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[Sifr]

You know what bugs me. The fact that Cullen knew Hawke quite well and there is no interaction or mention of that in DA:I when Hawke appears. It also really bugs me that Leliana, Allistair, and Morrigan (depending on your party) were involved in rescuing Cullen from Uldred and again - no reference to that in the game.

 

Yeah, I really wished that they'd given Hawke and Loghain/Stroud/Alistair more interaction with various characters in Skyhold, especially ones they might have known from either previous games or the novels. It was a shame that we didn't have an ME3 approach where the companions could be found hanging out at different places over the course of the game, something I really liked about that game.

 

Hawke should have had at least one scene with Cassandra given how long she was looking for them, as well as something to say to Cullen and Leliana, since they both of them were already familiar with them and have met on several occassions?

 

Incidentally, Asunder mentions that in novel canon, Shale was present during the events of "Broken Circle"... which always amused me because I always left her behind, figuring that it'd be a huge suspension of disbelief to believe she managed to fit into that tiny wooden rowing boat. I guess in the novel's verse, she must have been forced to walk along the bottom of the lake or something?

 

[Vanalia]

I've just seen the prayer scene. AAAAW that's SOOO cute *____* god he is so adorable, how can he manage that?

*replays the scene over and over*

[Tishina]

Yeah, I really wished that they'd given Hawke and Loghain/Stroud/Alistair more interaction with various characters in Skyhold, especially ones they might have known from either previous games or the novels. It was a shame that we didn't have an ME3 approach where the companions could be found hanging out at different places over the course of the game, something I really liked about that game.

 

Hawke should have had at least one scene with Cassandra given how long she was looking for them, as well as something to say to Cullen and Leliana, since they both of them were already familiar with them and have met on several occassions?

 

Incidentally, Asunder mentions that in novel canon, Shale was present during the events of "Broken Circle"... which always amused me because I always left her behind, figuring that it'd be a huge suspension of disbelief to believe she managed to fit into that tiny wooden rowing boat. I guess in the novel's verse, she must have been forced to walk along the bottom of the lake or something?

 

It's always been a bit fuzzy to me whether you have the entire crew along and only control the ones in your official party or you really do (for unknown reasons) never have more than 3 people with you in combat at a time. I mean, yes, there are cases where it is specified, like the Battle of Denerim (which I assume is partly because leaving Alistair at the gate is necessary for a warden to make the US him or herself) but most of the time, they talk as if they were along with you. I always did Broken Circle first if I wasn't a mage myself in order to get Wynne into the party to heal (though in a few later PTs, I started giving Morrigan a couple of healing spells so she was my only mage in the party.)

[Sifr]

It's always been a bit fuzzy to me whether you have the entire crew along and only control the ones in your official party or you really do (for unknown reasons) never have more than 3 people with you in combat at a time. I mean, yes, there are cases where it is specified, like the Battle of Denerim (which I assume is partly because leaving Alistair at the gate is necessary for a warden to make the US him or herself) but most of the time, they talk as if they were along with you. I always did Broken Circle first if I wasn't a mage myself in order to get Wynne into the party to heal (though in a few later PTs, I started giving Morrigan a couple of healing spells so she was my only mage in the party.)

 

Yeah, it'd be weird if the entire party had for some reason not been present during such-and-so events.

 

Something I noticed the other day in the Keep was that you can't save the Anvil of the Void and keep Shale, because the Keep assumes she was present for that quest and you were forced to kill her... even though it's entirely possible to keep the Anvil by leaving her at camp and doing a persuasion check when she confronts you over it. I might be wrong, but I think the same is true of defiling the Urn when it comes to Leliana and Wynne?

[Rascoth]

Yeah, it'd be weird if the entire party had for some reason not been present during such-and-so events.

 

Something I noticed the other day in the Keep was that you can't save the Anvil of the Void and keep Shale, because the Keep assumes she was present for that quest and you were forced to kill her... even though it's entirely possible to keep the Anvil by leaving her at camp and doing a persuasion check when she confronts you over it. I might be wrong, but I think the same is true of defiling the Urn when it comes to Leliana and Wynne?

Really? I'm currenly playing world state where I let Branda keep the Anvil and have Shale recruited. And I just checked. You can defile the Urn while Leliana's and Wynne's tiles are not affected.

 

Oh, hi! Time for confession: I'm Rascoth and I've been lurking here for quite a while. 

 

While I'm here I shall contribute to this thread.

 

Spoiler

 

[Sifr]

Really? I'm currenly playing world state where I let Branda keep the Anvil and have Shale recruited. And I just checked. You can defile the Urn while Leliana's and Wynne's tiles are not affected.

 

Huh, maybe it was just my Keep screwing around with me then when I tried to set up a new worldstate... or I'm just really bad at setting up the tiles?

 

[Vanalia]

I never got Shale because the offer was over and couldn't download the DLC. Now it's possible for free? Or is it a paying DLC?

[Rascoth]

Huh, maybe it was just my Keep screwing around with me then when I tried to set up a new worldstate... or I'm just really bad at setting up the tiles?

 

Sometimes Keep really tries to force some stupid decisions on you, but most of the time I can set up almost every world state I want. There are things you can't do, but those are things that would be really illogical (like Warden and Alistair/Loghain surviving without DR).

 

I never got Shale because the offer was over and couldn't download the DLC. Now it's possible for free? Or is it a paying DLC?

You can get The Stone Prisoner for free from BioWare Social Network. You just need to log into your account and redeem free DLC (your account -> games -> DAO -> official DLC, The Stone Prisoner should be available to 'buy' for 0 BW Points).

[riverbanks]

Something I noticed the other day in the Keep was that you can't save the Anvil of the Void and keep Shale, because the Keep assumes she was present for that quest and you were forced to kill her... even though it's entirely possible to keep the Anvil by leaving her at camp and doing a persuasion check when she confronts you over it. I might be wrong, but I think the same is true of defiling the Urn when it comes to Leliana and Wynne?

 

It's definitely possible, I have that in my canon world state. Some tiles are reactive to each other, though, and will change on their own when you enter a conflicting choice. It's always good to lock the important choices as you make them so so they don't flip back and give you unpleasant surprises a million hours into the next game; I've wasted two completionist Inquisition playthroughs now trying to get my canon world state to reflect correctly, because of the Keep flipping unlocked tiles on its own.

 

As for Wynne and Leliana, it's possible to talk both of them out of fighting in the game if they're not with you at the Temple and your Coercion is high enough, so it's possible to set that world state at the Keep too.

 

What's not possible at the Keep is to verbally agree with Cullen's request to kill all the mages and not have Wynne killed at at the tower, which makes me super salty because that's totally possible in-game. I know, because I did it - there's a single place at the tower where you can change your party (by Niall's body when you return from the Fade) and I removed Wynne from my party there; thus she wasn't present when we found Cullen, and I never fought her, just recruited her back down in the hall at the end of the quest. I guess she was supposed to always be present during that quest, but if other exploity game mechanics are recognized at the Keep, this one should too. It bug me that one of the few Cullen tiles we have, I can't set correctly. As it is, I have to headcanon that Leliana embelished my Warden's tale by removing that part of her conversation with Cullen from the story.

[Jeniva]

Cullen is my fave romance and it's such a struggle to avoid romancing him when I'm on other play-throughs. Romanced him twice though. 

[riverbanks]

It's always been a bit fuzzy to me whether you have the entire crew along and only control the ones in your official party or you really do (for unknown reasons) never have more than 3 people with you in combat at a time. I mean, yes, there are cases where it is specified, like the Battle of Denerim (which I assume is partly because leaving Alistair at the gate is necessary for a warden to make the US him or herself) but most of the time, they talk as if they were along with you.

 

I understand it as everyone being there with you all the time, because it makes no sense to only take three people with you into life-threatening situations when you have more able hands right there at your disposal. Gonna enter a Circle full of demons/a tunnel in the Deep Roads full of darkspawn, should I take three buddies to make conversation or seven capable fighters and a mabari to have my back, you know?

 

Plus, the companions often reference events in banter or conversation as if they'd been there, even if you didn't take them (like Anders complaining about the last time I took him into the Deep Roads when I didn't take him at all in that playthrough). Plus, we have all these references to certain party compositions in the ancillary material (like Leliana or Shale being with you at the tower, even if they weren't in your game). Easiest way to reconcile that is to just assume everyone is always with you, and you can only control four at a time because party balance.

 

Plus!! One thing I've found by using the console to bring the whole party with me all the time is that, both in DAO and DA2, there was banter written for larger groups, with four-five different people talking among themselves in the same conversation. One of my favorites is a five-way between Sebastian, Bethany, Varric, Hawke and Isabela that was deliberately written for all five but has no way to trigger fully unless you're consoling more people into your party. So the writers knew that we had the ability to magic up more people into the party and acknowleged that in banter. That's another way of justifying that everyone was there - even the writers think that taking only three people when you should have all the gang around is just a gameplay limitation.

[Vanalia]

It does the same in DAI, like Iron Bull saying that we slayed à Dragon together while he was not even in my team when I did.

[Tishina]

I never got Shale because the offer was over and couldn't download the DLC. Now it's possible for free? Or is it a paying DLC?

It's absolutely worth a playthrough with Shale in your party. She may have been my favorite companion by the end of the first playthrough I kept her in my party, but I enjoy her rather biting sense of humor...

[Rascoth]

It does the same in DAI, like Iron Bull saying that we slayed à Dragon together while he was not even in my team when I did.

There are rare occasions where game recognises your party members. Cass being/not being in your party during HLtA is one examples. But they are really rare. Most of the time game assumes everyone just follows you all the time.

Solas... Solas, you weren't with me in Winter Palace... Why are you talking like you were there...

 

It's absolutely worth a playthrough with Shale in your party. She may have been my favorite companion by the end of the first playthrough I kept her in my party, but I enjoy her rather biting sense of humor...

I might have fallen in love with her the moment you leave Honnleath with her. 

[Vanalia]

Shale is a girl? A golem girl?... I should play to DAO again but first I have to restart DA2 and finish it this time... It was so hard to get approval from Fenris as a mage it's hard to romance agressive men... I should try Anders this time maybe, was his romance OK? I don't really like him but well. Can't match Cullen anyway.

[Rascoth]

Shale is a girl? A golem girl?... I should play to DAO again but first I have to restart DA2 and finish it this time... It was so hard to get approval from Fenris as a mage it's hard to romance agressive men... I should try Anders this time maybe, was his romance OK? I don't really like him but well. Can't match Cullen anyway.

Yes, Shale is a girl.

Spoiler

She was actually dwarf from house Cadash who volunteered to become a golem.

 

I never had problems with Fenris' approval and I play mages (mostly pro-mage ones) all the time. You just need to be really careful on which quests you take him and when you leave him behind.

That depends what's 'OK'. I like Awakening Anders and I went for his romance right away when I got DA2. It's nothing special, but they could go into far, far worse direction.

[Tishina]

Shale is a girl? A golem girl?... I should play to DAO again but first I have to restart DA2 and finish it this time... It was so hard to get approval from Fenris as a mage it's hard to romance agressive men... I should try Anders this time maybe, was his romance OK? I don't really like him but well. Can't match Cullen anyway.

Yes, she is (something that only comes out after A Paragon of her Kind.) Except gender is irrelevant for a golem. The fact she started as a Cadash is one of the reasons so many of the dwarf lovers were disappointed in the dead silence about her in DAI.

 

I might have fallen in love with her the moment you leave Honnleath with her. 

Did you actually walk all the way out and get the chicken moment? I admit I fell out of my chair laughing. I would dearly have loved to have her walk in the gates of Skyhold and overhear a few conversations between her and the advisors and companions. Her and Leli talking shoes, of course. I think she would instantly be Cass's best friend. But I'm trying to imagine Cullen's reaction and failing epically...

[Vanalia]

Morrigan doesn't seem to like Cullen very much, I think templars usually don't like her and she dislikes them as well (like for Alistair) but thanks to that there was that funny conversation with Cullen about summoning an army of gryffons

[Rascoth]

Did you actually walk all the way out and get the chicken moment? I admit I fell out of my chair laughing. I would dearly have loved to have her walk in the gates of Skyhold and overhear a few conversations between her and the advisors and companions. Her and Leli talking shoes, of course. I think she would instantly be Cass's best friend. But I'm trying to imagine Cullen's reaction and failing epically...

Yes! Chicken moment! And that 'what did I do?' reaction of hers!

I would love to see her at Skyhold. I also have hard time imagining Cullen's reaction. It could vary depending on world state.

Hmnmn... I haven't read 'Asunder' so I'm not sure... Did Shale meet with Cole?

 

Morrigan doesn't seem to like Cullen very much, I think templars usually don't like her and she dislikes them as well (like for Alistair) but thanks to that there was that funny conversation with Cullen about summoning an army of gryffons 

Well, Morrigan doesn't seem to like most of the people. But yeah, Templars definitely would be high on her dislike list.

[riverbanks]

Shale is a girl? A golem girl?... I should play to DAO again but first I have to restart DA2 and finish it this time... It was so hard to get approval from Fenris as a mage it's hard to romance agressive men... I should try Anders this time maybe, was his romance OK? I don't really like him but well. Can't match Cullen anyway.

 

Anders romance is... complicated. Unless you're playing a character that's a lot like him (and agrees with everything he says and does), Anders can become as agressive as Fenris in the long run, and even worse. Then, there's that ending, too. It works better as a romance if you're looking for angst more than sweetness. For a sweeter, almost angst-free romance, you can try Sebastian (either path) or Merrill (friendship path).

 

Keep in mind that rivalmances are a thing in DA2, too. If your mage has trouble keeping Fenris' approval high, try the other approach - dive head deep into his rivalry path, and romance him from that angle. I quite enjoy rivalmancing Fenris, it's just as good as his friendship path and it allows for both of you to stand by your different beliefs while still respecting each other.

[Tishina]

Yes! Chicken moment! And that 'what did I do?' reaction of hers!

I would love to see her at Skyhold. I also have hard time imagining Cullen's reaction. It could vary depending on world state.

Hmnmn... I haven't read 'Asunder' so I'm not sure... Did Shale meet with Cole?

 

Oh, I know, she just shrugs! Maybe it's just as well she doesn't run into Cullen. Tact isn't her strong suit, and I have no doubts that she'd remember him and say as much, probably less than politely.

 

I didn't read Asunder (just a summary,) but I guess it's possible she met Cole. It would be fascinating to hear that conversation, though.

[Vanalia]

Sebastian was in a DLC, right? because I don't remember him in the main game.

 

I don't romance girls so I won't romance Merrill... I can try Sebastian if I can download the add-on where he is, then. But the character is quite unpopular, isn't he?

 

But yes I like sweet romances. Rivalmance with Fenris can be interesting but chaotic. More passion than love.

[riverbanks]

Sebastian was in a DLC, right? because I don't remember him in the main game.

 

I don't romance girls so I won't romance Merrill... I can try Sebastian if I can download the add-on where he is, then. But the character is quite unpopular, isn't he?

 

But yes I like sweet romances. Rivalmance with Fenris can be interesting but chaotic. More passion than love.

 

Ah yes, Sebastian is from Exiled Prince. I got it on release day and never played without him in the story, so I keep forgetting that he's DLC and just assuming everyone automatically has him too. He's a controversial character due to his religious motif, but speaking for myself, he's my favorite companion in the game, so... sure he's got his haters, but he also has loyal fans.

 

Unfortunately there's no purely sweet romance in DA2 as in Inquisition or Origins (to a certain extent - Alistair's supposed to be a "sweet" romance, but it can all derail pretty horribly at the end depending on your choices). All the love interests in DA2 are very troubled people and Hawke herself is not at her healthiest during the Kirkwall years, so it doesn't make for very peaceful relationships, at least not until the game is actually over. I think it's an interesting narrative choice, at least, that Hawke wouldn't know peace while she was in Kirkwall, but by the time you see Hawke in Inquisition, she and her love interest (any of them) seem to be in a much calmer, more stable place.

[Tarlonniel]

I think it's an interesting narrative choice, at least, that Hawke wouldn't know peace while she was in Kirkwall, but by the time you see Hawke in Inquisition, she and her love interest (any of them) seem to be in a much calmer, more stable place.

 

It was nice of them to sort of throw Hawke a bone like that. Right before they throw her back into full-scale OMG DRAMA TRAGEDY territory

[riverbanks]

It was nice of them to sort of throw Hawke a bone like that. Right before they throw her back into full-scale OMG DRAMA TRAGEDY territory

 

Yeah, I was very excited for a hot minute that my Hawke was finally getting some down, quiet time with the husband there, you know, drinking some tea, picking some curtains, ruling their city-states, talking about kids, generally being happy for a change... But oh wait, no, we have to go fight fake archdemons and posessed Wardens and traipse about in the Fade fighting demons and horrors until we come to yet another tragic horrible Sophie's Choice moment that leaves everyone traumatized and full of regret. Now that sounds more like an ordinary day in Hawke's life.