I have this image of eluvian hopping through the Hinterlands now.
Crap. Combine this with the Crossroads.
Constants and variables. If we start seeing lighthouses, I'm leaving.
Hmm, you know what it also looks like? The mirrors we hopped around with in the Fade in DA:O. I mean, why have two eluvians mere yards away from each other?
Hmm, you know what it also looks like? The mirrors we hopped around with in the Fade in DA:O. I mean, why have two eluvians mere yards away from each other?
Gah... now I have to go back and play to find this, as I can't remember. I remember the pedestals, but not the mirrors.
I get the feeling the art isn't literal. I think the eluvian represent the return of elven magic. And there's the Eluvian in the end sequence.
I can hear Cullen now.
"I told you. I TOLD you! No one ever listens until it's too late."
It's from the first part after you meet Niall. You pop around different little islands up and down rat holes, but sometimes through mirrors. The demon at the center was some desire demon, and the Black City loomed in the sky.
But, yeah, I'm sure you're right that they're supposed to be elvhen. Hmm... so long as one of them leads to Solas... 
It's from the first part after you meet Niall. You pop around different little islands up and down rat holes, but sometimes through mirrors. The demon at the center was some desire demon, and the Black City loomed in the sky.
But, yeah, I'm sure you're right that they're supposed to be elvhen. Hmm... so long as one of them leads to Solas...
I had no idea this was possible, I had the impression from what everyone was reporting that if you recruited Loghain and he left the party, that was it. I suppose the ones I'd seen must all have involved either a solo Alistair or some other factor. I wonder if that scene at Vigil's Keep was intentional, though. My Aeducan who let him break up with her and immediately took up with Zevran also got that speech about missing her, which I assume was something not triggering right, lol. I wish I'd known, I'd have absolutely have played it that way at least once, but if I go back to do another PT at this point, it probably won't be an Alistair romance...
At a guess, I'd think what you're seeing is people reporting on what they think happens to Alistair's romance when you recruit Loghain, rather than their own experiences. It's really really rare to see people who romance Alistair and spare Loghain in the same playthrough (I've personally only ever seen like two other people ever talk about a world state like that), and most Alistair romancers will not even think of sparing Loghain or be willing to lose Alistair in their party. I know I've see a lot of people assume Alistair will break up with you for sparing Loghain because he's widely known to leave the party, but I'd have to guess they've never actually tried it themselves, or this (the fact that he never actually breaks up with you and you can keep his romance active through the ending) would be more widespread knowledge.
As for whether it was intentional - probably not. Awakening was very poorly conceived in terms of importing saves (my canon world state is actually impossible to reproduce correctly in it, for instance - I have to either ressurrect my dead Warden, or miss out on Loghain's cameo and Nathaniel's corresponding dialogue about it entirely), so I wouldn't say much of anything there was intentional at all. But, y'know, the romance dialogue happened, and the devs have decided to consider it canon that the romance could be continuted, so~ there we are.
(I do rather like your Cousland-Theirin political marriage with a serving of consort Zevran on the side, though! Pity we can't have all that and a recruited Loghain on top, for full having-and-eating of cake effect. )
I made this little discovery recently myself and wanted to talk about it with other Alistair fans
. I was messing around with the the Keep and was delighted to see that it lets you have your cake and eat it too, so to speak. I always thought if you spared Loghian it was an automatic end to your relationship with Alistair but the Keep seems to say otherwise. As someone who hates having to do the dark ritual every time ( I have an inability to romance anyone else in Origins
That particular tile intrigues me the most because its obviously something that's unresolved. They could have had you default to unromanced if you spare Loghain or if he breaks up with you but the fact that, that special tile exists makes me think it will result in something. It could just end up being Alistair expressing regret in a conversation but I'd like to think it means that he has tried or will try to get back together with the love of his life. We know drunk Alistair turned his life around, got sober and rejoined the wardens in Orlais so maybe a King Alistair might also correct a mistake after having a few years to reflect on it.
For the record, this particular arrangement in the tiles (staying in a romance with Alistair even while recruiting Loghain) was questioned during the beta, and the devs acknowledged that it was there because it was something that was possible to do in-game. I don't really think it means anything other than letting you record your Warden's story as it happened, but then again I'm not personally counting on Alistair (any version of him) getting any further development or content, his time in the spotlight seems to be pretty done at this point. I think all that tile means is that you have canon sanctioning to say that yes, your Warden and Alistair are still together even despite the whole Loghain issue - Awakening showed as canon that at some point you and Al worked things out and reconciled, and the Keep further proves that as a valid world state.
In any case, yes, it's possible to have a happy ending for an Alistair romance even without that detestable ritual. You just have to be willing to lose him in your party for a while, and then sacrificing Loghain to the Archdemon. I didn't take this path myself because I actually wanted my Warden to die for other roleplaying reasons, but it's just as easy to let Loghain take the final blow in your place, and remain Alistair's mistress after that - you get to keep the boyfran, without doing the ritual. It's even possible to headcanon that with a Warden Alistair now, after what we've learned of exiled Alistair eventually sobering and rejoining the Wardens - it's a longer, more painful path for the two of them, but if you absolutely don't want him to be king, you can let him be exiled, sober up and come back, and headcanon that the relationship between him and your Warden picked back up (or even started over from scratch) at that point, years down the road. You get all the delicious angst, but still keep the happy ending. 
At a guess, I'd think what you're seeing is people reporting on what they think happens to Alistair's romance when you recruit Loghain, rather than their own experiences. It's really really rare to see people who romance Alistair and spare Loghain in the same playthrough (I've personally only ever seen like two other people ever talk about a world state like that), and most Alistair romancers will not even think of sparing Loghain or be willing to lose Alistair in their party. I know I've see a lot of people assume Alistair will break up with you for sparing Loghain because he's widely known to leave the party, but I'd have to guess they've never actually tried it themselves, or this (the fact that he never actually breaks up with you and you can keep his romance active through the ending) would be more widespread knowledge.
As for whether it was intentional - probably not. Awakening was very poorly conceived in terms of importing saves (my canon world state is actually impossible to reproduce correctly in it, for instance - I have to either ressurrect my dead Warden, or miss out on Loghain's cameo and Nathaniel's corresponding dialogue about it entirely), so I wouldn't say much of anything there was intentional at all. But, y'know, the romance dialogue happened, and the devs have decided to consider it canon that the romance could be continuted, so~ there we are.
(I do rather like your Cousland-Theirin political marriage with a serving of consort Zevran on the side, though! Pity we can't have all that and a recruited Loghain on top, for full having-and-eating of cake effect.
Well, from what you said, it also requires marrying Alistair to Anora on top of it, so yes, probably relatively few people ever went there.
I like that particular one too, btw, and if I were to replay DAO right now, that's actually one of the two or three I really want to play/replay. One of the others being a mage origin for the Cullen content (though I can't recall at this moment what particular twist I was considering to go with it...)
DAO romance works differently than DA2's does. You're locked into Alistair's romance after the tent scene, I believe. (It's been a while and I don't remember exactly.) In DA2, romances weren't locked in until the scene with the companions before the final battle. Hence the reason that Seb's romance wouldn't be complete if you elected to let Anders live.
That's not exactly correct. Technically, all DA2 romances "lock in" (in the sense that you are locked out of all other romances) at different points - Anders' and Merrill's are locked in by letting them move into the manor after the sex scene in Act 2, Fenris' and Isabela's are locked in when you agree to get back together during their Questioning Beliefs quests in Act 3, and Sebastian's is locked in when you either marry him (friendmance) or "get engaged" of sorts (rivalmance) in Act 3. By the time you get to the final goodbyes in the Gallows, you're either married or engaged to Sebastian, or he's walked out on you entirely - his romance is complete, there's no further to go.
I questioned the breaking of Sebastian's romance tile if you spare Anders a lot during the Keep's beta because it used to be a popular headcanon among people who didn't want to kill Anders that their Hawkes would later talk to Sebastian, calm him down and make up, everything would eventually work out, etc. And what the devs said was that this was a writing room decision supposed to signal that Sebastian leaves Hawke if she spares Anders, no matter what (if they're married he annuls it, if they're engaged he breaks it off, etc). That's kind of what sucked about it, people invested a lot in their "everything will be alright" headcanons, and the writers said nope it won't, it's literally do or die.
But in technical terms, it's not that Seb's romance doesn't complete - the romance itself is completed in-game; it's just that you get a failure state, and rather than make yet another tile just to signal that you romanced Sebastian once but then he left you, they decided to just let Anders' tile revert your romance one. I mean, in theory I get it, it's a ton and a half of background work to add more and more tiles that react to each other. Adding more tiles to Alistair makes sense because he and his romance are so popular, tons of people will want to detail every last breath of their romance - adding more stuff specifically for Sebastian when his romance is probably the least popular one in the entire series and will have the least amount of people actually using his tiles is harder to justify. I don't like it, but I get it. They weighted whether it was worth the time/effort/resources and found it wasn't, one tile reverting each other was enough to send the message.
It sucks, but at the same time... I still thank the Maker every day that they even acknowledged Sebastian's romance was real, to begin with. You can't detail your Sebmance as extensively as Al's, but just the fact that Seb is there at all with a heart tile of his own is already a victory.
Huh, I didn't realize he acted lovey-dovey in awakenings if you side with Loghian and make him king. That's what I love about dragon age , always finding out something new 
.
To check if Loghain is indeed alive in your game, once you're free to move around in Haven, immediately find Threnn (the quartermaster, she's standing outside the Chantry in Haven, beside the requisition table near Leliana's tent) and ask her how did she end up working for the Inquisition. This will make her talk about Loghain, and if Loghain is alive in your world state, you'll have an extra dialogue option to ask her that you've heard he's a Grey Warden now. If you can see this question in her dialogue tree, then everything imported right and Loghain will be your Warden contact in Here Lies The Abyss.
Where are you seeing this tile??? This Cullen and Hawke friendship tile used to be available when the Keep first opened, but they removed it shortly after. I'd be overjoyed if they brought it back, but I'm not finding it anywhere in my own Tapestry...
Thanks for the information, I'll talk to her to see right away if Loghain will be my warden contact or not.
Hmm I just remember I did choose that tile (friendship with Cullen) months ago, but you're right, it seems it's not there anymore. Why did they put that tile in the first place? did they intend to add some friendly dialogue between them and then they cancelled it?
I also have the DA:O choice "sided with the Templars" and "did as Cullen said and killed all the mages". Does he say anything in DA:I if we sided with him or not? if I remember well, I sided with the Templars but refused to kill all the mages.
Well, from what you said, it also requires marrying Alistair to Anora on top of it, so yes, probably relatively few people ever went there.
I like that particular one too, btw, and if I were to replay DAO right now, that's actually one of the two or three I really want to play/replay. One of the others being a mage origin for the Cullen content (though I can't recall at this moment what particular twist I was considering to go with it...)
My Amell ended up romancing Jowan (with a mod) after kissing Cullen (with a mod), and my Surana ended up romancing Leliana after briefly flirting with Cullen through the vanilla dialogue. I never imported these world states into DAI because they're some of my "all the Wardens survive but only my main is the HoF" headcanon playthroughs, but I rather liked the twists in them. Particularly the Surana one - though I have reservations about those infamous lines with an unromanced Cullen hounding Leliana with questions about a dead mage Warden, I actually do like the general idea of a (perfectly happy and fulfilled) romanced Cullen glancing at Leliana every now and then and just realizing out of nowhere, this woman standing right next to me right now is dating that one mage girl I used to know from the Circle a million years ago, how unlikely is that.
I also really amuse myself imagining grown up Cullen and Amell meeting and chatting amiably again after like a decade with no tension or anything, Cullen just asking what's up, Amell going "well I'm still with Jowan" and Cullen is like t-t-t-the-b-b-bblood-m-m-mage???? reeling so hard he almost falls down.
Hmm I just remember I did choose that tile (friendship with Cullen) months ago, but you're right, it seems it's not there anymore. Why did they put that tile in the first place? did they intend to add some friendly dialogue between them and then they cancelled it?
I also have the DA:O choice "sided with the Templars" and "did as Cullen said and killed all the mages". Does he say anything in DA:I if we sided with him or not? if I remember well, I sided with the Templars but refused to kill all the mages.
When they removed it, Mike said that it was because there was no way to track Cullen's friendship in-game, so that was pretty much a headcanon tile. There are other headcanon tiles still present at the Keep, though, so my theory for that one being removed in specific is that at some point they actually meant to have Cullen react to Hawke being in Skyhold, and that tile would determine if Cullen would be friendly or hostile to Hawke, according to what you wanted to see (I was really happy about that myself, because the most popular headcanon in fandom is that Cullen hates or fears Hawke somehow, but I prefer to think they were friends and I'd be really sad if Cullen reacted negatively to seeing my Hawke again). But then at some point this whole hypothetical Cullen-Hawke interaction was probably cut from the plans, and that tile didn't make sense anymore. It wasn't going to be used for anything and people were just confused about it... so they just deleted it altogether.
As for the Templar tiles, Cullen doesn't say anything different in DAI if you choose to agree with his request to kill all the mages. What happens by choosing this tile is that Wynne's tile is set to dead (because she confronts you when you agree with Cullen), but that doesn't make any difference in DAI either. He says the same vague lines about "what happened in Ferelden's Circle," without going into detail.
(For the record, it's also possible to do the reverse of what you did, kill all the mages anyway even without agreeing to Cullen's request. You can tell him you'll see what's going on before making your decision, then agree to the annulment with Greagoir later - so you can annul the Circle without losing Wynne as a companion, too; that's what i did. But this too doesn't make any difference in DAI later.)
I'm still wondering what is the funniest to play in DA2: rogue, mage, warrior? I hate playing Dragon age on PC, or maybe it's just the fights interface of PC DA2, but I think I won't do a warrior because i hate running after ennemies. So what is the less boring, archer or mage?
If I choose mage I guess it will kill Bethany, and if I do anything else it will kill Carver. Bethany seems more friendly?
One thing they seemed to have changed (for the better) in DA:I is the size and lack of diversity of the women breasts. In DA:I they seem more realistic and different from a character to another, and that's good. In DA:O or DA2 they always seemed really big and the same size for all the women (strange to see Hawke's sister and mother having exactly the same body shape despite the age difference), including the very old women, they had the big and firm breasts of 20 years old girls, it always looked strange to me. All the women had the same body I guess (except Morrigan?)
I'm still wondering what is the funniest to play in DA2: rogue, mage, warrior? I hate playing Dragon age on PC, or maybe it's just the fights interface of PC DA2, but I think I won't do a warrior because i hate running after ennemies. So what is the less boring, archer or mage?
If I choose mage I guess it will kill Bethany, and if I do anything else it will kill Carver. Bethany seems more friendly?
One thing they seemed to have changed (for the better) in DA:I if the size of the women breasts. They seem different from a character to another, and that's good. In DA:O or DA2 they always seemed really big and the same size for all the women (strange to see Hawke's sister and mother having exactly the same shape despite the age difference), including the very old women, they had the big and firm breasts of 20 years old girls, it always looked strange to me. All the women had the same body I guess (except Morrigan?)
It especially shows when you put Leliana and Wynne next to each other, or see Bethany and Hawke's mother next to each other, their bodies are exactly the same.
Yeah i played as a mage and had Carver alive but I don't really remember how it was to fight as a mage in DA:2. So I'll try an archer I guess, and keep Bethany.
But I understand it was because of money restrictions.
Hmm, you know what it also looks like? The mirrors we hopped around with in the Fade in DA:O. I mean, why have two eluvians mere yards away from each other?
Also in DAI. Flemeth managed to alter an Eluvian to make it enter the Fade. When we are in Nightmare's desmesne, we run into what look like eluvians a bunch of times.
Hmm, you know what it also looks like? The mirrors we hopped around with in the Fade in DA:O. I mean, why have two eluvians mere yards away from each other?
Also in DAI. Flemeth managed to alter an Eluvian to make it enter the Fade. When we are in Nightmare's desmesne, we run into what look like eluvians a bunch of times.
I'm still wondering what is the funniest to play in DA2: rogue, mage, warrior? I hate playing Dragon age on PC, or maybe it's just the fights interface of PC DA2, but I think I won't do a warrior because i hate running after ennemies. So what is the less boring, archer or mage?
If I choose mage I guess it will kill Bethany, and if I do anything else it will kill Carver. Bethany seems more friendly?
I'd say neither are boring, combat in DA2 is really fast and dynamic. It's actually the only Dragon Age game where I really enjoy playing a mage in combat, because their moves are more dynamic and they're not so rooted in place. Even warriors are very fast fighters in DA2, two-handed warriors in particular are surprisingly lightweight compared to how heavy they feel in DAO and DAI.
As for Bethany versus Carver.... ideally you should do a playthrough of each because they're both lovely characters and really worth knowing, their relationships with Hawke are very different, but both very touching. But if you only intend to do one playthrough of DA2 ever, I'd recommend keeping Bethany. She's an.... easier character to get along with than Carver, even at her worse she'll still the sweetest. Carver is more complicated, his relationship with Hawke is very rocky and emotionally exhausting at points, and while I personally love him to bits, I can see why people would find him frustrating too. (And, uh, no spoilers, but don't take Bethany into the Deep Roads, when the time comes. She'll be happier that way.)
[edit] Ah so you've already played with Carver once, so definitely go for Bethany this time. It's worth getting to know both of them.
I think the eluvian represent the return of elven magic. And there's the Eluvian in the end sequence.
Well, I wouldn't even say it's so much of a return as much as a resurgence. And that massive mirror at the end almost seemed like a "master" mirror of sorts, due to the enormous size.
Also, I always got the sense that maybe Mythal was responsible for the creation of the great mirrors?
I understand what you're saying, at the same time the majority of Thedosians think elven magic is destroyed by Tevinter. It's kind of like the dragons.Well, I wouldn't even say it's so much of a return as much as a resurgence. And that massive mirror at the end almost seemed like a "master" mirror of sorts, due to the enormous size.
Also, I always got the sense that maybe Mythal was responsible for the creation of the great mirrors?
My Amell ended up romancing Jowan (with a mod) after kissing Cullen (with a mod), and my Surana ended up romancing Leliana after briefly flirting with Cullen through the vanilla dialogue. I never imported these world states into DAI because they're some of my "all the Wardens survive but only my main is the HoF" headcanon playthroughs, but I rather liked the twists in them. Particularly the Surana one - though I have reservations about those infamous lines with an unromanced Cullen hounding Leliana with questions about a dead mage Warden, I actually do like the general idea of a (perfectly happy and fulfilled) romanced Cullen glancing at Leliana every now and then and just realizing out of nowhere, this woman standing right next to me right now is dating that one mage girl I used to know from the Circle a million years ago, how unlikely is that.
I also really amuse myself imagining grown up Cullen and Amell meeting and chatting amiably again after like a decade with no tension or anything, Cullen just asking what's up, Amell going "well I'm still with Jowan" and Cullen is like
I've seen those mods. I thought about trying the one that lets you recruit Cullen, but I thought it might break one I already had, plus she had it locked so you had to side with the Templars for it to work (I understood her reasoning, but my Suranas weren't going there, lol.) I really want to play my Surana-Leliana WS for the same reason, but that particular playthrough is still in the future (I need to finish off AT LEAST Volya and Reska first, lol.)
I'm still wondering what is the funniest to play in DA2: rogue, mage, warrior? I hate playing Dragon age on PC, or maybe it's just the fights interface of PC DA2, but I think I won't do a warrior because i hate running after ennemies. So what is the less boring, archer or mage?
If I choose mage I guess it will kill Bethany, and if I do anything else it will kill Carver. Bethany seems more friendly?
One thing they seemed to have changed (for the better) in DA:I is the size and lack of diversity of the women breasts. In DA:I they seem more realistic and different from a character to another, and that's good. In DA:O or DA2 they always seemed really big and the same size for all the women (strange to see Hawke's sister and mother having exactly the same body shape despite the age difference), including the very old women, they had the big and firm breasts of 20 years old girls, it always looked strange to me. All the women had the same body I guess (except Morrigan?)
There were any number of NPCs in DAO with different body shapes, including comfortably well rounded older women. I actually feel DAI severely lacks diversity in women's body shapes within races, except for some very minimal variety among the female companions and advisors, and there's not a single female NPC who could be described as even slightly plump or broad shouldered. I'm also not sure anyone can describe the female dwarf's torpedo boobs as realistic, lol.
There were any number of NPCs in DAO with different body shapes, including comfortably well rounded older women. I actually feel DAI severely lacks diversity in women's body shapes within races, except for some very minimal variety among the female companions and advisors, and there's not a single female NPC who could be described as even slightly plump or broad shouldered. I'm also not sure anyone can describe the female dwarf's torpedo boobs as realistic, lol.
Of course there are still unrealistic bodies... and it still lacks variety, but yes, I was mainly thinking about the companions and advisors. Even if we are far from the cloned NPCs of Witcher 1 (all the old women for example had the same "skin", you could meet 4 clones in the same street, haha, but at least they didn't have the body of sexy young girls).
They could have done like in SWTOR and enable the choice of body shape (even if for SWTOR men the differences were too exagerated between the different shapes, but for the women I think it was quite fine, if I remember well)
I understand what you're saying, at the same time the majority of Thedosians think elven magic is destroyed by Tevinter. It's kind of like the dragons.
And I keep wondering what she was looking at in the post cred scene. What didd Flemeth see before Solas showed
Exactly. Elven magic never really left, so much as went unnoticed and in some cases dormant. And smart money says that Flemeth sent a piece of Mythal through the mirror to give to Morrigan.
Exactly. Elven magic never really left, so much as went unnoticed and in some cases dormant. And smart money says that Flemeth sent a piece of Mythal through the mirror to give to Morrigan.
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