Circle Tower to find out more about Sandal's abilities which happened in Witch Hunt, so they had to have been in Ferelden for a while after Awakening took place? This also assumes that DA2 (or at least Varric's narration) was wrong to have them be able to be encountered before Anders does, because they actually arrived after he did?
 
It's still a shame that we have to figure this out instead of it actually being addressed properly when it comes to these kinds of continuity snarls?

Yeah. While I do hope they'll avoid Those issues in the future, I won't be very optimistic.
Hopefully the possible change of setting in the North might help avoiding them.

Agree. Although, with Awakenings... boy, they sure dug themselves into a hole with that. I don't even know how they get out of it except to start negating things like Anders's whole backstory as a healer in Kirkwall.

I'm also optimistic that less of that will happen now the they have BGelinas on the job... altho they still totally frakked up the Asunder and Nevarran accord timeline, evenso. If I had a dollar for all the timeline mistakes in Asunder itself, plus all the incorrect codex dates about it in DA:I...?
Me <-- rich woman.

[Cozmikitty]

 Commander Cullen by DandyBee

That's the sexy pissed look he gives to his helper right before he plants a hot kiss of "That's what I wanted"

[Cozmikitty]

YAY!!! Ty for sharing! Stoked

[Tishina]

*snort* OK, I thought the undyed pajamas were bad on my Dalish and my dwarves. On my male qunari? He not only looks 3 days dead, his neck clips through the back of the collar in a major way in cutscenes.

[R2s Muse]

*snort* OK, I thought the undyed pajamas were bad on my Dalish and my dwarves. On my male qunari? He not only looks 3 days dead, his neck clips through the back of the collar in a major way in cutscenes.

ohno! seriously? I want to roll a dude next, maybe, for Dorian but is there a lot of clipping in general with the Qunari?

[Tishina]

ohno! seriously? I want to roll a dude next, maybe, for Dorian but is there a lot of clipping in general with the Qunari?

First, I love my qunari guy, though he was supposed to be for Dorian and now he won't make up his mind between Dorian and Cass     The personal messages you get from your tal'vashoth buddy at the war table are a riot - he refers to the Inquisition's heraldry as the "hairy eyeball people." And apparently one of your buddies writes really bad poetry...

 

The neck is the only clipping I've seen, and it doesn't show up all the time. But it's too bad, those d****d pajamas would look good on him in a different color and with that fixed - they look horrible on male and female dwarves, of course.

And a better one of him, making Cullen look petite, I'm afraid

[Caja]

[...]

 

 

And a better one of him, making Cullen look petite, I'm afraid

 

I haven't noticed it before and it might be a matter of the perspective in this screenshot, but Cullen doesn't look much taller than Leliana or Josie. Either he isn't a very tall man (which is perfectly alright) or the ladies are wearing high heels . 

[Tishina]

BTW, on the subject of handwaving past games, you do realize the Brosca/Dwarf commoner origin in DAO has been rendered completely impossible by their redesign of female dwarves to make them about half as wide in the shoulders as male dwarves? The entire point of that origin, and the reason Duncan gets to recruit her, is that she puts on a male warrior's armor and impersonates him in combat (with her helm closed) through to the final round of a proving without anyone noticing she's a male until the drunken-but-famous-sot she's impersonating stumbles onto the field at the beginning of the final bout. There is absolutely no way she could successfully have fought in armor that much too big without it being obvious, or, if she altered it to fit her, that every single dwarf in Orzammar who got into the proving, including the sot's friends, didn't notice that was a woman and not a man. So, she not only committed the ultimate crime in Orzammar, she apparently was practicing blood magic (never mind that dwarves don't have magic) to confuse the minds of the entire city of Orzammar...

[Tishina]

I haven't noticed it before and it might be a matter of the perspective in this screenshot, but Cullen doesn't look much taller than Leliana or Josie. Either he isn't a very tall man (which is perfectly alright) or the ladies are wearing high heels . 

I've noticed his height varies some, but I think that's mostly perspective there. Leliana's pretty tall, so I don't think he's supposed to be much taller. Josephine is standing forward of them some, which makes her look taller than she is.

 

Of course, height isn't necessarily an advantage for a warrior. Someone shorter with a lower center of gravity can be more stable and harder to unbalance in combat, especially if they have serious chest and shoulder muscle development (like male dwarves.)

 

Edited for top: Poor Cullen on the spot about his intentions...

[Sifr]

BTW, on the subject of handwaving past games, you do realize the Brosca/Dwarf commoner origin in DAO has been rendered completely impossible by their redesign of female dwarves to make them about half as wide in the shoulders as male dwarves? The entire point of that origin, and the reason Duncan gets to recruit her, is that she puts on a male warrior's armor and impersonates him in combat (with her helm closed) through to the final round of a proving without anyone noticing she's a male until the drunken-but-famous-sot she's impersonating stumbles onto the field at the beginning of the final bout. There is absolutely no way she could successfully have fought in armor that much too big without it being obvious, or, if she altered it to fit her, that every single dwarf in Orzammar who got into the proving, including the sot's friends, didn't notice that was a woman and not a man. So, she not only committed the ultimate crime in Orzammar, she apparently was practicing blood magic (never mind that dwarves don't have magic) to confuse the minds of the entire city of Orzammar...

 

My headcanon that resolves this problem is that the armour was too big for Fem!Brosca, but she's such a badass she was still able to beat her opponents despite the handicap. Because c'mon, she was already able to beat Deep Roads veterans despite having no formal training and only rusty, sub-standard weapons to practice with... so I think we can assume that she's that much of a legitimate badass to be able to handle badly fitting armour as well?

 

Going by the Origins alone, Fem!Brosca and Fem!Tabris are the two most hardcore women in the entire game, simply because they are largely self-taught compared to the other Wardens, who had noble training or help from experienced Dalish warriors to fall back on.

 

[Tishina]

My headcanon that resolves this problem is that the armour was too big for Fem!Brosca, but she's such a badass she was still able to beat her opponents despite the handicap. Because c'mon, she was already able to beat Deep Roads veterans despite having no formal training and only rusty, sub-standard weapons to practice with... so I think we can assume that she's that much of a legitimate badass to be able to handle badly fitting armour as well?

 

Going by the Origins alone, Fem!Brosca and Fem!Tabris are the two most hardcore women in the entire game, simply because they are largely self-taught compared to the other Wardens, who had noble training or help from experienced Dalish warriors to fall back on.

 

*snort* Well, the fact they're so badass is the reason the Tabris and Brosca origins are my favorites, and my favorite PTs. But the idea that a woman the size of DAI female dwarves could put on armor meant to fit a male dwarf and fake it through that many fights without anyone noticing just isn't believable. Armor just doesn't work that way...

[Sifr]

*snort* Well, the fact they're so badass is the reason the Tabris and Brosca origins are my favorites, and my favorite PTs. But the idea that a woman the size of DAI female dwarves could put on armor meant to fit a male dwarf and fake it through that many fights without anyone noticing just isn't believable. Armor just doesn't work that way...

 

Perhaps she decided to use some kind of padding... or shoved Leske inside the armour and told him to not make a sound?

 

Brosca: Leske, are you grabbing my...

Leske: Just helping to support your ample bosom, Salroka!

 

[riverbanks]

I haven't noticed it before and it might be a matter of the perspective in this screenshot, but Cullen doesn't look much taller than Leliana or Josie. Either he isn't a very tall man (which is perfectly alright) or the ladies are wearing high heels . 

 

I think it's a casualty of cutscenes usually being animated for the male PC first and the transition to the female PC not being that polished (gorilla walk and all), but whenever Trevelyan and Hawke talk to Cullen, they both consistently look down at him, and he looks up at them. This has made me think for the longest time now that Cullen is of pretty average to short height, and definitely shorter than them. But then, Trev and Hawke seem pretty tall overall, I remember Trev looking eye-level at Leliana and Hawke looking eye-level at Sebastian (both characters who, due to their lean design and eye position in conversations, look much taller than everyone else).

 

So, yeah. Tall girls, short Cullen. Blackwall and Alistair are also notably short and stocky by design, and it's kinda adorable that these big meaty warrior guys can sometimes look like little pups next to their taller girlfriends.

[Tishina]

Perhaps she decided to use some kind of padding... or shoved Leske inside the armour and told him to not make a sound?

 

Brosca: Leske, are you grabbing my...

Leske: Just helping to support your ample bosom, Salroka!

 

  Except my Brosca would have removed some vital parts if he did that...

[Sifr]

  Except my Brosca would have removed some vital parts if he did that...

 

"Focus Brosca, glory now, dismembering (and dissing his member) later."

 

[riverbanks]

BTW, on the subject of handwaving past games, you do realize the Brosca/Dwarf commoner origin in DAO has been rendered completely impossible by their redesign of female dwarves to make them about half as wide in the shoulders as male dwarves? The entire point of that origin, and the reason Duncan gets to recruit her, is that she puts on a male warrior's armor and impersonates him in combat (with her helm closed) through to the final round of a proving without anyone noticing she's a male until the drunken-but-famous-sot she's impersonating stumbles onto the field at the beginning of the final bout.

 

I suppose we could headcanon that Brosca was just a big, tall, bulky, Gwendoline Christie-type of girl... but I prefer to headcanon that the new DAI proportions don't exist and my dwarf PCs are still actual dwarves, not prettified hobbits.