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[R2s Muse]

I'll admit my fear isn't all that rational. As much as I adore digital devices, and love video games, I've had some very weird things happen that make me wary. Stupidly of couse.

LOL Being wary certainly makes sense.

[Vanalia]

There's a tile in companions part about Loghain's fate. You need to use the last one, which says he's alive. 

Oh, thanks, I found it now

 

So: Loghain alive / Alistair and Anora on the throne / warden sacrificed, means that Loghain became a grey warden? and so we see him in DA:I? (and not Stroud) ?

[Ariella]

LOL Being wary certainly makes sense.

I had a Mac start smoking when I sat down next to it....

[riverbanks]

Oh, thanks, I found it now

 

So: Loghain alive / Alistair and Anora on the throne / warden sacrificed, means that Loghain became a grey warden? and so we see him in DA:I? (and not Stroud) ?

 

You don't need a sacrificed Warden to see Loghain, for the record - he can do the Dark Ritual too (although he hates it even more than Alistair does). Unless you also wanna see the differences in importing a world state with a sacrificed Warden, of course. There's a bunch of conditions that must be true for Loghain to show up as the Warden contact in DAI, but mainly you just have to set these three:

 

- Under Companions, Loghain's tile should be set to "Loghain alive and well." (lock this tile before doing the rest)

- Under Landsmeet, Alistair and Anora should rule jointly.

- Under Hero, choose whether your Warden died or survived.

 

Picking these three should set the rest of the necessary tiles internally, making all the other conditions be true (making Anora and Alistair rule jointly will set up all Alistair's tiles for you, choosing dead or alive Warden will set up the dark ritual/ultimate sacrifice tiles for you, etc). It's just important to lock Loghain's tile first, because messing with the others will keep reverting him to dead unless his tile is locked. Always good to double or triple check one last time that he really is alive in your Tapestry before importing, in any case, it takes too many hours to get to his quest and find out your save didn't import correctly.

 

(side note: if you're romancing Alistair, it's also possible to recruit Loghain and maintain your Alistair romance active in your world state, whether your Warden is dead or alive. A little more involved, but it's doable. )

[Tishina]

You don't need a sacrificed Warden to see Loghain, for the record - he can do the Dark Ritual too (although he hates it even more than Alistair does). Unless you also wanna see the differences in importing a world state with a sacrificed Warden, of course. There's a bunch of conditions that must be true for Loghain to show up as the Warden contact in DAI, but mainly you just have to set these three:

 

- Under Companions, Loghain's tile should be set to "Loghain alive and well." (lock this tile before doing the rest)

- Under Landsmeet, Alistair and Anora should rule jointly.

- Under Hero, choose whether your Warden died or survived.

 

Picking these three should set the rest of the necessary tiles internally, making all the other conditions be true (making Anora and Alistair rule jointly will set up all Alistair's tiles for you, choosing dead or alive Warden will set up the dark ritual/ultimate sacrifice tiles for you, etc). It's just important to lock Loghain's tile first, because messing with the others will keep reverting him to dead unless his tile is locked. Always good to double or triple check one last time that he really is alive in your Tapestry before importing, in any case, it takes too many hours to get to his quest and find out your save didn't import correctly.

 

(side note: if you're romancing Alistair, it's also possible to recruit Loghain and maintain your Alistair romance active in your world state, whether your Warden is dead or alive. A little more involved, but it's doable. )

How? I thought he left no matter what you did if you let Loghain live??

[Rascoth]

- Under Landsmeet, Alistair and Anora should rule jointly.

Actually this one isn't true.This tile can show anything. If you made Loghain Grey Warden and didn't let him kill Archdemon, he'll appear in Inquisition.

 

How? I thought he left no matter what you did if you let Loghain live??

Yes, Alistair leaves your party no matter what, if you let Loghain live. Only his fate differs (Alistair can become drunk, King or be dead)

[Vanalia]

Yes, I wonder what kind of change I could make in my DA:O or DA2 tiles to directly see (or as soon as possible) if my Keep was imported correctly. Is there some little special line the characters can have at the beginning of the story, depending on the choices you made in the Keep? I see there is a way to kill Morrigan or Leliana in the tiles, but I guess they never take that into account and they will always both show up in DA:I.

 

 

My Cousland who romanced Alistair was for my first playthrough. For the "Loghain alive" I chose the choices I made with my warden cityelf who romanced Zevran, so I won't have a problem with Alistair's romance anyway

 

In the DA:2 tiles it seems I can choose if my Hawke was friendly or not with Cullen, but it doesn't seem to have an impact on DA:I...

[Rascoth]

Actually Leliana brings up (and pretty early on, in Haven) traveling with Warden, her death, the fact that she left the Warden or that she never met him/her. Depends on your Keep choices.

[riverbanks]

Actually this one isn't true.This tile can show anything. If you made Loghain Grey Warden and didn't let him kill Archdemon, he'll appear in Inquisition.

 

Not anything, no. It has to be either Anora solo queen, Anora and male Warden ruling jointly, or Alistair and Anora ruling jointly. Alistair ruling solo or with Queen Cousland are not possible scenarios with Loghain recruited, for instance, and they'll revert Loghain to dead.

 

I suggested the Alistair/Anora ending to Vanalia because she has mentioned before that her next playthrough will be siding with the mages, so she'll have the chance to see King Alistair's cameo if he's married to Anora. The other options are having Alistair killed off or exiled, which are not as interesting in gameplay terms, as her never shows up again.

 

How? I thought he left no matter what you did if you let Loghain live??

 

In-game, he leaves the party if you recruit Loghain, but it doesn't necessarily break his romance. If you talk to him after the Landsmeet he'll be super bitter, but he doesn't actually break up with you at any point (unlike his solo king break up scene). If you try any romantic advances on Zevran and Leliana at this point too, they'll refuse you because you're still with Alistair. And later, if your Warden survives and you import them into Awakening, when Alistair shows up he'll give you the same lines as for a vanilla romance - he'll call you love, say he misses you, etc. In roleplaying terms, it makes sense: months go between the Landsmeet and Awakening, and since Alistair's been hardened at this point in order to marry Anora, he's a lot more mature - despite his kneejerk reaction when you recruit Loghain, the relationship still can be fixed, in time.

 

Anyway, since it's possible in-game, the Keep does acknowledge this possibility too - once you've set up the conditions for Loghain to live, you can go back and lock Alistair's romance tile, and then into the little tile that determines the fate of the relationship and choose "remained Alistair's mistress" if your Warden lived, or "didn't remain Alistair's mistress" if she died (which is acknowledgement that the relationship existed, opposite the "Warden & Alistair were not lovers" one).

 

This of course doesn't have any effect in the game (as the Warden/Al relationship is only ever acknowledged in DAI when he's a Warden anyway), but for the sake of registering your hero's full history, this is a much more accurate record of events than for a broken Sebastian romance, for instance, where choosing the "didn't kill Anders" tile simply overturns your "romanced Sebastian" tile to "No one romanced," without even leaving any record that you did romance him once, it just didn't end well - instead of registering a romance failure state like Alistair's, you only have the options of did or didn't romance him at all.

[Rascoth]

Not anything, no. It has to be either Anora solo queen, Anora and male Warden ruling jointly, or Alistair and Anora ruling jointly. Alistair ruling solo or with Queen Cousland are not possible scenarios with Loghain recruited, for instance, and they'll revert Loghain to dead.

Oh, yeah. Sorry. I rarely set my world states like that, so it slipped my mind. But you're right, Alistair solo and with Cousland Queen will revert your choice.

[riverbanks]

Yes, I wonder what kind of change I could make in my DA:O or DA2 tiles to directly see (or as soon as possible) if my Keep was imported correctly. Is there some little special line the characters can have at the beginning of the story, depending on the choices you made in the Keep?

 

To check if Loghain is indeed alive in your game, once you're free to move around in Haven, immediately find Threnn (the quartermaster, she's standing outside the Chantry in Haven, beside the requisition table near Leliana's tent) and ask her how did she end up working for the Inquisition. This will make her talk about Loghain, and if Loghain is alive in your world state, you'll have an extra dialogue option to ask her that you've heard he's a Grey Warden now. If you can see this question in her dialogue tree, then everything imported right and Loghain will be your Warden contact in Here Lies The Abyss.

 

In the DA:2 tiles it seems I can choose if my Hawke was friendly or not with Cullen, but it doesn't seem to have an impact on DA:I...

 

Where are you seeing this tile??? This Cullen and Hawke friendship tile used to be available when the Keep first opened, but they removed it shortly after. I'd be overjoyed if they brought it back, but I'm not finding it anywhere in my own Tapestry...

[R2s Muse]

This of course doesn't have any effect in the game (as the Warden/Al relationship is only ever acknowledged in DAI when he's a Warden anyway), but for the sake of registering your hero's full history, this is a much more accurate record of events than for a broken Sebastian romance, for instance, where choosing the "didn't kill Anders" tile simply overturns your "romanced Sebastian" tile to "No one romanced," without even leaving any record that you did romance him once, it just didn't end well - instead of registering a romance failure state like Alistair's, you only have the options of did or didn't romance him at all.

:single tear: Ah, the Sebastian romance. Once again the redheaded stepchild.

Altho, did you mean "killed Anders" overturns your Seb romance? I haven't played around with this. derp nevermind. apparently not enough coffee yet this morning to disentangle my double negatives. 

[R2s Muse]

Where are you seeing this tile??? This Cullen and Hawke friendship tile used to be available when the Keep first opened, but they removed it shortly after. I'd be overjoyed if they brought it back, but I'm not finding it anywhere in my own Tapestry...

Yes, this tile is gone, so that would be an interesting development.

[Tishina]

Not anything, no. It has to be either Anora solo queen, Anora and male Warden ruling jointly, or Alistair and Anora ruling jointly. Alistair ruling solo or with Queen Cousland are not possible scenarios with Loghain recruited, for instance, and they'll revert Loghain to dead.

 

I suggested the Alistair/Anora ending to Vanalia because she has mentioned before that her next playthrough will be siding with the mages, so she'll have the chance to see King Alistair's cameo if he's married to Anora. The other options are having Alistair killed off or exiled, which are not as interesting in gameplay terms, as her never shows up again.

 

 

In-game, he leaves the party if you recruit Loghain, but it doesn't necessarily break his romance. If you talk to him after the Landsmeet he'll be super bitter, but he doesn't actually break up with you at any point (unlike his solo king break up scene). If you try any romantic advances on Zevran and Leliana at this point too, they'll refuse you because you're still with Alistair. And later, if your Warden survives and you import them into Awakening, when Alistair shows up he'll give you the same lines as for a vanilla romance - he'll call you love, say he misses you, etc. In roleplaying terms, it makes sense: months go between the Landsmeet and Awakening, and since Alistair's been hardened at this point in order to marry Anora, he's a lot more mature - despite his kneejerk reaction when you recruit Loghain, the relationship still can be fixed, in time.

 

Anyway, since it's possible in-game, the Keep does acknowledge this possibility too - once you've set up the conditions for Loghain to live, you can go back and lock Alistair's romance tile, and then into the little tile that determines the fate of the relationship and choose "remained Alistair's mistress" if your Warden lived, or "didn't remain Alistair's mistress" if she died (which is acknowledgement that the relationship existed, opposite the "Warden & Alistair were not lovers" one).

 

This of course doesn't have any effect in the game (as the Warden/Al relationship is only ever acknowledged in DAI when he's a Warden anyway), but for the sake of registering your hero's full history, this is a much more accurate record of events than for a broken Sebastian romance, for instance, where choosing the "didn't kill Anders" tile simply overturns your "romanced Sebastian" tile to "No one romanced," without even leaving any record that you did romance him once, it just didn't end well - instead of registering a romance failure state like Alistair's, you only have the options of did or didn't romance him at all.

I had no idea this was possible, I had the impression from what everyone was reporting that if you recruited Loghain and he left the party, that was it. I suppose the ones I'd seen must all have involved either a solo Alistair or some other factor. I wonder if that scene at Vigil's Keep was intentional, though. My Aeducan who let him break up with her and immediately took up with Zevran also got that speech about missing her, which I assume was something not triggering right, lol. I wish I'd known, I'd have absolutely have played it that way at least once, but if I go back to do another PT at this point, it probably won't be an Alistair romance...

[Twilight_Princess]

In-game, he leaves the party if you recruit Loghain, but it doesn't necessarily break his romance. If you talk to him after the Landsmeet he'll be super bitter, but he doesn't actually break up with you at any point (unlike his solo king break up scene). If you try any romantic advances on Zevran and Leliana at this point too, they'll refuse you because you're still with Alistair. And later, if your Warden survives and you import them into Awakening, when Alistair shows up he'll give you the same lines as for a vanilla romance - he'll call you love, say he misses you, etc. In roleplaying terms, it makes sense: months go between the Landsmeet and Awakening, and since Alistair's been hardened at this point in order to marry Anora, he's a lot more mature - despite his kneejerk reaction when you recruit Loghain, the relationship still can be fixed, in time.

 

Anyway, since it's possible in-game, the Keep does acknowledge this possibility too - once you've set up the conditions for Loghain to live, you can go back and lock Alistair's romance tile, and then into the little tile that determines the fate of the relationship and choose "remained Alistair's mistress" if your Warden lived, or "didn't remain Alistair's mistress" if she died (which is acknowledgement that the relationship existed, opposite the "Warden & Alistair were not lovers" one).

 

This of course doesn't have any effect in the game (as the Warden/Al relationship is only ever acknowledged in DAI when he's a Warden anyway), but for the sake of registering your hero's full history, this is a much more accurate record of events than for a broken Sebastian romance, for instance, where choosing the "didn't kill Anders" tile simply overturns your "romanced Sebastian" tile to "No one romanced," without even leaving any record that you did romance him once, it just didn't end well - instead of registering a romance failure state like Alistair's, you only have the options of did or didn't romance him at all.

 

I made this little discovery recently myself and wanted to talk about it with other Alistair fans . I was messing around with the the Keep and was delighted to see that it lets you have your cake and eat it too,  so to speak. I always thought if you spared Loghian it was an automatic end to your relationship with Alistair but the Keep seems to say otherwise. As someone who hates having to do the dark ritual every time ( I have an inability to romance anyone else in Origins ), I hope this means a happy conclusion is possible without having to make god babies! This is why I'm hoping King Alistair returns in the upcoming DLC, I want to see all these little nuances finally. You have some wardens who are mistresses, some who are in a political marriages with Alistair,  others who are queens and now (thanks to the Keep) it seems you can still have him love the warden even if you spare Loghain!

 

That particular tile intrigues me the most because its obviously something that's unresolved. They could have had you default to unromanced if you spare Loghain or if he breaks up with you but the fact that, that special tile exists makes me think it will result in something. It could just end up being Alistair expressing regret in a conversation but I'd like to think it means that he has tried or will try to get back together with the love of his life. We know drunk Alistair turned his life around, got sober and rejoined the wardens in Orlais so maybe a King Alistair might also correct a mistake after having a few years to reflect on it.

 

*edit*

 

I misread your post *face palm*. I thought you were only talking about the "did not remain Alistair's mistress" tile where he clearly still has feelings for the warden (heart symbol). That's why I was going on about things being "unresolved" . I feel silly! And I even quoted you! What does that say about my pessimism that the best I thought I could have in this scenario was Alistair breaking up with you but still having feelings XD.  I'll be doing the "having cake and eating it too" import next.

[Ariella]

Yes, this tile is gone, so that would be an interesting development.

I remember Vanalia said she's French? In that case all I can think of is it might not have gotten taken out of that localization, but I admit, it's a stretch.

I miss that tile.

[BevH]

I made this little discovery recently myself and wanted to talk about it with other Alistair fans . I was messing around with the the Keep and was delighted to see that it lets you have your cake and eat it too,  so to speak. I always thought if you spared Loghian it was an automatic end to your relationship with Alistair but the Keep seems to say otherwise. As someone who hates having to do the dark ritual every time ( I have an inability to romance anyone else in Origins ), I hope this means a happy conclusion is possible without having to make god babies! This is why I'm hoping King Alistair returns in the upcoming DLC, I want to see all these little nuances finally. You have some wardens who are mistresses, some who are in a political marriages with Alistair,  others who are queens and now (thanks to the Keep) it seems you can still have him love the warden even if you spare Loghain!

 

That particular tile intrigues me the most because its obviously something that's unresolved. They could have had you default to unromanced if you spare Loghain or if he breaks up with you but the fact that, that special tile exists makes me think it will result in something. It could just end up being Alistair expressing regret in a conversation but I'd like to think it means that he has tried or will try to get back together with the love of his life. We know drunk Alistair turned his life around, got sober and rejoined the wardens in Orlais so maybe a King Alistair might also correct a mistake after having a few years to reflect on it.

DAO romance works differently than DA2's does. You're locked into Alistair's romance after the tent scene, I believe. (It's been a while and I don't remember exactly.) In DA2, romances weren't locked in until the scene with the companions before the final battle. Hence the reason that Seb's romance wouldn't be complete if you elected to let Anders live.

 

I have to admit, in all the times I romanced Alistair, I never let Loghain live, so I was unaware that the romance could continue if you spared Loghain and Alistair as king. Interesting... 

 

Edited for ToP:

 

Angry Cullen during the battle in the Arbor Wilds

[Ariella]

So has everyone seen this yet from the twitter thread?

Spoiler

https://pbs.twimg.co...WAgVAAAGuu6.jpg

[Rascoth]

So has everyone seen this yet from the twitter thread?

Spoiler

https://pbs.twimg.co...WAgVAAAGuu6.jpg

Yeah, I did. I really wonder what's that. It looks like Hinterlands, but... 

[BevH]

There's definitely an eluvian, but I wonder what's going on in the lower right-hand corner?

 

Nevermind... it's another eluvian.   

[Rascoth]

There's definitely an eluvian, but I wonder what's going on in the lower right-hand corner?

I think that's second eluvian.

[BevH]

I think that's second eluvian.

LOL - I saw that on second look and edited my post.

[Rascoth]

LOL - I saw that on second look and edited my post.

I know. I posted and saw you'd edited your own post xD

[Ariella]

I have this image of eluvian hopping through the Hinterlands now.

Crap. Combine this with the Crossroads.

Constants and variables. If we start seeing lighthouses, I'm leaving.

[Hellion Rex]