138845 réponses à ce sujet

[Cerulione]

No, the devs have said that they had no idea he would develop such a following. His DA:O writer said that if she had known, she would have given him some closure. I guess we can be glad she didn't so that they had somewhere to go with his story in the next two games. 

 

What?? If they knew earlier he'll have so much fans they'll cut him out??? WHY? >.<

 

I wonder what happens at the end if you play a templar who takes lyrium. After all the pain Cullen endured to stop, YOU inflict that to yourself. I saw some dialogues where Cullen is sad about your decision. I wonder if you do both nightmares afterwards XD

 

The saddest part is that you both know what's waiting at the end of the road except if you both try to stop taking it...

 

>.<

 

Spoiler

Agreed I think a lot depends on how you played your Warden. Mine was madly in love with Alistair & being young, just wanted to stay with him. If you could marry him as a warden, I might of chose differently... it was my first PT and honestly I just kinda fell into Cousland becoming Queen as I really didn't think she would just decide everything lol I dunno what I was thinking really...

 

 

 

Spoiler

Although I agree with some of what you said, I'm going to have to agree to disagree with a lot of what you said It seems we played our games very differently and that's great because it allows me to see other points of view but it doesn't change my opinion on her. It's what also makes Bioware games great fun to play - I love how characters can create completely differing emotions/views/opinions in people.

I also know you weren't directing anything towards me, but I just like to add, I'd dislike the character & would consider the character power hungry no matter the gender. I like the fact you brought that up because it does happen still too frequently in society imho.

 

And the weird thing is... I love her father, Loghain... and a lot of that I cannot explain, I just do *shrugs*

 

If you wanna chat via PM go for it! I'm no where near articulate, but I open to discussion and differing views

 

 

Anyway, back to Cullen...

 

What do you think he would of done if the Knight Captain hadn't spoken to his parents and/or his parents hadn't agreed to let him join the templars?

Wait til old enough to join himself? I don't know if there's an age limit or requirement to join because in Kirkwall the recuits seemed to be young adults.

 

Oooh if you guys want to discuss it on PM add mee to please.

 

About Cullen & templar recruitment, I guess that it depends? I think that orphans & kids given to Chantry etc2 might start younger, and take their vow earlier. Cullen said that there are kids younger than him. Also for older kids/young adult guess that all is possible? I mean the Inquisitor can be somewhere from 18-50 yo right? And the templar specialization works just well. Guess that if there's any specific difference it's on the mastery of templar skills & probably how the body accept lyrium?

 

TBH personally I headcannon that earlier the templar take their vow (hence lyrium), earlier they got burnt out on their mind & memories. Carroll look pretty young to me & he's already clouded in his mind. Gregoir is still lucid up to what seems to me 60++. I know that each person takes lyrium differently but probably the duration of how long one had been taking it might also contribute.

[Char]

Well since the Anora discussion continued~ but I'll put this under a cut, for courtesy.
 
Anora x Alistair stuff:

Spoiler

I very much like the the relationship between Alistair and Anora in all its extent - the evolution from the obviously mutual contempt in Origins, shade and barbs and slap in the hand and all, to the great dynamic of mutual respect they show in their one scene together in Inquisition - speaking in turns (instead of over each other) and completing each other's argument (instead of undermining each other's authority). Regardless of how one feels about them in terms of shipping, it's clear that in the ten years they've spent ruling together, they've learned to make it work, at the very least. I'm a big fan of them ruling together, and believe they do a much better job together than either of them would do separately. As their slide says back in Origins, they complement what each other lacks, Anora needing the influence of Alistair's big heart over her dry pragmatic approach, and Alistair needing the influence of Anora's logical brain over his often overly emotional approach.
 
Other than that, in shipping terms, I do also very much like them as a couple. I think it would take both of them a long time to overcome the emotional wall they build against each other, for their own valid reasons, but time is all they have - they're married for life, for good or ill. We do have the canon fact that they do eventually open up and learn to respect each other, so I think it's not unreasonable to headcanon that, over time, this learned respect and the comraderie they share could evolve into more romantic feelings. I've said this before in an older post here in the thread: I ship "Alistair/Anora as a couple that starts off as merely political, and even slightly disdainful of each other, but eventually develops a relationship of mutual respect, trust and friendship over time -and who knows, even that different, more low-key kind of love that comes from comfortable familiarity rather than flaming passion."
 
In my world state, in particular, where the Warden is dead, this is particularly easy to headcanon, because as I mentioned, Anora and Alistair already have something very intimate in common - they lost the first person they loved to that person's own reckless stubborness, and that's something they can at least empathize with to cut each other some initial slack.
 
And maybe they'll never feel exactly the same way about each other as they did for their first partners (say, Alistair for my Warden, or Anora for Cailan - and yes, Anora genuinely loved Cailan, we do have canon evidence of that), but you know. People move through relationships, marry a second, third time, find new ways to love again. I don't like the idea of these two characters I like so much forever wallowing in eternal misery, and prefer to think they could make each other happy, in their own way. Maybe not in that puppy-love crush way they had on their highschool sweethearts, but maybe in that "you're the mother/father of my children and I respect you a lot for that, and also for putting up with me when I'm being an idiot or smelling real bad" more adult way.

 
Anora stuff:

Spoiler

As for Anora as a character... I could write pages about her but I don't wanna start sht so I'll just say is: it is not power-hungry to defend what is yours by right. She is the rightful Queen of Ferelden in Cailan's absence, like it or not - she has been ruling the country as Queen for the past five years, she's not just some overly ambitious noble who jumped out from the shadows the day the king dropped dead. And she not only has to watch her own father take her authority away from her as if she has no competence to rule on her own, but also has to put up with Eamon coming out of the left field with this puppet to usurp the throne from her as well, a whelp who's barely wet behind the ears and knows nothing of governing a country. She's not a power-hungry vulture, trying to gain power she never had (that would be Howe's role). She's defending what is already hers by right. 
 
And I'm complete agreement that, if wanting to continue ruling the country she's already been ruling for years makes Anora "power-hungry," then what does that even say about a female Cousland who, despite having zero claim to the throne, deposes the rightful Queen and takes the crown for herself? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ I don't consider either Anora or Cousland power-hungry (at least in general terms -unless you're specifically roleplaying a power-hungry Cousland), but if we're gonna throw that concept around for the one of them that actually has the real claim to the throne, then at least let's be real about how that makes a Queen Cousland look like in the larger picture.
 
I just think we as a fandom still need to work on the idea that it's ok for female characters to have drive and ambition, and be wiling to defend what's theirs by right with tooth and claw, and that doesn't make them power-hungry btches or the like. The same judgement that Anora gets is also laid on Celene for trying to hold onto her throne, but for some reason Gaspard and Alistair never get judged for trying to usurp power they don't rightfully own, even though that's pretty much what they're both doing when you put them in power. Curious, huh.

 
 
 
ANYWAY just so this entire post is not solely made of off-topicness, here's a gratuitous plug to another Cullen fic I wrote, for those not following me on tumblr:

• Blue (Cullen/Templar Inquisitor)

I'm on topic, see... 

On the topic of Anora:

Spoiler

My Cousland had a lot of respect for her; but that meant she had to be eliminated from competition. My Cousland lady was politically ruthless. She had a lot in common with Anora and in other circumstances I think they would have been friends- but there can be only one Queen of Ferelden. At the end of the day, you have to fight for what you want.

On the topic of Cullen, I so badly need new DLC. I've completed about ten playthroughs, and I'm all played out of the game as is. The Witcher is keeping me entertained for now, but I'm running dry there too. So Bioware need to get their arses in gear and give me new content before I quietly combust.

[R2s Muse]

Anyway, back to Cullen...

What do you think he would of done if the Knight Captain hadn't spoken to his parents and/or his parents hadn't agreed to let him join the templars?
Wait til old enough to join himself? I don't know if there's an age limit or requirement to join because in Kirkwall the recuits seemed to be young adults.

Given his interest, I bet you're right that he would've just joined on his own (unless something else tickled his fancy in the meantime; 13 yr olds are not known for static interests ). In Kirkwall, one Templar mentions joining at age 15, while some join far earlier like Ceru mentioned, so I think there is likely a range.

Real question to my mind is when are you too old to join? One of the Templar codex entries, or maybe it was a BW blog post, claims the Order is interested first in folks who are devoted and follow orders, and moral fibre second. I would expect the young and impressionable fit that model better.

[Asperath]

Given his interest, I bet you're right that he would've just joined on his own (unless something else tickled his fancy in the meantime; 13 yr olds are not known for static interests ). In Kirkwall, one Templar mentions joining at age 15, while some join far earlier like Ceru mentioned, so I think there is likely a range.

Real question to my mind is when are you too old to join? One of the Templar codex entries, or maybe it was a BW blog post, claims the Order is interested first in folks who are devoted and follow orders, and moral fibre second. I would expect the young and impressionable fit that model better.

 

I would also think that at a younger age their minds could be influenced and shaped more, not to mention the training required.

I know that an older person could be as fit but if they had never picked up a sword before... when you're younger it's easier to learn new things.

Cullen also mentions the Chantry educating their templers, would that also impact on an older person being recuited?

[R2s Muse]

What?? If they knew earlier he'll have so much fans they'll cut him out??? WHY? >.<
.

I'm not sure I'm following...

Cullen was a two second character they didn't think anyone would notice. He started out as the Templar who had a crush on the Mage warden, and later became the Templar in the cage, because folks like seeing people from their past, Sheryl said. If she had also written him a resolution, it might not have allowed for him to be transferred to Kirkwall, for example. Moreover, given some of Sheryl's comments about him at the time, his later story arc might have been very very different. And not necessarily in a good way.

[MelissaGT]

I wonder what happens at the end if you play a templar who takes lyrium. After all the pain Cullen endured to stop, YOU inflict that to yourself. I saw some dialogues where Cullen is sad about your decision. I wonder if you do both nightmares afterwards XD

 

The game leaves that part wide open to head-canons for now. It would be nice if some of that is explained via DLC because I really would love to know. So much of a Templar IQ's romance with him is hinged on the decision you've made around lyrium for both of you. And then in the end, the game even allows you to tell him that now it's time to start looking for a way out. 

 

On his reaction to your decision to take the templar spec, he can come off as sad, but depending on your dialogue choices, he can also come off as respectful of your decision and saying that he knows why you did it. He can even come off as grateful to you for telling him to start taking lyrium again.

 

On a different subject, someone commented on one of my Youtube vids that there was at one time a romance dialogue at Adamant with Cullen during this scene:

 

Apparently it was lost with an update after release. Can anyone confirm this? I had the game from release and I ran through his romance pretty quickly the first time around and I never saw anything of the sort. 

[Owlfruit Potion]

On a different subject, someone commented on one of my Youtube vids that there was at one time a romance dialogue at Adamant with Cullen during this scene:

 

Apparently it was lost with an update after release. Can anyone confirm this? I had the game from release and I ran through his romance pretty quickly the first time around and I never saw anything of the sort. 

I thought I remembered having some romance content at that scene on my first playthrough but I'd be willing to bet it was more just thinking that the scene was romantic (oh, he's probably so worried for her but can't say anything because they're in front of everyone and also both of their first concern is the mission right now!) than there actually being romance-specific content, and I'd also bet that's what your commenter is thinking of.

 

A quick, on-my-way-out-the-door-to-work readthrough of the dialogue files for that level has nothing that sounds romance-related at all (especially not near any of Cullen's other dialogue lines), and if they'd mistakenly patched it out, I'm pretty sure the text would still be in the talk tables. (EDIT: And I can't imagine they'd patch it out on purpose.)

 

EDIT: Also, I know Lady Insanity uploaded her romance video like two weeks after the game came out; I don't watch other people's videos for the romances unless I'm not going to play them myself, so I don't know if it's in there or not, but if it's not in there, it probably wasn't ever in the game.

[MelissaGT]

I thought I remembered having some romance content at that scene on my first playthrough but I'd be willing to bet it was more just thinking that the scene was romantic (oh, he's probably so worried for her but can't say anything because they're in front of everyone and also both of their first concern is the mission right now!) than there actually being romance-specific content, and I'd also bet that's what your commenter is thinking of. A quick, on-my-way-out-the-door-to-work readthrough of the dialogue files for that level has nothing that sounds romance-related at all (especially not near any of Cullen's other dialogue lines), and if they'd mistakenly patched it out, I'm pretty sure the text would still be in the talk tables. (EDIT: And I can't imagine they'd patch it out on purpose.)

 

EDIT: Also, I know Lady Insanity uploaded her romance video like two weeks after the game came out; I don't watch other people's videos for the romances unless I'm not going to play them myself, so I don't know if it's in there or not, but if it's not in there, it probably wasn't ever in the game.

 

FluffyNinjaLlama posted her vids like a week after release and there's definitely no extra romance dialogue.

 

This person said there's a heart option...me thinks that's wishful thinking...especially now that you checked the talk tables. 

[Ashaantha]

I am 100% sure there's never been a heart option during that Adamant scene. It's something any Cullen romance fan would remember if it had suddenly disappeared, just sayin'

[R2s Muse]

I would also think that at a younger age their minds could be influenced and shaped more, not to mention the training required.
I know that an older person could be as fit but if they had never picked up a sword before... when you're younger it's easier to learn new things.
Cullen also mentions the Chantry educating their templers, would that also impact on an older person being recuited?

Agree. Of course, I keep hearing Yoda's voice in my head. "He is too old. Yes. Too old to begin the training."

[R2s Muse]

FluffyNinjaLlama posted her vids like a week after release and there's definitely no extra romance dialogue.

This person said there's a heart option...me thinks that's wishful thinking...especially now that you checked the talk tables.

hmm. I could maybe see an ambient line or banter that we're not sure is romance-related, but agree with everyone else: an actual heart option we would remember. (And save and replay...)

[Marika Haliwell]

Lol I was curious to see how everyone's reactions were at the beginning when the game was released ... so much squee lmao .. and after all these months is still here Cullen's got the following lol, i'm glad !

[riverbanks]

Actually, River, I PM'd you my true sticking point with Anore ruling alone. It's bit old fashioned but... sometimes we simply dislike characters and Anora's one of those for me.

 

I'll be glad to move it to PM to stop cluttering the thread, but I'll just leave in the public record that I definitely understand the notion of "sometimes you just dislike a character, period" - I feel the same about another certain character in the series; for all of her character and narrative qualities, I still just really dislike her at the end of the day and that's that. So I get that, it happens.

 

Her name is Rhia! 

 

Makes me think of my Rhiannon... 

 

Hahaha her name originally was Rhiannon, remember one time I was like "omg we have the same Inquisitor??" But then I restarted the character because she was developing a completely different personality and I felt the name didn't fit her anymore.

 

Still, I like to consider our Templar girls distant partners in crime - the sweet naive Rhia and the strong confident Rhiannon, both navigating through the challenge that is balancing their own decisions and faith in the Order, and holding onto a Cullen who never blamed them in the first place.

 

Real question to my mind is when are you too old to join? One of the Templar codex entries, or maybe it was a BW blog post, claims the Order is interested first in folks who are devoted and follow orders, and moral fibre second. I would expect the young and impressionable fit that model better.

 

We know at the very least that Carver is allowed to join the Order at 19/20 years old. So I think that for older recruits, or those that weren't raised inside the Chantry orphanages with the specific purpose of becoming Templars, it does depend more on the religious fervor and the ability to put your head down and follow orders, as that DAI codex says, than the age of the recruit.

 

The Wardens don't have an age limit either, as long as you can fight, you're game. I suppose with the Templars it wouldn't be too different, if you can wield and a sword and be compelled enough by a cause, even someone in their late 20s/early 30s could still be considered fit to join.

 

I am 100% sure there's never been a heart option during that Adamant scene. It's something any Cullen romance fan would remember if it had suddenly disappeared, just sayin'

 

Yeah, this was definitely never there. I entered Adamant the day the game released, already romancing Cullen, and there was never any heart option in that conversation. Even went back through my caps to make sure (I screencapped every conversation on my first playthroughs for reference), and the conversation at the gates is the same one we still have now. It could be read as romantic in the sense that, if you're romancing him, it's cute that you're telling each other to take care - but, then again, you both still say those same lines even if you're not in a romance at all.

[MelissaGT]

 

Hahaha her name originally was Rhiannon, remember one time I was like "omg we have the same Inquisitor??" But then I restarted the character because she was developing a completely different personality and I felt the name didn't fit her anymore.

 

Still, I like to consider our Templar girls distant partners in crime - the sweet naive Rhia and the strong confident Rhiannon, both navigating through the challenge that is balancing their own decisions and faith in the Order, and holding onto a Cullen who never blamed them in the first place.

 

 

Yeah, this was definitely never there. I entered Adamant the day the game released, already romancing Cullen, and there was never any heart option in that conversation. Even went back through my caps to make sure (I screencapped every conversation on my first playthroughs for reference), and the conversation at the gates is the same one we still have now. It could be read as romantic in the sense that, if you're romancing him, it's cute that you're telling each other to take care - but, then again, you both still say those same lines even if you're not in a romance at all.

 

I totally miss my Templar playthrough. It was so engaging and heart-wrenchingly awesome...right up there with my Renegade Fem!Shep x Garrus. I still watch the vids I made from time to time for nostalgia. I've thought about re-rolling another Templar now that I'm better with the CC and we have mods, but I don't think it would be the same. 

 

And oh the anon hate I got for being Pro-Templar...and having Cullen take lyrium...the travesty!  

 

I love that the game has a lot of dialogue that isn't directly romance-related but could certainly be construed as such. To me it's a lot more organic than just "heart" or "no heart."

[Vanalia]

What happens to a templar who continues to take lyrium? death? madness?

 

I wouldn't be able to play a templar taking Lyrium, and I wouldn't ask Cullen to continue taking it, I don't like when it's too tragic >__< I mean, he deserves happiness without too many worries, he already suffered so much. I wouldn't want to worry him even more.

 

 

I'm reading some old pages of this thread to check on your reactions at the first pics of Cullen, and the first reactions of people playing the romance. I didn't reach these pages yet, where are they? I checked around the pages 3080 but it takes a long time, I cannot read everything 

[riverbanks]

We know at the very least that Carver is allowed to join the Order at 19/20 years old. So I think that for older recruits, or those that weren't raised inside the Chantry orphanages with the specific purpose of becoming Templars, it does depend more on the religious fervor and the ability to put your head down and follow orders, as that DAI codex says, than the age of the recruit.

 

The Wardens don't have an age limit either, as long as you can fight, you're game. I suppose with the Templars it wouldn't be too different, if you can wield and a sword and be compelled enough by a cause, even someone in their late 20s/early 30s could still be considered fit to join.

 

lol quoting myself but~ to add to this, I just went through Lysette's first conversation again, and I'd forgotten she was just a Templar-recruit, not even an initiate yet as Belinda is. So we have another canon example of an adult joining the Templars past their teens.

 

I wonder if that horrible lyrium branding ritual we see referenced in the Templar quest is done just after the initiate takes their vows, or if the ceremony is just religious and there's some more prep time inbetween to really prepare yourself mentally for it. Belinda says she took her vows only a couple months before the Conclave, but she uses all sorts of Templar abilities that would demand lyrium.

 

(....I'm thinking of Cullen undergoing that ritual again and making myself sad about it...)

[Sifr]

lol quoting myself but~ to add to this, I just went through Lysette's first conversation again, and I'd forgotten she was just a Templar-recruit, not even an initiate yet as Belinda is. So we have another canon example of an adult joining the Templars past their teens.

 

I wonder if that horrible lyrium branding ritual we see referenced in the Templar quest is done just after the initiate takes their vows, or if the ceremony is just religious and there's some more prep time inbetween to really prepare yourself mentally for it. Belinda says she took her vows only a couple months before the Conclave, but she uses all sorts of Templar abilities that would demand lyrium.

 

(....I'm thinking of Cullen undergoing that ritual again and making myself sad about it...)

 

Am trying to remember now, in DA2, does Keran say how long he'd been a recruit with the Templars? I could have sworn he said something about a couple years, but I might be mixing it up with how he's given five-year probation from Cullen if he stays with the order?

 

Thinking about that bunch of recruits always makes me sad in retrospect, knowing that Paxley joined the Red Templars with Samson.

[riverbanks]

Am trying to remember now, in DA2, does Keran say how long he'd been a recruit with the Templars? I could have sworn he said something about a couple years, but I might be mixing it up with how he's given five-year probation from Cullen if he stays with the order?

 

Thinking about that bunch of recruits always makes me sad in retrospect, knowing that Yaxley joined the Red Templars with Samson.

 

They never do say how long Keran's been a Templar, I think, but he and Macha do make it clear that he joined the Order to help support his family, not for a higher calling, so I suppose it's reasonable to guess that he joined somewhat late too? For him it was a job, not a childhood dream like in Cullen's case. (and knowing that Templars are paid in peanuts and don't even make enough to support themselves, imagine just how poor Keran's family must have been...)

 

I headcanon hard that Keran stayed loyal to Cullen's side, and later went to Skyhold to join the rest of the remaining Templars. That kid was too precious, I can't stand to think he would've joined the Red Templars.   

 

Who is Yaxley, though? I don't remember that name from either game... is this something you see through the mage path on Inquisition?

[R2s Muse]

Am trying to remember now, in DA2, does Keran say how long he'd been a recruit with the Templars? I could have sworn he said something about a couple years, but I might be mixing it up with how he's given five-year probation from Cullen if he stays with the order?
 
Thinking about that bunch of recruits always makes me sad in retrospect, knowing that Yaxley joined the Red Templars with Samson.

Keran says he has been training for five years as of Act 1, and then Cullen can give him another five years. The implication was that this had lengthened his time in training, but they never say by how long. Given that one of the other Kirkwall templars says he joined at 15 and Cullen's then supposed age for DA:O, I always figured that Keran had to have been close to taking his vows at that point.
 

lol quoting myself but~ to add to this, I just went through Lysette's first conversation again, and I'd forgotten she was just a Templar-recruit, not even an initiate yet as Belinda is. So we have another canon example of an adult joining the Templars past their teens.
 
I wonder if that horrible lyrium branding ritual we see referenced in the Templar quest is done just after the initiate takes their vows, or if the ceremony is just religious and there's some more prep time inbetween to really prepare yourself mentally for it. Belinda says she took her vows only a couple months before the Conclave, but she uses all sorts of Templar abilities that would demand lyrium.
 
(....I'm thinking of Cullen undergoing that ritual again and making myself sad about it...)

Ah, good catch on her and Carver. I don't remember much about the lyrium branding TBH. 

[Vanalia]

After the intimate scene with Cullen, there is only one romantic scene remaining? the one of the end?

 

I am just before "What pride had wrought", I'm trying to complete the secondary quests because I think some of them disappear after we do "what pride had wrought", no?

[R2s Muse]

After the intimate scene with Cullen, there is only one romantic scene remaining? the one of the end?

 

I am just before "What pride had wrought", I'm trying to complete the secondary quests because I think some of them disappear after we do "what pride had wrought", no?

No, you have two more. There's one after What Pride Had Wrought, and then the end. You can also play almost every side quest afterwards, except the Samson or Calpernia quests, apparently.

[Vanalia]

OK I want more romance scenes but I'm glad there are still two.

I finished the Calpernia quest but it ends a bit abruptly...

I wonder: did one of you ever tried to refuse the danse with Cullen after the ball? I wonder what happens if you do. I would not be able to do that, I was waiting for him to invite me for so long it would break my heart to refuse him.

[Sizzle]

....

I wonder: did one of you ever tried to refuse the danse with Cullen after the ball? I wonder what happens if you do. I would not be able to do that, I was waiting for him to invite me for so long it would break my heart to refuse him.

He does the cutest thing EVAAA like, he goes all, "Aww, yeh ok bby," and hugs you and then your Inquizzie and Cullen just stand there and look out at the sunset idk but its cootie patootie

[riverbanks]

Ah, good catch on her and Carver. I don't remember much about the lyrium branding TBH. 

 

This thing here:

Spoiler

 

 

 

 

I mentioned the first time I posted it, we don't know if this is just one isolated account or if all lyrium initiations are done like that. But given that this codex is found in Cassandra's Templar manual in the Way of The Templar quest, I think it's supposed to signal a somewhat standard initiation ritual.

 

The thought of all the Templar NPCs we know and love (Alistair, Cullen, Barris, Evangeline, Carver etc) undergoing that ritual is... ugh.

[Vanalia]

Aaw I want to see the scene now, but still, it breaks my heart to refuse his dance when I know he must have gathered all his courage to ask you that. I must find the link on YouTube. Someone has it?

Taking lyrium seems to be very painful Alistair never did that though? I think he did not pass that ritual, he was going to do it but joined the Wardens instead? I don't remember him taking lyrium.