138885 réponses à ce sujet

[riverbanks]

I wish there were bad endings for all of the characters. If Cullen haters got their due, I need mine....

 

I don't know, I'm all for terrible consequences for risky choices, but at the same time I think the Dragon Age team tends to get carried away with gratuitous sadism when they go for bad endings. This lyrium stuff, that awful stuff on Iron Bull's romanced bad ending, that concept art of cave-dwelling hobo Anders if you spare him, the fate of drunk Alistair (before Inquisition retconned it)... it's all a little too much. Like they're thinking these endings not in terms of "wouldn't it be cool if this risky choice came back to bite you in the ass" but in terms of "let's punish the player for this choice until they regret being born into this world" and "let's give people who hate this character some really mean ending to laugh about."

 

I don't know. The bad endings for companions and NPCs in Mass Effect were at least more nuanced and less ~lol tragedy~ you know?

 

Anyway, there are only two characters I genuinely hate in this series; one of them has untouchable plot armor so it's whatever, and the other I got to exact my petty vendetta on onscreen so, personally, I'm good. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[Vanalia]

 the fate of drunk Alistair (before Inquisition retconned it)... 

 

What, they retconned it? why? in DA:I he's either a warden, either the king, right? what do they say then if in your previous games he was a drunk guy?

 

I'm glad they gave the opportunity to see Loghain again in DA:I, the haters usually don't really understand the character or at least don't realize that having an antagonist like him was much more interesting than an antagonist with no personality like Corypheus 

[Shienis]

I don't know, I'm all for terrible consequences for risky choices, but at the same time I think the Dragon Age team tends to get carried away with gratuitous sadism when they go for bad endings. This lyrium stuff, that awful stuff on Iron Bull's romanced bad ending, that concept art of cave-dwelling hobo Anders if you spare him, the fate of drunk Alistair (before Inquisition retconned it)... it's all a little too much. Like they're thinking these endings not in terms of "wouldn't it be cool if this risky choice came back to bite you in the ass" but in terms of "let's punish the player for this choice until they regret being born into this world" and "let's give people who hate this character some really mean ending to laugh about."

 

I don't think that the lyrium stuff is "punishing players for their choice", because...

Spoiler

...supporting drug (which lyrium basically is) addiction, even if role-played, means the addicted person gets either mad or dead. Everything else is sugar-coating. (*yes, looking at you, romanced on-lyrium ending*)

[Vanalia]

@Shienis: Hmm you can't have a Trespasser romance ending "on lyrium" because to continue the romance he needs to stop it at the end of DA:I ... no?

[riverbanks]

I don't think that the lyrium stuff is "punishing players for their choice", because...

Spoiler

...supporting drug (which lyrium basically is) addiction, even if role-played, means the addicted person gets either mad or dead. Everything else is sugar-coating. (*yes, looking at you, romanced on-lyrium ending*)

 

I'm not going to indulge this discussion, sorry, specially not if we're going to use terms like "sugar coating" to dismiss people's arguments. I'll just say that I fundamentally disagree with the principle of equalling roleplaying fictional actions to any sort of real world comparison, and with the notion that addiction to lyrium (a magical substance we do not understand, which canonically affects different people in ways we also do not understand) has any kind of real world equivalency to addiction to chemical drugs.

 

In any case, my use of "punishing the player for their choices" was specifically in regards to the slide Iron Bull romancers get if they get the bad endings. It was mean, petty, unnecessarily cruel to people who invested hundreds of hours into that romance only to have that kind of stuff rubbed on their faces. It was over punishing the player for a decision they could very well have good roleplaying reasons to make, and I expected better out of Weekes after he spent the whole pre-release term hyping up that character and that romance only to turn on the player to such a degree of sadism in the end. it's not about Cullen at all.

[BevH]

@Shienis: Hmm you can't have a Trespasser romance ending "on lyrium" because to continue the romance he needs to stop it at the end of DA:I ... no?

This is true, In order to continue the romance you need to tell him you'll find a way after.

[Hellion Rex]

Huh. Thanks!! Dunno if I recall seeing that.

 

spoiler:

Spoiler

So is one of those folk supposed to be Mythal? They both kinda look like Solas to me.

Nah, it's not her specifically, at least I don't think so.

[Shienis]

@Shienis: Hmm you can't have a Trespasser romance ending "on lyrium" because to continue the romance he needs to stop it at the end of DA:I ... no?

 

I honestly don't know, I can't force any inquisitor, romanced or not, to tell him to take that stuff. 

 

I'm not going to indulge this discussion, sorry, specially not if we're going to use terms like "sugar coating" to dismiss people's arguments. I'll just say that I fundamentally disagree with the principle of equalling roleplaying fictional actions to any sort of real world comparison, and with the notion that addiction to lyrium (a magical substance we do not understand, which canonically affects different people in ways we also do not understand) has any kind of real world equivalency to addiction to chemical drugs.

 

In any case, my use of "punishing the player for their choices" was specifically in regards to the slide Iron Bull romancers~~~~

 

It was said in the game, not sure if DAO, DA2 or DAI, that lyrium eventually destroys the templar's mind =====> totally comparable as addiction.

 

I'm sorry, I misunderstood your "that lyrium stuff" as comment to the actual lyrium stuff Cullen goes through. My bad. But I haven't been through any Iron Bull romance, that's why I didn't comment on that part.

[riverbanks]

@Shienis: Hmm you can't have a Trespasser romance ending "on lyrium" because to continue the romance he needs to stop it at the end of DA:I ... no?

 

Not necessarily. You can continue to romance Cullen even when he starts taking lyrium again if you use a specific dialogue option in the cutscene that follows, telling him you'll look for safer ways to quit after Corypheus is defeated. He'll only break up with you if you use a very rude dialogue choice blaming him for his own addiction. Anyway, if you use the right approach the romance will progress normally, and at the end of the game you can tell that now that the threat is over you can both start looking into those safer methods of sobering up (rather than just quitting cold turkey, as he had done so far).

 

It's a valid choice. It's obviously not for everyone, but it's in the game and it's a valid way to play your romance, if that's how you want to. I wish people would stop being so judgemental and caring so much what others do in their own game (and specially wishing bad endings onto fellow player's games, as I've seen on tumblr), but what can you do.

 

You're right, though, in that whether you choose one path or the other during your romance, at the end of the game Cullen is still quitting the lyrium, one way or another. So there is no "on-lyrium" ending for a romanced Cullen, because he did quit it at some point, either in-game or later through other safer means, as you promised to look for together. You don't need to immediately agree with him quitting cold-turkey to continue the romance during the main campaign, but as long as you end the game with him romanced, by the time Trespasser rolls by he will have quit at some point anyway.

[riverbanks]

What, they retconned it? why? in DA:I he's either a warden, either the king, right? what do they say then if in your previous games he was a drunk guy?

 

The codex entry for drunk Alistair says he eventually sobered up and rejoined the Wardens:

 

Rumored to be King Maric of Ferelden's bastard son, there was a moment during the recent fifth blight where Alistair could have ascended to the throne. Instead, the throne was given to Queen Anora, daughter of the taritorous Teyrn Loghain-the very man responsible for the death of almost every Grey Warden in Ferelden at the infamous Battle of Ostagar. Disgusted, Alistair abandoned the Grey Wardens, and for years lived in disgraced exile in the Free Marches. Several years ago, Alistair was retrieved from his exile, sobered up, and eventually re-admitted to the order...though he chose to do so in Orlais rather than his homeland.

 

It does follow up from the scene you get with drunk Alistair in DA2, though, with Teagan rescuing him from the tavern and taking him home.

[Shienis]

Cullen unromanced, back on lyrium:

Spoiler

Things to note about this ending:

• this can only happen if Cullen was not romanced. If he's romanced, even if he goes back on lyrium he will still get the same good ending slides as above. Stop harrassing people who made this choice during their romances, please. They got the same happy ending as everyone else.

 

You're right, though, in that whether you choose one path or the other during your romance, at the end of the game Cullen is still quitting the lyrium, one way or another. So there is no "on-lyrium" ending for a romanced Cullen, because he did quit it at some point, either in-game or later through other safer means, as you promised to look for together. You don't need to immediately agree with him quitting cold-turkey to continue the romance during the main campaign, but as long as you end the game with him romanced, by the time Trespasser rolls but he will have quit at some point anyway.

 

...and that's what I get for believing others about game endings... *sigh*

[Vanalia]

 

You're right, though, in that whether you choose one path or the other during your romance, at the end of the game Cullen is still quitting the lyrium, one way or another. So there is no "on-lyrium" ending for a romanced Cullen, because he did quit it at some point, either in-game or later through other safer means, as you promised to look for together. You don't need to immediately agree with him quitting cold-turkey to continue the romance during the main campaign, but as long as you end the game with him romanced, by the time Trespasser rolls but he will have quit at some point anyway.

Ah, yes, that's what I thought. Poor Cullen would not end up like this if the IQ was looking after him and his addiction.

 

 

I guess that Bioware offers a "bad ending" for people who hate some characters, no? a lot of people hate Cullen so they give the option of a very bad ending. A lot of people were tired of Alistair so they offered the option of "drunk Alistair". And so many people wanted Loghain dead so they offered the choice of cutting his head off in front of his own daughter. The more I think of it, the more I find this really rude, you can even see the blood on her face and dress...

 

So maybe they were trying to please haters after all. 

[riverbanks]

...and that's what I get for believing others about game endings... *sigh*

 

Ah, I see. Yeah, tumblr is full of people spreading this rumor that Cullen gets the bad ending even if romanced just to be petty about other people's choices and tell everyone else how to play their own games... as usual.

 

But no, he still

Spoiler

gets the wife, the dog and the white picket fence in the end.

[Vanalia]

The codex entry for drunk Alistair says he eventually sobered up and rejoined the Wardens:

 

Rumored to be King Maric of Ferelden's bastard son, there was a moment during the recent fifth blight where Alistair could have ascended to the throne. Instead, the throne was given to Queen Anora, daughter of the taritorous Teyrn Loghain-the very man responsible for the death of almost every Grey Warden in Ferelden at the infamous Battle of Ostagar. Disgusted, Alistair abandoned the Grey Wardens, and for years lived in disgraced exile in the Free Marches. Several years ago, Alistair was retrieved from his exile, sobered up, and eventually re-admitted to the order...though he chose to do so in Orlais rather than his homeland.

 

It does follow up from the scene you get with drunk Alistair in DA2, though, with Teagan rescuing him from the tavern and taking him home.

 

 

You mean there can be Warden Loghain AND warden Alistair? and that's why Alistair went to Orlais, because he didn't want to see Loghain? in that case, I wonder which one we see as a Warden in DA:I. Gosh, I have to be careful with that, I must harden Alistair to be sure he's king and doesn't show up as my warden in DA:I instead of Loggy.

[riverbanks]

You mean there can be Warden Loghain AND warden Alistair? and that's why Alistair went to Orlais, because he didn't want to see Loghain? in that case, I wonder which one we see as a Warden in DA:I. Gosh, I have to be careful with that, I must harden Alistair to be sure he's king and doesn't show up as my warden in DA:I instead of Loggy.

 

Well, no, you get either Warden Alistair or Warden Loghain in your game. Redeemed drunk Alistair never shows up in-game, the only way to get him to become a drunk is to recruit Loghain + not marry Alistair to Anora, so in that scenario you would still see Loghain during Inquisition.

 

Loghain was posted in Orlais too, so I don't think Alistair chose it to stay away from him. He probably just wanted to be away from Ferelden because everything about it would remind him of his regrets - people would talk about Queen Anora, King Maric, the great Redcliffe arling, the great big Hero of Ferelden etc around him, and it would probably feel terrible. He might've been posted in the Free Marches too, but with all those Fereldan refugees from the Blight it wouldn't be so different. At least in Orlas everyone hates Ferelden, so he wouldn't be around a lot of nostalgia for the homeland; and if he could get himself posted far enough away from Loghain, he could forget about the whole thing and just mind his Warden business in peace and quiet until either the darkspawn or the Calling took him.

[Vanalia]

Well the funny thing is that he could have to work with Loghain as a Grey warden, because Loghain worked for some time in Orlais too (and he hates that). That could make interesting fanfictions 
 
Back to Cullen: I understand better why some people told me (before I finished Trespasser)

Spoiler

"haha, you will have to have your handkerchief ready, poor Cullen fans"... they were talking about the bad ending I guess.

[Shienis]

Ah, I see. Yeah, tumblr is full of people spreading this rumor that Cullen gets the bad ending even if romanced just to be petty about other people's choices and tell everyone else how to play their own games... as usual.

 

I might have overreacted and expressed my thoughts incompletely. I'm not trying to tell people how should they play their games. Especially single-player. That would be pointless. But I see the on-lyrium Cullen outcome as purely logical "cause -> consequence", not as a "way to punish players". I mean, if the players make certain choices, it should have different consequences than if they make different choices, right? Using this as an example, I would be very disappointed if the lyrium choice was completely ignored and Cullen ended all sunshine-and-butterflies no matter what you do.

 

For me, this quest is extremely personal and cuts very deep. I believed I cried when I saw it for the first time.

[Vanalia]

 

 

For me, this quest is extremely personal and cuts very deep. I believed I cried when I saw it for the first time.

It was your ending? o_o yes I can imagine the shock.

[Shienis]

It was your ending? o_o yes I can imagine the shock.

 

No, I had the happy romancing one. I meant the Perseverance(sp?) quest. Just going through that is... too much for me.

[Demoiselle]

Any preference for class/race? The two Cullenmancers I could share are a rogue and a warrior, both human. A little trip to the Black Emporium could make them look like your original Inky, but race and class can't be changed if you have a specific need. :3

I don't mind, already played through Trespasser as an Elf so human would be great

[riverbanks]

I don't mind, already played through Trespasser as an Elf so human would be great

 

Alright, here you go: https://www.dropbox....1E87E3.DAS?dl=0

 

Lv 23 human archer, Cullen romanced, no DLCs played, ready to start Trespasser after a quick stop by the Black Emporium if you want to rebuild your Inky's face. Save is on patch 10, so you should have that.

 

(I re-saved inside the Undercroft so you can quickly mess around with armors/weapons if you want to, and synchronized schematics through the nug so you'll get everything I've found through multiple characters. I think it should be no issue that I had the DLCs installed, whatever DLC schematics would come through the nug should just disappear, but let me know if you can't open the save or something and I'll get the original vanilla file back from January, before I had any DLCs even installed in the game.)

 

Enjoy your noodle prince romance content!

[Scuttlebutt101]

Greetings, Cullen fans, I come with peace etc. I was wondering something and I can't get a clear answer anywhere else, so I thought maybe you guys may know something.

Not necessarily. You can continue to romance Cullen even when he starts taking lyrium again if you use a specific dialogue option in the cutscene that follows, telling him you'll look for safer ways to quit after Corypheus is defeated.

 

...

 

You're right, though, in that whether you choose one path or the other during your romance, at the end of the game Cullen is still quitting the lyrium, one way or another. So there is no "on-lyrium" ending for a romanced Cullen, because he did quit it at some point, either in-game or later through other safer means, as you promised to look for together. You don't need to immediately agree with him quitting cold-turkey to continue the romance during the main campaign, but as long as you end the game with him romanced, by the time Trespasser rolls by he will have quit at some point anyway.

Does he still quit if he's not romanced? I'm pretty sure I told him to keep taking it until Corypheus is dealt with and got the "good" ending with the Templar rehab center and whatnot, but I've been hearing things about some of his epilogue slides being bugged or something, so I wanted to make sure. I wish we could actually talk to him about the whole lyrium thing in Trespasser.

[riverbanks]

Greetings, Cullen fans, I come with peace etc. I was wondering something and I can't get a clear answer anywhere else, so I thought maybe you guys may know something.

Does he still quit if he's not romanced? I'm pretty sure I told him to keep taking it until Corypheus is dealt with and got the "good" ending with the Templar rehab center and whatnot, but I've been hearing things about some of his epilogue slides being bugged or something, so I wanted to make sure. I wish we could actually talk to him about the whole lyrium thing in Trespasser.

 

Depends. The dialogue option to tell him you'll look for safer ways to quit after Corypheus etc is available both to romancing and non-romancing Inquisitors. You chose that one, right, so for all purposes you agreed that Cullen should quit the lyrium, just not right at that moment. So it's implied that at the end of your story your Inquisitor helped him find a safer way, and he did quit eventually; thus, you got the good ending.

 

The only way to get the bad ending slide is if you put him back on lyrium and use the dialogue option to blame him for his addiction, the one that says "you chose this life" or something - this sort of emotionally cuts Cullen off from the Inquisitor (either a lover or a friend), and once he loses the purpose of the Inquisition in the end, he succumbs to the addiction. But yeah, it's totally possible to get him back on it and still get a happy ending if you approach it the right way, whether you're romancing him or not.

 

And yes, a little dialogue branch to ask him how he's doing these days wrt the lyrium would've been nice. As far (or as little) as we know about lyrium addiction, some of the milder symptoms never really go away, so he probably still deals with them even now.

[fontofnothing]

I was messing around with flycam again, and managed to grab some amusing shots. So, here's Flycam Shenanigans: Trespasser Edition. (These all take place during the opening scene, so light spoilers? Maybe? Subtitles were on.)

 

Spoiler

 

 

 

[Scuttlebutt101]

Thanks, riverbanks! I thought as much, but wasn't sure how would the game read the "quit later" choice, especially with all the buggy choice imports (Gaspard on the throne, for instance).