138873 réponses à ce sujet

[Sifr]

   I think we don't know the extent of his involvement yet. All we know is that the weapon Corypheus used to kill those people was something he got from Solas. It was Cory who killed them. To call Solas directly responsible is still jumping to conclusions. If we're assigning indirect blame, one could say the Elven Pantheon are responsible because they caused Solas to want to reactive his focus to save them. And the dominoes can keep falling.

 

Exactly, saying that Solas is responsible for the destruction of the Conclave, is like saying the Warden is responsible for destroying the Chantry?

 

After all, in Awakening the Warden recruited Anders in the Grey Wardens to save him from being taken back to the Circle by the Templars, as well as introduced him to Justice? But I doubt anyone would actually blame the Warden for Anders' deeds, even if they are indirectly responsible for setting Anders on the path that would lead to them?

 

Same with Solas, while he might have given Corypheus the Orb, we cannot know that he ever suspected what Corypheus would decide to do with it, nor believe that he could have used in the manner in which he did?

[R2s Muse]

Exactly, saying that Solas is responsible for the destruction of the Conclave, is like saying the Warden is responsible for destroying the Chantry?

After all, in Awakening the Warden recruited Anders in the Grey Wardens to save him from being taken back to the Circle by the Templars, as well as introduced him to Justice? But I doubt anyone would actually blame the Warden for Anders' deeds, even if they are indirectly responsible for setting Anders on the path that would lead to them?

Same with Solas, while he might have given Corypheus the Orb, we cannot know that he ever suspected what Corypheus would decide to do with it, nor believe that he could have used in the manner in which he did?

Exactly to this. To my knowledge, there is no evidence that he knew what Cory was going to do except power up the orb. Only circumstantial evidence on one side that he gave the orb to Cory and that he was seen in Haven right before the explosion so presumably must've known *something* was about to happen. Beyond that all we know is that "it was not supposed to happen like this."

Now, if he did know and the Conclave deaths were just collateral damage, then sure, consequences. [edited to add: And, not caring about the deaths as collateral damage admittedly would be in character from the blurb in the game files about how he's willing to kill anyone to achieve his own ends.] But we really have no idea yet, and I can headcanon just as many scenarios where he never intended anything like this to happen, and Cory ran off to use his orb against his wishes or will. Only time will tell.

[R2s Muse]

Thanks for everyone for replying. I think my reluctance came about from Cullen in Inquisition getting angry at the Inquisitor for allying with the Mages, saying "there will be abominations among them" like having no faith in the Mage's self control, and later when he says "Meredith's methods were harsh, but they kept people safe" when, to me, they didn't keep Mages safe. And then in Jaws in Hakkon when

Spoiler

you can recruit an Avvar Mage who bonded with a spirit and a War Table mission to have them talk to scholars about it has his option: "This is madness. If you must, have this Avvar Abomination meet with our own scholars. In a small room. Far from anything. With a templar present.” Like, he thinks this person is a monster and has no respect for their customs. Or maybe I'm expecting too much for him to put faith in the Avvar Mage after he saw how much damage a Mage bonding with a Spirit can cause because of the Fereldan and Kirkwall Circle?

FWIW, Cullen has the same angry things to say if you ally with the templars. He's just angry after those two quests. I think whether or not Meredith's methods kept people safe is debatable, but I don't think he ever states that he supported her methods and in fact says the opposite. I think a lot of this is the gray area of whether you need templars at all, and we know where he stands on that. But admittedly, there are little things like this that are inconsistent sometimes, like his comments on recruiting more templars because folks would be lying to them. 

[Tishina]

Thanks for everyone for replying. I think my reluctance came about from Cullen in Inquisition getting angry at the Inquisitor for allying with the Mages, saying "there will be abominations among them" like having no faith in the Mage's self control, and later when he says "Meredith's methods were harsh, but they kept people safe" when, to me, they didn't keep Mages safe. And then in Jaws in Hakkon when

Spoiler

you can recruit an Avvar Mage who bonded with a spirit and a War Table mission to have them talk to scholars about it has his option: "This is madness. If you must, have this Avvar Abomination meet with our own scholars. In a small room. Far from anything. With a templar present.” Like, he thinks this person is a monster and has no respect for their customs. Or maybe I'm expecting too much for him to put faith in the Avvar Mage after he saw how much damage a Mage bonding with a Spirit can cause because of the Fereldan and Kirkwall Circle?

 

FWIW, Cullen has the same angry things to say if you ally with the templars. He's just angry after those two quests. I think whether or not Meredith's methods kept people safe is debatable, but I don't think he ever states that he supported her methods and in fact says the opposite. I think a lot of this is the gray area of whether you need templars at all, and we know where he stands on that. But admittedly, there are little things like this that are inconsistent sometimes, like his comments on recruiting more templars because folks would be lying to them. 

What R2 says (and I've played it both ways). It has more to do with you making a decision without consulting the advisors in the first case since you aren't actually in charge yet. As for the other,

Spoiler

it might be expecting a bit much from someone trained in the Chantry and who went through both Kinloch Hold and the destruction of Kirkwall's chantry (as well as  what Orsino does at the end) to think he wouldn't be extremely concerned by someone who is technically an abomination. As far as we've been presented, the only time that's ended well has been the one bonded with Wynne, then Evangeline, I think. I don't think either situation suggests that he's going to turn on a mage LI, at least not for simply being a mage.

[FFZero]

Thanks for everyone for replying. I think my reluctance came about from Cullen in Inquisition getting angry at the Inquisitor for allying with the Mages, saying "there will be abominations among them" like having no faith in the Mage's self control, and later when he says "Meredith's methods were harsh, but they kept people safe" when, to me, they didn't keep Mages safe. And then in Jaws in Hakkon when

Spoiler

you can recruit an Avvar Mage who bonded with a spirit and a War Table mission to have them talk to scholars about it has his option: "This is madness. If you must, have this Avvar Abomination meet with our own scholars. In a small room. Far from anything. With a templar present.” Like, he thinks this person is a monster and has no respect for their customs. Or maybe I'm expecting too much for him to put faith in the Avvar Mage after he saw how much damage a Mage bonding with a Spirit can cause because of the Fereldan and Kirkwall Circle?

 

I think he’s inconsistent on stuff like this because he’s still trying to figure out just where he stands.   In a way he’s sort of similar to Vivienne, he believes in a lot of the old school chantry beliefs about mages and magic. Aside from the trauma he’s experienced tainting his views on mages he’s having to challenge long held beliefs instilled in him by the chantry from a young age. Because of that he’s more likely to make a kneejerk reaction towards certain things that completely go against Chantry teachings like that side quest from JoH. Unlike Vivienne however he is willing to change his stance. I think if given enough time to see how certain things play out, like the Avvar business, his opinion would change slightly. Take Cole for example, at first he probably had an opinion similar to Vivienne or Sera, that’s he a demon that needs to be destroyed. Over the course of the game however it feels like his opinion/relationship with Cole shifts to a more neutral stance if not somewhat friendly. He’s still unnerved by him clearly but he calls him by his name and is willing to play wicked grace with him which is worlds apart from other characters.  

 

(I know some of you will disagree with the Vivienne analogy….please put the pitch forks away ) 

[FFZero]

   I think we don't know the extent of his involvement yet. All we know is that the weapon Corypheus used to kill those people was something he got from Solas. It was Cory who killed them. To call Solas directly responsible is still jumping to conclusions. If we're assigning indirect blame, one could say the Elven Pantheon are responsible because they caused Solas to want to reactive his focus to save them. And the dominoes can keep falling.

 

While I agree with you that there is a lot of stuff that we don't know I would just like to point out that Cory says that his plan at the conclave had been in the works for years, so in theory Solas must have been involved with said plans to some degree. I find it hard to believe that Cory would've been able to hide his intentions from Solas, he seems like the type of bad guy that would like to brag about his great big master plan.

[R2s Muse]

I think he’s inconsistent on stuff like this because he’s still trying to figure out just where he stands.  

TBH I think it's probably more likely plain old inconsistencies between writers. For example, his writer wasn't part of Jaws of Hakkon and I suspect some of Cullen's function in DA:I was simplified in a lot of cases to be "the templar" in the story. Like how his personal issue has been turned into lyrium, and so his issue with random Avvar mages becomes the fact that templars would be suspicious of new magic. His diatribe earlier in the story when you first meet him in Haven about how templars should be the ones to fix the Breach felt similar. In fact, it set off some of the fans when that clip came out, thinking he was Aggro templar guy in this game.

[FFZero]

TBH I think it's probably more likely plain old inconsistencies between writers. For example, his writer wasn't part of Jaws of Hakkon and I suspect some of Cullen's function in DA:I was simplified in a lot of cases to be "the templar" in the story. Like how his personal issue has been turned into lyrium, and so his issue with random Avvar mages becomes the fact that templars would be suspicious of new magic. His diatribe earlier in the story when you first meet him in Haven about how templars should be the ones to fix the Breach felt similar. In fact, it set off some of the fans when that clip came out, thinking he was Aggro templar guy in this game.

 

 

Probably, Maker knows how many people his character has been written by in the series but I’m going with what I said as my headcanon reason  

[R2s Muse]

While I agree with you that there is a lot of stuff that we don't know I would just like to point out that Cory says that his plan at the conclave had been in the works for years, so in theory Solas must have been involved with said plans to some degree. I find it hard to believe that Cory would've been able to hide his intentions from Solas, he seems like the type of bad guy that would like to brag about his great big master plan.

but we also don't know how far in advance that plan involved the orb. I don't want to keep splitting hairs. There are a lot of suspicions that can rest firmly on Solas's shoulders. The fact that he clearly feels guilty for what happened, and Mythal herself implies his responsibility as well, suggest he deserves some blame. But we don't know yet, nor if the larger story even vindicates his actions. All we have are guesses.

[Annarl]

He killed my favorite character on screen, and he's responsible for all those deaths at the Conclave. He. Will. Burn.

 

I don't know if he actually did.  Depends on what they are doing with the story.

 

But hunting him down will be fun. 

[Hellion Rex]

I don't know if he actually did.  Depends on what they are doing with the story.

 

But hunting him down will be fun. 

To hell with the story! His ass has a fireball headed its way.

[Cantina]

I'm willing to bet my pretty cunning Jayne hat that that totally gets handwaived/not mentioned at all come Wolf Hunt.

 

Here is the thing I don't get: Why are people talking about the DLC "Wolf Hunt" as if it has been confirmed to be happening? As far as my reach has gone there is no indication there will be one let alone at all. Right now speculation is geared more towards The Deep Roads given a Bioware employee made a comment about it.

 

Its possible the ending maybe a setup for the next game, not a DLC. IMO using this so called imaginary wish of a "Wolf Hunt" DLC to make a point is like a giant hole in a bucket trying to retain water. 

[FFZero]

Here is the thing I don't get: Why are people talking about the DLC "Wolf Hunt" as if it has been confirmed to be happening? As far as my reach has gone there is no indication there will be one let alone at all. Right now speculation is geared more towards The Deep Roads given a Bioware employee made a comment about it.

 

Its possible the ending maybe a setup for the next game, not a DLC. IMO using this so called imaginary wish of a "Wolf Hunt" DLC to make a point is like a giant hole in a bucket trying to retain water. 

 

While they haven’t explicitly said there will be a wolf hunt DLC they have said that they will be addressing stuff to do with Solas in DLC. I think it was mentioned in the Kotaku Q&A thing where they mentioned the darkspawn DLC.

[Cantina]

While they haven’t explicitly said there will be a wolf hunt DLC they have said that they will be addressing stuff to do with Solas in DLC. I think it was mentioned in the Kotaku Q&A thing where they mentioned the darkspawn DLC

 

 

LOL! That would be interesting DLC....find out not only that Solas is an elven god, but also the one who helped the magistrates enter the Golden City/Black City.

[Tishina]

Here is the thing I don't get: Why are people talking about the DLC "Wolf Hunt" as if it has been confirmed to be happening? As far as my reach has gone there is no indication there will be one let alone at all. Right now speculation is geared more towards The Deep Roads given a Bioware employee made a comment about it.

 

Its possible the ending maybe a setup for the next game, not a DLC. IMO using this so called imaginary wish of a "Wolf Hunt" DLC to make a point is like a giant hole in a bucket trying to retain water. 

I don't know that anyone's assuming it's a thing, we're all just speculating, but it's based on apparent remarks by Weekes and Gaider in an interview that the Solas ending was supposed to be the start of a quest. It's not illogical to think they might still make it part of a DLC if they already put some work into it. And frankly, it's probably the one thing most people really want answered. Me, I can take or leave the Deep Roads (I find them tedious after the first few dozen dark spawn, spiders, and deepstalkers, anyway) unless it has some significant dwarven content or finally answers some questions about what the blight is.

[zestalyn]

going nuts over this Regency-era Cullen


source

I always get so flustered when I watch period dramas because men look SOOOOOOOO AMAZING in slim-fitted tailcoats, revealing breeches, and tall, sexy equestrian boots. It's really a shame none of those things, especially the universal tall boot (they're just boots. and ironically, its not like women historically wore them first...) are considered "wearable" by the typical hetero-male. Such a waste lol

My point being: Cullen + Regency costume = all my dreams

[MelissaGT]

It doesn't move, unfortunately.

I'm still new to modding so I really have no idea how to add physics to the hair

 

I'm still going to try it out! I will post some good high-rez screenies. 

 

Just the fact that you were able to mod it is such an accomplishment! Modding games is something that has always been beyond my grasp so my hat goes off to you!

[Asperath]

Ok. But let's draw that line of thought out though. He obviously knew what Cory was capable of, given that he willingly gave the Orb to him so it could be unlocked. The only thing he didn't account for was that Cory would survive the explosion. So, in my opinion, he is directly responsible.

 

Exactly to this. To my knowledge, there is no evidence that he knew what Cory was going to do except power up the orb. Only circumstantial evidence on one side that he gave the orb to Cory and that he was seen in Haven right before the explosion so presumably must've known *something* was about to happen. Beyond that all we know is that "it was not supposed to happen like this."
 

 

Considering how long Solas may of been asleep he may not even of experienced a darkspawn before in person before (I mean "awake") & he doesn't fit the normal description of a darkspawn etc. Sure he's probably seen a lot since. Also makes me wonder if Cory is the one who woke him from his slumber. I wonder if he's awoken numerous times to go to different sites to visit the fade there or if a lot of that happened after he woke up, which means Cory could of been planning this/had the orb for awhile. He may of sensed Cory was powerful but maybe not to the extent to do what he did... also I hope somehow Flemeth will be back **please**

 

All this just makes me think Solas is just an extremely powerful dreamer from a time possibly before the veil which explains his connection to spirits and had far more knowledge & power (including the other elven gods) after the veil. Heck, they may just me spirits who got caught on the wrong side in a physical shell.

 

I hope a lot will be answered in a DLC but I tend to think I'll come away with more questions than answers.

[Asperath]

Also: did anyone listen in on the Patrick Weekes & David Gaider interviews the last couple of days? Apparently Inquisition was meant to be twice as long story-wise and the Solas epilogue was going to be a quest. Some cool stuff!

 

I've been semi here/ not here for a bit recently so NO!

Anyone got a linky for this?

[R2s Muse]

While they haven’t explicitly said there will be a wolf hunt DLC they have said that they will be addressing stuff to do with Solas in DLC. I think it was mentioned in the Kotaku Q&A thing where they mentioned the darkspawn DLC.

I don't know that anyone's assuming it's a thing, we're all just speculating, but it's based on apparent remarks by Weekes and Gaider in an interview that the Solas ending was supposed to be the start of a quest. It's not illogical to think they might still make it part of a DLC if they already put some work into it. And frankly, it's probably the one thing most people really want answered. Me, I can take or leave the Deep Roads (I find them tedious after the first few dozen dark spawn, spiders, and deepstalkers, anyway) unless it has some significant dwarven content or finally answers some questions about what the blight is.

Yes, the devs have hinted several times that we'll see more of Solas's story, including this most recent interview, and frankly, it just doesn't make sense for that resolution to be in the next game with a different protagonist. Then again... they promised us resolution of Hawke's story once upon a time, which was also cut content from the scuttled expansion, and what we got was Hawke as an NPC doing his/her thing without us. The situation with DA2 was vastly different than the reception to DAI, tho. So I have no doubt in my mind that we'll see a resolution to Solas's story, but it's only (very strong) speculation that it will be DLC.

[Sifr]

Yes, the devs have hinted several times that we'll see more of Solas's story, including this most recent interview, and frankly, it just doesn't make sense for that resolution to be in the next game with a different protagonist. Then again... they promised us resolution of Hawke's story once upon a time, which was also cut content from the scuttled expansion, and what we got was Hawke as an NPC doing his/her thing without us. The situation with DA2 was vastly different than the reception to DAI, tho. So I have no doubt in my mind that we'll see a resolution to Solas's story, but it's only (very strong) speculation that it will be DLC.

 

Honestly, one of the problems with DAI is that they had too many storylines going and they never really had time to give them the attention they deserved, personally I'd have held off one or two of them for the expansion, since it would have prevented everything from being wrapped up so neatly as the game did?

 

While the issue with the Breach and Corypheus has been resolved, perhaps the Orlesian Civil War is still on-going and the Mage-Templar War has entered an uneasy cease-fire for the time being, while both sides attempt to recover the losses they suffered at the Conclave and as a result of Corpyheus?

 

Meanwhile, rather than having one of our own become Divine, how about a Grand Cleric in one of the Free March states decides to declare herself the new Divine and attempt to seize control of the faithful away from Orlais? We later learn this Cleric (dubbed the Red Divine) was in league with Corypheus and is trying to now maintain her powerbase in the wake of his defeat? Perhaps if she was from Starkhaven, she's being unwittingly aided by Sebastian, since as a man of the cloth and with a grudge against Kirkwall, he'd be easy to manipulate?

 

If we'd had just perhaps the Grey Warden plot and more involvement with thwarting Corypheus' plans, the game could have felt more involved and we could have given things more time, focus and better pacing, rather than shoe-horning all the conflicts we had going and trying to solve them all before the end-credits roll?

 

DAI was a great game, but Bioware did kinda end up playing a lot of their cards way too early?

[Cozmikitty]

Considering how long Solas may of been asleep he may not even of experience with darkspawn before in person before (I mean "awake") & he doesn't fit the normal description of a darkspawn etc. Sure he's probably seen a lot since. Also makes me wonder if Cory is the one who woke him from his slumber. I wonder if he's awoken numerous times to go to different sites to visit the fade there or if a lot of that happened after he woke up, which means Cory could of been planning this/had the orb for awhile. He may of sensed Cory was powerful but maybe not to the extent to do what he did... also I hope somehow Flemeth will be back **please**
 
All this just makes me think Solas is just an extremely powerful dreamer from a time possibly before the veil which explains his connection to spirits and had far more knowledge & power (including the other elven gods) after the veil. Heck, they may just me spirits who got caught on the wrong side in a physical shell.

I hope a lot will be answered in a DLC but I tend to think I'll come away with more questions than answers.

Good discussion! I was thinking about this a lot today. Partially from dialogue with Solas. I recently started a new play through, and when I tried to ask him about Elven history, he initially slightly approved, yet when I replied to any of the choices given, he was argumentative, superior, and over all, a jerk. Knowing who he is, made me want to hit him. Seriously hit him. Kick him out of my party, for being such a pompous ass. Grrr. I hit him repeatedly

[Hellion Rex]

Considering how long Solas may of been asleep he may not even of experienced a darkspawn before in person before (I mean "awake") & he doesn't fit the normal description of a darkspawn etc. Sure he's probably seen a lot since. Also makes me wonder if Cory is the one who woke him from his slumber. I wonder if he's awoken numerous times to go to different sites to visit the fade there or if a lot of that happened after he woke up, which means Cory could of been planning this/had the orb for awhile. He may of sensed Cory was powerful but maybe not to the extent to do what he did... also I hope somehow Flemeth will be back **please**

 

The way he vehemently rages about the way the Grey Wardens deal with Taint makes me believe that he has a lot of experience with blighted creatures. And on top of that, we have murals in elven temples that depict ancient elves fighting some sort of proto-darkspawn. So again, why would he give his orb to such a creature? I do believe that he knew what Cory and so gave the orb to him cause he'd have the power to open it. Solas simply didn't realize that he could bodyhop.

[Tishina]

Yes, the devs have hinted several times that we'll see more of Solas's story, including this most recent interview, and frankly, it just doesn't make sense for that resolution to be in the next game with a different protagonist. Then again... they promised us resolution of Hawke's story once upon a time, which was also cut content from the scuttled expansion, and what we got was Hawke as an NPC doing his/her thing without us. The situation with DA2 was vastly different than the reception to DAI, tho. So I have no doubt in my mind that we'll see a resolution to Solas's story, but it's only (very strong) speculation that it will be DLC.

I agree. And I can't imagine that two writers who are well aware of how fans will react would have mentioned that about Solas unless plans were in the works to do something with that storyline.

 

The way he vehemently rages about the way the Grey Wardens deal with Taint makes me believe that he has a lot of experience with blighted creatures. And on top of that, we have murals in elven temples that depict ancient elves fighting some sort of proto-darkspawn. So again, why would he give his orb to such a creature? I do believe that he knew what Cory and so gave the orb to him cause he'd have the power to open it. Solas simply didn't realize that he could bodyhop.

But that just makes me think he knows something about darkspawn that we haven't been told yet, and that they aren't just ravening evil beasts spreading a disease that will kill everyone. I always thought it was peculiar that they were giving us an enemy where it was so black and white-good vs. bad. I also played a couple of Dalish Wardens in DAO; unlike born darkspawn, Tamlen still had his mind and thoughts months after being tainted. He only attacked because the archdemon forced him to. It's easy enough to write off the one dwarf you find in the deep roads who'd been tainted for years or Branka's lover since dwarves are supposed to be a bit more resistant to the taint. Though Solas mostly seems concerned with the Wardens destroying (if they've actually succeeded) the souls of the Old Gods. I've found him a bit inconsistent about Wardens, actually. I've had both him and Blackwall in my party most of the time on my Cullenmancer, and I wish I'd paid closer attention to their banter (though I know he's never said anything that suggests he suspects Blackwall is an imposter, so he isn't directly sensitive to the taint.) We don't know how long it took for Cory to start demonstrating outward signs of being a darkspawn after he possessed the warden's body either.

[Hellion Rex]

But that just makes me think he knows something about darkspawn that we haven't been told yet, and that they aren't just ravening evil beasts spreading a disease that will kill everyone. I always thought it was peculiar that they were giving us an enemy where it was so black and white-good vs. bad. I also played a couple of Dalish Wardens in DAO; unlike born darkspawn, Tamlen still had his mind and thoughts months after being tainted. He only attacked because the archdemon forced him to. It's easy enough to write off the one dwarf you find in the deep roads who'd been tainted for years or Branka's lover since dwarves are supposed to be a bit more resistant to the taint. Though Solas mostly seems concerned with the Wardens destroying (if they've actually succeeded) the souls of the Old Gods. I've found him a bit inconsistent about Wardens, actually. I've had both him and Blackwall in my party most of the time on my Cullenmancer, and I wish I'd paid closer attention to their banter (though I know he's never said anything that suggests he suspects Blackwall is an imposter, so he isn't directly sensitive to the taint.) We don't know how long it took for Cory to start demonstrating outward signs of being a darkspawn after he possessed the warden's body either.

But could Corypheus really have fooled Solas, an elven god? Solas may have been weak yes, but why would he give his orb to Cory, unless he knew of what the guy was capable of?

 

I can't speak to Tamlen, cause I have never done a Dalish Warden, though it is peculiar. However, do note that Tamlen was a ghoul, not a darkspawn. All ghouls can retain a semblance of humanity for a time before they are lost.