138872 réponses à ce sujet

[Tishina]

As far as I know, that particular banter also requires an US warden. There's a second banter, not angry, if the warden is a mage and romanced by Leliana and Cullen isn't romanced in DAI and the warden survived DAO. The world states required mean you honestly have to be kind of trying to hear either of them, it's so specific and clearly written for that group who want to hear it. All of my IQs have different warden world states from DAO which means eventually I'll hear almost everything. I still haven't paired an IQ with a mage origin, and don't know if I'll use a Leliana romance when I do.

 

I actually like the fact that the NPCs, even when romanced, have a certain amount of agency. I don't just want a party of puppets on a string. We only get to influence NPCs so far, and they can choose their own paths, especially when we aren't involved with them. Doesn't mean the romance isn't special or wouldn't have been the great love of their lives, but that doesn't mean there can't be other smaller loves, if you want to look at it that way. They can't pine over a romance that never happened, though...

 

Edit: BTW, I agree that Blackwall's romance with the IQ was lacking some of the sweeter touches of the one with Josephine. I felt it was a great romance up until the point of the first kiss, then it lost a lot after that. No more gallant, elegant flirts, etc. There are a few nice touches if he's in your party - he worries about you if you get injured too far (though since my Reska was an archer, that rarely actually happened.)

[MaethorialBelle]

As far as I know, that particular banter also requires an US warden. There's a second banter, not angry, if the warden is a mage and romanced by Leliana and Cullen isn't romanced in DAI and the warden survived DAO. The world states required mean you honestly have to be kind of trying to hear either of them, it's so specific and clearly written for that group who want to hear it. All of my IQs have different warden world states from DAO which means eventually I'll hear almost everything. I still haven't paired an IQ with a mage origin, and don't know if I'll use a Leliana romance when I do.

 

I actually like the fact that the NPCs, even when romanced, have a certain amount of agency. I don't just want a party of puppets on a string. We only get to influence NPCs so far, and they can choose their own paths, especially when we aren't involved with them. Doesn't mean the romance isn't special or wouldn't have been the great love of their lives, but that doesn't mean there can't be other smaller loves, if you want to look at it that way. They can't pine over a romance that never happened, though...

 

Edit: BTW, I agree that Blackwall's romance with the IQ was lacking some of the sweeter touches of the one with Josephine. I felt it was a great romance up until the point of the first kiss, then it lost a lot after that. No more gallant, elegant flirts, etc. There are a few nice touches if he's in your party - he worries about you if you get injured too far (though since my Reska was an archer, that rarely actually happened.)

Yeah, I like that they have a degree of free will too. I suppose the logic is if you're not romancing them, then why should it bother you if they find someone for themselves? You can't have your cake and eat it too. But just going back to mass effect again, if you romance Garrus he tells you that he's never been interested in another species before you, but then bam! He's hooking up with Tali just like that, you're not quite the speical snowflake you thought you were. I guess what I have a problem with more is when it seems out of character. I could just be bitter though  

 

I believe they've said that Blackwall's romance, after revelations, was a new beginning for their relationship. Not the best way to conclude a romance arc in my opinion, but that explains the lack of meat later on I guess.

[Tishina]

Yeah, I like that they have a degree of free will too. I suppose the logic is if you're not romancing them, then why should it bother you if they find someone for themselves? You can't have your cake and eat it too. But just going back to mass effect again, if you romance Garrus he tells you that he's never been interested in another species before you, but then bam! He's hooking up with Tali just like that, you're not quite the speical snowflake you thought you were. I guess what I have a problem with more is when it seems out of character. I could just be bitter though

 

I believe they've said that Blackwall's romance, after revelations, was a new beginning for their relationship. Not the best way to conclude a romance arc in my opinion, but that explains the lack of meat later on I guess.

I honestly thought the entire relationship tone shifted as soon as you kiss the first time, so yeah.

 

I wasn't aware that Garrus can hook up with Tali; in that case, I'd have to agree that it wasn't well thought out since Garrus doesn't seem like the sort to just throw words out there unless he meant them (I'm a huge Garrus fan, btw.) I have watched a lot of the ME story, but only played about half of ME 1. The PC combat controls are so hard on my hands that I end up in pain after about 10 minutes of playing ME.

 

To be completely honest, I assume those two potential lines with a non-romanced Cullen are a bit of a bone being thrown to the Warden-Cullen shippers since they've said pretty clearly that once someone is an LI, they will never be one in another game, so even if the Warden returns, that isn't happening for them.

[Sifr]

Since they don't ask about Sigrun in the Keep (as in whether she lived through the DAA ending or not,) I'm assuming they've more or less written her out, sigh. Nate's possible appearance in DA2 means they haven't entirely written him out yet. It's really unclear what happened to the Ferelden wardens, but since Alistair was somehow mixed up in what was going on in Orlais, I've been assuming they were all summoned by Clarel. I've been assuming the Warden-Commander went into the west alone (except for Dog of course, and possibly Zevran if he was romanced,) but while I think it's implied by the letters, it wasn't precisely spelled out.

I adore Sigrun and Nate too, btw. I would seriously love Nate as a romance option...

 

I have a little theory I've been mulling around with on why the Ferelden Wardens and Awakening crew were AWOL in Inquisition, presuming that the False Calling was not confined solely to Orlais (which some dialogue implies) but reached across all the south;

 

Spoiler

Perhaps that when the Awakening Wardens were briefly captured and experimented on by the Architect in the Silverite Mines in Awakening, he infused some of his blood into each of them, either out of curiosity to see what would happen or in the hopes of it having some unknown purpose.

 

Since the Architect has since been implied to be one of the original darkspawn, perhaps having his blood in their system meant they were somehow rendered immune to the effects of the False Calling (as Corypheus does not appear to be affected) when it struck the Wardens in Inquisition.

 

Curious why they alone were unaffected, and perhaps fearing what the other Wardens who were being whammied might do if they found out, the Awakening crew chose to skedaddle to either find the Warden-Commander or the Architect (or both) hoping to find answers.

 

As for Sigrun being absent from the Keep, neither is Velanna. Which makes me think that either they were overlooked accidentally, Bioware figured that since most people recruited them it was easier to just say it was canon (like Anders and Justice in DA2), or that their possible "fates" in the epilogue are going to be retconned down the line, much like the Origins slides where Cullen ends up going Jack Torrance on some mage apprentices?

[stop_him]

 

I can't remember what Cullen says in the arbor wilds if you haven't romanced him, but I love that they changed that line if you're together. I adore battle couple's, so his little line there is definitely in my top five moments of their romance.

Oh? I don't recall Cullen saying anything to a romanced IQ. If anyone remembers, please post.

[MaethorialBelle]

I honestly thought the entire relationship tone shifted as soon as you kiss the first time, so yeah.

 

I wasn't aware that Garrus can hook up with Tali; in that case, I'd have to agree that it wasn't well thought out since Garrus doesn't seem like the sort to just throw words out there unless he meant them (I'm a huge Garrus fan, btw.) I have watched a lot of the ME story, but only played about half of ME 1. The PC combat controls are so hard on my hands that I end up in pain after about 10 minutes of playing ME.

 

To be completely honest, I assume those two potential lines with a non-romanced Cullen are a bit of a bone being thrown to the Warden-Cullen shippers since they've said pretty clearly that once someone is an LI, they will never be one in another game, so even if the Warden returns, that isn't happening for them.

Garrus is one of my favourite characters in any game. It really done his romance a world of good, not being able romance him straight away, I kind of feel that way about Cullen as well (If you play non-mage/male mage wardens). There's already a depth to their characters that the writers got to focus on without thinking about how they'd fit as love interests.

 

Have you tried using an xbox controller to play on pc? I play on consoles so I'm not sure if it's any better, but it may help.

 

And I agree about those lines. They're there if you want them and easily ignored if you don't. I wouldn't have even known they existed if I hadn't watched the banter videos.

[MaethorialBelle]

Oh? I don't recall Cullen saying anything to a romanced IQ. If anyone remembers, please post.

Sorry for the double post, but Cullen says something like "Keep going, I'll be fine." He says it mid fight, so he knows she's probably worried for him. If he's not romanced I think he says "press on inquisitor" so yeah, just a slight change but it makes all the difference to me.

[Liadan]

I think the default world state uses a warden Mahariel who sacrificed herself, so you won't have to hear it if you don't use the keep (I assume). I'm not really sure where I stand in regards to our companions having relationships with each other. The Garrus/Tali one struck a nerve when I first saw it, but only because Garrus/Femshep is my ultimate otp Blackwall crushing on Josephine only bothers me because it seems their relationship has more little sweet touches than the one you have with him. I mean, he goes out and picks her flowers in the morning, where the hell was this kind of thing for the inquisitor

 

I can't remember what Cullen says in the arbor wilds if you haven't romanced him, but I love that they changed that line if you're together. I adore battle couple's, so his little line there is definitely in my top five moments of their romance.

 

How can i get the dialogue on their crush? In all my playthroughs neither Blackwall or Josephine shows an interest in each other  .

 

(I confess that i like when companions end up with others when they aren`t romanced by the PC  )

Modifié par Liadan, 25 juillet 2015 - 03:06 .

[MaethorialBelle]

How can i get the dialogue on their crush? In all my playthroughs neither Blackwall or Josephine shows an interest in each other  .

I'm pretty certain it starts via party banter between Blackwall and either Varric, Sera or Cole. I hardly get any party banter when I'm out and about so the romance has only triggered in one playthrough.

[R2s Muse]

And for Cullen in the jungle, I didn't save my game anyway (I just rushed into the jungle to check who was around), so I'll keep my eyes open for Cullen at the entrance of the temple then  I was surprised not to see our commander on the battlefield.

If you follow the river, he's fighting in the middle of it at one point when you get closer to the temple. 

[R2s Muse]

I have a little theory I've been mulling around with on why the Ferelden Wardens and Awakening crew were AWOL in Inquisition, presuming that the False Calling was not confined solely to Orlais (which some dialogue implies) but reached across all the south;

 

Spoiler

Perhaps that when the Awakening Wardens were briefly captured and experimented on by the Architect in the Silverite Mines in Awakening, he infused some of his blood into each of them, either out of curiosity to see what would happen or in the hopes of it having some unknown purpose.

 

Since the Architect has since been implied to be one of the original darkspawn, perhaps having his blood in their system meant they were somehow rendered immune to the effects of the False Calling (as Corypheus does not appear to be affected) when it struck the Wardens in Inquisition.

 

Curious why they alone were unaffected, and perhaps fearing what the other Wardens who were being whammied might do if they found out, the Awakening crew chose to skedaddle to either find the Warden-Commander or the Architect (or both) hoping to find answers.

 

As for Sigrun being absent from the Keep, neither is Velanna. Which makes me think that either they were overlooked accidentally, Bioware figured that since most people recruited them it was easier to just say it was canon (like Anders and Justice in DA2), or that their possible "fates" in the epilogue are going to be retconned down the line, much like the Origins slides where Cullen ends up going Jack Torrance on some mage apprentices?

Oooh, I like this idea!

 

To be completely honest, I assume those two potential lines with a non-romanced Cullen are a bit of a bone being thrown to the Warden-Cullen shippers since they've said pretty clearly that once someone is an LI, they will never be one in another game, so even if the Warden returns, that isn't happening for them.

Almost certainly, which I think is cool for those who really want the mention, esp since you don't have to have it if it doesn't apply to your world state.

 

I hadn't heard this particular version of it tho, and honestly, it's far creepier in my opinion than the other one at the War Table. Whether Cullen was in love with the mage warden or just a crush or infatuation or whatever, the fact that he's hounding Leliana to talk about her, to the point where she gets snippy about it, seems . . . odd. Esp if it's for an US warden, it seems rather callous of him. Another OOC Cullen moment? :/

[R2s Muse]

I'm pretty certain it starts via party banter between Blackwall and either Varric, Sera or Cole. I hardly get any party banter when I'm out and about so the romance has only triggered in one playthrough.

The only thing I ever saw was the nice things he says about her to the IQ when you ask him his opinion of the advisors. 

[MaethorialBelle]

The only thing I ever saw was the nice things he says about her to the IQ when you ask him his opinion of the advisors. 

After it's triggered by party banter you can go back and speak to them both about what's going on between them. There should be flowers on Josie's desk that you can ask her about as well.

[Liadan]

I'm pretty certain it starts via party banter between Blackwall and either Varric, Sera or Cole. I hardly get any party banter when I'm out and about so the romance has only triggered in one playthrough.

I never had any banter problems but that banter never fired up. 

 

The only thing I ever saw was the nice things he says about her to the IQ when you ask him his opinion of the advisors. 

Same

[Tishina]

I have a little theory I've been mulling around with on why the Ferelden Wardens and Awakening crew were AWOL in Inquisition, presuming that the False Calling was not confined solely to Orlais (which some dialogue implies) but reached across all the south;

 

Spoiler

Perhaps that when the Awakening Wardens were briefly captured and experimented on by the Architect in the Silverite Mines in Awakening, he infused some of his blood into each of them, either out of curiosity to see what would happen or in the hopes of it having some unknown purpose.

 

Since the Architect has since been implied to be one of the original darkspawn, perhaps having his blood in their system meant they were somehow rendered immune to the effects of the False Calling (as Corypheus does not appear to be affected) when it struck the Wardens in Inquisition.

 

Curious why they alone were unaffected, and perhaps fearing what the other Wardens who were being whammied might do if they found out, the Awakening crew chose to skedaddle to either find the Warden-Commander or the Architect (or both) hoping to find answers.

 

As for Sigrun being absent from the Keep, neither is Velanna. Which makes me think that either they were overlooked accidentally, Bioware figured that since most people recruited them it was easier to just say it was canon (like Anders and Justice in DA2), or that their possible "fates" in the epilogue are going to be retconned down the line, much like the Origins slides where Cullen ends up going Jack Torrance on some mage apprentices?

Ooo, nice theory!! We'll hope, anyway. I thought you essentially lost Velanna from your party at the end, no matter what because of her sister? Of course, Shale is in the Keep, and there's not even a trace of a peep about her in DAI, in spite of the Cadash connection...

 

Garrus is one of my favourite characters in any game. It really done his romance a world of good, not being able romance him straight away, I kind of feel that way about Cullen as well (If you play non-mage/male mage wardens). There's already a depth to their characters that the writers got to focus on without thinking about how they'd fit as love interests.

 

Have you tried using an xbox controller to play on pc? I play on consoles so I'm not sure if it's any better, but it may help.

 

And I agree about those lines. They're there if you want them and easily ignored if you don't. I wouldn't have even known they existed if I hadn't watched the banter videos.

My daughter's going to help me pick out and learn to use a gaming controller at some point, but things have been too hectic. I'm used to keyboards after 25 years of computer gaming though, lol.

 

Oooh, I like this idea!

 

Almost certainly, which I think is cool for those who really want the mention, esp since you don't have to have it if it doesn't apply to your world state.

 

I hadn't heard this particular version of it tho, and honestly, it's far creepier in my opinion than the other one at the War Table. Whether Cullen was in love with the mage warden or just a crush or infatuation or whatever, the fact that he's hounding Leliana to talk about her, to the point where she gets snippy about it, seems . . . odd. Esp if it's for an US warden, it seems rather callous of him. Another OOC Cullen moment? :/

Yeah, that one doesn't come across very well (I've heard it in other banter collections.) I've wondered if it might also be triggered by an inquisitor who is making very harsh/negative choices that might be pushing Cullen to drink? Or maybe it only happens when the IQ breaks up with him? Otherwise, I find it very OOC and creepy. Even if he was obsessed, I can't see him doing that to a grieving Leliana unless something's going on with the lyrium?

[riverbanks]

How can i get the dialogue on their crush? In all my playthroughs neither Blackwall or Josephine shows an interest in each other  .

 

(I confess that i like when companions end up with others when they aren`t romanced by the PC  )

 

It's very situational. You need to be locked into a relationship with someone else than Josie or Blackwall, then you need to have both Cole and Blackwall in your party and exhaust all of their banters about Blackwall's little sister before Cole will bring up the thoughts of Josie in Blackwall's mind, then you need to complete Blackwall's reveal quest and judgement, and finally you can ask Josephine about the flowers. She'll then explain how they weren't really taking any of that seriously, but playing an Orlesian nobility game of forbidden chivalrous love, where he plays the part of the poor knight charmed by the unattainable lady and she plays the part of the poor rich lady who can never love beneath her station, etc. It's all a bust.

 

I honestly don't care for this whole thing between Josie and Blackwall, not because they have a relationship outside the Inquisitor, but because they don't. It's not for one second a real relationship. They're not in love, they're not even genuinely attracted to each other but on the most superficial level (oh he's hot in a scruffy way/oh she's got great legs). The whole thing is just a performance. I'd rather they actually liked each other, that would make their situation more interesting after the reveal.

 

I like it when companions get together when they aren't romanced. They have their lives and their agency, their world doesn't need to turn around the player. I love Garrus and Tali, Fenris and Isabela, Dorian and Bull... I like seeing my buddies find their own happiness while my character is finding hers. I'd much rather know the unromanced companions found someone else who likes them too, than to think that whoever I don't romance just ends up sad and lonely forever. That's why the Blackwall/Josie side "romance" misses me, because it's... not even real. Unromanced Josie just goes on to marry Otranto, and unromanced BW just goes on to check some other girl's legs. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[Owlfruit Potion]

So no one has an opinion about what she says about Cullen (or what I think is Cullen?) just before the "tea party" banter. 
At 1:57

Speaking for myself, I was deliberately ignoring your comment because it's a hot-button issue that we've had many unpleasant discussions about and I'd returned literally minutes earlier from avoiding another one of those. But since the discussion is happening:

I don't see it as OOC, and TBH it's one of the few lines our problematic fave gets in DA:I that show him as less than perfect (note that I didn't say the only line; I'm not looking to start that argument either), so I'm hesitant to reject it even though it is depressing. The way I see it,

1. We know from WoT2 and some of Cullen's in-game comments that losing yet another of the few people who knew him before the Blight would have been especially hard for him.

2. We know from what he says to the Inquisitor that he's upset enough if she's alive about never having thanked her for saving him / never having apologized for having said unkind things about mages; it must be significantly worse for him if she's dead.

3. In the War Table banter about it, Leliana seems to jump to the conclusion that he's asking for details of their relationship when to me it sounds for all the world like he was going to ask if she ever mentioned him. It's not too far off to think he might have asked Leliana for an anecdote about the Warden or something and she might think he's asking something much weirder.

4. Furthermore, we know from Leliana's behavior throughout the rest of the game that she's (at least initially) not interested in making new friends, discussing her personal life, or sharing stories anymore; Leli getting snippy about Cullen asking doesn't mean he's been hounding her. (I'd argue her response to an Inquisitor who asks for completely impersonal bard tales is just as harsh.)

If I had a deceased friend whom I'd thought very highly of and whom I missed, and to whom I felt I owed my life/sanity, and we'd parted on bad terms because I was in a terrible state, and we'd parted in the middle of a terrible time in my life and for the world at large, and then I became acquainted with someone who had been close to that friend, I can imagine wanting very badly to ask the new friend for a fond memory or "that's so [friend's name]" funny story about them. We don't know that Cullen went with one of the less socially awkward ways to do this (which, in this case, probably would mean both waiting until Leliana brought her up, and not asking twice), and TBH I wouldn't be surprised if his canonically being socially awkward in a cute way also occasionally includes some of the non-cute aspects of that.

I can't imagine doing so through a third party messenger, though, which brings us to: 5. Maybe he was drinking! It's not like he doesn't make bad decisions at a tavern in another scene regardless of your Keep state.

[Liadan]

It's very situational. You need to be locked into a relationship with someone else than Josie or Blackwall, then you need to have both Cole and Blackwall in your party and exhaust all of their banters about Blackwall's little sister before Cole will bring up the thoughts of Josie in Blackwall's mind, then you need to complete Blackwall's reveal quest and judgement, and finally you can ask Josephine about the flowers. She'll then explain how they weren't really taking any of that seriously, but playing an Orlesian nobility game of forbidden chivalrous love, where he plays the part of the poor knight charmed by the unattainable lady and she plays the part of the poor rich lady who can never love beneath her station, etc. It's all a bust.

 

I honestly don't care for this whole thing between Josie and Blackwall, not because they have a relationship outside the Inquisitor, but because they don't. It's not for one second a real relationship. They're not in love, they're not even genuinely attracted to each other but on the most superficial level (oh he's hot in a scruffy way/oh she's got great legs). The whole thing is just a performance. I'd rather they actually liked each other, that would make their situation more interesting after the reveal.

 

I like it when companions get together when they aren't romanced. They have their lives and their agency, their world doesn't need to turn around the player. I love Garrus and Tali, Fenris and Isabela, Dorian and Bull... I like seeing my buddies find their own happiness while my character is finding hers. I'd much rather know the unromanced companions found someone else who likes them too, than to think that whoever I don't romance just ends up sad and lonely forever. That's why the Blackwall/Josie side "romance" misses me, because it's... not even real. Unromanced Josie just goes on to marry Otranto, and unromanced BW just goes on to check some other girl's legs. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

I didn`t know this about the Blackwall/Josephine romance, i thought they would show real feelings for each other even if they wouldn`t end up together. That is kind of a disappointment... Still i would like to trigger it in at least one playthrough, just to see it.

 

 

 

Edit for ToP:

 

Source

[R2s Muse]

I didn`t know this about the Blackwall/Josephine romance, i thought they would show real feelings for each other even if they wouldn`t end up together. That is kind of a disappointment... Still i would like to trigger it in at least one playthrough, just to see it.

Aw, me too. I always thought it was real when I heard folks talk about. 

[riverbanks]

I hadn't heard this particular version of it tho, and honestly, it's far creepier in my opinion than the other one at the War Table. Whether Cullen was in love with the mage warden or just a crush or infatuation or whatever, the fact that he's hounding Leliana to talk about her, to the point where she gets snippy about it, seems . . . odd. Esp if it's for an US warden, it seems rather callous of him. Another OOC Cullen moment? :/

 
You know, I've thought about this for a long time, since the first time these audio clips came up and we had those kerkuffles in the thread about whether they were creepy/obssessive/romantic, and I think now I get the point Brianne was making then - he's curious.

 

Under the very, very specific circumstances you need to meta-engineer to get this banter, I actually don't think it's too out of character for the person Cullen is in that world state. The mage Warden is dead, so Cullen is not only dealing with unresolved feelings about her, but also double the survivor's guilt - and I don't even mean romantic feelings; regardless of how she felt about him or how he still feels or not about her ten years later, she saved his life at the tower and he never got to thank her for it, or apologize for the things he said, or settle any open score between them, and he'll never have the opportuniy to do any of that now.

 

Then, of course, the mage Warden romanced Leliana in the brief time between the last time Cullen saw her and her death at the end of the Blight, and in the weirdest turn of fate, this random person his old crush found in some tavern and fell in love with and in whose arms she died, somehow ended up coming to work closely with him a decade later. It's weird, you know. This woman who knew the mage Warden more intimately than anyone else in the world, who knew her infinitely better than Cullen's carefully distant contact with her could ever have afforded, is standing right there, with this whole history of love and loss in her past that involves someone Cullen once knew and liked, even if only superficially compared to the relationship the Warden ended up building with Leliana over some short time later.

 

And finally, Cullen is not in a relationship with the Inquisitor, so all the time he would otherwise spend thinking about the Inquisitor, being with her, building a strong relationship, learning to leave his past behind (not just romantic, I mean all of it) and live in the present with someone he can build a new life with, etc; is time that Cullen has to nurture old ghosts instead, gnaw on those old guilts, that small paranoid voice that eats you up inside saying you should have said this, should have done that. Even if he's friends with the Inquisitor, it's not the same. Being in love with Inky would consume his every thought (which is why the banter won't trigger if he's being romanced, he's not letting any of that weight on him anymore); but being alone means he has all this time to worry over the same thoughts - she's dead, Leliana knew her so deeply, I barely even knew her, I wonder what she was really like outside the Circle, I wonder what she was like when she could freely love someone, I wonder if she ever forgave me, I wonder if she even cared, and now she's dead so it doesn't even matter, etc. He's curious, and Leliana is the only channel he has to approach these questions. Asking Morrigan anything is not an option, Loghain/Alistair were just passive audience, Dagna only met her once... the only person who could hold the answers he's looking for is Leliana herself, who, of course, is the one person he should leave alone about these things.

 

So yeah, in the end I still think it's creepy. It's creepy as hell, the way he's prodding Leliana with intimate, intrusive questions about her dead girlfriend. But in retrospect, it also totally makes sense? Because Cullen is a mess of unresolved tensions and traumas in this world state, rekindled by this bad karma joke of having to work with Leliana now, of all people, and he doesn't even have the emotionally stabilizing factor of a more adult relationship to help him let go of things that don't matter anymore. It's super obssessive of him and uncomfortable to hear for us, but it does make sense for the Cullen that has to live in that specific emotional wreck of a world state. He's overthinking everything, and curiosity gets the better of him.

[Tishina]

 
You know, I've thought about this for a long time, since the first time these audio clips came up and we had those kerkuffles in the thread about whether they were creepy/obssessive/romantic, and I think now I get the point Brianne was making then - he's curious.

 

Under the very, very specific circumstances you need to meta-engineer to get this banter, I actually don't think it's too out of character for the person Cullen is in that world state. The mage Warden is dead, so Cullen is not only dealing with unresolved feelings about her, but also double the survivor's guilt - and I don't even mean romantic feelings; regardless of how she felt about him or how he still feels or not about her ten years later, she saved his life at the tower and he never got to thank her for it, or apologize for the things he said, or settle any open score between them, and he'll never have the opportuniy to do any of that now.

 

Then, of course, the mage Warden romanced Leliana in the brief time between the last time Cullen saw her and her death at the end of the Blight, and in the weirdest turn of fate, this random person his old crush found in some tavern and fell in love with and in whose arms she died, somehow ended up coming to work closely with him a decade later. It's weird, you know. This woman who knew the mage Warden more intimately than anyone else in the world, who knew her infinitely better than Cullen's carefully distant contact with her could ever have afforded, is standing right there, with this whole history of love and loss in her past that involves someone Cullen once knew and liked, even if only superficially compared to the relationship the Warden ended up building with Leliana over some short time later.

 

And finally, Cullen is not in a relationship with the Inquisitor, so all the time he would otherwise spend thinking about the Inquisitor, being with her, building a strong relationship, learning to leave his past behind (not just romantic, I mean all of it) and live in the present with someone he can build a new life with, etc; is time that Cullen has to nurture old ghosts instead, gnaw on those old guilts, that small paranoid voice that eats you up inside saying you should have said this, should have done that. Even if he's friends with the Inquisitor, it's not the same. Being in love with Inky would consume his every thought (which is why the banter won't trigger if he's being romanced, he's not letting any of that weight on him anymore); but being alone means he has all this time to worry over the same thoughts - she's dead, Leliana knew her so deeply, I barely even knew her, I wonder what she was really like outside the Circle, I wonder what she was like when she could freely love someone, I wonder if she ever forgave me, I wonder if she even cared, and now she's dead so it doesn't even matter, etc. He's curious, and Leliana is the only channel he has to approach these questions. Asking Morrigan anything is not an option, Loghain/Alistair were just passive audience, Dagna only met her once... the only person who could hold the answers he's looking for is Leliana herself, who, of course, is the one person he should leave alone about these things.

 

So yeah, in the end I still think it's creepy. It's creepy as hell, the way he's prodding Leliana with intimate, intrusive questions about her dead girlfriend. But in retrospect, it also totally makes sense? Because Cullen is a mess of unresolved tensions and traumas in this world state, rekindled by this bad karma joke of having to work with Leliana now, of all people, and he doesn't even have the emotionally stabilizing factor of a more adult relationship to help him let go of things that don't matter anymore. It's super obssessive of him and uncomfortable to hear for us, but it does make sense for the Cullen that has to live in that specific emotional wreck of a world state. He's overthinking everything, and curiosity gets the better of him.

Well put. The only thing that actually bothers me in the situation is simply the extreme tactlessness of asking Leliana herself because she's obviously still grieving (and he seems to genuinely like her from the conversations.) It seems ooc for someone who is so reserved most of the time to actually ask the one person who will obviously be hurt most (and far more than he can be on this subject) especially if the Warden ever told Leliana about their infatuation and Leliana was actually present during Broken Circle and heard what Cullen said. If she brought it up first, sure. But I guess I tend to think of him as having a lot of empathy and maybe I'm reading that into his character on my own.

 

However, as someone else said, although this has remained civil so far, it might be best to drop the topic since it has been known to make people cranky about differing opinions.

[meanieweenie]

I didn`t know this about the Blackwall/Josephine romance, i thought they would show real feelings for each other even if they wouldn`t end up together. That is kind of a disappointment... Still i would like to trigger it in at least one playthrough, just to see it.

I thought I had a playthrough where I recall running around getting flowers to Josie from Blackwall. I thought they really had a thing for one another but it never played out for various reasons. I hope I didn't imagine this or read it in a fic. 

[Lynas]

you need Blackwall + Varric/Sera or Cole to trigger the banter for his relationship with Josie. Oh and Bull and dorian too end up together (if they are not romanced obviously)^^ 

[riverbanks]

But I guess I tend to think of him as having a lot of empathy and maybe I'm reading that into his character on my own.

 

I tend to project an excessive lot of empathy and compassion into Cullen too, but he's actually capable of being pretty callous and insensitive sometimes, intentionally or not. It's my whole issue with the way he's written in Before The Dawn - he makes conscious efforts to go against any attempt of yours to sympathize with or at least understand the circumstances that led Samson to ruin, and deliberately denies the Red Templars any humanity, when even your least suspecting companions like Vivienne and Solas have banter that address the fact that there are still human beings under the lyrium monsters; it's so far removed from his usual characterization as otherwise compassionate and humane towards even people who may not deserve it that it just doesn't sound like Cullen at all. And then there's a few war table responses of his (that are actually pretty in character) where he's not being intentionally mean or anything, but he still makes me go ".... you know, Cullen, not every problem can be solved with a punch in the face..."

 

So yeah, I get the feeling of sometimes reading him a kinder light than reality because he seems most of the time like a person who would be nothing but compassionate and considerate towards others given the sum of his life experiences, but if we take him to task on it he can have some pretty questionable moments too, and be not quite as graceful as we tend to project.

[R2s Muse]

Well put. The only thing that actually bothers me in the situation is simply the extreme tactlessness of asking Leliana herself because she's obviously still grieving (and he seems to genuinely like her from the conversations.) It seems ooc for someone who is so reserved most of the time to actually ask the one person who will obviously be hurt most (and far more than he can be on this subject) especially if the Warden ever told Leliana about their infatuation and Leliana was actually present during Broken Circle and heard what Cullen said. If she brought it up first, sure. But I guess I tend to think of him as having a lot of empathy and maybe I'm reading that into his character on my own.

However, as someone else said, although this has remained civil so far, it might be best to drop the topic since it has been known to make people cranky about differing opinions.

and done through a messenger, not even in person. Like I said, independent of what he may or may not feel or think about the Mage warden, the structure and format of the interaction is odd.

But also agree. Folks get cranky about 10-year-old feelings for the warden.