138821 réponses à ce sujet

[berelinde]

>.< This whole conversation reminds me of why I wasn't all that sad when he announced he was leaving the franchise. As great a writer as he is, especially at dialogue (and he IS great), and as progressive as he is, he's still old-fashioned in many ways...

No matter now much we strive against inequality, no matter how thoroughly we educate ourselves, no matter how diligently we police our thoughts and (attempt to) purge our speech of bias, we remain the products of our upbringing. Our past is part of our language, our culture, even the words we use every day. Dragon Age is one of the most progressive games going, but purging it of every bit of sexist language or ideology would be impossible. It's built into our culture.

 

Look at the gender bias of everyday words. A man who behaves unethically toward others is described as a b******, a word that deprives him of his legitimacy within society. A woman who behaves unethically toward others is described as a b****, a word that deprives her of her very humanity. A person born outside legal matrimony is still a person, but a female dog is not. Gender expectations are baked into the language we use, and we don't even give it a second thought.

 

The good news is that this situation improves with every generation. DG (and R2, and BevH, and me, and maybe you, and a whole bunch of other people here) remember when women were barred from certain professions, by custom if not by law. That's been changing steadily over the years, but overcoming that expectation is still something that requires a decision on our part; it isn't automatic. I can't speak for anyone else, obviously, but I know that I'm guilty of occasional lapses, even though I despise gender bias. My niece and nephew and other members of their generation would have been exposed to their parents' bias tangentially, but they were born into a world where change was a bit further along. They won't have personal memories of a time when "gendered professions" were a(s much of a) thing. They'll teach that expectation of equality to their children. As long as we keep at it.

 

Anyway, that got rambly. I'll shut up now.

[R2s Muse]

No matter now much we strive against inequality, no matter how thoroughly we educate ourselves, no matter how diligently we police our thoughts and (attempt to) purge our speech of bias, we remain the products of our upbringing. Our past is part of our language, our culture, even the words we use every day. Dragon Age is one of the most progressive games going, but purging it of every bit of sexist language or ideology would be impossible. It's built into our culture.

<respectful snip>

Yeah, I also think it's just a case of unconscious bias, or rather unexamined bias, that we all have internalized and comes out when we least expect it. Any world building will be subject to your own cultural mores sneaking in when you least suspect it. Historically, these DnD, sword and sorcerer-type fantasy worlds have a healthy dose of everyday sexism, so the fact that DA has so little is still an accomplishment. I just find it curious that the creators' rhetoric around it wouldn't embrace their attempt. 

[Ariella]

In a desperate attempt to draw back from political stuff that I'm so not ready to deal with until next summer....
 

This is the sort of friendly wrestling with interpretations I love, so I'm glad you're enjoying it too.

Oh, definitely, especially since fall is setting in. SADD sucks. Pushing my brain helps a lot.
 

Yes, it's unclear how they get accepted; Alistair mentions both noble and commoner children, but he was the only one who wasn't quite either, so if the nobles send their illegitimate children to the Chantry, they're ones who were raised solely by their commoner parent. I'm a little fuzzy on it, but I got the impression maybe Cullen's barrier was his parents' consent?
 
Good point on the author of that codex!

I have to admit I got the a lot noble 3rd or 4th child and bastard children as much from my discussions with my husband about Chantry vis a vi RCC. To quote: "It (The Church) was a great way for a father with a son he couldn't acknowledge to still do right by"
 

True, which to me makes it weirder to me that they defaulted to that. I'm not aware of any Protestant denominations that require celibacy, and it isn't common in the other religions I'm familiar with (I could be missing something obvious, of course.)

Judaism doesn't either. We've got a lot of funky rituals for the priest caste. If you belong to the kohanim there are a lot of restrictions on who you can marry and such but that's a small segment. Run into any Jewish person named Kohen or some variation there of, and they're most likely of the caste.

That being said rabbis aren't restricted in any type of way. I think that may be the same for Islam but I can't remember.
 
But yes, the implication seems to be Cullen's parents, though I get the sense it's more of worry for their son than any need for him at home. Though I may be reading into it. I just wish we knew more about them. I'd seen somewhere they died during the Blight but haven't been able to confirm.

Maybe I'll ask for WoT 1&2 for my birthday.
 

I haven't gotten that far in the ME series, too funny!

My husband's favorite line of the series.

 

I think that minimal level of organization for the Templars makes sense, actually. Most of the time, they're in relatively small detachments, the size of a company or half company, no more than 40 or 50 in any one place, I think? So 4 to 5 officers at most (they don't seem to have an equivalent to the enlisted or NCOs.) They probably had more in Val Royeaux of course with the organizational command and administrative core above the local commanders was, and the Gallows might have had more, but the situation was a bit different there with both a very large Circle plus the Cathedral in Kirkwall? The organizational structure of medieval armies was not usually as carefully defined as modern ones. Smaller armies, less specialization, more frequently made up of semi-independent forces working together (think all the  nobles' forces at Ostagar with the regular Fereldan army.)

True. I think Kirkwall was as big as it was because each of the Free March states had their own Circle, even somewhere as small, relatively, as Ostwick so. I'm attributing this potentially to the fierce independent Marcher streak. They want their "own" Templars rather than have it be in a centralized place thus prestige to one city or another.

A lot of time I think the Templars would be working in even smaller size, what we'd call a squad or a fire team since marching through the woods looking for apostates et al with 50 men sounds both like overkill and a logistics nightmare. But I may be wrong.

You do make a good point about the organization. It makes me wonder if Tevinter in being a kind of Romanesque society has a military based around those lines.
 

The Seekers fit in rather oddly in all of it, and we're not given a lot of info either, other than the fact they are corrupted and essentially have been for quite a while. Of course, we're left at the end of everything with the implication that Cass is rebuilding the Seekers (and surviving Templars?) into something new, hopefully something that's more inclusive like they were originally and in a way that will be harder to erase the inclusion on non-humans and mages. And Cullen offers Templars an exit they didn't have before from lyrium addiction. Those two things together suggest some interesting possibilities for the future...

Agreed. If you take those choices of course, which I do. I just got the Viv as Divine ending (thus starting over because I am not having her as Divine, I don't care) and a lot of the Templars who follow Cullen enter into Cassandra's new Order, though I wonder if they still use the Vigil.

I think Cass is going to be death on anyone who tries to close ranks in the new Seekers. As long as there's a good deal of transparency, I think it'll be fine. I feel the same about the Inquisition. As long as they keep their purpose and charter obvious and inclusive, less chance of corruption setting in easily. The spy thing, well, thanks for telling us you're a threat, dear, because now we know which way to look.

I also find myself in weird position of wondering what would happen if Fenris would undergo the Vigil because I'm curious how the lyrium tattoos might play in. But that's the fic writer in me talking. In fact, I find myself wondering how he'd get long with the DAI cast in general (Dorian, Solas and Bull are huge examples).

Dunno if this has been posted, but since I played Trespasser once before...half asleep. I decided to run it again - being more awake.
 
Was reading Sera's journal and saw this:
 
 

 
 
I just hope no one recently polished whichever desk they choose to use. Otherwise my Quizzy will slide all the way to the Dales.

Yet again, I find myself reminded not to read and drink at the same time. That's cute. Who was the new Jenny? Or is that just stuff? I had this image of Dagna joining...

Modifié par Ariella, 28 octobre 2015 - 01:42 .

[CuriousArtemis]

EXCUSE YOU, berelinde, I'm only 35

[Ariella]

The good news is that this situation improves with every generation. DG (and R2, and BevH, and me, and maybe you, and a whole bunch of other people here) remember when women were barred from certain professions, by custom if not by law. That's been changing steadily over the years, but overcoming that expectation is still something that requires a decision on our part; it isn't automatic. I can't speak for anyone else, obviously, but I know that I'm guilty of occasional lapses, even though I despise gender bias. My niece and nephew and other members of their generation would have been exposed to their parents' bias tangentially, but they were born into a world where change was a bit further along. They won't have personal memories of a time when "gendered professions" were a(s much of a) thing. They'll teach that expectation of equality to their children. As long as we keep at it.
 
Anyway, that got rambly. I'll shut up now.

I wanted to be a fighter pilot. Not only did I get told no, but Hell no when I was in high school. And I remember the girls doing "better" in home economics where the guys did "better" in consumer arts.

Then of course there's my daughter who upon finding out about slavery and the idea that her cousin would be considered less because she's African American said: that's stupid. She said much the same when we explained gender bias and homophobia. So either the culture is changing or me and mine are doing something right. Or maybe both.

[Tishina]

EXCUSE YOU, berelinde, I'm only 35

Yeah, I'm one of the old farts over 50, you're a youngun...

 

 
But yes, the implication seems to be Cullen's parents, though I get the sense it's more of worry for their son than any need for him at home. Though I may be reading into it. I just wish we knew more about them. I'd seen somewhere they died during the Blight but haven't been able to confirm.
 

I think they actually say they died in WoT2, but I don't have a copy myself yet.

 

 

I think Cass is going to be death on anyone who tries to close ranks in the new Seekers. As long as there's a good deal of transparency, I think it'll be fine. I feel the same about the Inquisition. As long as they keep their purpose and charter obvious and inclusive, less chance of corruption setting in easily. The spy thing, well, thanks for telling us you're a threat, dear, because now we know which way to look.

I certainly hope so. I like and admire Cass in-game a lot, even if she does have a few issues. Spies are going to happen no matter what, and Solas knows how Leliana and probably Charter and Harding think, so I'm not convinced a completely underground organization is going to be that much safer.

 

I wanted to be a fighter pilot. Not only did I get told no, but Hell no when I was in high school. And I remember the girls doing "better" in home economics where the guys did "better" in consumer arts.

Then of course there's my daughter who upon finding out about slavery and the idea that her cousin would be considered less because she's African American said: that's stupid. She said much the same when we explained gender bias and homophobia. So either the culture is changing or me and mine are doing something right. Or maybe both.

Yeah, we won't go into what I heard growing up in the rural deep South. Though I did protest the attempt to force me into taking home ec and they quietly excused me from that requirement (even then, they were probably on shaky legal ground making it a gendered requirement. Or they realized I'd probably burn the kitchen down by accident...)

 

I hope it's both. I remember my oldest being quite outraged when she first realized that some people felt they had the right to try to discriminate against or harass her adopted aunts and uncles. Still living in the South, but I do see some signs of change, some for the good, some for the worse, sadly.

[Ariella]

Yeah, I'm one of the old farts over 50, you're a youngun...

My birthday's this week so I'm in between... not going to say how far, but in between.
 
 

I think they actually say they died in WoT2, but I don't have a copy myself yet.

Halo 5 or WoT... Nathan Fillion or more Cullen... Argh! Maybe I'll just split the difference and ask for AoS season 2 and Avengers. Too damn hard to choose.
 
 

I certainly hope so. I like and admire Cass in-game a lot, even if she does have a few issues. Spies are going to happen no matter what, and Solas knows how Leliana and probably Charter and Harding think, so I'm not convinced a completely underground organization is going to be that much safer.

Agreed. But characters without issues are so boring . As for Solas and spies, they do need to bring someone new in, or someone from the ranks who's unexpected. I agree, working completely underground might be a problem. I still haven't gotten to Trespasser (Viv will NEVER be Divine), but I imagine my Inquisition being something like the Rangers from Babylon 5. After the Great War they faded into the background and became an intelligence arm waiting for the day that the Shadows would return. I see the Inquisition being similar with a "stop Solas, stop the Elven 'gods' if they get out." And I'm expecting Solas' plan to go awry again and then have to clean up after him.

Yeah, we won't go into what I heard growing up in the rural deep South. Though I did protest the attempt to force me into taking home ec and they quietly excused me from that requirement (even then, they were probably on shaky legal ground making it a gendered requirement. Or they realized I'd probably burn the kitchen down by accident...)
 
I hope it's both. I remember my oldest being quite outraged when she first realized that some people felt they had the right to try to discriminate against or harass her adopted aunts and uncles. Still living in the South, but I do see some signs of change, some for the good, some for the worse, sadly.

I live basically on the line between suburban and rural right now, after growing up in a prominently Jewish suburb and going to college in rural southern Illinois.

It's easy for me to "pass" as long as I don't say anything or wear anything that indicates I'm Jewish. Of course, I don't try, neither does my eldest, and at the bus one day she got told she was going to Hell because she was a Jew. Also got told she'd never succeed because she was Jewish by someone else. At the same time, many of the teachers in the district are now Jewish so they get the High Holidays off, and guess who people turn to to ask about that kind of thing . Nothing's ever going to be perfect, but that's no reason not to try. Or I tell myself that, anyway.

Modifié par Ariella, 28 octobre 2015 - 02:53 .

[Cantina]

In World of Thedas Cullen's parents are indeed dead.

[Ariella]

In World of Thedas Cullen's parents are indeed dead.

I figured, especially since I suspect there would have be some kind of drop in from Mia in the Codex letter if they weren't. Mother was frantic or some such.

I just saw somewhere they died during the Blight and have no idea if that timeline is true.

Also I wonder where in South Reach they moved. It just strikes me as odd the Rutherford clan moved from an Arling that was least ravaged by the Blight to the Arling that has some of the most Blight ravaged real estate: Lothering.

[R2s Muse]

:snicker: Bioware store just came out with new Cullen merchandise which has almost nothing to do with him specifically. The purple pattern is from the generic DA:O templar skirts, and the sword of mercy is from DA2. And, Cullen being a templar is from... not the third game either. LOL (sleuthing courtesy of @galagraphia and @princesstabbity)

 

http://www.biowarest...plum-hoody.html

[berelinde]

Good find, R2, but I don't think I can justify the spend. 

 

Maybe next year.

[Ariella]

Not worth sixty bucks. Not in a million. Are they offering the nugs yet? My girls could care less about Cullen, but they really want plushy nugs.

[R2s Muse]

Aw, this is cute. The devs did a sort of DA:I post-mortem thank you video.

 

Through the Eluvian: Tales from Inquisition Developers

 

[Cantina]

I figured, especially since I suspect there would have be some kind of drop in from Mia in the Codex letter if they weren't. Mother was frantic or some such.

I just saw somewhere they died during the Blight and have no idea if that timeline is true.

Also I wonder where in South Reach they moved. It just strikes me as odd the Rutherford clan moved from an Arling that was least ravaged by the Blight to the Arling that has some of the most Blight ravaged real estate: Lothering.

 

It does not state Cullen's parents died because of the Blight. Only that his parents died during the Blight. It is however more then likely they did even though it is not worded as such.

 

Taken from the book....

 

During the Blight, Cullen's siblings were forced to flee their home in Honnleath following the death of their parents. Finally settling in South Reach they attempted to contact their brother.

 

During the DLC to acquire Shale, the Warden and party arrive in Honnleath to see it overrun with darkspawn. More then likely these are the same darkspawn that drove the Rutherford family from their home.

 

Its possible the family choose South Reach because they have family there. Its also possible that there is a large Templar Garrison to which Mia could use to track down her brother.

[R2s Muse]

It does not state Cullen's parents died because of the Blight. Only that his parents died during the Blight. It is however more then likely they did even though it is not worded as such.
 
Taken from the book....
 
During the Blight, Cullen's siblings were forced to flee their home in Honnleath following the death of their parents. Finally settling in South Reach they attempted to contact their brother.
 
During the DLC to acquire Shale, the Warden and party arrive in Honnleath to see it overrun with darkspawn. More then likely these are the same darkspawn that drove the Rutherford family from their home.
 
Its possible the family choose South Reach because they have family there. Its also possible that there is a large Templar Garrison to which Mia could use to track down her brother.

Yeah, it's hard to say exactly how far the Blight spread, but South Reach isn't actually that close to Lothering. It's closer to the Brecilian forest, for example, which didn't seem too bad in game. 
 
http://dragonage.wik...le:Ferelden.png

[Caja]

:snicker: Bioware store just came out with new Cullen merchandise which has almost nothing to do with him specifically. The purple pattern is from the generic DA:O templar skirts, and the sword of mercy is from DA2. And, Cullen being a templar is from... not the third game either. LOL (sleuthing courtesy of @galagraphia and @princesstabbity)

 

http://www.biowarest...plum-hoody.html

 

Ah, it looks really nice but 60 $ is a bit too much for my taste.

 

 

@ Cantina: Thanks, I was wondering if his parents died during the Blight.

 

Its possible the family choose South Reach because they have family there Its also possible that there is a large Templar Garrison to which Mia could use to track down her brother.

 

I'm not entirely sure about the timeline: When Honnleath was overrun by Darkspawn, wasn't Cullen still stationed at Kinloch Hold? Wouldn't his siblings know he was there? After all, it wasn't far away from the Circle Tower.

[SentinelMacDeath]

That's a really cute hoodie

 

That Dorian hoodie though ... I kinda want it! http://www.biowarest...neck-hoody.html

Thanks to that Futurama/Cullen vid I can't watch Futurama anymore without thinking of Cullen... great.

[CuriousArtemis]

Aw, this is cute. The devs did a sort of DA:I post-mortem thank you video.

 

Through the Eluvian: Tales from Inquisition Developers

 

 

Is it five minutes of them standing in front of the camera and saying "We're so sorry, Artemis"?

[Ariella]

Yeah, it's hard to say exactly how far the Blight spread, but South Reach isn't actually that close to Lothering. It's closer to the Brecilian forest, for example, which didn't seem too bad in game.  http://dragonage.wik...le:Ferelden.png

South Reach the town or South Reach the Arling? Because Lothering is or was part of the Arling according to the Codex. Depending on the boundries of the Arling, it may have taken a large hit.

And the map that came with dai has South Reach the town half way between Lothering and Dragon's Peak.

How I wish this damned thing came with a scale. Grumble.

I'm not entirely sure about the timeline: When Honnleath was overrun by Darkspawn, wasn't Cullen still stationed at Kinloch Hold? Wouldn't his siblings know he was there? After all, it wasn't far away from the Circle Tower.

It was after the Blight, when he forgot to mention he'd been transferred to Kirkwall, that Mia got a tiny bit upset with her brother. It probably took longer than usual to get messages back and forth during the Blight. Thus Cullen's clean get away, and the two year hiding in Kirkwall.

@Cantina

As soon as they mentioned his home village I was sitting there going 'did I pass them on the road?' It's also possible they were in Wilhem's cellar with some of the other villagers.

Now when I look at the map, unless they went up and around the lake, they would have had to have gone through the Hinterlands and then the Southron Hills.

This makes my head hurt.

[Cantina]

One thing that bothers me with this game is: when your character can ask Cullen about the welfare of his family. Thus he responds with:

 

"South Reach has experienced the same chaos as every where else. My family is fine. Pray they remain so."

 

Considering this I am surprised the Inquisitor could not travel to the location, close rifts, possibly aide Mia etc.

 

I get it the Inquisitor cannot go every where and that other places are a priority. But you would think Cullen would ask the Inquisitor to go to South Reach and see what is happening and to check up on his family.

 

 

 

 

******Edit******

 

 

Cullen for the top

 

 

[Caja]

What I meant was that if Cullen's siblings left Honnleath during the blight, why didn't they try to contact Cullen at Kinloch Hold? They must have known he was there. The Tower isn't far away from the village and one might think they've exchanged letters or something like that before the Blight hit Ferelden.  

[R2s Muse]

South Reach the town or South Reach the Arling? Because Lothering is or was part of the Arling according to the Codex. Depending on the boundries of the Arling, it may have taken a large hit.
And the map that came with dai has South Reach the town half way between Lothering and Dragon's Peak.
How I wish this damned thing came with a scale. Grumble.

I would presume the town, since otherwise that's not a very precise thing for Cullen to say. South Reach has been in about the same place since the first Fereldan maps from The Stolen Throne. It's down the West Road from Lothering, about 117 miles according to the RPG map scale, or about 5 days walking.

http://valerie1972.t...retty-quick-and

[Hellion Rex]

Thing is... DG has confirmed that no one knew the source of the broodmothers prior to DA:O. So that wouldn't be a factor in anyone's recruitment into the wardens.

Wait what? Sorry to bring this up again, but I'm pretty sure Wardens knew about how broodmothers were created prior to the Fifth Blight and the game DAO.

[Ariella]

I would presume the town, since otherwise that's not a very precise thing for Cullen to say. South Reach has been in about the same place since the first Fereldan maps from The Stolen Throne. It's down the West Road from Lothering, about 117 miles according to the RPG map scale, or about 5 days walking. http://valerie1972.t...retty-quick-and

They mutated the map it seems. The hills area is larger, the forest is a heck of a lot smaller. The area of ocean labled Amaranthine is named the Frozen Seas...

Of course the thing was designed to replicate the map in the war room. If it didn't have the Bioware and EA logos, I'd be yelling at Prima. Grumble.

On the reference, maybe yes, maybe no. Most of the time I tell people I'm from Chicago, because they're more likely to know that than some podunk suburb.

Might be similar with the Arling. But again, I might be full of it.

[riverbanks]

South Reach the town or South Reach the Arling? Because Lothering is or was part of the Arling according to the Codex. Depending on the boundries of the Arling, it may have taken a large hit.

 

Arl Bryland abandoned South Reach with his troops soon after Ostagar, by account of the Templars in Lothering. By the time you reach Denerim you can see him at the Gnawed Noble chatting with Alfstanna, and he claims the entire South Reach arling has been overrun by Darkspawn at that point. So regardless of whether the Noodles went through Lothering or directly to South Reach the city or anywhere else in the arling, they probably took a long time to actually get there, possible staying in refugee camps until after the Archdemon was killed and the horde scattered. The alternative would be walking right through the darkspawn horde to get to a South Reach overrun by them, which is... improbable - even the Hawkes took the long way around to Gwaren for a ship, because crossing northwards through South Reach would send them right into the horde.

 

I'm not entirely sure about the timeline: When Honnleath was overrun by Darkspawn, wasn't Cullen still stationed at Kinloch Hold? Wouldn't his siblings know he was there? After all, it wasn't far away from the Circle Tower.

 

Considering that the Circle went up in revolt as soon as Uldred came back from Ostagar so Broken Circle has to be placed pretty early in the timeline (as early as the first time you reach Lothering, you can hear the gossips outside the tavern talking about it), and that geographically it's not likely that Honnleath would be destroyed immediately after Ostagar (since the horde came up from the wilds through the Imperial Road leading to Lothering first), timeline-wise the Noodles probably left Honnleath some time after Broken Circle happened.

 

They did know Cullen was in that Circle, and Mia did try to contact him, but by Cullen's own admission, after the trauma he suffered during the revolts he deliberately ignored Mia's letters and left them with no word for years. At that point, with the Circle in such a state, communication from outside would be difficult, visits would be out of the question... so the siblings did know where Cullen was supposed to be, but not whether he was actually still there. Cullen might have learned of his parents' death soon enough through Mia's letters, but according to her first letter in DAI, she didn't know whether he was even still alive until she tracked him down in Kirkwall years later.