So now the DLC with Sebastian is free to download, like for Shale?
I have DAO on PS3, DA2 on PC, and DAI on PS4... 
Even the romance with Sebastian is not sweet? 
yes mine with Alistair was nice, I had the Lady Cousland who became queen. When I think about it, when there is NOT the ending with Alistair and the Warden both alive, it mean we don't see Kieran in DAI at all?
I would say the romance with Sebastian is on the sweet side, but it can also be - um - awkward. The flirts... dear Maker, the flirts. And it definitely felt incomplete to me compared to the other romances. But all that said, he's still my canon LI. 
So now the DLC with Sebastian is free to download, like for Shale?
I have DAO on PS3, DA2 on PC, and DAI on PS4...
Even the romance with Sebastian is not sweet?
Kieran only exists if 1) your warden accepted the DR or 2) your warden was romancing Morrigan but turned down the DR in which case (because she was pregnant before the Battle of Denerim in that case) he's simply a boy, no old god essence.
I would say the romance with Sebastian is on the sweet side, but it can also be - um - awkward. The flirts... dear Maker, the flirts. And it definitely felt incomplete to me compared to the other romances. But all that said, he's still my canon LI.
Well, it also has the potential for tragedy at the ending, depending on your choices too. But I have to say his is the sweetest of the male romances, it seems.
I would say the romance with Sebastian is on the sweet side, but it can also be - um - awkward. The flirts... dear Maker, the flirts. And it definitely felt incomplete to me compared to the other romances. But all that said, he's still my canon LI.
I will find it hard to appreciate a new romance after Cullen's, I think (except Alistair's but I already know this one by heart 
)
- Tishina: oh, so it means some scenes of the quest after the Temple of Mythal must be very different without him.
I will find it hard to appreciate a new romance after Cullen's, I think (except Alistair's but I already know this one by heart
- Tishina: oh, so it means some scenes of the quest after the Temple of Mythal must be very different without him.
Yes, though I don't know all the details, I haven't gotten that far with my US PT
Yeah, Flemeth turns up in a different way if Kieran's not around. She still makes a dramatic entrance, though, in her own inimitable style.
So now the DLC with Sebastian is free to download, like for Shale?
Even the romance with Sebastian is not sweet?
Sebastian's DLC is still paid, unfortunately. I wish it was free so he could be more normalized/accepted in the fandom and be featured in more artworks, fanfiction, etc. It's a good thing BioWare decided against DLC companions for Inquisition, it's never fun to see your favorite character largely excluded from fandom because a lot of people just don't have that DLC. At least this way all the companions are there from the start, and everyone has the same access to them.
eta, because I forgot the rest of the post: anyway, Sebastian's romance is generally very sweet, although it can end on a bad note depending on one certain choice you have to make at the end, as Tishina said. But I agree with Tarlonniel that the romance feels a bit incomplete, because there aren't as many scenes as the others, and many important scenes we should have seen end up happening offscreen. Hawke can actually marry Sebastian in the last part of the game, and we never see that happening, in example. So it feels like a lot of missed opportunities. Still, he's my favorite and his romance is my Hawke's canon relationship, even if we have to headcanon so much of it that's never shown. 
Sebastian's DLC is still paid, unfortunately. I wish it was free so he could be more normalized/accepted in the fandom and be featured in more artworks, fanfiction, etc. It's a good thing BioWare decided against DLC companions for Inquisition, it's never fun to see your favorite character largely excluded from fandom because a lot of people just don't have that DLC. At least this way all the companions are there from the start, and everyone has the same access to them.
It's possible to have a few different endings to Origins if the Dark Ritual is not performed:
- Alistair/Loghain don't do the ritual, the Warden takes the last blow and dies; Alistair/Loghain survive. This is my canon, with Alistair becoming king, and Loghain being recruited and surviving Origins to die later in Inquisition. If you keep Alistair, though, this is only possible if you're either not romancing him, or don't take him into the last fight: a romanced Alistair will always take the last blow himself and die to protect you.
- Alistair/Loghain don't do the ritual, but take the last blow and die; the Warden survives. You can make both the Warden and Alistair survive without the ritual by recruiting Loghain and making him making kill the archdemon (semi-good ending), or you can make both Alistair and Loghain die by letting Anora kill Alistair and letting Loghain die for you (bad endings for everyone - except the Warden, who survives after all
In either case, with a female Warden this means that Kieran does not exist, so he never shows up in Inquisition. This is the scene you see in your game, in that case:
Spoiler
I think you get that same scene when Kieran exists but isn't an OGB (probably an incredibly rare WS, but some people did that.) WIthout the OG essence, Flemeth wouldn't be able to summon him, I assume.
When I think about it, when there is NOT the ending with Alistair and the Warden both alive, it mean we don't see Kieran in DAI at all?
Putting this in separate post and under a cut, because it's going so OT.
eta: thread's all out of order now, oops. 
It's possible to have a few different endings to Origins if the Dark Ritual is not performed:
I think you get that same scene when Kieran exists but isn't an OGB (probably an incredibly rare WS, but some people did that.) WIthout the OG essence, Flemeth wouldn't be able to summon him, I assume.
Really? I thought they'd get the same scene with the kid, only Flemeth wouldn't be taking the blue thingy from him. Makes sense, though, a lot of that scene when he's involved is about Flemeth testing whether Morrigan cares for the kid himself or just for him as a vessel for the soul. But I didn't know that, good to know for reference.
This. Ahem.You know what bugs me. The fact that Cullen knew Hawke quite well and there is no interaction or mention of that in DA:I when Hawke appears. It also really bugs me that Leliana, Allistair, and Morrigan (depending on your party) were involved in rescuing Cullen from Uldred and again - no reference to that in the game.
Thank you!! And, yeah, with insta-travel, it's deceptive!Yeah, I think the massive map icons on the in-game map threw off my sense of scale there for a second.
And Happy Birthday!
We accept your offerings! And welcome!Really? I'm currenly playing world state where I let Branda keep the Anvil and have Shale recruited. And I just checked. You can defile the Urn while Leliana's and Wynne's tiles are not affected.
Oh, hi! Time for confession: I'm Rascoth and I've been lurking here for quite a while.
While I'm here I shall contribute to this thread.
Sebastian's DLC is still paid, unfortunately. I wish it was free so he could be more normalized/accepted in the fandom and be featured in more artworks, fanfiction, etc. It's a good thing BioWare decided against DLC companions for Inquisition, it's never fun to see your favorite character largely excluded from fandom because a lot of people just don't have that DLC. At least this way all the companions are there from the start, and everyone has the same access to them.
TBH, I don't think Seb's popularity has anything to do with whether or not he's free. He pushes people's buttons, like Cullen used to, in a negative way. Add to that the fact that he's DLC in the first place, very underwritten and doesn't even count as a real romance (no achievement, no comforting you scene, no mentions from Varric during or at the end), I think he's batting from a severe disadvantage. Which is a shame. 
What they need now is to write him into the next game, resolve all his controversial issues off-screen and give him a stable, happy-ending romance in game. I hear that works for changing minds.
TBH, I don't think Seb's popularity has anything to do with whether or not he's free. He pushes people's buttons, like Cullen used to, in a negative way. Add to that the fact that he's DLC in the first place, very underwritten and doesn't even count as a real romance (no achievement, no comforting you scene, no mentions from Varric during or at the end), I think he's batting from a severe disadvantage. Which is a shame.
What they need now is to write him into the next game, resolve all his controversial issues off-screen and give him a stable, happy-ending romance in game. I hear that works for changing minds.
Oh I definitely agree re. his popularity, even if he was a vanilla character and had the same amount of development as the other companions he'd still likely be hated by the same, uhm, "type" of people. But at least he'd be normalized as a companion in fandom, not excluded from crew fanart or graphics, etc (or called "downloadable heterosexual" as is the latest fad on tumblr 
). Like, people hate Sera and Vivienne a lot, but they don't exclude them from the squad, you know?
Anyway, I certainly do agree with your solution, serah! Let's bring him back into DA5 in the role of... counselor, not to say advisor per se, and give him a character arc that's resolved onscreen rather than in codex entries... and a very sweet romance and very fluffy pauldrons... yes. I hear that works miracles for certain ~controversial characters!
(Can you believe that the whole subplot of Sebastian spending three whole years in Starkhaven rallying the nobility to take his side and getting the door shut on his face over and over only to have to come crawling back to Elthina only to have her manipulate him by dangling his position in the Chantry in front of his nose like carrot to a horse developed entirely in one paragraph of a codex entry that nobody read? Because that's what happened!! No wonder people don't understand his character, some of his most formative moments happen in like a single sentence in a throwaway codex. Terribly, tragically underwritten. 
)
Oh I definitely agree re. his popularity, even if he was a vanilla character and had the same amount of development as the other companions he'd still likely be hated by the same, uhm, "type" of people. But at least he'd be normalized as a companion in fandom, not excluded from crew fanart or graphics, etc (or called "downloadable heterosexual" as is the latest fad on tumblr
Anyway, I certainly do agree with your solution, serah! Let's bring him back into DA5 in the role of... counselor, not to say advisor per se, and give him a character arc that's resolved onscreen rather than in codex entries... and a very sweet romance and very fluffy pauldrons... yes. I hear that works miracles for certain ~controversial characters!
(Can you believe that the whole subplot of Sebastian spending three whole years in Starkhaven rallying the nobility to take his side and getting the door shut on his face over and over only to have to come crawling back to Elthina only to have her manipulate him by dangling his position in the Chantry in front of his nose like carrot to a horse developed entirely in one paragraph of a codex entry that nobody read? Because that's what happened!! No wonder people don't understand his character, some of his most formative moments happen in like a single sentence in a throwaway codex. Terribly, tragically underwritten.
Hmm, that might explain why ya'll seem to know a lot of things about him that I never saw while watching a playthrough...
Hmm, that might explain why ya'll seem to know a lot of things about him that I never saw while watching a playthrough...
Yeah, no kidding. Check this out:
This is so distressing, lol. So much happens to Sebastian offscreen that's barely referenced in dialogue or banter. He spends three years building a network of support for his cause (that he'll certainly come to use after the game, so it's not like him retaking Starkhavin came out of nowhere!), and then three more proving himself over and over to no effect to Elthina, who uses him just like Justinia used Leliana, but never gives him the relief he needs in either definitely accepting him back into the Chantry or turning him away for good. And none of that is shown or talked about in the game, it just... hides there... in the codex................... where no one will see it. So it looks like he's just standing in the Chantry for seven years while Hawke comes and goes, having random bouts of indecisiveness, when all this time he's running everywhere struggling with his identity and his duty and it's just... terrible. What a mess. He deserved so much better.
Yeah, no kidding. Check this out:Spoiler
This is so distressing, lol. So much happens to Sebastian offscreen that's barely referenced in dialogue or banter. He spends three years building a network of support for his cause (that he'll certainly come to use after the game, so it's not like him retaking Starkhavin came out of nowhere!), and then three more proving himself over and over to no effect to Elthina, who uses him just like Justinia used Leliana, but never gives him the relief he needs in either definitely accepting him back into the Chantry or turning him away for good. And none of that is shown or talked about in the game, it just... hides there... in the codex................... where no one will see it. So it looks like he's just standing in the Chantry for seven years while Hawke comes and goes, having random bouts of indecisiveness, when all this time he's running everywhere struggling with his identity and his duty and it's just... terrible. What a mess. He deserved so much better.
RIP Starkhaven DLC. :sniff sniff: 
LOL He even already rubs his neck when uncomfortable and makes awkward jokes about picturing shapes as bunnies.Anyway, I certainly do agree with your solution, serah! Let's bring him back into DA5 in the role of... counselor, not to say advisor per se, and give him a character arc that's resolved onscreen rather than in codex entries... and a very sweet romance and very fluffy pauldrons... yes. I hear that works miracles for certain ~controversial characters!
RIP Starkhaven DLC. :sniff sniff:
...........don't remind me...............
LOL He even already rubs his neck when uncomfortable and makes awkward jokes about picturing shapes as bunnies.
I have a type, I'll admit. 
THE BUNNIES THO. I didn't even make the connection, but of course they would both see bunnies. These nerds.
Man, Sebastian looks so good in that armor...
Ahem. Going back to the conversation earlier about Cullen's office being a public thoroughfare: that's one of the many things about Skyhold, architecturally and logistically, that really don't make sense to me. They bug me to the point that I actually sat down and rearranged the place in my mind so that it made more sense, and stuck the new set-up into my headcanon. I'm crazy that way 
Also, as far as I'm concerned, Cullen has a dress uniform - much like what we see at the Winter Palace - that he wears around Skyhold; the armor only goes on when he's sparring or heading outside the gates.
Man, Sebastian looks so good in that armor...
Yes it's what I think, too, why is he wearing an armor all the time, even in Skyhold? of course, it looks good, and he goes training regularly or show the soldiers some fighting tricks, but still... (he looked so good in the Winter Palace uniform, but it seems he doesn't enjoy wearing light uniforms)
So, what type of people hated Cullen and Sebastian? was it because of all that religious stuff they are (were) saying maybe? As I said I have to play again DA2 because I don't really remember how Cullen was in it or what he was saying. But I guess he was both physically and mentally different. They changed him so much physically compared to DAI, sometimes I have a hard time realizing it's the same character (except for Greg Ellis' voice but I was not playing in english, so...)
Yeah, no kidding. Check this out:Spoiler
This is so distressing, lol. So much happens to Sebastian offscreen that's barely referenced in dialogue or banter. He spends three years building a network of support for his cause (that he'll certainly come to use after the game, so it's not like him retaking Starkhavin came out of nowhere!), and then three more proving himself over and over to no effect to Elthina, who uses him just like Justinia used Leliana, but never gives him the relief he needs in either definitely accepting him back into the Chantry or turning him away for good. And none of that is shown or talked about in the game, it just... hides there... in the codex................... where no one will see it. So it looks like he's just standing in the Chantry for seven years while Hawke comes and goes, having random bouts of indecisiveness, when all this time he's running everywhere struggling with his identity and his duty and it's just... terrible. What a mess. He deserved so much better.
See, that puts a lot of his role in DA2 into a different light. I took his involvement until the very end as a full brother in the Chantry, which shows you can miss some important points just watching PTs (especially if you jump through slow or boring segments...I don't particularly like watching vids of fighting.) I may have to get it for myself as a XMas present this year, though I still think I'll get sucked in by Isabela instead, lol.
They should make the Sebastian DLC free now, it's getting quite old... and DA2 is not "so" popular so a free DLC might help to boost sales I guess.
Edit: Hey, I've seen that Cullen is in the game (for Android) "Heroes of Dragon age", is it a good game? I guess there is not dialogues or anything in it, just fights, but well.
So, what type of people hated Cullen and Sebastian?
I'd rather we not start pigeonholing fans in this way, as generalizing about why people like or dislike things is bad juju, just as we would rather people not stereotype us for why we like things. Suffice to say, the majority of the fandom hated Cullen after DA2, in part because of his support of the templar injustices, and this bled into harassment of his fans as well for a number of years (the Dark Times, I call them). You can read about a small part of it here. For Sebastian, it's similar but different, mostly stemming from his religious nature and his conflict with Anders at the end of the game, on which there are a wide variety of opinions.
They should make the Sebastian DLC free now, it's getting quite old... and DA2 is not "so" popular so a free DLC might help to boost sales I guess.
They have deals on this all the time where they give away all the DLC for free. You just have to watch for them.
See, that puts a lot of his role in DA2 into a different light. I took his involvement until the very end as a full brother in the Chantry, which shows you can miss some important points just watching PTs (especially if you jump through slow or boring segments...I don't particularly like watching vids of fighting.) I may have to get it for myself as a XMas present this year, though I still think I'll get sucked in by Isabela instead, lol.
I think riverbanks's point was more that even you *did* watch all the slow boring segments and the fighting, you would've missed this fact if you didn't read the codices. Part of that, I think, is the side effect of having two three-year gaps during the game, since SOMETHING most have happened during the interregnum periods. Part of that is the devs choosing to put a significant beat in Sebastian's storyarc into those gaps, in contrast to the other characters who seemed more or less on hold.
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